Austria V Republic of Ireland - Tuesday, 10th September 2013 - World Cup 14 Qualifier

[Charlie Darwin]

Dunphy talks some absolute ****e, hopefully he leaves at the end of the campaign also.
You've jumped the fence, baby.

[tricky_colour]

So leave on Walters and take off Pilkington.

POX!



I though Pilkington was one of our best players.

[Fergie's Son]

What's he saying?

[zero]

I though Pilkington was one of our best players.

green, pilkington and coleman played ok. long ran his heart out but that's about it.

mccarthy for the second game in a row was poor.

[centre mid]

Dont think Green gave McCarthy a huge help tonight in fairness, or Walters for that matter.

[BonnieShels]

I though Pilkington was one of our best players.

As did I

[tricky_colour]

Incidentally the ref is the one who gave Hungarian footballer Miklos Feher a yellow card just before he collapsed and died.
he also sent off a player before he got on the pitch.

[SwanVsDalton]

Anyone fancy offering a live update of RTE for us nordies stuck in broadcast purgatory?

Dunphy and Brady having a fist-fight while Giles snoozes languidly?

[Charlie Darwin]

Dont think Green gave McCarthy a huge help tonight in fairness, or Walters for that matter.
Green was better than McCarthy to be honest and a deserved man of the match I feel. Still surprised they didn't give it to Dunne though after Friday. After a shaky first 15 minutes I thought he played well in the advanced position McCarthy usually plays when Whelan is in the team. I think the new manager will drop Whelan and Green, but I can admit he was our best player from a bad bunch.

[centre mid]

Anyone fancy offering a live update of RTE for us nordies stuck in broadcast purgatory?

Dunphy and Brady having a fist-fight while Giles snoozes languidly? Not far off

Chippy doing a gallant effort to defend Trap, Dunphy saying the first thing that comes into his head - at one point he claimed the Spain manager Del Bosque was only on €50k.

[DannyInvincible]

I understand we'll now slip down to our lowest ever position in the FIFA rankings. Weren't we told we were going for the victory tonight? Why, then, did it look like Forde was instructed to dilly-dally with his kick-outs?

The substitutions were just unbelievable. Pilkington was playing well when Trap decided to replace him and was still offering us something down the wing. We seemed to capitulate after he came off and once that attacking outlet was extinguished. I don't know why Walters was left on the pitch, or why he was started out there in the first place, but that's nothing new...

Austria looked absolutely woeful in the first-half but had us hanging on for dear life in the second. What remaining good will I had for Trap before this game has quickly evaporated within the last half an hour there. Fair play to Coleman for nearly risking his life for us with the two outrageous blocks! One of the few things that actually impressed me tonight, that was; what heart.

[Charlie Darwin]

Not far off

Chippy doing a gallant effort to defend Trap, Dunphy saying the first thing that comes into his head - at one point he claimed the Spain manager Del Bosque was only on €50k.
Surprised Dunphy hasn't managed a dig at Ronaldo yet. He's in full-on Dunphy cliché mode.

[DannyInvincible]

Anyone fancy offering a live update of RTE for us nordies stuck in broadcast purgatory?

Dunphy and Brady having a fist-fight while Giles snoozes languidly?

My stream went a while ago. At first, I'd thought RTÉ had cut the coverage, things were getting so violent! :p

[tricky_colour]

Just for the record, to qualify we need Austria to beat Sweden and then for the Faroe Islands to beat Austria whilst we beat both
Germany and Kazakhstan making up at least 8 goals, not even sure if 8 is enough, might need 9.
In other words it's not gonna happen.

[centre mid]

Trap - Not resigning anyway - wants to stay on for the next campaign

[tricky_colour]

My stream went a while ago. At first, I'd thought RTÉ had cut the coverage, things were getting so violent! :p

I think the guy streaming it had had enough, I would have like to have seen the post-mortem though.

[Charlie Darwin]

Trap - Not resigning anyway - wants to stay on for the next campaign
I think he's earned it to be fair.

