Thanks Trap

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, still a waste of time in the general scheme of things.

Friendlies should be v.better teams, especially at home.

Trap beat what was in front of him, but reckon most of our fans would have fancied their chances in charge given the paucity of the opposition.

[tricky_colour]

That 'champagne' bottle is a Carling?
I suppose that fitted the occasion.
That was our 2nd ever trophy, it might well be our last.
Unless we compete for the Muratti Vase in the Island Games against Guernsey, Jersey, IoM, IoW, Sark, Aland etc.

A trophy is a trophy. What is the format? Is there a qualifying round??

It seems Guernsey is the team to avoid in the early stages.

It seems only Guernsey, Jersey and Alderney take part, so no risk of being embarrassed by a slip up in Rockall.

[tricky_colour]

Wasn't the "trophy" manufactured with recycled Carling tins?


Containing recycled lager presumably.

[ArdeeBhoy]

On the basis of this MB, recycled 'jokes' are more likely...
;)

[peadar1987]

Yeah, still a waste of time in the general scheme of things.

Friendlies should be v.better teams, especially at home.

Trap beat what was in front of him, but reckon most of our fans would have fancied their chances in charge given the paucity of the opposition.

But what if those "better teams" decide that playing the likes of Ireland is beneath them (like you've decided playing the likes of NI, Wales and Scotland is beneath us)?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except they don't.

They're all suckers to play us...
Must be the hospitality thing.

[peadar1987]

Except they don't.

They're all suckers to play us...
Must be the hospitality thing.

Probably the money they get to show up and give 50% for 90 minutes. I'd much rather the lads play against an NI or Scotland side who are up for the game than an Argentina one who are going to phone it in (and probably still beat us).

[ArdeeBhoy]

You mean like the last time?

If it must be 'local' teams, then Wales, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland.

At least then, there's a few decent reciprocal away trips hopefully?

And how often do we play Argentina/Brazil?
Once a decade?

[peadar1987]

You mean like the last time?

If it must be 'local' teams, then Wales, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Iceland.

At least then, there's a few decent reciprocal away trips hopefully?

And how often do we play Argentina/Brazil?
Once a decade?

The last time was a shambles because some muppet in the FAI decided on the stupidest format known to man. Did they really expect more than a few thousand to turn up to watch Wales against Scotland in Dublin?

It should always have been run on a "six nations" style format, over several weekends, in teams' actual stadia. I'd have been in favour of inviting a guest team to spice things up each time, be that Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Iceland or whoever. I think that format would have stood a chance, and teams would have actually been interested and wanted to win it. Any idiot could have told you that the idiotic format they chose was never going to work.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, seems fair enough.

But unless you want a gentle pre-season workout, playing teams worse than you in friendlies is largely futile. Even if they are more 'hungry'...

[peadar1987]

Yeah, seems fair enough.

But unless you want a gentle pre-season workout, playing teams worse than you in friendlies is largely futile. Even if they are more 'hungry'...

I disagree. Teams of the same standard as you or worse still have to be beaten, and it's an area where Ireland have historically slipped up. More practice in such games against someone really going for it can only be a benefit.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly you've never been to many Ireland friendlies in recent times...

Mediocre opposition? Thanks, but no thanks...

[DeLorean]

None of those teams are all that much worse than us really. With good management they are all capable of doing something decent. NI regularly get excellent results against good sides, Scotland seem to be turning a corner big time under Strachan, wins in Croatia and Macedonia recently and Wales looked to be very much on the right track before being rocked by Gary Speed's death. I certainly wouldn't regard friendlies against their full strength sides as "futile" even if we do appear a bit stronger.

[peadar1987]

Clearly you've never been to many Ireland friendlies in recent times...

Mediocre opposition? Thanks, but no thanks...

