Sadlier in today's Indo

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Interesting piece by Richie Sadlier in today's Indo.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/domestic-game-faces-overhaul-or-extinction-29507775.html

Excerpt:


The League of Ireland means a great deal to the people involved in it but they are getting fewer and fewer in number. Jeering those who choose to watch better players at foreign clubs playing superior football only makes League of Ireland fans sound like the kind of people most football fans would like to avoid. This opening weekend of the Premier League is an occasion of significance in the lives of the majority of Irish football fans. No date in the domestic calendar comes close.


The changes that might work would require a complete overhaul, the surrendering of power bases and the ending of petty rivalries. A franchised league controlled by the FAI with two clubs in Dublin and another eight to ten in cities and towns across the country could provide something people want to watch. Players could be centrally contracted and transfer fees from sales to foreign clubs would work much as they do in MLS (http://searchtopics.independent.ie/topic/Major_League_Soccer) with the money divided between the club and the league itself. Ultimately, the best young players in the country will gravitate towards the academies of these clubs.


These proposals were put to me last week and I believe they are worth exploring. However, the number of people who consider themselves to be powerful figures in the domestic game affected by them probably means they will never even be discussed. Yet radical change is needed or the League of Ireland will, in time, limp over the abyss.



Discuss!

[NeverFeltBetter]

Is he really advocating the expulsion of three of the Dublin clubs?

[holidaysong]

Louth United 'til I die!

[White Horse]

What does Bernie Madodff think?

[jinxy lilywhite]

i believe that the league is in a dire state and that an open discussion should take place in how the league can rebrand itself and try to attempt to move forward. however I don't believe that there should be pre conditions to how some people want the league to unfold like 2 teams in Dublin.

something new needs to be done and I believe an open discussion should take place involving all stakeholders

[ArdeeBhoy]

Louth United 'til I die!

Ironically that concept vaguely appeals.

​Runs...

[ped_ped]

Not sure what's so interesting about this article. What it's proposing has been touted time and time again. It's ripping the soul out of the league. These are clubs, not 'franchises.'

[Kiki Balboa]

Its disappointing to hear Sadlier talk such tripe. Clubs have become the scapegoat for those outside LOI to criticize the domestic game. Dont get me wrong, clubs can and should do more, but, realistically what is the most a club can do ? Taken Sligo as an example as a club who has done it right off the pitch, add 1000 to a game ? A good return, but in the grand scheme of things not a massive difference. He blames clubs for complaining about the FAI and that they should fix the league format themselves, and than notes that each club only looks after themselves, which of course they will, because if they don't extinction is a real possibility. I don't get the responsibility Sadiler expects from the FAI for the league, if clubs should sort it out.

As for his suggestions for a radical overhaul, what if this is done and fails?? We will be left with nothing. Franchises ? Its a sporting league, teams should earn their spot in the top league on the pitch, not off it. Setting up franchises means we might have lost Sligo or Dundalk. The league is already a high standered (not EPL, but still ) for people to watch if they were going to watch.

Its just a negative article, and has been written by many writers recently. Never mind Bohs and Dundalk had great crowds over the weekend and that there are many positives this season like competitiveness at top and bottom, with all mid-table (Limerick, cork drogheda) teams looking to move up next season. Nevermind a Club near extinction last season has battled back. Just focus on the negative.

No need for a revolution, if we were just able to hold onto the good tings about the league without starting from scratch we can build. It just needs direction and protection from a governing source. RANT OVER

[Nesta99]

Im sure Richie would have no problem endorsing 2 Dublin club franchises even if St Pats aren't one of them!

[Charlie Darwin]

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

In case I didn't make myself clear...

