Ireland V Germany(A) 11th October & Kazakhstan(H) 15th October 2013 - World Cup '14 Q

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely, more a question for the Eligibility thread...

[paul_oshea]

How have they got that guy? What is the connection I am intrigued!

Keanes comments this morning p1ssed me off. Look at Denmark/Switzerland/Sweden. More often than not they qualify.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why, what did he say now?
All those countries are lot more organised that we often are.

[Stuttgart88]

Keanes comments this morning p1ssed me off. Look at Denmark/Switzerland/Sweden. More often than not they qualify.The old "lower expectations" and "we haven't got the players" arguments are strawmen. We absolutely do have the players to at least compete for second spot and to not make the football look like a hot potato.

If the players themselves believe they're not good enough to compete for second spot in a qualifying group then they should question how much they're earning.

[DannyInvincible]

How have they got that guy? What is the connection I am intrigued!

He's not actually Irish, in spite of the name. He was born in Almaty.


Keanes comments this morning p1ssed me off. Look at Denmark/Switzerland/Sweden. More often than not they qualify.

These comments, I'm guessing?: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2013/1015/480425-keane-calls-for-lower-expectations/


The 33-year-old said: "People in England talk about the FA trying to change the structure and trying to play a lot more English players, and they are slowly suffering from that.

"We are going to be at the bottom of that, we are going to suffer as well from that, so if that does change, then it's only going to benefit us as well.

"We need more players to be coming through playing at a higher level. At the moment, that's not the case. Obviously, there are a few, there's no question about that.

"The expectation level has always been high in Ireland, that's just the country that we are, that's the way we have always been.

"There's no harm in having expectations, but sometimes you have to look at the reality as well, and the reality is at the moment we are just not right there."

He's become a public apologist for disappointing team displays of late.

[Stuttgart88]

Another case of the headline not really reflecting the story though, no? "We are just not right there" is probably fair enough, but many would have you believe we expect to be qualifying by right. We don't.

Right from the draw for this group it was obvious we were up against a superpower and a regular qualifier so we'd have our work cut out. Second place would have been a very very good achievement.

But even in that context the group was an unmitigated disaster. It's not unrealistic to expect better with the players we have.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, be more inclined to agree with Robbie...don't think we do have the players currently, to be amongst say the top 10-15 European teams that will qualify for Brazil.
Could have made a better fist of some performances and results but ultimately we're not good enough and suspect this will be the case for the next two World Cups. The Euros are another matter, but ultimately a lot less interesting, especially if 2020 goes in the direction it suggests.

[BonnieShels]

Just noticing Kazakhstan have a defender by the name of Mark Gorman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Gorman) in their squad.

Call him up, Noel!

Given that his name is Gorman I would have initially guessed there were Jewish origins there as the Irish diaspora in Kazakhstan isn't one of our more famous invasions.

There’s a good few Gormans in Israel. Nothing to do with our lads. I learnt this after watching the Dave Gorman Collection on BBC 2 about ten years ago.

http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/GORMAN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorman_(surname)

[shakermaker1982]

McGeady yesterday and now Keane waving the white flag.

Christ no wonder we don't have players turning out for Man Utd, Arsenal etc nowadays if that is the prevalent attitude within the squad. I liked Strachan's comment on the BBC website about how his players need to start working harder and stop feeling sorry for themselves about how difficult it is with the number of foreign imports in the game.

[Stuttgart88]

McGeady probably thinks fans expecting him to actually find a teammate from time to time is unrealistic.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Christ no wonder we don't have players turning out for Man Utd, Arsenal etc nowadays if that is the prevalent attitude within the squad. I liked Strachan's comment on the BBC website about how his players need to start working harder and stop feeling sorry for themselves about how difficult it is with the number of foreign imports in the game.

Good point about WGS but seriously, besides the odd possible squad player, none of the Irish first XI are good enough, for say the top 6 EPL clubs.
With the rider, hopefully Everton will come 7th with Gibson/McCarthy as regulars for club & country.

[ifk101]

We were the third seeds in the group. Hardly unreasonable to expect us to be competitive in a group of 6 teams and to pick up more than 2 points out of 12 against the second seeds (Sweden) and the fourth seeds (Austria).

[paul_oshea]

The old "lower expectations" and "we haven't got the players" arguments are strawmen. We absolutely do have the players to at least compete for second spot and to not make the football look like a hot potato.

If the players themselves believe they're not good enough to compete for second spot in a qualifying group then they should question how much they're earning.

You would expect journalists to point this out. Who else gets close enough to raise these points.

[paul_oshea]

Given that his name is Gorman I would have initially guessed there were Jewish origins there as the Irish diaspora in Kazakhstan isn't one of our more famous invasions.

There’s a good few Gormans in Israel. Nothing to do with our lads. I learnt this after watching the Dave Gorman Collection on BBC 2 about ten years ago.

http://www.hebrewsurnames.com/GORMAN


But do you know why this is? Jews just adopt common names depending on where they live. It's as simple as looking at registry. Strange its in Israel itself, my guess would be these people moved back to "the motherland"

[DannyInvincible]

You would expect journalists to point this out. Who else gets close enough to raise these points.

