Republic of Ireland V Sweden - Friday, 6th September 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifier

[Grafter]

Happy to see O'Brien reinstated in squad as we are not blessed with defenders playing regularly in EPL. From snippets I heard on radio tonight, there's the usual negative spin from eejits looking for an out of sorts League One "striker" to be included...

[geysir]

Is there no love for Delaney? defender playing at epl level.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be happy for Delaney to be included, but it's a marginal one. Nice if he's in, no biggy if he's out. He has more of the Kevin Moran about him than Darren O'Dea, but if the Germany game is to be used as a stick to beat O'Dea with, I think I could just as easily visualise Delaney getting taken to the cleaners that night too.

McShane, Richard Keogh, Delaney: all similar enough in style and ability but only a need for one of them with the others fit.

[Crosby87]

I wonder if Kevin Doyle is sad.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd be happy for Delaney to be included, but it's a marginal one. Nice if he's in, no biggy if he's out. He has more of the Kevin Moran about him than Darren O'Dea, but if the Germany game is to be used as a stick to beat O'Dea with, I think I could just as easily visualise Delaney getting taken to the cleaners that night too.

McShane, Richard Keogh, Delaney: all similar enough in style and ability but only a need for one of them with the others fit.
We're as well-stocked with centre halves as we've been for probably 15 years. We're faced with the ludicrous situation where Dunne and the Doc are our only Championship defenders, and we can replace any of them with a Premier League player if required.

[DannyInvincible]

How has Alex Pearce been doing this season?

Is Andrews now another forgotten man? He's back from injury, isn't he?

And any word on Fahey finding a new club or what's the story with him at present?

[Charlie Darwin]

Andrews have dropped out of the reckoning since Meyler got promoted but he's also injured again. Fahey is still looking for a club, surprisingly.

[DannyInvincible]

Westwood made some good saves. Should do him the world of good getting the nod ahead of the ex Arsenal keeper.

I'd have been gobsmacked had Di Canio gone with Mannone as his number one. Actually, maybe not, but that's just because he's Di Canio. Mannone was always well down the pecking order at Arsenal, even when they were experiencing chronic keeper problems.

[Grafter]

Can't see Andrews, Fahey, Lawrence having any meaningful involvement with national team again. The team has just moved on... all three did well to amass the number of caps they did relatively late in their careers.

[DannyInvincible]

Lawrence could be playing Champions League football this season if all goes to plan for PAOK on Tuesday night. A 0-0 draw or home victory will see them through.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Lawrence still has something to offer in an Ireland shirt. I think his lack of pace is what counts against him - technically, he's better than most, but like Andy Reid he can't play the energetic game we rely on.

[Grafter]

The Forde versus Westwood conundrum? I think if Forde displays signs of full fitness I'd seriously consider him over Westwood... risk as that may be...
Just the sense of security Forde brought to the number 1 jersey last spring was a real tonic for the team...

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think you can play Forde unless he has at least one game for Milwall under his belt. I think he's a better keeper than Westwood but not so much you can play him cold, the way we would have with Given when he was on the bench at City. I really fear for Given at the moment - I don't think he has ever fully recovered from his shoulder injury, and I'd love to see him go back to the Championship and just play for another couple of years and find some form.

[Grafter]

Yeah Forde needs at least a game and considering Millwall's dodgy start whether Lomas would risk rushing him back to action is questionable. You'd expect something to happen in the next week regarding Given... what I find more interesting is what becomes of Given's teammate young Master Ireland at this juncture in his career?

[Charlie Darwin]

I think Ireland's issue is money. He's too good to play in the Championship but there aren't many Premier League teams, if any, who would take the risk on him. Given is possibly in the same position, but I think if push came to shove Villa would take a bit of a hit on him financially.