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

[Trainee]

I would love to see a rule where are clubs playing in the league are supporter owned Co Ops. We can dream of fancy ways of re branding of the league unless the Irish media buy into it will struggle to attract new fans to games. How hard is for a radio station on a Friday to read out the fixtures, RTE today and end of Sunday game said sport on RTE this week and listed all they have on but forgot about MNS.

if I remember wright Didn't FAI give money off International games, in return RTE have to show MNS and they were meant to increase their live games each year and this year they were meant to a live game every week

[abcd]

You really have to wonder where the league will be in another few years. I don't agree with the franchise element but you have to wonder how things will ever be sustainable if things continue to trundle along as they are. In fairness, most teams have become more realistic but the debts hanging over some teams with minimal income coming in is scary. Sligo, Dundalk, Limerick and Athlone have been success stories recently and hopefully it continues for them but you'd wonder. There are so many teams in dire straits throughout the league that it'll only take something small to put the final nail in the coffin. FAI money is if anything going to decrease further and European prospects look bleak so the clubs need to be honest about where revenue can be generated. Teams have gone out of business and come back in some shape or form and everyone has continued on but there's only so many body blows the league can take in terms of its credibility and in terms of going to the public looking for support. If your club has gone out of business and re-formed with no significant punishment having paid my business 10c (at best) for every €1 you owe me I won't be too inclined to be singing your praises.

[nigel-harps1954]

Jesus christ..it's been done here a million times.

There's only one thing that'll improve this league, infrastructure, teams, fans, and everything associated with League of Ireland football, and that is a whole heap of money. It's one thing we don't have, and we won't get unless there's some sort of unusual takeover of things on a Sky Sports Premier League type basis.

Unless some massive billionaire comes in and decides to pump money into improving Irish football, we'll remain exactly as we are.

[Eminence Grise]

Hard to take Sadlier's article seriously....

No mention of a pyramid! :D

Reading into the last paragraph, it's pretty clear that he's flying a kite for somebody. But who? Frank And Irene never seemed interested in a Franchised And Integrated system....

[NeverFeltBetter]

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

In case I didn't make myself clear...

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

In my head, it was this, with Nick Leeson's name subbed in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJPE2h3uyOc

[Dodge]

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

In case I didn't make myself clear...

He interviewed Nick Leeson.

Co-incidently the last two people to employ Jeff Kenna as manager (only two...).

ON that reason alone their opinion should be discarded

[Strongbow10]

Co-incidently the last two people to employ Jeff Kenna as manager (only two...).

ON that reason alone their opinion should be discarded


Its sad to see such negativity against such radical ideas. The league will no doubt limp along and we'll celebrate 1500 going to watch Athlone Town and the likes but this just shows how low expectations are.

People in Ireland have absolutely no interest in watching sport that is not hyped to the hilt. The LOI will never have this appeal to the masses beyond the hardcore support.

In the absence of money, the powers that be need to tap into the "local" element. Target the areas where there are big catchment areas. Run the league on an all-ireland basis even. Sure, the idea of Louth United may be repulsive to Dundalk and Drogs fans but if its a matter of pooling resources in order to survive and push on or else either club eventually going out of business due to lack of finances/interest, then you simply have to try something new.

Westmeath GAA can attract far bigger crowds than both midland LOI clubs combined, and that would be for lousy GAA league fixtures. Without a billionaire to pump in millions (without expections of making a return), the league is threading water and will do so for infinity unfortunately.

Start from the top down, an investment in making sure you have a huge number of UEFA pro licence coaches. Upgrade facilities where possible. Facilities are not even the problem, the best players develop in worse surroundings. But they need to be nurtured. The real challenge is to get a handle on the DDSL schoolboy clubs who simply farm our players in the hands of UK clubs to make profit.

We need to provide the best young irish players with an alternative, staying in Ireland until at least 21. And making sure that by doing so they will be receiving a far higher level of coaching than they would have expected. Coaching and development that is the equivalent of what they would receive should they move when they are 15-16.

In turn, the LOI will improve with the cream of irish talent rather than relying on (and this will sound harsh) journeymen who didn't cut it in England and lads who were never at the level to make it in the UK.

With a better base of players, the standard rises. With better coaching hopefully the quality of manager rises also. Its a merry go round here right now with the same managers having managed a host of their rivals clubs.