[the bear]

Just completly sick of it by now. No point in making the same comments again. At least he will finally go now

[SwanVsDalton]

My stream went a while ago. At first, I'd thought RTÉ had cut the coverage, things were getting so violent! :p

http://31.media.tumblr.com/c7fc83088be315eefdc7a683e0193274/tumblr_mialpus4lU1rulfhvo1_500.jpg

[Stuttgart88]

I thought we were OK for 60 mins and with a bit more craft in the middle could have snuck one. Trap waited until the likes of Long, Pilkington and Walters were exhausted befor making his usual like-for-like subs. Wilson was awful for the goal.

We're heading for 14 points at best from this group. Worst in how long?

[Charlie Darwin]

I thought we were OK for 60 mins and with a bit more craft in the middle could have snuck one. Trap waited until the likes of Long, Pilkington and Walters were exhausted befor making his usual like-for-like subs. Wilson was awful for the goal.

We're heading for 14 points at best from this group. Worst in how long?
Wilson could have done better but he wasn't to know two of his own players would dive in front of the ball. Our defence was just massively disorganised all night.

[NeverFeltBetter]

So, lets just sum it all up:

Worst FIFA ranking.
Worst performance in a championships.
Numerous player disputes.
Failure to beat any team ranked higher or at the same level.
Worst home defeat in decades.
Open contempt for domestic league.
End of the vaunted away record.
Looking at dropping down a seed.
Millions and millions in wages.

That's just great. Anyway, it's been a treat, watching the gradual shift of pro and anti Trap from around 6:4 after the Euros to the current 1:9 or so. Just waiting for someone to continue to insist "we haven't got the players...unlucky...Paris...Estonia" so we can renew the persistent argument of the last year.

[DannyInvincible]

Oh, if only to be blessed with Stan again... :(

[Charlie Darwin]

So, lets just sum it all up:

Worst FIFA ranking.
Worst performance in a championships.
Numerous player disputes.
Failure to beat any team ranked higher or at the same level.
Worst home defeat in decades.
Open contempt for domestic league.
End of the vaunted away record.
Looking at dropping down a seed.
Millions and millions in wages.

That's just great. Anyway, it's been a treat, watching the gradual shift of pro and anti Trap from around 6:4 after the Euros to the current 1:9 or so. Just waiting for someone to continue to insist "we haven't got the players...unlucky...Paris...Estonia" so we can renew the persistent argument of the last year.
I hate this criticism. We got to a championship. Only two Irish managers have done that before. I hate that we did so badly at the Euros but it was a huge achievement just to get there.

[NeverFeltBetter]

This is a pretty circular argument at this point, but I refuse to simply forget about the absolutely awful performance in Poland on the grounds that getting there should have been considered victory enough (what, beating Estonia?). Ireland could have, and should have done better in that tournament and Trap rightfully takes his share of the blame for that.

[SwanVsDalton]

This is a pretty circular argument at this point, but I refuse to simply forget about the absolutely awful performance in Poland on the grounds that getting there should have been considered victory enough (what, beating Estonia?). Ireland could have, and should have done better in that tournament and Trap rightfully takes his share of the blame for that.

We could've done better but it would've went as far as scoring a couple more goals and conceding a couple less - even under a manager far more flexible and go-forward than Trap.

[Charlie Darwin]

This is a pretty circular argument at this point, but I refuse to simply forget about the absolutely awful performance in Poland on the grounds that getting there should have been considered victory enough (what, beating Estonia?). Ireland could have, and should have done better in that tournament and Trap rightfully takes his share of the blame for that.
I don't see why it's circular. We got probably the worst group a minnow has got at a European Championship in years. We got the two finalists plus a team that easily could have won it too.

[centre mid]

The most frustrating thing is that we are now in limbo, Trap wont go he will have to be pushed, FAI wont push (unless O'Brien divvies up), so we could possibly have the ridiculous situation where we will have to play out meaningless games in a potentially poisonous atmosphere.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Circular in that its all been said before. Neither of us is going to convince the other.

The only question for me now is whether it is better to release Trap this week or hold onto him until the end of the group phase. I assume there would be a financial aspect to the decision, but I would think its better for the team to start over as soon as possible.