[DannyInvincible]

I've always thought of Westwood as being the more agile and dexterous of the two. I can't really explain it... He just looks like how you'd expect a goalkeeper to look; more competent. Perhaps it's the physique. Forde, on the other hand, I've always thought of as looking a bit shaky or unstable, both under the cross and with the ball at his feet, ever since his time at Derry. Those are just my impressions and if I was a defender, I'd be more confident with Westwood behind me than with Forde. To be fair to Forde, however, he continually quashes the prejudicial doubts I have of him with his performances in an Ireland jersey and is deservedly first choice barring injury or lack of game-time.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Is there no love for Delaney? defender playing at epl level.

He's not good enough, as Palace fans will tell you. Though Stutts has a fair point.

SSL will only play with intervention of Lazarus;Dunne would make more sense FFS.

Westwood played well yesterday, hopefully enough? Especially as Forde's injured.

And Doyle has a lot to prove, just in club football, never mind Ireland!

[the doc]

He's not good enough, as Palace fans will tell you. Though Stutts has a fair point.

SSL will only play with intervention of Lazarus;Dunne would make more sense FFS.

Westwood played well yesterday, hopefully enough? Especially as Forde's injured.

And Doyle has a lot to prove, just in club football, never mind Ireland!

Lazarus has just landed in the East Midlands!

[the doc]

We're as well-stocked with centre halves as we've been for probably 15 years. We're faced with the ludicrous situation where Dunne and the Doc are our only Championship defenders, and we can replace any of them with a Premier League player if required.

Wake up and smell the coffee Chazza!
Richie and Sean are better than the Irish CBs currently playing in the over rated Prem.

Only a matter of time before the sky TV over hyped England team consists of Championship players.

[DannyInvincible]

Only a matter of time before the sky TV over hyped England team consists of Championship players.

What sort of Championship personnel would you be expecting to make up future England squads?

[Charlie Darwin]

Wake up and smell the coffee Chazza!
Richie and Sean are better than the Irish CBs currently playing in the over rated Prem.

Only a matter of time before the sky TV over hyped England team consists of Championship players.
That wasn't a slight on you, doc. I think you are good enough to play in the Premier League, as is Dunne. I mean it's been a long time since we've had this much depth of quality in the position.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's a toss-up who's speaking the most rubbish in this thread at this stage...

[geysir]

It's a toss-up who's speaking the most rubbish in this thread at this stage...
A toss-up between you and who else? :)

[the doc]

It's a toss-up who's speaking the most rubbish in this thread at this stage...

I think you get it by a country mile.

We all have opinions.

Lets stay focused on winning the next few games, I want to go to Rio, how about you?

[dr_peepee]

When you consider how Walters has be used, there is an argument for Lawrence to be recalled.

Re Forde, there's definately a capable security about him, and that's about all I'd expect from him TBH. He's not going to pull off the Hollywood save that he's no right to get to.

[ArdeeBhoy]

A toss-up between you and who else? :)
Hardly, though we have a late entry from the North Atlantic...
;)


I think you get it by a country mile.

We all have opinions.

Lets stay focused on winning the next few games, I want to go to Rio, how about you?

Get what? There's opinions and complete drivel (from some, at times). Even Richard Sadlier/Andy Townsend know more FFS.

Brazil would be good, but as about as likely as a goalfest under Trap.

[NeverFeltBetter]

https://twitter.com/andykeogh16/status/371925982099554304 Oh dear.

[DannyInvincible]

Hardly, though we have a late entry from the North Atlantic...

Spouting a load of hot gas, you could say... :p

[DannyInvincible]

https://twitter.com/andykeogh16/status/371925982099554304 Oh dear.

It even drew a response from Gibbo?! Has Trap tried tweeting him?

Keogh's obviously gutted, but sarcasm and the blunt, accusatory hash-tag won't do him any favours. It is a surprise though; Keogh's always been a Trap regular, in provisional squads at least. Had he been left out of any other senior squads of late even? Nevertheless, Trap doesn't owe anyone a guaranteed place. Loyalty to players not meriting selection is something I'd rather not see colour our squad sheets.

[geysir]

Spouting a load of hot gas, you could say... :p
GAS?? you'd all be dead by now.

Spouts steam/water and then only on rare special occasions.