European football would provide our "cream of the crop" to develop rather than sitting in the Wolves reserves at 19. You would be very surprised at how quickly the hipsters would catch on if young irish lads were getting mentioned abroad as being massive talents yet still operated at home. Look at the Belgian league for example, it gets so much attention right now for being a breeding ground for top class talent, you hear lads at work telling you all about the next big thing playing for Anderlecht and Standard Liege etc...

Keeping all of our best players (or providing them with a chance to avail of first team football and top level coaching in their formative years) may just make some of them see they dont need to move so soon. The big money move will still be there when they hit their early 20s. Transfer fees will also improve and we won't see them shambles of the likes of Cherry Orchard/St Kevins Boys holding the transfer record for biggest fee ever received on the island.

There are other smaller issues (larger isssues from a political standpoint) and this will cause alot of controversy, but maybe special work permits can be issued to exceptionally talented players from non EU countries. The LOI could be a gateway to the bigger leagues for some Brazilian's/Argentinians/American's/etc... who are not eligible for a work permit in the UK? maybe after 3 years they are eligible for Irish passports if extremely stringent conditions are met, and I stress the number of these players should be limited to maybe 3 per club. Young irish players may benefit from playing alongside such talent also and may even eclipse such players in terms of talent.

There are so many avenues to explore in terms of tapping into the appetite of people for football in ireland. My fear though is the lack of creativity, ideas and downright drive and interest to make things better.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I think "franchising" is a disaster of an idea in the making. This isn't like America, where we're starting out from scratch with nothing but new markets to build on. I in no way believe that entities like "Louth United" would be more successful than the likes of Drogs and Dundalk separately, especially as its creation would alienate a large portion of both clubs' fanbase.

If we're being negative, it's because Sadlier ideas are poor, as his choice of interview subject.

[fieldofmarkets]

The IRFU managed to get an income tax rebate scheme in place for very well paid rugby players to protect and develop the strength of the pro game in Ireland. How about a similar scheme for football semi pros and pros. Have not done any sums but I wonder if the entire scheme might be cheaper on the state than one rugby player. Would not be a silver bullet but should slow down the flood of kids abroad and incrementally improve the standard on the field....and correspondingly everything else.

[placid casual]

Shamrock Rovers
Sligo
Cork City
Derry City
Louth Utd
Kerry unknowns(?)
Midlands fc
Dublin City United
St Patricks
Galway athletic.

piece of pi$$.
put small town bitterness & rivalry aside and embrace the future

[White Horse]

I think "franchising" is a disaster of an idea in the making. This isn't like America, where we're starting out from scratch with nothing but new markets to build on. I in no way believe that entities like "Louth United" would be more successful than the likes of Drogs and Dundalk separately, especially as its creation would alienate a large portion of both clubs' fanbase.


Anyone who thinks that franchises like Louth United, Shamrock Athletic, Northside United etc will be embraced and be successful knows nothing about football.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I see Limerick has no place in the future. Guess I'll just go and support Kerry then. Oh wait, no I won't.

I kid, but such things are an issue. Franchising will inevitably exclude parts of the existing fanbase.

[pineapple stu]

Reads like a Best of the Best stupid ideas of the past decade.

Make the First Division entirely amateur. Just cos.

LoI fans' inflated sense of self-importance is what's keeping the rest away.

Central contracts, all-Ireland league, Nick Leeson.

The sooner the Indo in general dies and goes away, the better for the country to be honest.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think anyone likes the idea of franchising and the enforced relegation of clubs because they dont fit certain criteria is anathema to most people. But I think Sadlier is probably right to draw attention to entrenched vested interests resisting change. It's a problem throughout the whole, eh, pyramid(!).

He does appear to be flying a kite for someone but at the same time all he is saying is that this or that could work.

I think sensible proposals to make the League more meaningful to the public, and hence commercially more successful, should be listened to and debated. If anything smacks as an opportunity for personal gain for a few spivs, then this should be a warning sign.

I think Strongbow makes some decent points above, and I understand the FAI has broached the idea of passports etc with the Dept. of Foreign Affairs in the past.