The primary point of international friendlies should be to improve the side, not to give fans a big day out to look at all the shiny footballers who play for Real United. In a perfect world, we'd play against a full-strength, highly motivated Spain, Brazil or Italy three or four times a year. That's simply not going to happen, so in my opinion, we'd be better off playing teams similar to our own ability in a tournament setting, where there's more chance they'll give their all and give Ireland better experience of playing as a team in a competitive game.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Nah, unless you want a cure for insomnia.

Anyway,
http://www.talkingsport.org/#!ybigfootballshow/cfvg
For another view of Trap et al.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Latest blog on Trap era and possible successors. Bit of a long piece, was a ******* to finish!

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2013/09/trap-finally-gets-sprung.html

[OwlsFan]

The last time was a shambles because some muppet in the FAI decided on the stupidest format known to man. Did they really expect more than a few thousand to turn up to watch Wales against Scotland in Dublin?.

The rugger bugg*rs turn up each year in vast numbers to watch Ireland play Scotland and Wales. Alas for them, that is the height of their excitement except occasionally they might get to play New Zealand or Australia. Because football is such an international sport, some Irish fans thought playing our neighbours was the epitome of boredom. I enjoyed the games and took pleasure in winning the tournament. Easily pleased perhaps but I still think it wasn't a bad achievement to beat all three. The rugby people go mad when they win a triple crown. Throw England in instead of the Nordies and there would have been no difference - I think we would have had a good chance of beating them as well but the tournament would still have been discounted by some. What's good enough for rugby, not good enough for us.

[DannyInvincible]

While it's no glittering hall of fame trophy, I have no complex about our team winning it, even if it was made on the cheap.

I was merely being frivolous. In fact, I'd go as far as admitting I enjoyed the tournament and the overall winning of it myself. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha, it was so good, they repeated it. Not.

[peadar1987]

Ha, it was so good, they repeated it. Not.

For somebody who dislikes Northern Ireland so much, you're taking surprisingly little pleasure in having comfortably beaten them, picking up a trophy in the process!

[geysir]

Ha, it was so good, they repeated it. Not.
Inferior 'angloistic' ways of talking are infiltrating your day to day expression.
The next stage is that your R's will be disappearing into W's
or heaven help us, you'll be using that word 'pants'.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So Anglo-Icelandic is yer excuse? :rolleyes:

And peadar, see what Danny said at the top of this page...

[DannyInvincible]

For somebody who dislikes Northern Ireland so much, you're taking surprisingly little pleasure in having comfortably beaten them, picking up a trophy in the process!

I think you're being a bit unfair on AB there. He doesn't hate. Sure how could you hate something you don't acknowledge in the first place? :p

[ArdeeBhoy]

Exactly, DI.
Used to live there and may even have been eligible to play for them, not that I would. So no loss either way...
;)

[DannyInvincible]

may even have been eligible to play for them, not that I would.

They didn't try to poach you too, did they?!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha ha.
;)

[OwlsFan]

Ha, it was so good, they repeated it. Not.

Only because the event junkies stayed away and the FAI didn't make money on it. Not as exciting as Celtic playing Liverpool apparently in "the decider" which gets a full house.

[DeLorean]

Saw this on Sky recently.


World's Greatest Managers: Giovanni Trapattoni



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pAt2WUlKyQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[geysir]

In the 1985 ECF, the penalty that Juve got was indeed a foul but it just happened outside the box? Hard to tell in that video @9.45.
That Juve team was some team.

[DeLorean]

Definitely looks outside, although I can barely make out the line. Some ball over the top though.

[DeLorean]

Trap for Côte d’Ivoire? (http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/reports-in-italy-say-that-giovanni-trapattoni-has-a-new-international-job/)

[SkStu]

Trap for Côte d’Ivoire? (http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/reports-in-italy-say-that-giovanni-trapattoni-has-a-new-international-job/)

That would be a mirror image of the Irish job in fairness...

Coat is in hand... :(

[geysir]

Not bad Stu, considering the time of day.

[Grafter]

Trap for Côte d’Ivoire? (http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/reports-in-italy-say-that-giovanni-trapattoni-has-a-new-international-job/)

If Trap becomes Ivory Coast boss and leads them to Russia 2018 at 79.... well all you can do is admire his persistence and stamina!