[SwanVsDalton]

Incredible to think Andy has 30 caps - he's pretty unlikely to get any more.

Pretty simple - Trap has often thought of Keogh as an extra wing option. Now he's got McGeady, McClean, Brady and Pilkington - not to mention Walters and Cox to play out there. Moreover he's got a whole bunch of strikers.

That's international football. Just ask Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Stephen Ward, Kevin Doyle etc etc.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Tbf, Trap could be gone after the next 2 games?

[DannyInvincible]

Keogh clarifies his position: https://twitter.com/andykeogh16/status/371944404460007424


Not moaning bout bein left out jus gutted, lot of quality in the squad,maybe after Oman and NY a txt or phone call wud of been courteous !!

It might have been courteous but he's till too expectant. Trap has given Keogh plenty of time and opportunity; there's absolutely no requirement for him to further phone up or text every player he's ever selected in the past to let them know he's not considering them for selection on this occasion.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I am loath to restart something that has been discussed ad nauseum here, but I really dislike the way that players find out these things under Trap. Not getting a place happens, but its good to let players know why, and how they could get a place back.

Instead, another bridge set on fire, if not totally burned just yet.

[DannyInvincible]

I am loath to restart something that has been discussed ad nauseum here, but I really dislike the way that players find out these things under Trap. Not getting a place happens, but its good to let players know why, and how they could get a place back.

Who else should he have texted/phoned? Keith Treacy? Conor Clifford?

[SwanVsDalton]

Tbf, Trap could be gone after the next 2 games?

He could, but I can't seen another manager giving Keogh too many opportunities.


I am loath to restart something that has been discussed ad nauseum here, but I really dislike the way that players find out these things under Trap. Not getting a place happens, but its good to let players know why, and how they could get a place back.

Instead, another bridge set on fire, if not totally burned just yet.

I suspect Trap views this idea with the same kind of incredulous 'this is our job, we're very lucky, we don't have to go down a mine!' style attitude with which he often addresses player gripes.

I'm inclined to agree with you, although how common would it be for an international manager to reach out to dropped players? If Roy Hodgson left out Gareth Barry, say, would he phone him to explain or would he expect the player just to understand that's how things go, and they'll have another look next time?

Game has changed since Trap's time - so many avenues of communication, so many ways to at least just reach out to a player and say 'thanks - but this time you're not there. Next time maybe'. Perhaps that's the modern way now - players are more accustomed to two-way communication and it's not like Trap has to light a candle, grab a quill and scribble an earnest letter. It seems another exhibit in the 'Trap is out of touch' trial.

Still the bottom line is Keogh doesn't deserve to be in the squad and, when it comes to loyalty, Trap has been exceedingly forgiving to a guy who is fairly limited. Bang in a few goals for Millwall and, if he's still out in the cold, have a good old moan then.

[Irwin3]

Don't rate Keogh much myself but I don't think it is too much trouble to inform the couple of players who are dropped that they are not in the next squad.

[pineapple stu]

It might have been courteous but he's till too expectant. Trap has given Keogh plenty of time and opportunity; there's absolutely no requirement for him to further phone up or text every player he's ever selected in the past to let them know he's not considering them for selection on this occasion.
In fairness to Keogh, he played against Wales this month. Bit different to letting Joe Lapira know that he's not getting in the squad again.

[DannyInvincible]

In fairness to Keogh, he played against Wales this month. Bit different to letting Joe Lapira know that he's not getting in the squad again.

Ha, well, Lapira would be at the other end of the extreme, but where exactly would this expectation for the provision of explanations to previously-selected players begin and end?

[Yard of Pace]

Ha, well, Lapira would be at the other end of the extreme, but where exactly would this expectation for the provision of explanations to previously-selected players begin and end?

Well, imo, if you were in the last squad you deserve to be told that you're not in the new one by text at least. It'd take an FAI lackey about 10 minutes to make a list of who is now out and to get a group text thing going to just inform those players that they haven't made it but are still in the manager's thoughts.

[Crosby87]

What does it matter how you find out? You find out when the squad is announced or an hour before in a private phone call? Honestly what is the difference?