[centre mid]

FAI press conference in Dublin cancelled tomorrow, board to meet in the coming days to discuss recent results http://www.fai.ie/international/103515-fai-press-statement.html

[SwanVsDalton]

The most frustrating thing is that we are now in limbo, Trap wont go he will have to be pushed, FAI wont push (unless O'Brien divvies up), so we could possibly have the ridiculous situation where we will have to play out meaningless games in a potentially poisonous atmosphere.

In full-out farce mode, Trap should pull out all the stops and recall Gibson, Stokes, Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Andy Keogh and start them in a 4-6 formation with Wes Hoolahan.

[Charlie Darwin]

When was the last time we lost two consecutive qualifiers?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Germany and Cyprus under Stan I think.

[tricky_colour]

When was the last time we lost two consecutive qualifiers?

About a couple of hours ago!!! :p

[Grafter]

Germany and Cyprus under Stan I think.

Speaking of Stan, compare his 18 months in charge to Chris Coleman's 18 months in charge of Wales and Stan looks like a genius. Nevertheless Coleman is apparently going to be offered a new contract, proof that the FAI are a little better with their business than the FAW IMO

[gastric]

It's got that sad, people are now talking about Stan in a near sentimental way! Trap really has to go now.

[pineapple stu]

I thought we were OK for 60 mins and with a bit more craft in the middle could have snuck one.
Ditto, but for the first 15 rather than the first 60. Same as v Sweden. We start well, but don't have another gear to move up to. Opposition susses us out, soaks up pressure, wins. So predictable


We're heading for 14 points at best from this group. Worst in how long?
Euro 92 (8 points) probably isn't the answer you're looking for. 1986 under Hand I suppose.

Fourth place is definitely our worst finish since Kerr (which is a bit harsh as we were an Henry goal away from joint first, though I'm of the ilk that thinks Kerr has a lot of blame to take for that campaign). Even Stan managed third (just).

Not a single, solitary shot on target. At all. Awful, awful, dreadful, dire stuff. And yet the sad thing is that even if Trap goes (and I think he has to now; we're clearly going backwards), who's coming through playerwise? Down the pub, John83 made the point that we're missing Duff, Given, Andrews, Doyle and Gibson. Dunne has been injured for a long time. It's a lot of players to miss.

Worse is that we've nobody really coming through. We can't score goals (Cox and Walters are the fourth-top scorers in the squad with 4; there's no-one on 3 and only Whelan on 2). None of the u-21 names ring a particular bell bar Duffy (that may well be a reflection on me obviously) They still can't score goals. Trap has a point in that we don't have a proper (professional) league to dip into; barstoolers take a bow there.

While I think Trap has to move on, we're potentially in for a Scotland-esque period in the doldrums. Not looking good. But maybe another manager can get a team that'll get a ****ing shot on target.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is a Scotland-esque period in the doldrums so bad? They've now hired a manager who is prepared to take bad results in order to turn the team around in the long run. My worry is that we'll settle for a manager who is pragmatic and tries to get results without taking a long-term view and playing a system that is transferable and that players can buy into.

[geysir]

That's pretty much what Brady was saying, there are not the players coming through, doldrums etc etc. Scotland , Wales doom years etc

I'd more go with Dunphy's take, that there isn't that much ground to claw back against Sweden and Austria, make that the target.
And as Giles says, the place to start is with the manager's philosophy and picking the best players to put it on the pitch.
Players coming through is an unknown and not anything we can control.

[harry crumb]

Player Ratings

Forde 6 hard to fault for goal and kicking was in the main decent
Coleman 7 Ball of energy. His darting runs will be a huge asset under new manager.
Dunne 4 Looked cumbersome and distribution poor
O’Shea 5 Was doing well before injury
Wilson 5 Mixed the bad with the good
Pilkington 6 Started well and looks a good addition to the squad
Green 6 Limited in possession but was always busy
McCarthy 6 Struggled to cope with the 3v2 in the middle as the game went on.
Walters 4 Played like a player out of position
Keane 4 Lively early on but anonymous by 60 mins.
Long 6 Austrians struggled to cope with him but as the game went on he became a lone ranger.

Clark 5 Slotted in well for O’Shea.
McClean 5 A like for like sub. On back foot mostly.
Sammon 4 Summed up Traps tactics over the last 5 years.

