Ireland V Germany(A) 11th October & Kazakhstan(H) 15th October 2013 - World Cup '14 Q

[DannyInvincible]

Players will enjoy it and King makes an anti-Trap point.

(Oh and Meenan is a Northern Ireland u21 international (born in the Republlic))

Having already made a statement, selecting Meenan might have been pushing it!

In seriousness, I was impressed by King's forthrightness when I heard him discuss his selection policy in relation to the eligibility matter whilst managing the under-21s.

Am I correct in thinking Meenan's father is from Derry, by the way?


Anyway, it's refreshing that King actually seems to know which players have which attributes.

He even knew which League of Ireland players to select for the training game, demonstrating both knowledge of their attributes and of the existence of the league itself!

[Dodge]

Towell didn't get a contract presumably because the managers there didn't rate him. The game is full of players who in spite of their obvious talents have had trouble getting contracts and sometimes it's just a matter of finding a manager who has that amount of faith in you. Conor Henderson as recently as last month had run out of options at Championship level with managers unconvinced of his ability before Hull swooped in to give him a Premier League contract. Not getting a contract at one level doesn't necessarily say anything about a player's ability, aptitude, attitude or whatever. To me, Towell looks like he has all the attributes to make it a long way and I saw some of those traits in the SPL and underage teams too.
To be clear, I wasn't trying to suggest anything negative about Towell (and admit it came accross that way). I was just saying that it's not a foregone conclusion that he'll be involved in future Irish squads. There's plenty of things that can happen to him (as shown by being released by Celtic and not offered a permanent contract by Hibs) that *may* prevent him from realising his potential.


Am I correct in thinking Meenan's father is from Derry, by the way?

yep


He even knew which League of Ireland players to select for the training game, demonstrating both knowledge of their attributes and of the existence of the league itself!

I'm not suggesting King doesn't know which players he wanted but these five are more a result of who was allowed leave rather than the first 5 selected by King.

[Charlie Darwin]

Further endearing himself to the nation, Noel King has instructed Galaxy manager Bruce Arena to do one: http://www.fai.ie/international/senior-men/103604-noel-king-decides-not-to-release-robbie-keane-to-la-galaxy.html

[the doc]

Further endearing himself to the nation, Noel King has instructed Galaxy manager Bruce Arena to do one: http://www.fai.ie/international/senior-men/103604-noel-king-decides-not-to-release-robbie-keane-to-la-galaxy.html

I'm starting to have doubts about this U21 stand in.
Reminds me of Don Givens the way he goes about it.

[paul_oshea]

Why is he not paying you enough attention Sean?

[Razors left peg]

I'm starting to have doubts about this U21 stand in.
Reminds me of Don Givens the way he goes about it.

Your having doubts because he wouldn't release Robbie Keane back to his club when we have game? Do you think he should have released all the pro players back to their clubs and use players from the under 15s against Kazakhstan?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Anyway, back in the real world...
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1395338_598386463557180_1396054337_n.jpg

[ifk101]

So St Ledger is not in tomorrow's team. :bigsmile: In Noel King we trust!

[geysir]

Low expects to see off the irish plodders. According to Low, even if they play Andy Reid, after 10 minutes his dna will return to type and he'll be hoofing the ball up front. Unlike the Germans, the Irish subrace dna is just geared towards folly, after showing some rash bravery they are doomed to failure, time and time again.

Low expects to see off the pub team (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/löw-expects-to-see-off-technically-deficient-ireland-in-cologne-1.1555426)

[p2011]

While there may be a certain element of truth in Low's comments, it all comes across as very arrogant. Reid, Hoolahan et al. are no world beaters, but they're not the hoof merchants Low seems to expect from us. Here's hoping for an intelligent formation tomorrow and a wee bit of keep-ball on our part, even just for 15 or 30 seconds at a time.

Indo tips Gibson, McCarthy and Whelan for midfielf, not sure how that would work. Sounds like the flat three in midfield that didn't work in the 6-1 defeat. Though maybe it's just typical wild speculation.

[the doc]

So St Ledger is not in tomorrow's team. :bigsmile: In Noel King we trust!

Wrong again he's playing!
Your so predictable, so is life.

I'm more interested in the football than vain attempts to put forum posters down.

