Wales V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 14th August 2013 - Friendly

[Supreme feet]

Why is it irrelevant that they don't play in the Top 4 ? Look at the English squad. Awash with Top 4 players and they have achieved what.? I am not sure where you get the 2nd/3rd best league in the world? You put a bottom half English team against a bottom half Spanish, French, Italian or German team and I'd know where my money would be. Who has disputed that we are an average team ? The point is that we have over achieved in our qualification campaigns to-date as an average European team. Why people thought an average team would beat 3 of the top 8 teams in the World at Euro 2012 still amazes me.

I still think it is too soon to put Robbie Keane out to grass. I just don't see goals without Robbie in the side. Why he would want to change the successful 4-4-2 system away from home I am not sure with our record away? Something else is desperately needed at home ok. Perhaps this formation is the solution.

I think POS's point is that our player pool isn't necessarily as bad as it's made out to be. Some people think it's some kind of miracle that we can beat 5th seeded teams with such a collection of rag-tag, second-tier journeymen. Some people are disappointed that, with a core of proven EPL players, we can't compete against big teams like we did under McCarthy. It's somewhere between those two statements, really. Sweden are a renowned European team who qualify for almost every tournament. They have regular starters from Celtic, West Brom, Sunderland, Fulham and Norwich. Their central striker against us was a failure at Sunderland and plays for IFK Gothenburg. It's not just Irish players who have suffered from the growing gap between 'elite' clubs and their would-be competitors.

That we are an 'average' European team should mean that we are, like Switzerland, Bosnia, Czech Republic, and other third seeds, able to push for play-off spots and be competitive.

Very happy with this team, particularly the formation. It seems that Hoolahan's won the manager over, and that he's looked at the Austria game and decided, after all, that the midfield needs some help if we're going to compete in September. Though Keane will surely play that 'floating' role against Sweden if fit.

[tricky_colour]

Why is it irrelevant that they don't play in the Top 4 ? Look at the English squad. Awash with Top 4 players and they have achieved what.? I am not sure where you get the 2nd/3rd best league in the world? You put a bottom half English team against a bottom half Spanish, French, Italian or German team and I'd know where my money would be. Who has disputed that we are an average team ? The point is that we have over achieved in our qualification campaigns to-date as an average European team. Why people thought an average team would beat 3 of the top 8 teams in the World at Euro 2012 still amazes me.

I still think it is too soon to put Robbie Keane out to grass. I just don't see goals without Robbie in the side. Why he would want to change the successful 4-4-2 system away from home I am not sure with our record away? Something else is desperately needed at home ok. Perhaps this formation is the solution.


I am hoping somebody like Madden can step up to the plate. 23 goals last season, albeit at a lower level, he has not been scoring so many of
late, but I have still backed him to score the last goal at 8-1. Just hope he gets on the pitch lol.

[bwagner]

Im stock un France guys,any links to thé game

[DannyInvincible]

Im stock un France guys,any links to thé game

Has your predictive text function also gone Francophone as a result?

Plenty of links should appear on these sites later in the day:

http://www.footballstreaming.info/streams/todays-links/index.html
http://www.lshunter.net/
http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.php?part=sports&discipline=football

[gastric]

A realistic and valid article about the game by Stephen Reid.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/steven-reid-this-is-a-game-nobody-wants-29497300.html

[Crosby87]

Pretty obvious. He didn't like getting hurt in a meaningless friendly?? No way!

[Sullivinho]

To be fair, if you're Steven Reid, the simple act of tending to an itch must be thoughtfully considered in terms of avoiding injury. Nevermind participating in an international friendly.

[bwagner]

Merci Danny now all i have to do is hide from thé in laws

[jbyrne]

Pretty decent first 11, the fools who come on and say we are made up of a championship team, can eat their humble pie now. We are an average European team at least, made up of players from the 2nd/3rd best league in the world. Its irrelevant that they dont play in the top 4. We are not a world power house.


the 10 premiership players picked tonight currently playing in the EPL are pretty much all we have there and of those probably 3 or 4 will be on the bench for their clubs this weekend. take a few out with injuries etc and its then that our lack of real quality in reserve that kills us. we also currently have no real stars in the positions that count that can get us over the qualification line.

yes we are an average european team which would place us somewhere between 18th and 36th of the 54 countries competing. only 16 are in the euros and even less in the wc. kinda illustrates that we are performing where we should be by getting to play-offs and ahead of where we should be by qualifying. its only when we dont get near the play offs that you can argue we are underachieving. fair play to the manager and players after all it appears so

[Stuttgart88]

On holiday in rainy Sweden so will miss this one unfortunately. Happy with the selection. I think Owls Fan misunderstood Paul's point.