[DannyInvincible]

Well, imo, if you were in the last squad you deserve to be told that you're not in the new one by text at least.

Hmm, I suppose that seems like a reasonable cut-off point; if you've not been selected for the current squad after having been selected in the immediate one previous to that.


It'd take an FAI lackey about 10 minutes to make a list of who is now out and to get a group text thing going to just inform those players that they haven't made it but are still in the manager's thoughts.

Will that be the case though? Why bother filling some players with false hope? And won't players expect a personal explanation from Trap? Will a generic text from an FAI automaton actually satisfy them? Judging the tone of Keogh's original tweet, you'd think he was trying to suggest he was an indispensable member of the squad.

[DannyInvincible]

What does it matter how you find out? You find out when the squad is announced or an hour before in a private phone call? Honestly what is the difference?

Courtesy, apparently. Although I'm not sure how well Keogh's demand for courtesy stands up in light of his sarcastic tweet.

[Stuttgart88]

That wasn't a slight on you, doc. I think you are good enough to play in the Premier League, as is Dunne. I mean it's been a long time since we've had this much depth of quality in the position.
When I read your post it struck me that our EPL standard CBs are in the Championship and that, O'Shea excepted, our championship standard CBs are on the EPL.

I think we've a solid enough bunch of CBs but I think it's fair to say we don't have a top class CB at the top of his game anymore.

Re-goalkeepers I'm happy enough with our options. Forde seems to be inspired by the jersey and brings a presence to aerial situations that we haven't had since Bonner in the late 80s, and is tidy enough all round. Westwood is probably a sharper and more agile shot stopper, but looks lost at crosses lately. Maybe that's lack of matches, but it concerns me.

In Gdansk I watched the 3 keepers in their pre match warm ups very closely. Shay had developed an alarming habit of fisting shots that were straight at him, which he repeated for Spain's second ( or third?) goal. Westwood seemed sharpest at getting down to low stingers and Forde seemed slowest down of the 3.

While I think Forde deserves to keep his spot I'd be very cautious about playing a rusty keeper into these games, so it's great for us that Westwood is starting for Sunderland at the moment.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Keogh deserved a polite call on the basis that he was with us for the last few games. 'Sorry Richard, but Dunne is back fit, keep playing well' would have done it. I think the same applies to anyone dropped from a squad but not to anyone expecting a call but who hasn't been involved recently.

Effing twitter though. It gives reason to amplify things beyond their actual importance.

Edit: sorry, I thought it was Richard Keogh! Same principle applies though

[DannyInvincible]

I think Keogh deserved a polite call on the basis that he was with us for the last few games. 'Sorry Richard, but Dunne is back fit, keep playing well' would have done it.

Jaysis, if Trap was going to entertain players like this, he would at least need to be sure he's texting the right Keogh first! Now you see how problematic such a practice could be. :p

[Grafter]

Footballers these days give off such an aura of entitlement and preciousness... man up FFS!

[DannyInvincible]

Remember the media stir after Trap did actually text Kevin Doyle to inform him of his omission from the squad for the previous Sweden and Austria games?: http://balls.ie/football/kevin-doyle-text-message/

[Grafter]

Most of the meedya that will be reporting on Irish team over next fortnight will be GAA heads/rugger buggers with an axe to grind against the "foreign game" and by god they'll take all that crap out on Trappatoni's management. Its already started and squad haven't convened yet!

[Stuttgart88]

Footballers these days give off such an aura of entitlement and preciousness... man up FFS!the problem is Twitter more than the footballers. It gives an outlet for stream-of-consciousness communication and now the media will be all over this as if its some sort of disaster. "Footballer a bit upset but not that much really" is the story here.

Edit: just saw that he was only a late replacement for Wales squad so Keogh must have guessed his place was precarious, in which case he probably is being a bit precious. Then again, as I say, Twitter amplifies things out of all proportion especially when it gives the Irish sports media a reason to take a swipe at our football team.

Some of the comments under the RTE story make foot.ie look like an elite university debating society.