Ireland V Germany(A) 11th October & Kazakhstan(H) 15th October 2013 - World Cup '14 Q

[brine3]

Stokes and Long could exploit Mertesacker's incredible lack of pace. Andy Reid and Hoolahan pinging balls past Mertesacker and Stokes and Long running on to them.

Robbie Keane doesn't have the pace for it.

edit: Just checked and Delaney is injured, so that explains his absence.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Agreed, except Long is in poor form and Robbie's scoring record speaks for itself, pace or not.
Reckon he'll start him and Walters upfront.

Doyle won't play, but mainly because his whole career in limbo, probably until the next transfer window.

[DeLorean]

King would be more concerned with making a mark in these 2 games, doing his professional duty. I don't think there's any popularity milage to be got for King in selecting old crowd favourite, Kevin Doyle. The popular returns are Reid and Gibson, possibly Stokes. However, those three do merit a call up, if they are fit.

I take it that both Dunne and O'Shea will be back for the home game, we probably do have enough to cover CH position in the away game.

Yeah I mentioned Doyle over the other three because a case could clearly be made for their inclusion based on form. Overall I just think the squad has excluded the guys who receive most criticism and were kind of easy to leave out... Sammon has got an awful doing amongst pundits/supporters, O'Dea's club situations have been thrown at him a lot and is an undeserved laughing stock amongst many I feel, Cox/Keogh are probably scapegoats due to circumstance (being played out of position). That said, I'd be happy if Sammon & Keogh, in particular, were no longer required to wear the green.

I agree with you that King is probably more concerned with making a mark, but two decent results to go along with pleasing the press and/or supporters, in terms of squad selection, would make a bigger mark than two decent results with a continuation of Trap's favourites.

I'm only putting it out there really anyway, Doyle arguably has more to offer than Sammon regardless of club form and I am more than happy to see the inclusion of Reid, Stokes and Gibson. It just feels a bit like a squad that it would be difficult to pick holes in, but I suppose that's a good thing and we've had too much of the opposite at this stage.


Edit: Just saw Stutts post now also, I think the above pretty much covers any response needed anyway. I wasn't having a dig at King really and I actually am happy with the squad. I just think it looks like something Eamon Dunphy would have picked, or many of the rest of us for that matter. I might not be explaining myself too well at this point!

[IsMiseSean]

Wilson has done well for us at centre-back. We have O'Brien and Coleman as full-backs and we have plenty of midfielders, so I'd put Wilson in as centre-back.

Has Wilson played CB for us before? I can only remember him playing LB.

[paul_oshea]

A crowd pleaser of a squad selection? The sceptical side of me wonders about his motives. It probably is near enough to our best squad available and there's a chance that King simply agrees with the masses. The likes of fans favourite Doyler coming back in makes me wonder a little bit though, form obviously hasn't been considered paramount. Even the exclusion of Darren O'Dea, with our current centre back crisis, seems a little bit drastic given he has done reasonable well for us.

He was the one of the main reasons we conceded 6 at home to Germany.

The players left out are left out becuase they are crap and offer us very little over others in their position. The reason they are villifiend in public is just the result of that.

That German midfield reads like a nursery ryhme or limerick.

[DeLorean]

John O'Shea and a non-existent midfield were every bit as bad as him in that game. We weren't exactly defending with much confidence in the lead up anyway... nine goals conceded in the Euros, most of them shocking and without O'Dea on the pitch. He was pretty awful on the night though, at fault for probably two of the goals, but he's looked solid for us otherwise. Anyway, like Stutts said, his exclusion isn't going to make or break us... I just think he gets a harder time than he deserves.

[Kingdom]

That German midfield reads like a nursery ryhme or limerick.

Meuller gives the ball over to Schmelzer,
whose drag back to Khedira's a belter,
Ozil dovetails with Kroos as he plays through young Reus,
before the balls into the net by old Klose, therefore the doc is onto a loser.


Entschuldingung.

[brine3]

Has Wilson played CB for us before? I can only remember him playing LB.

He was LB in Stockholm officially, but did a load of covering at centreback, was quite brilliant. I was behind the goal. Him and Coleman were our best players by far.