7 or 8 new faces since Poland 14 months ago, and some of these are genuinely exciting prospects and/or positive additions. I hope it all clicks and the likes of Brady and Wes make themselves certain starters next month.

[DannyInvincible]

Working stream here: http://www.coolsport.tv/skysports1.html

[DannyInvincible]

The new international season kicks off tonight, apparently.

[DannyInvincible]

Ha, unbelievable. The band launches into a second rendition of Amhrán na bhFiann as the Welsh team stand to attention for their anthem before coming to an abrupt halt after the first line.

[tricky_colour]

Ha, unbelievable. The band launches into a second rendition of Amhrán na bhFiann as the Welsh team stand to attention for their anthem before coming to an abrupt halt after the first line.


Don't think anyone in the crowd will be offended given there isn't one.

[DannyInvincible]

Not a bad start from us. We're playing some good possession football for a change.

[DannyInvincible]

Don't think anyone on the crowd will be offended given there isn't one.

Think it's just a few Irish fans over; most likely done for their benefit. :p

[tricky_colour]

Think it's just a few Irish fans over; most likely done for their benefit. :p

You are probably right actually bet there are more Irish there than Welsh.

[DannyInvincible]

Terrible finish by Long. Really should have scored that. He was under no pressure whatsoever and the ball didn't come at him that quickly.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bit of a poor match, not much urgency from either side. Hoolahan hasn't played his way into the manager's heart, Brady has leapfrogged McClean and may even make the opposite win to McGeady his own.

[Closed Account]

Pre season friendly air about it. McClean coming on for Brady. Would like to see Hendrick get half an hour.

[Closed Account]

O'Dea and Green for O'Shea and Whelan

[tricky_colour]

Need to get Madden on, I have money on him to score last goal!!!

[tricky_colour]

yes here comes Madden, they heard me!!

[tricky_colour]

dam that was Madden the £8 winnings flashed before my eyes

[tricky_colour]

and again

[DannyInvincible]

We've been very wasteful in front of goal.

[Closed Account]

N Ireland 1-0 Russia, that's some result. Well done.

[tricky_colour]

Madden had 2 good shots when he was on and a very difficult volley.
Use debute I'd say. Long had the worst miss IIRC.

[Charlie Darwin]

dam that was Madden the £8 winnings flashed before my eyes
I really would miss your betting sagas if you were ever to leave us.

[Razors left peg]

Biggest thing learned from tonight is that we better hope that Robbie Keane plays until hes 50, we dont have another finisher.

[Grafter]

Biggest thing learned from tonight is that we better hope that Robbie Keane plays until hes 50, we dont have another finisher.

Shane Long's smiled after he missed a sitter against Georgia and did the same tonight - really annoys me when he looks so nonchalant after missing a chance..... perhaps he's too busy chewing gum to focus?
Eye of the Tiger Shane, Eye of the Bloomin' Tiger!

[tricky_colour]

Biggest thing learned from tonight is that we better hope that Robbie Keane plays until hes 50, we dont have another finisher.

I disagree, I think we do have another finisher, Paddy Madden, you do not rack up the number of goals he got last season if you can't
finish. I have high hopes for him.
Some highlights here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a46HmFy6A80
I think that demonstrates his finishing skill, the ball was a bit behind him but he still got in a good low shot which bounced in front of the keeper and needed a good save (which the keeper could not hold). Would Robbie have done any better?
I though he had another shot but it seems it was a replay.
If he can step up to the mark I think we will be fine, if he can't we will be pushing Robbie on in a wheelchair. (should give him an extra yard of pace ;) )

Had he been on 15 minutes earlier I think I would have been collecting on my bet.

[Uncle_Joe]

Im starting to think that the arguement of whether to play Long or Keane depends on the quality of the opposition. There is a case to be made for starting Keane against lesser oppostion and Long against stronger teams, as odd as that sounds.
WRT the chance Long had tonight, when he was thru one on one with the keeper and toe poked a shot as a the defending welsh tackle came in, Robbie would have bide his time, let the tackle come in and taken the penalty. Robbie is a smart guy and knows how to outsmart lesser players but I think that better players can deal more comfortably with his movement and pace. Long on the other hand seems to get stuck in a bit more and unsettle players with his presence. Lower ability players might be able to handle this more physical approach, but more seasoned players can get unstuck by the combination of his physicality, pace and skill.