Would alienating some existing fans be a price worth paying to attract a much larger number of new fans? It's a very hypothetical question (who says anything would make domestic football much more popular?) and requires a value judgment. It's clear what side of that judgment most here would come down on. I'm probably less convinced, but it's not slam dunk either way.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If you put the scenario to me, that Limerick would have to merge with some other nearby entity to create a new "franchise" club, or were forced out of the LOI to make room for a new franchise club (as would happen to some clubs under Sadlier's "proposals"), and then told me to go and support this new entity - The South West Golden Gophers or something - I wouldn't be interested. I would be openly hostile to such a suggestion and would consider my club dead and buried, not to be replaced by some artificial concoction.

It's one of the reasons I'm so dismissive of the plans to merge the three clubs in Galway. I can't see how the supporters will suddenly flock to the new entity, unless its just Galway United with the other two as insignificant feeder clubs.

As for new fans - we can't get them to come out in large numbers right now. How will a brand new thing with no history, culture or connection to the area do it?

[sadloserkid]

The South West Golden Gophers

Are you a University of Minnesota guy too by chance?

[Spudulika]

Strongbow strikes the right note about the confused nature when viewing Ireland from within Ireland - "People in Ireland have absolutely no interest in watching sport that is not hyped to the hilt." and then in the next paragraph state "Westmeath GAA can attract far bigger crowds than both midland LOI clubs combined, and that would be for lousy GAA league fixtures." Does that make sense? Yes and Yes, it does.

Richie may like to trawl forums and pick up ideas, but unfortunately, like the Indo in general, the agenda behind the article misses the point through being poorly researched and poorly thought out.

1. Franchising - tried and failed (partially blame the LOI fraternity, FAI, Schoolboy/Junior clubs, economics)
2. A rejigged league means nothing without reform from top to bottom and vice versa.

Apart from those two, the most glaring error, which renders everything he wrote purely Indospeak, is the failure to address the schoolboy question. Why centralise contracts for LOI players and not schoolboys? It can be done, it's legal, but it means Richie's "patrons" won't be getting bunts from UK clubs. So the article is pointless.

Why does GAA have a hold and LOI not? Why does a Junior club in Meath get 500 people out on Tuesday evening when Wexford get less than 200? Stop with the crud about LOI fans sneering (yes it's true, but it goes both ways), about poor facilities, about lack of quality, about media. Ask why when so many people (kids to vets like me) play football each weekend yet LOI clubs couldn't bate them in the gate? It's not rocket science, but it takes more than talking with fellow failed club md's and with make up friends who didn't let you join in their party games.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Spud hits the right note about "patrons getting bunts". I'm all for intelligent ideas about joining up Irish football and improving the domestic elite set-up but anything that plays into the pockets of individual interests has to be met with the deepest suspicion.

The thing that eats me though is that if you were to start from scratch (an advantage MLS & Irish rugby union effectively had) you almost certainly wouldn't configure Irish football the way it currently is. What's the old Irish joke? How do I get to X? I don't know but I wouldn't start from here. At the very least this bring change onto the agenda.

It's not just a problem Irish football is grappling with: English football probably has too many professional clubs, many European countries' leagues are struggling in the globalised TV mega money era, and so on. The traditional way of doing things is under pressure from the modern economic climate (big wages for mediocre talent etc.).

It's interesting that the IRFU faces the risk (big or small I don't know) of England and France creating a structure that isolates or diminishes the Celtic franchises. The current construct may or may not hold. Any radically new football structure could easily unwind if not successful, maybe causing more harm than the good they were intended to introduce.

It strikes me that the conflict between the leading schoolboy clubs and the elite senior clubs is probably what needs to be addressed first and foremost. The FAI needs to join up the game and if Eminence Grice thinks it's funny that a "pyramid" analogy is used, I can live with that!

[Eminence Grise]

You misunderstand, Stutts: I was pointing out that Sadlier's solution didn't include what a lot of us here think is a sensible approach - a pyramid!!!