[Crosby87]

How did the back of the keepers head look?

[Charlie Darwin]

Delaney added to the squad, strangely: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/king-adds-defender-delaney-to-ireland-squad-1.1547873

[Charlie Darwin]

Loew names squad: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/international/max-kruse-the-only-striker-in-germany-squad-1.1550396

[jbyrne]

Stokes and Long could exploit Mertesacker's incredible lack of pace. Andy Reid and Hoolahan pinging balls past Mertesacker and Stokes and Long running on to them.


yes, exactly the way fenerbache, marseilles, spurs and napoli have shown this season. oh wait.....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, most Gooners will tell you Mertesacker's still easily their worst player when he fluffs up. Also the most improved this season...bizarrely enough.

Regardless of how he plays, it's irrelevant. Probably need 7 in midfield to cope with three of theirs...

[Stuttgart88]

More improved than Ramsey and Sczezczhczcszny (or however he spells his name)?

[Charlie Darwin]

Greg Cunningham is on standby, according to this article on Bristol City's match with Crawley being called off due to international call-ups: http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/Getting-loan-signing-difficult-says-Bristol-City/story-19886458-detail/story.html#axzz2gmTTIP9G

[ArdeeBhoy]

More improved than Ramsey and Sczezczhczcszny (or however he spells his name)?
'Chesney', and Ramsey, at least gave the impression of being decent before. Not a quality previously observed upon with Per.

[Stuttgart88]

McShane, Green and Quinn dropped from original squad to make it 23. Randolph injured (looked poor yesterday on TV) and Elliott called up.

[ArdeeBhoy]

As in yer man at Newcastle?
Hmm.

And

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s48x48/276736_239295259422561_1062967307_q.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/FAIOfficial?hc_location=timeline)Football Association of Ireland (Official) (http://www.facebook.com/FAIOfficial?hc_location=timeline)3 minutes ago via Mobile (http://www.facebook.com/mobile/?v=6628568379)


Following medical examination, Jon Walters has been ruled out of the Ireland squad to face Germany and Kazakhstan. Paul Green has been called up in his place. Keiren Westwood has also withdrawn to receive medical treatment during the international window and he will be replaced by Stephen Henderson.

[TrapAPony]

Westwood and Walters out. Henderson and Green in.

[Charlie Darwin]

Strange that Elliott was called up ahead of Henderson.

[CraftyToePoke]

Strange that Elliott was called up ahead of Henderson.

No sign of Kenny Paddy availing himself of the fresh start / bygones nature of recent weeks either. He would have a good shout for the jersey at present surely ?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Leeds fans wouldn't agree. The vast majority seem to be constantly moaning about Kenny...

[DannyInvincible]

Looks like the FAI aren't even prepared to fork out for a new bag for poor Noel!: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/noel-king-bag-1118878-Oct2013/?utm_source=facebook_short

https://scontent-b-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/970377_597317193664107_1164443662_n.jpg

[paul_oshea]

The picture of gibson, mccarthy and reid was very good. They all looked either confused or agitated or in disbelief or all 3!

[CraftyToePoke]

Leeds fans wouldn't agree. The vast majority seem to be constantly moaning about Kenny...

Did not know that. Any links?

Forde has retrieved the football from the net behind him nine times in the last two games and Randolph followed a dropped catch with a fresh air punch for the second, having been beaten along the ground on his near post for the opener at the weekend. Anyway, surely King offered the option to him also.

[DeLorean]

The picture of gibson, mccarthy and reid was very good. They all looked either confused or agitated or in disbelief or all 3!

Where's this picture Paul?

[Stuttgart88]

King seems set on 4-2-3-1

Whatever about the back 4 and GK, I'd say he will go with something like:

----Gibson-- McCarthy
Long------Reid------Pilkington
---------Keane-------

Let's call these positions

----Defensive M-----Defensive M-----
Wide Forward- Advanced Midfield--Wide forward
----------Central Forward----

And looking at the possible personnel:

Whelan, Gibson and McCarthy = most likely DM options
Pilkington, Stokes, Long, McClean, Brady (not this week obviously) are the WF options, with license to cut in. Walters when he returns and Doyle wouldn't be ridiculous as a wide-right forward cutting in.
Reid and Hoolahan would be the most likely AM options, possibly Brady in due course
Long, Keane, Doyle and Stokes are all CF options, as is Walters

WF is a kind of a hybrid forward & midfield role in essence, pretty common on the continent.