Im not saying that Robbie is only good for lower level teams, his records proves otherwise, but for some reason I feel we are more likely to get a few goals against lower ranked teams with him in the team than Long. On the other side I feel that we are more likely to upset higher ranked teams with Long leading than line, throwing himself around, using his pace and his instinct as shown against England with his goal in Wembly.

[Charlie Darwin]

Finishing in League One level and at international level are very different things. I really wouldn't rush Madden - he will be a terrific player but he will learn a lot in the Championship.


WRT the chance Long had tonight, when he was thru one on one with the keeper and toe poked a shot as a the defending welsh tackle came in, Robbie would have bide his time, let the tackle come in and taken the penalty. Robbie is a smart guy and knows how to outsmart lesser players but I think that better players can deal more comfortably with his movement and pace.
Ashley Williams (unless it was Ricketts, in which case I'm mistaken) is hardly a lesser player. He's probably good enough to play Champions League. Robbie would have put that shot either side of the goalkeeper and, if he hadn't converted, would have taken the foul anyway. Long just doesn't have Keane's goalscoring ability.

[Crosby87]

Trap Ok with it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23704966

[Cymro]

All in all you deserved to win. Long had two good chances and to be honest he's normally quite a keen finisher for his club so I'm surprised he missed them. It was a poor display from our point of view. What really got me was the suicidal passing around at the back. We did that against Croatia too so it may actually be Coleman telling them to do it. I really can't fathom why as when you do it that often it becomes utterly predictable, and, as happened tonight, the opposition presses you and inevitably you make mistakes. I swear, at one point I thought we were deliberately trying to lose the game. Thank God for Ashley Williams who was superb as is he always is for Swansea. That block he made about 5 minutes from time was unreal.

Up front we struggled to create much, but that was because when we had the ball there was normally at least 9 dark green shirts behind the ball. You are clearly well organised and that is down to Trappatoni in my view. If a manager can do anything it's organise a team and make sure they know how to defend as a unit, and that everyone knows their jobs. A manager can't legislate for abysmal finishing like Madden and Long tonight, so if that is in any way typical of your finishing then it's easy to see why you keep drawing games. Though I haven't watched many of your qualifiers, admittedly. Either way I'd gladly take Trappatoni as manager any day of the week.

Going back to Wales, there were one or two bright spots for us, as I said Ashley Williams had a good game and was deservedly MoM, and Myhill made some good saves. Jonathan Williams showed some further signs he's going to be a decent player, and Robson-Kanu is improving. But overall a poor performance particularly at the back - Ben Davies, sad to say, is great going forward but like a fish out of water in defence - and to be honest, I don't like our chances in our remaining group games. We will depend on Bale to make us competitive, and if he's not available we will struggle.

[tricky_colour]

Gotta give credit to the Welsh defence particularly Ashley Williams and the Keeper. No surprise Arsenal are apparently interested in
Williams and Swansea want £10 million for him, a decent sum for a defender. I doubt we will be up against anyone better in the
up coming games, certainly hope not anyway.

[Charlie Darwin]

All in all you deserved to win. Long had two good chances and to be honest he's normally quite a keen finisher for his club so I'm surprised he missed them.
He really isn't though. I think this game proved that probably needs 4-5 chances to even register a shot on target. He seems to be one of those players who does better off the bench, when he's observed the opposition's weaknesses and figured out where to go. I think most of his international goals are from substitute appearances.


A manager can't legislate for abysmal finishing like Madden and Long tonight, so if that is in any way typical of your finishing then it's easy to see why you keep drawing games.
To be fair to Madden, that's his first ever international game and he was thrown on with 15 minutes to go. Long is just wasteful and is probably better off making room for another, more clinical striker.

[Cymro]

Gotta give credit to the Welsh defence particularly Ashley Williams and the Keeper. No surprise Arsenal are apparently interested in
Williams and Swansea want £10 million for him, a decent sum for a defender. I doubt we will be up against anyone better in the
up coming games, certainly hope not anyway.

I wouldn't want us to sell for £10m. To be honest, there are two players I would not sell from our team at any price: Michu and Williams. Even looking at it objectively, even for a 28 year old that is not enough. If you consider mediocre players like Henderson fetch £20m, Williams is far more important to us than that. The going rate today is just much higher. Arsenal may bid for him but I hope we don't sell.