[OwlsFan]

Au I'voire Trap! Bon chance.

[Charlie Darwin]

Apparently Trap is going around telling everyone he is the new Ivory Coast manager. Wasn't he linked with the same job when he was Ireland manager?

[NeverFeltBetter]

He was soon after he was sacked anyway. Not sure why they'd have any piece of him.

[Eminence Grise]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/worldcup/2014/0701/627727-trapattoni-hopes-to-train-elephants/

Well, he did his best to turn some of our players into clowns, so he may as well go all the way and finish off the circus.

[OwlsFan]

Well, he did his best to turn some of our players into clowns, so he may as well go all the way and finish off the circus.

What players did he try and turn in to clowns?

[Charlie Darwin]

What players did he try and turn in to clowns?
I heard a few people refer to someone called Bozo running around in midfield.

[Eminence Grise]

What players did he try and turn in to clowns?

He failed thankfully. A good ringmaster doesn't turn acrobats and lion-tamers into clowns. A good coach doesn't turn professional footballers into a psychologically brittle group, lacking in self-belief and weighed down by an inferiority complex, tripping over their big feet whenever a ball comes near them. Circus seals are allowed show better ball skills than our players under Trap!

[geysir]

He failed thankfully. A good ringmaster doesn't turn acrobats and lion-tamers into clowns. A good coach doesn't turn professional footballers into a psychologically brittle group, lacking in self-belief and weighed down by an inferiority complex, tripping over their big feet whenever a ball comes near them. Circus seals are allowed show better ball skills than our players under Trap!
That's refreshing to hear that much/most/all of our football dysfunction was all down to Trap. No doubt, regardless of how much of that dysfunction you attribute to Trap, now that we have a positive manager who is about motivation etc plus ironman Keane, you should be confident that we can expect better qualification campaigns than previous and make the last 16 24 for Euro 2016 with a game or two to spare?
That is of course, if you are not playing the infinite-value-Paul-get-out-card, that Trap had our best players at their peak, a golden generation gone to waste, etc etc.

[Eminence Grise]

I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy! :D And dysfunction is a good word to use: I’ve said here before that the key member of our squad has to be a psychologist. Trap got our players accepting that were second-best, and could neither aspire to being better than nor deserve better than that, and that’s a team beaten before they take to the field.

Arguably our golden generation peaked as players in the six years after WC2002. If there was a waste of a golden generation, it was Stan’s 2006 appointment that rushed it towards an unfulfilled conclusion. Trap’s first campaign showed promising signs of stability, but he shouldn’t have had to stabilise a team with Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given etc at their peak. By the time 2012 rolled around, peaks were past and stability had turned to sterility.

Trap didn’t get the best out of our best players (positionally and tactically) and persisted with ordinary players – Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Andy Keogh etc – far longer than even our thin pool needed. Forget controversies, players like Liam Lawrence, Hoolahan and Damien Delaney were discarded too quickly: is LL a better right mid than AK, DD a better leftback than SW - probably. Without getting into interminable who-should-have-been-capped-sooner debates, there were more players he could have tried. Sure, some would have been one-cap wonders, but we might also have three competent midfielders sharing 50 caps between them - and giving MON-Roy a selection headache - rather than one Glenn Whelan with over a half ton of appearances.

Plus, while most of our squad players are not superstars, or even continental class (ie key players for their teams in European football) they were generally more competent playing club football than for Ireland – the passing ability, tactical nous and movement required of a bottom Premiership/top Championship player/team are more demanding than the type of game Trap had us play. I read an interview with Coleman somewhere where he said that Moyes prepped Everton to play in three different formations/styles, depending on the phase a game was at – I doubt this is unique, and suggests that good professionals have a greater ability to adapt within a match than Trap realised or cared about. Trap subordinated both ordinary and good players to the diktats of a formation and made them play within themselves. MON and Roy are less likely to do that, I hope.