I'm all for an integrated system rather than the disfunctional parallel system we have. The money-grubbing hocking of young lads to England by some non-league clubs is nothing more than being the middleman in indentured servitude. Could youngsters be better looked after here, playing with a league club till they're 21, going to college, maturing? I'd like to think so.

[NeverFeltBetter]

A pyramid just won't work without more investment than is possible. How could Pike Rovers compete financially in the First Division if they got that far?

[peadar1987]

A pyramid just won't work without more investment than is possible. How could Pike Rovers compete financially in the First Division if they got that far?

The first division would have to change. Probably have it regionalised, and relax stadium criteria. If a club can't prove it can handle the division above financially, they don't get promoted. Simple as!

[nigel-harps1954]

A pyramid just won't work without more investment than is possible. How could Pike Rovers compete financially in the First Division if they got that far?

Pike probably have as much money as most of the teams in the division currently.

If they're as big a club as people claim, then they should be ambitious enough to want to make the step up.

The bigger junior and intermediate clubs should really be looking at applying. The FAI should also be offering places to the bigger clubs, relaxing certain criteria for a few years, relaxing fees, stadium criteria, amongst other things.

The more clubs the better. Ideally, both divisions would have 12 or 14 teams, but its not going to happen.

[sadloserkid]

A pyramid just won't work without more investment than is possible. How could Pike Rovers compete financially in the First Division if they got that far?

If they couldn't compete they'd be relegated and, in an ideal world, find their level over time.


If they're as big a club as people claim, then they should be ambitious enough to want to make the step up.

Why though? Why should Pike's ambition (or that of any other junior club) be determined by fans of senior clubs desperate for more peers? People have castigated Mervue and Salthill for having the gall to try and eat at the top table as it is. Pike, though a great junior club and helpful to Limerick when they were at their lowest, aren't bringing anything to the table that the Galway pair aren't.

You can't force clubs to make the step up and from their point of view there's little incentive to. I would LOVE to see more clubs in the LoI and agree with much of what you've said regarding criteria, fees and the likes but as it stands it is not fair in any way to blame any club for wanting nothing to do with the whole sordid mess.

[Stuttgart88]

You misunderstand, Stutts: I was pointing out that Sadlier's solution didn't include what a lot of us here think is a sensible approach - a pyramid!!!
Sorry, I presumed it was a sarcastic reference to consultant-speak or jargon such as pyramids!

[Strongbow10]

Pike probably have as much money as most of the teams in the division currently.

If they're as big a club as people claim, then they should be ambitious enough to want to make the step up.

The bigger junior and intermediate clubs should really be looking at applying. The FAI should also be offering places to the bigger clubs, relaxing certain criteria for a few years, relaxing fees, stadium criteria, amongst other things.

The more clubs the better. Ideally, both divisions would have 12 or 14 teams, but its not going to happen.

The argument for including the more successful Junior clubs at the elite end of Irish senior football is a short term strategy designed to make up the numbers in my book.

Sure it looks good to have some new names and a bigger geographical spread, but whether we like it or not we need to start afresh in some areas.

How many people will watch Pike Rovers, or Tullamore Town, Mullingar Athletic, Tralee Dynamos in reality?

Will people from Killarney or Dingle travel to watch Tralee play? Bearing in mind they are probably considered to be rivals in the locality.

Kildare County is used as an example of how franchising is done wrong. If the entire football set up was overhauled in Ireland where every Junior club in the surrounding area had fully qualified coaches and all of these junior/underage teams were affiliated with Kildare County and acted as their main feeder then you may see far bigger crowds. Its akin to GAA where the best club players represent the county. Of course, this will be to the ultimate distaste of some.

Everyone is pulling in different directions in Irish football. Old traditions (dare I say it, its traditions of a minority going by the attendance figures post 1970s) die hard.

I completely agree with a previous poster that a handle needs to be taken on schoolboy clubs who are shipping kids to England purely to earn €€€€ and raise their own profile.

