Austria V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 10th September 2013 - World Cup 14 Qualifier

[Bungle]

I think qualification shouldn't be the official target. Stiff targets often have unintended consequences. In the UK the national education target is XX% of students getting a minimum of C grades. It's intuitively sensible. They're hitting that target but at the expense of students who get better than C grades and who now get no attention and are doing worse.

My point is that a qualification target is more likely to encourage more conservatism. It's also too narrow a focus.

Just hire a good manager and let him do his best. Tell him that he is expected to attend games, interact with the U21 and U19 coaches and generally help promote the game across the country.

Spot on with that. We need a manager who is aware of our younger teams and shows a major interest in them. I have seen Del Bosque, Loew and Hodgson at youth tournaments and matches. I think we also need a manager who is prepared to try new things and take a chance with youth - a bit like Mick when he took over from Jack.

[DannyInvincible]

It's got that sad, people are now talking about Stan in a near sentimental way! Trap really has to go now.

As depressing as the situation in which we currently find ourselves is, there is also such a thing as tongue in cheek. :)

[bennocelt]

I hate this criticism. We got to a championship. Only two Irish managers have done that before. I hate that we did so badly at the Euros but it was a huge achievement just to get there.

By beating Estonia, did you have a good time in poland, enjoy yourself?:rolleyes:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Actually I did. Despite our 'football'...and two days in hospital!!

[Crosby87]

Your herpes always flare up at the worst times Ardee.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Your herpes always flare up at the worst times Ardee.


??
As opposed to a literary diarrohea??
;)

[tetsujin1979]

By beating Estonia, did you have a good time in poland, enjoy yourself?:rolleyes:
be earning the right to be drawn against Estonia, or any other lower seeded side.

[bennocelt]

be earning the right to be drawn against Estonia, or any other lower seeded side.

Yes but we definitely wouldnt have qualified if we had drawn a decent team, a huge element of luck in that draw. When we got to the actual business end of the Euros we didnt cover ourselves in glory.
But I guess some people celebrate this as "success"

[DannyInvincible]

The fact we were seeded for that draw made it a lot more likely we'd have to face Estonia though. Had we not been seeded, it's unlikely we'd have made the Euros.

[Crosby87]

The Estonia draw was rigged. FIFA was doing us a solid for the Henry thing. And you know what? That happens all the time in sports and we deserved it.

[geysir]

Yes but we definitely wouldnt have qualified if we had drawn a decent team, a huge element of luck in that draw. When we got to the actual business end of the Euros we didnt cover ourselves in glory.
But I guess some people celebrate this as "success"
Again, an endless rehash of the usual revisionist nonsense, this time with added childish sarcasm.
We won the away games in the qual campaign, games which other managers found impossible to win. We were seeded on merit, totally on merit.
We would have been favourites or slight favourites to beat any of the 4 play-off possible opponents.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Blog on game and trip if anyone's interested.....

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2013/09/its-goodnight-vienna-as-trap-door-opens.html

[bennocelt]

Again, an endless rehash of the usual revisionist nonsense, this time with added childish sarcasm.
We won the away games in the qual campaign, games which other managers found impossible to win. We were seeded on merit, totally on merit.
We would have been favourites or slight favourites to beat any of the 4 play-off possible opponents.

So why are you not sticking then with Trap:rolleyes:
Oh yes I know why!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, Trap's results before the Euros justified his managerial position...the performances during didn't, which is why/when he should have left with the gratitude of most of a nation.

[geysir]

So why are you not sticking then with Trap:rolleyes:
Oh yes I know why!
Benno, as it's not humanly possible right now for you to bridge the gap between knowledge and what you think you know, I wouldn't advise you to try answering that question, one that somehow in your bizarre logic, you assume is a reason to support your assertion that
"we definitely wouldnt have qualified if we had drawn a decent team, a huge element of luck in that draw."
The first step for you, is explain why you think there was a huge element of luck in that draw?
What decent team would have definitely beaten us in Nov 2011, a poorish Turkey? Bosnia? Montenegro? or do you want to go back further and point out all the "luck" we had before the playoffs which improved our seed status in the draw?