[tricky_colour]

Long is better at a long game, running on to balls and hitting teams of the break.

People are not taking Madden seriously enough, he was on only 15 minutes and in that
time he was involved in our 3 best chances.
His assist for Long.
His own shot
And the deflection from that which gave McClean a chance. (OK you might say it was 2 chances really, but I would say 3 chance were there to score).
And I think that was our only 3 shots on target?
Could break Robbie's scoring record.

So if he were on for 90 minutes that could be 3x6=18 chances. Enough for a couple of goals if not 5 or 6.

[Cymro]

Long is better at a long game, running on to balls and hitting teams of the break.

People are not taking Madden seriously enough, he was on only 15 minutes and in that
time he was involved in our 3 best chances.
His assist for Long.
His own shot
And the deflection from that which gave McClean a chance. (OK you might say it was 2 chances really, but I would say 3 chance were there to score).
And I think that was our only 3 shots on target?
Could break Robbie's scoring record.

So if he were on for 90 minutes that could be 3x6=18 chances. Enough for a couple of goals if not 5 or 6.

Except most international teams aren't going to possess colour blindness and literally pass the ball to their opponents deep inside their own half 3-4 times a match.

[Charlie Darwin]

Except most international teams aren't going to possess colour blindness and literally pass the ball to their opponents deep inside their own half 3-4 times a match.
They're not? ****, our game plan is ruined :(

[OwlsFan]

So where are all the 4-5-1 advocates? We played the ball around for the first 20 minutes ok but couldn't muster a shot on goal, in fact a shot at all!! Was "wunderkid" McCarthy playing tonight? Hoolahan was easily knocked off the ball but showed one or two nice touches. Coleman defended well but what happened to his attacking prowess? He seemed to run in to 2 or 3 players and lose possession. Westwood looked fidgety.

All I learned is that as I have been saying to the anti-Keane section for sometime is that without Robbie is that we're like a eunuch in a harem. Lots of promise but no delivery.

So do we stick with 4-5-1 following our 0-0 victory over Wales ? Strangely despite what I said above for the home game yes because we have to try something DIFFERENT at home. How do we fit Robbie in to that system ? That's the conundrum? He doesn't really fit in to that system yet without him scoring is a major issue. I'd stick with 4-4-2 for the away game.

Answers on the back of a postcard please.

[DannyInvincible]

People are not taking Madden seriously enough, he was on only 15 minutes and in that
time he was involved in our 3 best chances.
His assist for Long.
His own shot
And the deflection from that which gave McClean a chance. (OK you might say it was 2 chances really, but I would say 3 chance were there to score).
And I think that was our only 3 shots on target?

You demand others be serious, but then:


Could break Robbie's scoring record.

So if he were on for 90 minutes that could be 3x6=18 chances. Enough for a couple of goals if not 5 or 6.

Whether or not Madden will prove to be of Robbie's standard is one thing, but Robbie's also had a five-year head-start on him on the international goal-scoring front. How many goals did Robbie have for us at the age of 23? 18 or something? He was on the verge of passing Niall Quinn's previous record and went on to break said record at the age of 24.

Irrespective of that, however, I did like the look of Madden. He got himself into the thick of the action immediately and did (help) create (and squander) some dangerous opportunities. Perhaps, had he been a little less enthusiastic in front of goal, he would have gotten his debut goal. Overall, though, it was a very drab affair and Long blowing gilt-edged chances really frustrated me, but I should be used to it by now. Williams and Myhill were also crucial to keeping our tally at zero.


N Ireland 1-0 Russia, that's some result. Well done.

I'd assumed that was just another famous friendly scalp for them until I realised this morning that the game was their re-arranged qualifier. Russia can be hot-and-cold, but still a very impressive result alright. Nice assist from McGinn and Lafferty was lucky not to be sent off towards the end for what was a blatant kick at/trip-up of his opponent:
http://rutube.ru/video/9a59167e938888141096e3db10022841/

Meanwhile, for anyone who missed it, you can catch the highlights of our game here:

http://31.media.tumblr.com/3369be4a24d4f9a4d2a7e4a776e08649/tumblr_mgs1m4Qavk1ro7uigo1_400.gif

[Crosby87]

I suspect Tricky had a couple of shots of vodka and was out late. Give him a pass.