[Closed Account]

Where's this picture Paul?This one?
http://inpho.ie/cache/inpho/71/2d/14/4dd41d7f5b54027a898be7e526b1ae887db0954dd2/INPHO_00740793.jpg

[p2011]

That's a decent looking formation, S88, and probably what we should have been playing for the last 1-2 years or more. I'd have Hoolahan in there ahead of Reid, just slightly. Neither are world-beaters, nobody thinks that, but they are decent footballers who can play an important position used by most modern teams. They can help us to retain possession and move up the pitch a little.

Was never a fan of this "strikers on the wing" business, but Long out right is a decent option. If Keane is undroppable, then Long has to be accomodated somewhere.

[Stuttgart88]

Was never a fan of this "strikers on the wing" business, but Long out right is a decent option. If Keane is undroppable, then Long has to be accomodated somewhere.I think there's a difference between a "striker on the wing" and a forward who cuts in from wide. Pilkington and McClean are proper wide players, but Long & Stokes, for example, could probably have a good go at the Muller / Podolski type role.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, it's not going to matter much on Friday, besides a novelty value, how we line up/play next week is much more important.

[BonnieShels]

Let's call these positions

----Defensive M-----Defensive M-----
Wide Forward- Advanced Midfield--Wide forward
----------Central Forward----



No room for a Holding Midfielder there Stutts?

[Stuttgart88]

None whatsoever, anywhere or anytime!

[dr_peepee]

King seems set on 4-2-3-1

Whatever about the back 4 and GK, I'd say he will go with something like:

----Gibson-- McCarthy
Long------Reid------Pilkington
---------Keane-------
.

Is that the team you would play? I do think it's a safe (non contreversial) selection for Noel King though.

I'd consider dropping Keane against Germany with a garauntee of a start in the following game. I'd even consider Green ahead of Gibson to partner McCarthy in the defensive midfield role for the German game.

I'd play McGeady Reid and Pilkington in the advance midfield roles with Long alone up front. (If Hoolahan had been playing more football i'd have opted for him instead of Reid)

----Green-- McCarthy
McGeady------Reid------Pilkington
---------Long-------

That's just me though. Don't think i'd be brave enough to drop Keane and choose Green over Gibson in Kings position...

[paul_oshea]

I think Mcgeady is too lightweight against Germany, therefore I'd stick Long on the wing.

Long is not a goalscorer and we have seen him be very poor in front of goal and is short of match practice.

Keane can still grab a goal, i'd put him up there and Long on the wing for both of the above reasons, hence why im leaning with Stutts, you could always bring mcgeady on in the wing for Long with 20 mins to go when the germans are a little tired - not much mind cos they are German.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Long was a real physical threat when he came on against Arsenal on Sunday.

dr_peepee, I'd say that probably is the team I would play although I'd be torn between Reid and Hoolahan. I think Wes might be a better bench option, not having started much of late. McGeady for the bench too. I should have added him to my list of possibles.

I agree re-Keane, but I think it'd be interesting how well he can play that role. I don't think it's a lone striker role as such. The thing is, Germany away will probably teach us very little.

I'd also pick a goalkeeper and back 4!

[Larry 'da' Wyse]

Regarding tickets for the Kazakhstan tie premium tickets via ticketmaster are €40 which compares well with the general admission nosebleed sections for €35-€45.

Anyone know if you get anything extra like a programme or is it just the seat at 'premium' level with access to a bar?

[Dodge]

Yeah. that's all. If you're in one of the boxes you get a programme but they're not on general sale

[Charlie Darwin]

Noel King invited Shamrock Rovers' David Elebert along with Richie Towell, John Sullivan, Kurtis Byrne and Andy Boyle of Dundalk to train with the squad today. I suspect this won't be the last time we see Towell involved with the senior international side.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=672969542721795&set=a.242684135750340.68027.239295259422561&type=1&theater

No Darren Meenan, surprisingly.