I just feel there been a lack if respect shown to Mr Trapattoni, which is unjust.
Yes it probably was one campaign too much but aside from this there were many good things.

Let's get behind the boys for tomorrow, whatever happens and whoever is picked will have little bearing on the new manager waiting to take over, he's decent by the way😇

[Stuttgart88]

According to Low, even if they play Andy Reid, after 10 minutes his dna will return to type and he'll be hoofing the ball up front. According to Robbie Keane last month too.

[geysir]

Low's right about the effort it takes to change the way a country plays football.
It's a delusion to think that changing a manager will alter some perception of mediocrity.

There are cycles when there are a few better than average players available but over time there's an average performance and that average is affected by the wider picture of football in a country. A clarion call to be less mediocre doesn't quite compare to the leadership, long term planning and hard work that has to go into being less mediocre.

[DannyInvincible]

I'm starting to have doubts about this U21 stand in.
Reminds me of Don Givens the way he goes about it.

In what sense? Why on earth should we release Robbie Keane for a competitive fixture? :confused:

[pateen]

Anyway, back in the real world...
http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1395338_598386463557180_1396054337_n.jpg

Davy Fitz in disguise

[osarusan]

Maybe we could be a mediocre passing team instead of a mediocre hoofing team for the time being.

[Stuttgart88]

I'll just throw in my 3rd Catch 22 reference in as many days. There's a great chapter on a character called Major Major Major Major. Heller wrote that he was mediocre at everything he did. He wasn't even good at being mediocre. Even at mediocrity he was mediocre.

[Dodge]

Low's right about the effort it takes to change the way a country plays football.
It's a delusion to think that changing a manager will alter some perception of mediocrity.

There are cycles when there are a few better than average players available but over time there's an average performance and that average is affected by the wider picture of football in a country. A clarion call to be less mediocre doesn't quite compare to the leadership, long term planning and hard work that has to go into being less mediocre.

It's even further complicated for Ireland when nearly all of or players are developed in Britain. So not only do we have to cahnge the footballing culture in Ireland, we have to hope that it changes in Britain too

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, for all the things I do blame our ills on the 'Ingles', football/soccer's not one of them.

Delusional or otherwise, their club football is on a far higher plane. Luckily to the detriment of their own national side?

[Stuttgart88]

It's even further complicated for Ireland when nearly all of or players are developed in Britain. So not only do we have to cahnge the footballing culture in Ireland, we have to hope that it changes in Britain tooAlthough the Dokter hopes to change the culture across the country from well before the emigration age. He's not the first to say this and parts of the youth footballing community are doing it on their own accord, but at least he is saying it and appears ready to act on it.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's even further complicated for Ireland when nearly all of or players are developed in Britain. So not only do we have to cahnge the footballing culture in Ireland, we have to hope that it changes in Britain too
I'm not sure this is quite right. As a "finishing school" of sorts, the English system has a good record of taking really talented, really technically-gifted players and making them better. Many of the better players in the English leagues received their education elsewhere before finishing their education in England at 16+, just like the Irish kids do. The difference seems to be that fewer Irish kids are of a good enough standard to compete with those kids. That's something we can change without reference to England, in my opinion.

[Fixer82]

Impressed with Noel King so far. Seems to be doing a lot of things right and talking sense (plus we can understand what he's saying)

Delighted the job didn't fall to Don Givens who has as good a track record of falling out with players as Trap

[Dodge]

Delusional or otherwise, their club football is on a far higher plane. Luckily to the detriment of their own national side?

To ours, of course. To the rest of Europe. Not a chance


I'm not sure this is quite right. As a "finishing school" of sorts, the English system has a good record of taking really talented, really technically-gifted players and making them better. Many of the better players in the English leagues received their education elsewhere before finishing their education in England at 16+, just like the Irish kids do. The difference seems to be that fewer Irish kids are of a good enough standard to compete with those kids. That's something we can change without reference to England, in my opinion.
It's not just a finishing school though, the bigger (and best, to be fair) schoolboy clubs in Ireland are priming players for England (and England only) from the age of about 11. Jack Wiltshire's comments during the week that "we're English, we tackle" is pretty easily transferabel to how Irish football views midfield play too.

