The Actim Index

[tricky_colour]

I just found this index which rates player and gives them a rating.
All the info is on the site, and Henry comes top so they got that bit
right.

http://actim.pa.press.net/top100.shtml

Here are the Irish players (hope I didn't miss any!!)

8 L Carsley Everton 1.29
16 S Carr Newcastle 1.16
33 K Kilbane Everton 1.01 :eek: (yes that much slagged off 'donkey')
40 A O'Brien Newcastle 0.94
42 D Kiely Charlton 0.92 (retired, I know)
52 S Given Newcastle 0.89
60 S Finnan Liverpool 0.86
68 R Keane Man Utd 0.81
94 J O'Shea Man Utd 0.73

So are they all in your starting line-up against France (not #42)?


Obviously Duff too, then Robbie and Morrison?
Holland has been injured of course.

It would be kind of hard to leave out Carsley at no 8 wouldn't it?

Also "Evidence of Manchester United’s return to form comes with Roy Keane’s 37-place rise to 68"

Any comments?

[1MickCollins]

:rolleyes: Maybe the crucial key to what makes a good player is positioning, being at the right place at the right time and doing 'it' when it counts. I don't think a little man in an anorak wearing specs scribbling in a notepad can capture that adequately in tabular form.

[eirebhoy]

:rolleyes: Maybe the crucial key to what makes a good player is positioning, being at the right place at the right time and doing 'it' when it counts. I don't think a little man in an anorak wearing specs scribbling in a notepad can capture that adequately in tabular form.
How accurate is the Actim Index?
The calculations are based on the four key factors that contribute to a player’s effectiveness and his ability to help his team win matches.

The formulae were devised through analysis of hundreds of games since the start of the Premiership in 1992 and have been statistically proven to measure a player’s effectiveness in winning matches.

:)

[tricky_colour]

:rolleyes: Maybe the crucial key to what makes a good player is positioning, being at the right place at the right time and doing 'it' when it counts. I don't think a little man in an anorak wearing specs scribbling in a notepad can capture that adequately in tabular form.

I think you will find all the top scouts ( and managers ) are little men
in anoraks scribbling in a note pads. Alternatively he could ask "Fat Dave"
down the pub what he thinks, as he is always ready to give his opinions
when he has had a few. "Oh yea, and Thierry Henry, he's shyte too......hic "

At least this method has some science to it.

Mind you, they do use the scribblings of little men in anoraks totting
up the goals scored and points won in a game to decide the championship,
bit of a quirky method that, when we all know Leeds were the best side last season :rolleyes:

[1MickCollins]

Looks like I touched on a nerve, good. :D

There are 2 ways of looking at football - as an art or science, you may prefer Germany to Brazil. You cannot represent genius on a silly chart. You cannot represent a player using statistics, I think any manager would agree.

[tricky_colour]

If you are not in the right place at the right time you don't get the ball.
If you don't win tackles you don't get the ball.
If you don't have the ball you cannot pass the ball, go past players,
provide assists, win corners, free-kicks, throw ins or score goals.

All these things are fairly easy to tabulate, and if you are a genius it
will clearly show up in the results, if it doesn't show up in the results
but people still think you are a genius then they are wrong.

Its not art its statistics.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Looks like I touched on a nerve, good. :D

There are 2 ways of looking at football - as an art or science, you may prefer Germany to Brazil. You cannot represent genius on a silly chart. You cannot represent a player using statistics, I think any manager would agree.

Actually Howard Wilkinson won a title for Leeds United using lots of silly charts and statistics. You can argue all you want about the merits of his stewardship thereafter but the fact remains he used devour this stuff and picked teams accordingly.

[eirebhoy]

Looks like I touched on a nerve, good. :D

There are 2 ways of looking at football - as an art or science, you may prefer Germany to Brazil. You cannot represent genius on a silly chart. You cannot represent a player using statistics, I think any manager would agree.
As I said, it is statistically proven that a person at the top of the chart is the most effective player in the premiership.

[Stuttgart88]

Lads , you need to read the following

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140136290/qid=1096464206/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/026-1930211-9036439

Also, whatever happened that Trigger lookalike who managed Cambridge? He employed a mathemetician to analyse all aspects of his game and what happened them?

[tricky_colour]

Statistics can be used to mislead but most liars usually avoid statistics
because they can be analysed by a competent statistian who can
point out any flaws in their presentation.

[1MickCollins]

I'm sure you are not taking these stats seriously - you can reduce a player to a single number? Maybe a 100m sprinter can be reduced to the time they run but come on lets get real here.

How do they take into account the organizers and talkers on the team who give direction and guidance, allowing others to play well? You know as well as I do that on the field leadership is crucial to any team - so a player may rank very highly in one team just because of either the players around him or the coach. One word; simplistic.

[tricky_colour]

I'm sure you are not taking these stats seriously - you can reduce a player to a single number? Maybe a 100m sprinter can be reduced to the time they run but come on lets get real here.

How do they take into account the organizers and talkers on the team who give direction and guidance, allowing others to play well? You know as well as I do that on the field leadership is crucial to any team - so a player may rank very highly in one team just because of either the players around him or the coach. One word; simplistic.


Any how do you assess the rantings of a loud mouth on the pitch?