[Stuttgart88]

I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy! :D And dysfunction is a good word to use: I’ve said here before that the key member of our squad has to be a psychologist. Trap got our players accepting that were second-best, and could neither aspire to being better than nor deserve better than that, and that’s a team beaten before they take to the field.
O'Neill's great strength is supposed to be his motivational powers. Already I can see McGeady performing at a better level for us than previously, but beyond McGeady the jury is still out. However, for a guy who has such a reputation for getting the best out of his players I have been seriously disappointed in O'Neill's public utterings of only having a few PL players, not being able to magic up quality players, not seeing any good young ones coming through and seriously looking at the granny rule. It looks like he is making his excuses early, preparing for failure before he fails.

We are lacking Champions League quality, no doubt, but we have a pool of players who hold their own in the PL and actually impress from time to time, and guys who are definitely among the better Championship players. This is easily good enough to compete with Scotland and Poland. In a one off game we should be able to compete with most good teams and this WC has emphatically put to bed the notion that good teams can't include some mediocre players.

So far I'm disappointed in O'Neill's statements and, like Paul, I haven't seen much in his TV analysis that makes me think he's up to speed on how the game has changed in the last few years. I'm beginning to think Paul Rowan is right and that he's not taking this role as seriously as he might. Just my hunch, not evidence based. But my disappointment in his public assessment of what he has to work with is evidence based. By all means disregard the players who didn't do anything on tour, but what's left is more than decent enough and he shouldn't be making excuses for them.

[geysir]

I think we can qualify, but I’d happily take it in the last group game. Let's not be greedy! :D And dysfunction is a good word to use: I’ve said here before that the key member of our squad has to be a psychologist. Trap got our players accepting that were second-best, and could neither aspire to being better than nor deserve better than that, and that’s a team beaten before they take to the field.

Arguably our golden generation peaked as players in the six years after WC2002. If there was a waste of a golden generation, it was Stan’s 2006 appointment that rushed it towards an unfulfilled conclusion. Trap’s first campaign showed promising signs of stability, but he shouldn’t have had to stabilise a team with Duff, Keane, Dunne, Given etc at their peak. By the time 2012 rolled around, peaks were past and stability had turned to sterility.
The instability was always at CM, same for Kerr (- Roy), Stan and then Trap. Keane and Duff were not central midfielders. They were both past their peak, Keane to Liverpool and a slide downwards after, an injury ravaged Duff didn't really play until the Nov 2009 play off, next game after that for him was March 2011. At an equivalent stage in Trap's tenure, going into the first two qualifiers, he had a fixed (later super glued) impression on how we could play effectively with Steven Reid central to everything important. It was impressive and solid but then we lost both Reids, Gibson was given his chances but he didn't adapt so well, looked like a square peg and kept getting injured. What happened after that is another story, but if O'Neill is half as decisive and disciplined as Trap was, he'll start well.
However we are a good way off performing as well as other low life european WC qualifiers, like Greece or Switzerland.

[Crosby87]

Interesting look back at Trap on this, the 8th anniversary of his hiring.
http://www.the42.ie/trapattoni-made-ireland-competitive-force-opinion-2596273-Feb2016/

[Fixer82]

Trap brought a constistency for sure but he fell out with and retired way too many players. We're not Brazil for feck's sake!
My other big issue with him was that when Spain were walking through our midfield he stuck rigidly to 4-4-2. There was no Plan B whatsoever. Football had moved on and left him behind by 2012.

[DeLorean]

We're not Brazil for feck's sake!

He'd agree with you there.

[Fixer82]

He'd agree with you there.

ha, true. He retired players as if their replacements were readily available all the same

[OwlsFan]

Trap brought a constistency for sure but he fell out with and retired way too many players. We're not Brazil for feck's sake!
My other big issue with him was that when Spain were walking through our midfield he stuck rigidly to 4-4-2. There was no Plan B whatsoever. Football had moved on and left him behind by 2012.

We did have a Plan B but I think I preferred Plan A.