I'm not offering any solutions here, I'm just pointing out that there will be no silver bullet for the Irish national team's ills

[Charlie Darwin]

But the English academies are picking up technically-gifted players from all over the world. They're ignoring Irish players because they're not good enough. You can't say the schoolboy clubs are priming players for England when they're doing an increasingly bad job.

[the doc]

Impressed with Noel King so far. Seems to be doing a lot of things right and talking sense (plus we can understand what he's saying)

Delighted the job didn't fall to Don Givens who has as good a track record of falling out with players as Trap

Kings out of his depth, his coaching is awful at this level from what I've seen.

The sooner we get rid of this clown the better!

[Fixer82]

Kings out of his depth, his coaching is awful at this level from what I've seen.

The sooner we get rid of this clown the better!

Well it's two games, let's see how we get on.
I haven't seen his coaching but his attitude and attention to detail seem right from what I've seen.

What do you know of his coaching? Were you coached by him yourself? (honest question btw)

[geysir]

St Ledger must be out in the cold.

[geysir]

When Germany played that friendly at Lansdowne Rd before WC90, apart from Liam Brady's substitution the only other notable thing was Germany kept trying to pass the ball across the back 4 /midfield and kept missing.

[Charlie Darwin]

Typical technically-deficient Germans.

[Yard of Pace]

When Germany played that friendly at Lansdowne Rd before WC90, apart from Liam Brady's substitution the only other notable thing was Germany kept trying to pass the ball across the back 4 /midfield and kept missing.

My first Ireland game. My ma brought me down to Dun Laoghaire on the pretense that we were collecting my da from work. Instead I was dispatched from the car to him and he brought me down to the DART and into the game. Still have the scarf. "Ireland - The Team That Beat The Brits".

I couldn't believe it.

The buzz, the atmosphere, the noise, the everything. Gripping my da's hand as tightly as possible with as big a smile on my face that a young lad of 7 is capable of.

One of the best evenings of my life and I've never lost the bug even once. And I still think we can win tomorrow!

[geysir]

Typical technically-deficient Germans.
A hangover from that dreadful 80's German pop music.

[Fixer82]

My first Ireland game. My ma brought me down to Dun Laoghaire on the pretense that we were collecting my da from work. Instead I was dispatched from the car to him and he brought me down to the DART and into the game. Still have the scarf. "Ireland - The Team That Beat The Brits".

I couldn't believe it.

The buzz, the atmosphere, the noise, the everything. Gripping my da's hand as tightly as possible with as big a smile on my face that a young lad of 7 is capable of.

One of the best evenings of my life and I've never lost the bug even once. And I still think we can win tomorrow!

God bless your optimism!

[geysir]

If the Germans were any good at football they would have won something since they fluked Euro 96.
There's something missing in their dna, if that's the best they can do with a population of 80 millions.
Overhyped moneylenders.

[Stuttgart88]

St Ledger must be out in the cold.
Irish Times suggesting Damien Delaney likely to start.

Keane emerging as a doubt. This will certainly be an interesting team selection. I don't envy King.

I've just deleted the team I'd pick because while typing I've thought of about 3 alternatives I'd equally like to see.

[Yard of Pace]

God bless your optimism!

The first match I remember properly is us beating Hungary 2-0 at home. I was 6. Ireland always won, until Italy beat us. And even then it was a glorious defeat. The optimism was bet into me. And anyway, it's 11 v 11 and anything can happen on the day. That's the glory of football. (See Ireland v Holland 2001 for reference) :D

[peadar1987]

I think people might be overreacting to that Low article. He never calls us a pub team, he accurately appraises our strengths and weaknesses. He says we're likely to play a high tempo game, lots of aggression and commitment, and to press the Germans hard. That's pretty much what most people here are hoping for, apart from the extremely deluded few who expect us to play like Spain with the addition of Andy Reid to the starting lineup.

"DNA", like so many other things, has a completely different meaning in football. He's not saying the Irish people are genetically predisposed to mucking up 5 yard passes, he's saying that forever reason, that's the sort of player we produce, and to be fair, with the youth setup we have, it kind of is.

[the doc]

Irish Times suggesting Damien Delaney likely to start.

Keane emerging as a doubt. This will certainly be an interesting team selection. I don't envy King.