Until the LOI starts taking measures to ensure we start seeing the best this country has to offer under the age of 23 in terms of players, then we will go nowhere. The Irish public have absolutely zero interest in watching 2nd rate players, be it journeymen/guys who didn't cut it in the UK. Thats the mindset, "Why should I bother watching this, sure there are better Irish players in the Wolves reserve team".

Top quality coaching (which is only available by trebling the amount of Pro Licence holders in every locality) needs to be available to players staying in Ireland. With the promise of first team football, and even European results will improve along with eventual transfer fees for players who have matured playing a higher level of football at a younger age.

[nigel-harps1954]

Finn Harps were a junior team once.

If a club puts in the effort required, then there should be no problems making the step up.

If Mullingar Athletic really put in an effort, joined the league, advertised properly, and got the local public interested then there's no reason as to why it wouldn't work.

The same goes for every junior/intermediate club.

[eelmonster]

Kildare County, Dublin City and Sporting Land Speculators.

[nigel-harps1954]

Kildare County, Dublin City and Sporting Land Speculators.

Because they were all successful Junior clubs with a base to work off already?

Jesus, it's very simple, those franchises were a waste of space, and will continue to be.

A junior club already has it's roots set, and builds from that.

[TonyD]

Until the LOI starts taking measures to ensure we start seeing the best this country has to offer under the age of 23 in terms of players, then we will go nowhere. The Irish public have absolutely zero interest in watching 2nd rate players, be it journeymen/guys who didn't cut it in the UK. Thats the mindset, "Why should I bother watching this, sure there are better Irish players in the Wolves reserve team".

I'm not sure how true this is. How many Irish Internationals have come through the league in recent seasons ? Did Seamus Coleman add anything to Sligos gate, despite being an obviously talented young player ? Did Kevin Doyle add to Cork, or Pats gates, Keith Fahey at Pats David Forde or James McClean at Derry ? (And remember the reception McClean got when he came on for his debut, from people who mostly wouldn't have had a clue who he was six months beforehand.) Chris Forrestor at Pats is being tipped for great thing at the moment, I haven't been crushed in the stampede to Richmond to see him play.

The reality is that we could have the next Lionel Messi at Pats, or Derry, or Sligo at the moment and people still wouldn't be interested until he gone across the water and legitimised himself. It's sad, but it's the way it is. That's why I've always thought the quality argument is a load of rubbish. Celtic were beaten in Europe tonight (and I know it's only the first leg) by a team who Pats put out two seasons ago. If Kargandy finish the job are all the Celtic fans in Ireland suddenly going to think "Jaysis, Pats must be good after all, think I'll start going to watch them" I think not.

For me the way to attract punters is to inspire a sense of identity with, and ownership of, the team. As to how to do that, well, I never said I have all the answers :(

[eelmonster]

Because they were all successful Junior clubs with a base to work off already?

Jesus, it's very simple, those franchises were a waste of space, and will continue to be.

A junior club already has it's roots set, and builds from that.

Sorry, Nige, that was in reply to the post above yours.

[Strongbow10]

I'm not sure how true this is. How many Irish Internationals have come through the league in recent seasons ? Did Seamus Coleman add anything to Sligos gate, despite being an obviously talented young player ? Did Kevin Doyle add to Cork, or Pats gates, Keith Fahey at Pats David Forde or James McClean at Derry ? (And remember the reception McClean got when he came on for his debut, from people who mostly wouldn't have had a clue who he was six months beforehand.) Chris Forrestor at Pats is being tipped for great thing at the moment, I haven't been crushed in the stampede to Richmond to see him play.

The reality is that we could have the next Lionel Messi at Pats, or Derry, or Sligo at the moment and people still wouldn't be interested until he gone across the water and legitimised himself. It's sad, but it's the way it is. That's why I've always thought the quality argument is a load of rubbish. Celtic were beaten in Europe tonight (and I know it's only the first leg) by a team who Pats put out two seasons ago. If Kargandy finish the job are all the Celtic fans in Ireland suddenly going to think "Jaysis, Pats must be good after all, think I'll start going to watch them" I think not.