[bennocelt]

Benno, as it's not humanly possible right now for you to bridge the gap between knowledge and what you think you know, I wouldn't advise you to try answering that question, one that somehow in your bizarre logic, you assume is a reason to support your assertion that
"we definitely wouldnt have qualified if we had drawn a decent team, a huge element of luck in that draw."
The first step for you, is explain why you think there was a huge element of luck in that draw?
What decent team would have definitely beaten us in Nov 2011, a poorish Turkey? Bosnia? Montenegro? or do you want to go back further and point out all the "luck" we had before the playoffs which improved our seed status in the draw?

Because most half decent teams do well against us? Turkey, Bosnia would have beaten us. I will give you monetengro. But then how can I tell? Well tell me any decent teams we HAVE actually beaten under Trap, and dont count Armenia!
Now Traps gone, what does that say? Was he not the greatest thing since sliced bread?!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, Ireland drew with Montenegro home and away under Trap, so would say they're evenly matched.

But our recent record v.'decent' teams generally is poor in terms of wins but much better v.the mediocre and dross prior to this latest campaign.

[boovidge]

Does this whole debate actually matter now he's gone?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Someone has to write the history!

[DannyInvincible]

Because most half decent teams do well against us? Turkey, Bosnia would have beaten us. I will give you monetengro. But then how can I tell? Well tell me any decent teams we HAVE actually beaten under Trap, and dont count Armenia!
Now Traps gone, what does that say? Was he not the greatest thing since sliced bread?!

If we can stretch it to friendlies, I suppose we could include Poland, Bosnia, Paraguay, Colombia... Erm...

Comfortably beating Macedonia away was a result for which credit is deserved, in fairness. It was the type of game in which we'd always faltered in the past.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Tbf, Ireland drew with Montenegro home and away under Trap, so would say they're evenly matched.

But our recent record v.'decent' teams generally is poor in terms of wins but much better v.the mediocre and dross prior to this latest campaign.

Were denied the most stone wall pen away to Montenegro I've seen and were the better team that day and the home game was a dead rubber to be fair.

[geysir]

Someone has to write the history!
That's no problem,
It's the rewriting of history that's an issue.

"Bosnia would have definitely beaten us in the play offs, absolutely no doubt."
"Didn't we beat Bosnia?"
"Oh that was a friendly and they looked the better team in the first half"

"Didn't we do well in the second half?"
"oh, they just tired, jet lagged"

[bennocelt]

That's no problem,
It's the rewriting of history that's an issue.

"Bosnia would have definitely beaten us in the play offs, absolutely no doubt."
"Didn't we beat Bosnia?"
"Oh that was a friendly and they looked the better team in the first half"

"Didn't we do well in the second half?"
"oh, they just tired, jet lagged"

Two can play at that game. Facts are the team dont perform well against decent opposition, surely Geysir you cant argue against that?
I mean, christ, even Northern Ireland beat Russia (ok they also lost to luxembourg!), but it can be done if tactics and correct management are applied.

[geysir]

Two can play at that game. Facts are the team dont perform well against decent opposition, surely Geysir you cant argue against that?
I mean, christ, even Northern Ireland beat Russia (ok they also lost to luxembourg!), but it can be done if tactics and correct management are applied.
Benno you rewrite your facts. I'll stick to the fact that we gave Italy and France a decent game in the first campaign, but no doubt you'll find lucky reasons for that :) In the second campaign, our invincible rearguard collapsed but we did more than enough to qualify for the Euros ahead of a bunch of middling teams. But just like some teams who get promoted to the premier league, he made a big mistake with sticking to the team and tactics that got him there. So yes the time was up on those tactics after we qualified, even before then. Gibson and one other would not have made much overall difference, but it would have been the thing to do.

[bennocelt]

Benno you rewrite your facts. I'll stick to the fact that we gave Italy and France a decent game in the first campaign, but no doubt you'll find lucky reasons for that :) In the second campaign, our invincible rearguard collapsed but we did more than enough to qualify for the Euros ahead of a bunch of middling teams. But just like some teams who get promoted to the premier league, he made a big mistake with sticking to the team and tactics that got him there. So yes the time was up on those tactics after we qualified, even before then. Gibson and one other would not have made much overall difference, but it would have been the thing to do.

But we didnt beat them either. Anyway a week is long time, now back to club football (thank god):D

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, there are loads of times Ireland have played well v. 'decent opposition'.
Just not recently. Since Russia away.

[DeLorean]

Bumping thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UosLzc93sbU

[DeLorean]

Closed thread.