There may be a sound-proof bubble around FAI headquarters. I found it very disconcerting that neither the FAI nor King were aware of the seeding situation for Euro 2016 and the implications that other results tonight, as well as our own, might have on our future seeding status. In fact, the FAI provided King with complete misinformation - he was inexplicably informed that tonight's fixtures would have no bearing on our future seeding - and I understand it was the media who pointed this out as incorrect during an interview/press conference with King the other day. How on earth did the FAI arrive at such a misunderstanding? Incompetence would be to not bother your arse finding out about something that will fairly obviously have a direct bearing on your future fortunes, but to actually impart inaccurate information to our interim manager is unfathomable.

Surely the FAI employ researchers of some sort to uncover and study the various possibilities, consequences and permutations of results? Even a chap to read the papers and sift through the forums every now and again could prove vital in terms of picking up on obscure insights or even potentially eligible players.

[DannyInvincible]

But do you know why this is? Jews just adopt common names depending on where they live. It's as simple as looking at registry. Strange its in Israel itself, my guess would be these people moved back to "the motherland"

It's a bit like the Arabic surname of Maher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher).

[Kingdom]

There may be a sound-proof bubble around FAI headquarters. I found it very disconcerting that neither the FAI nor King were aware of the seeding situation for Euro 2016 and the implications that other results tonight, as well as our own, might have on our future seeding status. In fact, the FAI provided King with complete misinformation - he was inexplicably informed that tonight's fixtures would have no bearing on our future seeding - and I understand it was the media who pointed this out as incorrect during an interview/press conference with King the other day. How on earth did the FAI arrive at such a misunderstanding? Incompetence would be to not bother your arse finding out about something that will fairly obviously have a direct bearing on your future fortunes, but to actually impart inaccurate information to our interim manager is unfathomable.

Surely the FAI employ researchers of some sort to uncover and study the various possibilities, consequences and permutations of results? Even a chap to read the papers and sift through the forums every now and again could prove vital in terms of picking up on obscure insights or even potentially eligible players.

From what I know of ybig, there already is one of the FAI on their forum. Which makes it even worse.

[Charlie Darwin]

Haven't had a chance to look back on the match yet, but my impression watching it live was mixed. I have to say I was baffled by the selection and feared the worst from the first moment, but while Doyle looked hopelessly exposed on the left and Kelly little better, by and large we played as well as we have against a top nation in years. No matter what Ronnie Whelan says, it was far from the worst Irish performance in years, when you have Cyprus and Russia home and away to consider. Thought Whelan played very well, Wilson was a good screen but Gibson and McCarthy were anonymous barring a couple of probing passes from the former. Stokes' movement is really, really good but he is still very green at this level and I think it will take him time to become international quality. Overall, not great but not terrible either. The Kazakhstan performance will tell us an awful lot more about what the next four years will hold.


Think Stokes is getting off a little lightly here for a rank-bad first half. Schoolboy panic ball led to the German first, hesitant when put in by Gibson and laughably caught off-side while looking down the defensive line during one of our more positive moves.

He improved a bit in the second - looked more composed - and did well to force Neuer into a couple of decent saves. Deserves more auditions and hopefully he'll be more clinical if he plays on Tuesday.
Well, laughable indeed considering he was 2 yards onside.


Anyone know who the band playing out at the end of tonight's programme were?
Ah, punkrocket, you're not living up to your name. It's Enemies by the Radiators from Space; the great Phil Chevron passed away late last week - one of Ireland's greatest punk bands and musicians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRAPICwb36g

[BonnieShels]

But do you know why this is? Jews just adopt common names depending on where they live. It's as simple as looking at registry. Strange its in Israel itself, my guess would be these people moved back to "the motherland"

Well as a Abrahamic scholar... No I do not.

I would guess its an appropriation of a the similar sounding Gehrmann etc. The usual way names are made.

I'm sure there are plenty of Jewish Gormans in New York and the JAO too.

Maybe the Jewish lad in Afghanistan is a Gorman too...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_country

[Charlie Darwin]

Emmett Malone in the Times has confirmed Ireland's victory over Kazakhstan tonight but has yet to provide a final score: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/noel-king-to-sign-off-with-victory-over-kazakhstan-1.1560701

[SwanVsDalton]

Well, laughable indeed considering he was 2 yards.

Almost as late as a Noel King substitution with this one CD. Been informed (repeatedly) and mea culpa'd.

[Charlie Darwin]

Almost as late as a Noel King substitution with this one CD. Been informed (repeatedly) and mea culpa'd.
Shut up!

Any predictions for tonight's line-up? I'm caught between

Forde
Coleman Dunne Clark O'Shea
Wilson McCarthy Gibson
Stokes Keane Reid

and

Forde
Coleman Dunne O'Shea Wilson
Whelan McCarthy Gibson
Stokes Keane Reid

[Kingdom]

Forde

---------Dunne Clark O'Shea------
Coleman----------------------Wilson
----------------McCarthy-------------

-----Stokes----Gibson------Reid----

------------------Keane---------------

with Clark pushing into the defensive midfielder role and covering back as necessary, just so we won't be embarassed to defend.