For me the way to attract punters is to inspire a sense of identity with, and ownership of, the team. As to how to do that, well, I never said I have all the answers :(

Players like McClean, Long, Fahey, Doyle, Forde will never be in the top bracket of players. They simply went to UK to late. The made good careers for themselves but after making an initial splash, they plateau in terms of develeopment. Their glass ceiling is alot lower so to speak. This is mainly due to the level of coaching received in Ireland in their formative years.

Seamus Coleman is the excpetion, he has the makings of a top quality full back.

Players like this in the LOI are the exception to the rule. Fans know this is the exception to the norm. Lets do something to make this more "the norm". As for fans not paying attention even if there was a young Lionel Messi in our league? Such is the gulf in quality of coaching across the water, all of our top young talent have departed the island by the time they are 16.

I personally know myself that the level of coaching is on another planet over there. And keep in mind the UK is seen as one of the more backward countries in terms of new methods.

We simply need to treble the number of coaches (Pro licence qualified). Build from the very bottom.

My point stands about Junior clubs. Someone mentioned Harps being a Junior club. Whats Harps average attendance or general interest level for the last 15 years? a max attendance (on a good day) of between 500-1000? If people are happy to plod along and call this a success and pander to the minority hardcore support rather than try something new then by all means go for it.

[osarusan]

My point about this is much the same as always - even with the LOI maximising its potential, how would it compare to English football, not only in terms of quality of football, but also facilities, infrastrucutre, training, attendances, stability.

Tranmere Rovers, a middle of the road League 1 team, got average crowds of over 6000 last year. Exeter, middle of League 2, had an average of over 4000.

Does the LOI have the potential to ever compete with clubs even at this level? Will we really to keep our best talent at home for any longer, and if they did stay home, would their training be any better? Would they be better as players for it?

[bennocelt]

Finn Harps were a junior team once.

If a club puts in the effort required, then there should be no problems making the step up.

If Mullingar Athletic really put in an effort, joined the league, advertised properly, and got the local public interested then there's no reason as to why it wouldn't work.

The same goes for every junior/intermediate club.


Well Mullingar town are the town team! Ha:D

[ArdeeBhoy]

The point is (in Eng) ^^^ they have a much bigger population.

And soccer, even allowing for barstoolers/armchair fans, does not even seem the most popular sport in Ireland either? Again unlike its neighbour.

[Sean South]

The league is fine they way it is, stop trying to fix it.

[luiz]

A question: which junior clubs do you think that have a supporting base big enough to enter the League of Ireland? Home Farm's ground is more than good enough for First Division football. I've been to a Glenville X Limerick match and Glenville managed to put a quite decent number of supporters there. I've seen also loads of Sheriff YC shirts around Dublin and there are some other clubs who seem to be getting decent results later (Avondale, for example). I don't know much about the clubs outside Dublin, so, which, if any, could be ready to join the League in a near future? (in case they wanted, of course).

[pineapple stu]

Players like McClean, Long, Fahey, Doyle, Forde will never be in the top bracket of players. They simply went to UK to late.
Is this Keith Fahey who went to England at 15? Or Shane Long who went at 18?

I don't think the likes of Conor Sammon or David Forde made an initial splash and then plateaued; both have been improving consistently in the past few years.

Séamus Coleman isn't an exception; he's proof that your notion that a player can't go from the LoI and become a top, top player is wrong (Kevin Moran and Paul McGrath would be other exceptions). It's hard, of course, but then it's hard to become a top, top player.

[gastric]

In Australia, they did essentially what Sadlier has mooted, picking populated centres where clubs could build support bases and ending years of ethnic tension which has reinvigorated Australian football. There were 8 clubs initially and now there is 10 and two innovations which have helped the league here are a salary cap on clubs and no relegation of clubs which means clubs aren't looking for quick fixes. The biggest difference between here and Ireland is the amount of money that is available to support the franchises.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And a much bigger population...

[Sean South]

a top, top player.
I think you watch too much Sky Sports.