[DeLorean]

WRT the chance Long had tonight, when he was thru one on one with the keeper and toe poked a shot as a the defending welsh tackle came in, Robbie would have bide his time, let the tackle come in and taken the penalty.

Possibly but Long, to be fair, is pretty good at winning penalties himself. Off the top of my head he won penalties against Austria, Arsenal and I think he actually won two on the opening day against Liverpool last season, missing one himself. He should have just finished that chance last night really, it was bouncing perfectly for him and should have been able to put it into the corner.


He really isn't though. I think this game proved that probably needs 4-5 chances to even register a shot on target. He seems to be one of those players who does better off the bench, when he's observed the opposition's weaknesses and figured out where to go. I think most of his international goals are from substitute appearances.

You got me curious so I checked. He has 9 international goals, 5 from starts and 4 from the bench. One of the goals from his starts was that early penalty against Norway. Your theory holds up pretty well I think given you'd expect to score far more goals from games you've started.


Could break Robbie's scoring record.

He'd want to get cracking... Robbie had 18 international goals at the same age :)

[mark12345]

A manager can't legislate for abysmal finishing like Madden and Long tonight, so if that is in any way typical of your finishing then it's easy to see why you keep drawing games. Though I haven't watched many of your qualifiers, admittedly. Either way I'd gladly take Trappatoni as manager any day of the week.

Maybe I woke up in a pessimistic mood on Thursday morning, but as it stands I will be glad to see the back of Trap. He has actually gone up in my eyes in the last couple of months, due to giving one or two fringe players a chance, but when you add it all up his methods are just abysmal. Sure he was a great manager at one time, and I'll give him the allowance that the players he has at his disposal are rather poor to say the least, but his handling of the Ireland situation just irritates to the extreme.

Take the handling of Hoolahan. He should have been in the team years ago and the only reason he's in it now is down to the clamour for his inclusion among the fans and media. Does that bring back memories of James McCarthy? Also take the inclusion of Paddy Madden. I think Trap displayed to everyone that he didn't even know who Paddy was in a recent interview. Now he's playing a few days later. It's almost as if, if you shout loud enough you'll be included. And then of course there's his continued insistence on playing Whelan in midfield.

When Trap eventually does go down in flames, as he surely will when Sweden and Austria take points from us next month, I will have that image of Whelan's name on every team sheet and the sense of frustration I felt every time.

[DannyInvincible]

his handling of the Ireland situation just irritates to the extreme.

The handling of Stephen Ireland, you mean? Or his general handling of the entire national team? I'll assume you're not being melodramatic and go with the former. What's your gripe there?


Take the handling of Hoolahan. He should have been in the team years ago and the only reason he's in it now is down to the clamour for his inclusion among the fans and media.

How many years ago? Anyway, he was in the team years ago. Trap gave him his debut in 2008. He played for the 'B' team in 2007. Trap is stubborn; I think you overplay the influence the fans and media might have on his selections.


Does that bring back memories of James McCarthy?

Not really. What was wrong there? :confused:

[shakermaker1982]

So where are all the 4-5-1 advocates? We played the ball around for the first 20 minutes ok but couldn't muster a shot on goal, in fact a shot at all!! Was "wunderkid" McCarthy playing tonight? Hoolahan was easily knocked off the ball but showed one or two nice touches. Coleman defended well but what happened to his attacking prowess? He seemed to run in to 2 or 3 players and lose possession. Westwood looked fidgety.

All I learned is that as I have been saying to the anti-Keane section for sometime is that without Robbie is that we're like a eunuch in a harem. Lots of promise but no delivery.

So do we stick with 4-5-1 following our 0-0 victory over Wales ? Strangely despite what I said above for the home game yes because we have to try something DIFFERENT at home. How do we fit Robbie in to that system ? That's the conundrum? He doesn't really fit in to that system yet without him scoring is a major issue. I'd stick with 4-4-2 for the away game.

Answers on the back of a postcard please.

Are you seriously slagging a system off after 1 game, not to mention it was an August international so all the players on show last night were more bothered about not getting injured and missing the start of the season for their respective club sides? I imagine advocates of the 4-5-1 (last night was 4-4-1-1) are keen on us using it against teams who are vastly superior to us in skill and ball possession. It would be useful to see how we would fare against Germany/Italy/Russia/Holland etc with a 5 man midfield. That would be the real test of the formation. It won't happen though. It's 4-4-2 for the duation of this campaign.

[Charlie Darwin]

We played Germany with a five man midfield and were 2-0 down after half an hour.