[Kingdom]

Looks like Long isn't starting anyway. Just tweeted "Cowboy!! Nuff said" ....naughty boy!

[paul_oshea]

There may be a sound-proof bubble around FAI headquarters. I found it very disconcerting that neither the FAI nor King were aware of the seeding situation for Euro 2016 and the implications that other results tonight, as well as our own, might have on our future seeding status. In fact, the FAI provided King with complete misinformation - he was inexplicably informed that tonight's fixtures would have no bearing on our future seeding - and I understand it was the media who pointed this out as incorrect during an interview/press conference with King the other day. How on earth did the FAI arrive at such a misunderstanding? Incompetence would be to not bother your arse finding out about something that will fairly obviously have a direct bearing on your future fortunes, but to actually impart inaccurate information to our interim manager is unfathomable.

Surely the FAI employ researchers of some sort to uncover and study the various possibilities, consequences and permutations of results? Even a chap to read the papers and sift through the forums every now and again could prove vital in terms of picking up on obscure insights or even potentially eligible players.

I often pointed out the same concerns when trap and others seemed to think draws were ok and what not unaware of how the groups worked im sure, just like the FAI or were told so by the FAI.

[DannyInvincible]

Starting line-up confirmed (https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/390173629180149760):

Forde, Coleman, Dunne, O'Shea, Wilson, Gibson, McCarthy, Reid, Stokes, Doyle, Keane.

[Closed Account]

Starting line-up confirmed (https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/390173629180149760):

Forde, Coleman, Dunne, O'Shea, Wilson, Gibson, McCarthy, Reid, Stokes, Doyle, Keane.

What do we reckon?




Forde





O'Shea

Dunne



Coleman



Wilson



Gibson

McCarthy



Doyle

Keane

Reid











Stoke

[Yard of Pace]

Looks good to me. Long would want to begin putting the ball in the net at some stage.

[Charlie Darwin]

What do we reckon?




Forde





O'Shea

Dunne



Coleman



Wilson



Gibson

McCarthy



Doyle

Keane

Reid











Stoke





I reckon Keane up top with Reid in the hole and Stokes out wide.

The doc omitted from the matchday squad entirely, leaving him free to post in the thread in real-time.

[DannyInvincible]

The attendance is expected to be around 15,000, according the RTÉ.

[Paddy Garcia]

Ah, punkrocket, you're not living up to your name. It's Enemies by the Radiators from Space; the great Phil Chevron passed away late last week - one of Ireland's greatest punk bands and musicians.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRAPICwb36g

Did RTE finish the show with this - credit to them if so great tribute to a great musician.

[Charlie Darwin]

Did RTE finish the show with this - credit to them if so great tribute to a great musician.
Yeah, well they played it to a montage of the match.

[dr_peepee]

Disappointed again in that line up.. Maybe I'm too fond of symmetry in a line up. I dunno.

I would have made room for McGeady.. Long is right to be disappointed (but wrong in his response).

Central Midfield looks a little soft to me also.

[tricky_colour]

I reckon Keane up top with Reid in the hole and Stokes out wide.

The doc omitted from the matchday squad entirely, leaving him free to post in the thread in real-time.

Forde
O'Shea Dunne
Coleman Wilson
Gibson McCarthy
Doyle Reid Stoke

Keane

Yea the above is correct I think, we seem to be playing very narrow but that's the (useless) editor

[tricky_colour]

don't think it's gonna be a walk over

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd be more comfortable with Clark and Delaney in the centre.

[Charlie Darwin]

George reckons Mark Gorman's name is pronounced Goor-man. I'll trust his oracle of enunciation.

[tricky_colour]

do you mean goo-erman?

1-0

[Charlie Darwin]

Pick that out! Defense in disarray with Wilson then Coleman to blame.

[Paddy Garcia]

Hope they made Martinez pay for his ticket.

[tricky_colour]

not had a bet in this match, as a betting man looking at the odds the only team worth backing was kazahkstan
and i could not do that, there were 9-1 to win I think, plenty of value there.

[Charlie Darwin]

Peno. Man with the gloves thought he was a goalkeeper. Keane to score goal number #61.

[Paddy Garcia]

More than we deserve!

[tricky_colour]

always a bit of a give away when a defender brings his goal keeping gloves!! :p

[Paddy Garcia]

don't think it's gonna be a walk over

God no - we are not gonna roll over this time - we have already scored one.

[tricky_colour]

i cant heat the crowd at all on the commentary, well heard a bit then, i think it is RTE, sometimes the crowd noise
and be too loud but this lacks athmosphere

[Charlie Darwin]

Alan Kelly seems to have developed a Dublin accent in the 8 days or so since he started working with King.

[tricky_colour]

TAKE THAT!! (not the band)

[DannyInvincible]

John O'Shea with his second ever goal for us. 2-1.

[tricky_colour]

It's GURMAN on the no2 shirt not gorman