I've just deleted the team I'd pick because while typing I've thought of about 3 alternatives I'd equally like to see.

King makes reference to how Trap treated players who were undisciplined and turned up when it suited them.

And then treats players who always turn up even when injured and gave 100% in every Ireland game, the same way.

Delaney and Kelly ahead of St Ledger at CB? What's King playing at?

[Stuttgart88]

Who mentioned Kelly?

And when did Delaney not turn up?

And when did King make those references?

[the doc]

Who mentioned Kelly?

And when did Delaney not turn up?

And when did King make those references?

Not Delaney or Kelly not turning up other players such as Gibson, Wilson etc.

Would you play Kelly at CB?
Delaney or Clark are both poor too

[geysir]

I think I'll watch that Italy total humiliation of Germany at Euro 2012, again. They were made to look genetically deformed that day.
Germany, the super team, went out like a bunchy of wimps.
At least we made Italy work up a sweat.

[p2011]

... part from the extremely deluded few who expect us to play like Spain ...

Who expects this? Who really expects this? This tired old argument gets trotted out so often any time someone suggests getting even slightly away from hoofball.

[paul_oshea]

I'll just throw in my 3rd Catch 22 reference in as many days. There's a great chapter on a character called Major Major Major Major. Heller wrote that he was mediocre at everything he did. He wasn't even good at being mediocre. Even at mediocrity he was mediocre.

I fee like that :)

[paul_oshea]

I think I'll watch that Italy total humiliation of Germany at Euro 2012, again. They were made to look genetically deformed that day.
Germany, the super team, went out like a bunchy of wimps.
At least we made Italy work up a sweat.

I take it you don't like Germany, and Loews comments.

[Stuttgart88]

Not Delaney or Kelly not turning up other players such as Gibson, Wilson etc.

Would you play Kelly at CB?
Delaney or Clark are both poor too

No, I'd never pick Kelly at CB. You know that I actually rate SSL too.

All King said was that it's a clean slate from this point. He was in no way hypocritical like you're suggesting. Bear in mind that there have to be doubts about SSL's match fitness too.

Delaney? In an open game I think he'd be vulnerable but sometimes a rearguard action plays to the strengths of gutsy defenders.

Clark? Great potential but still has a careless error in him. He's showing leadership qualities in my opinion.

[dr_peepee]

A fully fit and regularly playing at club level, Sledge would have started tomorrow... As things stand Delaney is the right option for tomorrow's game.

Doc, sincere question.... Has there ever been interest from Italian clubs for Sledge, from Traps recommendation??

[Colbert Report]

So is there any chance of Andy Reid starting the match in central midfield tomorrow?

[Crosby87]

Why does this thread title say "Thread for" and then the subject? I mean naturally every thread is for the subject of that thread. It can go without saying.

[geysir]

I take it you don't like Germany, and Loews comments.
Just call him Love.
I don't mind him or his comments, they were accurate enough and I've been saying that for ages, but I don't agree that we can't play better now or that we can't employ a different approach to what trap flogged to death and do better than our results in this campaign. Loewe's perceptions. like a lot of non Irish people, are guided by plastic stereotypes of what Irish is supposed to be, happy friendly drunks and in sport, gallant but crude and fated to lose. In the global world, Ireland is seen as the pub. Of course I would never expect that you fit that stereotype Paul?

I certainly don't think Germany are a super team or that they are generally destined to be superior at sports. Us icelanders regularly spank Germany at handball and even football:) It's a sheer pleasure to shove their superiority where the sun doesn't shine. Don't equate that with something prejudiced, that would be a thick interpretation.

[tricky_colour]

Loew names squad: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/max-kruse-the-only-striker-in-germany-squad-1.1550396

This game could be a new Loew point for Ireland :D

[tricky_colour]

Noel King invited Shamrock Rovers' David Elebert along with Richie Towell, John Sullivan, Kurtis Byrne and Andy Boyle of Dundalk to train with the squad today. I suspect this won't be the last time we see Towell involved with the senior international side.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=672969542721795&set=a.242684135750340.68027.239295259422561&type=1&theater

No Darren Meenan, surprisingly.

So I suppose if we are 6-0 down Noel could literally throw in the Towell.:D