[texidub]

Emigration, recession, and low seeding for the next xchampionships.. it's like the early-to-mid 80s all over again. :(

What's Jack Charlton doing?

[Fixer82]

Emigration, recession, and low seeding for the next xchampionships.. it's like the early-to-mid 80s all over again. :(

What's Jack Charlton doing?

Fishing and the after-dinner circuit, but mainly the former

[tricky_colour]

We need a new modern manager, one who plays the passing game.
Look at Liverpool, they got in Brendan Rodgers to do that.
At first the results were bad, but they stuck with him, and look where they are now, top of the league.
Their 5th straight Premiership win if you include last season.
OK early days yet but I felt confident enough to put 50p at 12-1 on them winning the Premiership!!
I also note I can get 15,000-1 on Crystal Place winning the league, a mere £70 would make me a millionaire there!!! Hmmm....

[texidub]

Watching the the post-match stuff on RTE website and Brady is so disrespectful towards the current squad that I wonder whether he is (possibly inadvertently) putting himself in a position that if he does get offered the job, he will encounter (understandable) negative reaction from the players?

Or is he deliberately talking himself out of the job by being so critical of the standard of players (rather than tactics or selection) that he won't even be asked?

Great player, but he is way too harsh on the squad.. his loyalties were more to Trap than the Ireland players tonight.

Whatever it was.. I didn't like Brady's dismissive attitude at all.

[pineapple stu]

Is a Scotland-esque period in the doldrums so bad? They've now hired a manager who is prepared to take bad results in order to turn the team around in the long run.
Well, 16 years since they've qualified for anything (France 98). Now they can beat Macedonia away.

So for us, it's two years down, 14 to go before we hire that manager. Yeah, that's bad!

[Stuttgart88]

Macedonia 1 Scotland 2

Croatia 0 Scotland 1 wasn't bad either

[shakermaker1982]

Get Fergie in!

It's a shame the FAI didn't listen to the fans who wanted him gone after 2012. We could all see the writing was on the wall so now we've wasted a whole campaign to finish 4th.

[jbyrne]

Get Fergie in!

It's a shame the FAI didn't listen to the fans who wanted him gone after 2012. We could all see the writing was on the wall so now we've wasted a whole campaign to finish 4th.

with trap introducing coleman, mccarthy, wilson, pilkington, mcclean etc to qualification football since the euros id say it wasnt a whole campaign wasted.
not a chance ferguson would take the job. not a chance

[barney]

We need a new modern manager, one who plays the passing game.
Look at Liverpool, they got in Brendan Rodgers to do that.
At first the results were bad, but they stuck with him, and look where they are now, top of the league.
Their 5th straight Premiership win if you include last season.
OK early days yet but I felt confident enough to put 50p at 12-1 on them winning the Premiership!!
I also note I can get 15,000-1 on Crystal Place winning the league, a mere £70 would make me a millionaire there!!! Hmmm....

I'm not sure what a "new modern" manager is but a new manager is not going to be the "silver bullet" solution some people seem to think he'll be.

Yes we can be better than we are, which is why Trap's time is up, but Brady's point last night is well made. We had Duff, Keane, Given, O'Shea, Dunne etc. at their peak under Kerr and Stan and didn't qualify for anything. The players coming behind are not nearly as good. We have a serious lack of quality - the worst in my lifetime. A manager can only do so much. Trap has had his go, done a decent job and it is time to go. But what do we think is success for a new manager? If the minimum requirement is qualification then we're likely to be back in this position in a couple of years.

And don't let the first three games of the season fool you. While Rodgers is doing a decent job, Liverpool won't finish top 4 this year and he hasn't brought them that far yet since King Kenny.

[Stuttgart88]

I think qualification shouldn't be the official target. Stiff targets often have unintended consequences. In the UK the national education target is XX% of students getting a minimum of C grades. It's intuitively sensible. They're hitting that target but at the expense of students who get better than C grades and who now get no attention and are doing worse.

My point is that a qualification target is more likely to encourage more conservatism. It's also too narrow a focus.

Just hire a good manager and let him do his best. Tell him that he is expected to attend games, interact with the U21 and U19 coaches and generally help promote the game across the country.