[shakermaker1982]

Feeling a bit more positive now about the 2 games. Good to see Reid, Gibson & Stokes back in the fold & 4-5-1 is surely the only way you'd line up against this German side so a midfield looking like this could at least keep the ball for more than 2 passes:

Pilkington Gibson Hoolahan McCarthy Reid

I'd stick Long or Stokes up top for the donkey work (sorry Robbie).

[Yossarian]

No Darren Meenan, surprisingly.

Disappointing, considering he put himself about so well on Sunday.

[DannyInvincible]

Disappointing, considering he put himself about so well on Sunday.

I understand the "call-ups" were more to fill up required numbers for a training game rather than an indication of possible interest in calling them up at some point in the future or an exercise to offer them a flavour of senior international experience. Of course, King won't have the opportunity to select another Irish squad.

[Stuttgart88]

I think King called the guys up based on tactical reasons. He wanted certain types of players, no? It wasn't a statement that these are the top 5 players.

King uses 5 LOI players to prepare for Germany and it's seen as disappointing. Yossarian's username is very apt, putting King in a Catch 22 situation like that.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think King called the guys up based on tactical reasons. He wanted certain types of players, no? It wasn't a statement that these are the top 5 players.
They'd be among the better players but Towell is the only one who you'd say is in the top 5. He'll be in future Ireland squads, for sure, and he'll learn from this experience. The others, probably not. Elebert is probably only there because Croly doesn't rate him.

They were brought in because they occupy roughly the same positions as the players who sat out the 11 v 11 match - 3 defenders, a midfielder and a striker (Delaney, Clark, McGeady and Doyle).

[Dodge]

There's nothing sure about Towell and future squads. Fine player but there are reasons he didn't make the SPL grade. Hope he can recover and get back to learning a good living

King approached other LOI managers/players but they refused the request (on the basis of league games this weekend). Wouldn't be reading too much into the players selected as, to all intents and purposes, they're just bodies. Elebert, for example, is one of the worst centre halves in the league. 4th choice for the team in 5th position

No harm though. Players will enjoy it and King makes an anti-Trap point.

(Oh and Meenan is a Northern Ireland u21 international (born in the Republlic))

[geysir]

There's nothing sure about Towell and future squads. Fine player but there are reasons he didn't make the SPL grade. Hope he can recover and get back to learning a good living
I don't know what the reasons were that Towell didn't get an SPL contract but he appears to have gotten over it already.

[Charlie Darwin]

Towell didn't get a contract presumably because the managers there didn't rate him. The game is full of players who in spite of their obvious talents have had trouble getting contracts and sometimes it's just a matter of finding a manager who has that amount of faith in you. Conor Henderson as recently as last month had run out of options at Championship level with managers unconvinced of his ability before Hull swooped in to give him a Premier League contract. Not getting a contract at one level doesn't necessarily say anything about a player's ability, aptitude, attitude or whatever. To me, Towell looks like he has all the attributes to make it a long way and I saw some of those traits in the SPL and underage teams too.

[Stuttgart88]

Towell didn't get a contract presumably because the managers there didn't rate him. I heard he was hung out to dry by Fenlon.

[Stuttgart88]

Emmet Malone in today's Irish Times (http://http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/noel-king-yet-to-settle-on-side-ahead-of-mission-to-germany-1.1554457) is saying that yesterday's training suggests Gibson, Stokes and Clark are all likely to start and Wilson is in contention to play the DM role with O'Brien or Kelly going to left back.

I suppose in my post above about the 4231 shape, I should have said that Clark, O'Brien and Wilson are all candidates for a DM role too.

Anyway, it's refreshing that King actually seems to know which players have which attributes.

[paul_oshea]

So how come joey O'Brien didn't need this window to get his knee massaged?is he the fourth to have won a reprieve of sorts? or just didn't want to be near trap eithEr?

Anyway the whole thing is refreshing therr is an air of confidence coming out of the squad.

I wouldn't like to see stokes starting.its Keane for me Keane had a great understanding with players like Reid and Ireland less so with hoolahan for a whole host of reasons though.