I remember when I was playing at left back (I am right footed) and
I was giving away a lot of corners (hard for to slide in a tackle with my
left foot), which I became happy to do because their corners were totally
ineffective (due to my great positioning :p ).
Anyway captains advice "Bring him inside and tackle him".
Result, I bring him inside, he passes outside to the leftback who fires
in a low cross which, in my desperate lunge to cut out (from the winger who is about to hammer it home), I turn it into my own net :mad:

Now would that captain get points or being a good talker?

Obviously stats don't telll you everything but everything else is
pretty subjective.


I will pick my team from players in the top 30 and you pick your team
from 70-100 (bottom 30). How much would you put on your team
beating mine? (Probably your mortgage no doubt :rolleyes: )

[Donal81]

Any how do you assess the rantings of a loud mouth on the pitch?

I remember when I was playing at left back (I am right footed) and
I was giving away a lot of corners (hard for to slide in a tackle with my
left foot), which I became happy to do because their corners were totally
ineffective (due to my great positioning :p ).
Anyway captains advice "Bring him inside and tackle him".
Result, I bring him inside, he passes outside to the leftback who fires
in a low cross which, in my desperate lunge to cut out (from the winger who is about to hammer it home), I turn it into my own net :mad:

Now would that captain get points or being a good talker?

Obviously stats don't telll you everything but everything else is
pretty subjective.


I will pick my team from players in the top 30 and you pick your team
from 70-100 (bottom 30). How much would you put on your team
beating mine? (Probably your mortgage no doubt :rolleyes: )

Lads, I think youse are getting a bit out of hand here. Statistics are fine and indicate towards trends but they are not always the final answer, especially not when we're barely a month into the premier league season. Everton, as always, have a great start but everyone knows they'll blow their load and, in time, Keane, Keane and Duff, who are true class, will be doing their thing regularly while the others, Carsley, Kilbane et al, will raise a glance when they score or something. Stats are fine but they should be taken with a pinch of salt and never consumed whole.

[tricky_colour]

They are a good indication as to who is in form.
Carsley is curently the highest ranked Irish player FFS!!
and he is not in the squad!!
Take a look at those rankings and tell me they are vastly
inaccurate! They are not, Keane has returned to better form
recently and it shows up in the rankings because they are
petty accurate.

There are players in the squad who would not make the
top 200 probably!!

Carsley is number 8!!

OK he was no great shakes in the past but if I was a
manager I would *have* to pick him.

Also both Everton and Rooney are doing great since they parted!!

[1MickCollins]

So you are saying that if Kerr picked Carsley on the right hand side of midfield he would not suck as he always did in the past? :confused:

[Schumi]

Take a look at those rankings and tell me they are vastly inaccurate!

Carsley is curently the highest ranked Irish player FFS!!
Carsley a better player than Duff? These rankings are vastly inaccurate!

[Donal81]

They are a good indication as to who is in form.
Carsley is curently the highest ranked Irish player FFS!!
and he is not in the squad!!
Take a look at those rankings and tell me they are vastly
inaccurate! They are not, Keane has returned to better form
recently and it shows up in the rankings because they are
petty accurate.

There are players in the squad who would not make the
top 200 probably!!

Carsley is number 8!!

OK he was no great shakes in the past but if I was a
manager I would *have* to pick him.

Also both Everton and Rooney are doing great since they parted!!

Ok, calm down, you sound like some overheated statistician. Stats are not the end of everything. Carsley may be doing great for Everton but that does not mean that he deserves a place in this squad. He has never performed well for Ireland and has been out of the squad for months at his own request. If you want to make the case for Carsley playing well close to top of the league, fine, and you're completely justified to do so but to base your entire argument on stats is ridiculous, frankly. He's playing well, fine. He hasn't played well for us in the past and this has to be taken into account and this is something your stats seem to ignore.

[eirebhoy]

Carsley a better player than Duff? These rankings are vastly inaccurate!
The rankings rate how much a player contributes to a team, Duff has played one and a half games, he hasn't contributed much.

[eirebhoy]

Everton's centre half, David Weir, backs up Carsley's position:

"Lee does a great job in front of the back four and I would say that in my opinion he’s probably been our best player. He makes things easier for everyone else in the team.

“Every team needs unselfish players Lee. He works tirelessly, and a lot of his work perhaps goes unseen by the fans or the media, but we really appreciate it as his team-mates.”

[Slash/ED]

If football was something you could analyse soley with statistics and computers then my exploits in championship manager would have me managing AC Milan at this stage.

[tricky_colour]

They are past performance, I think you would get a pretty good
team picking from the top 25 or so, you could probably
pick most of the arsenal first team. well 9 anyway.

[eirebhoy]

Duff has moved up to 5th place. He has got almost 0.4 points in the last 2 games, both games Chelsea only scored a combined total of 1 goal and Duff wasn't involved in it. It just shows the work he's putting in defensively and offensively and if he started Chelsea's first 6 league matches he'd be up there ahead of Terry, Johnson and Lampard and into at least 2nd place. It also proves my point that Lampard doesn't do enough of the dirty work (tackling, putting opposition under pressure, etc.) as he has almost 3 times as many assists as Duff, more goals but is still only 0.6 points ahead after playing the equivelent of almost 7 matches more than Duff.

http://actim.pa.press.net/top100.shtml

[tricky_colour]

Roy Keane has also take a leap up the charts to 18,
I think he was 32ish last time.

Plenty of midfielders in that chart, but short on forwards and defenders.