Jack Charlton

[seanfhear]

How about a Thread merge. Tighten things up a bit :lol:

[Drumcondra 69er]

Not blogged in a long time but had to put a few words down to make the passing of such a legend.


https://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.com/2020/07/how-early-days-of-charlton-era-changed.html

[tricky_colour]

RIP Jack, more Irish than the Irish!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thanks for the memories, Jack.

Rest easy big fella '...

RIP.

PS. Did Jack Charlton's Politics Actually Cost Him The Chance To Manage England? | Balls.ie
https://www.balls.ie/uncategorized/jack-charltons-politics-actually-cost-chance-manage-england-352128

[OwlsFan]

What can I say about Big Jack ? I was of a generation who thought we'd never qualify for anything. I think my first match was in 1964 when I was 10. We had good sides with big names in English football but couldn't quite get there. World Cups and Euros were for other nations and then Jack was appointed: a winner. I remember that great sports writer, Con Houlihan, wrote a scathing article about his appointment. I kept it because I knew he'd be wrong as I had seen what Jack had done at Sheffield Wednesday. On the way to be relegated to the old 4th division, he turned everything round and when he left they were challenging to be promoted to the old 1st division. I sent the article back to Con after Italia 90 but he didn't reply. Even great writers can be wrong sometimes.

I will never forget the Scottish game in Sofia and the unbelievable excitement that we HAD QUALIFIED for a tournament at last. I rang my friend (subsequently to fall out with over Saipan) with whom I had travelled to all foreign parts supporting Ireland and we immediately agreed we were off to Germany. I can still remember that Aer Lingus plane carrying the team landing in Germany for the tournament: how emotional was that? Ireland was on the world stage.

The rest is history and it's all down to Big Jack. It irked me a bit that the team I had followed through thick and thin with the hardcore supporters suddenly became a national phenomenon. It was like as if someone came up to me and said you're now following Manchester United. But that support was always there really. It just needed a catalyst. I had almost been crushed to death at internationals in Dalymount well before Jack and even FAI Cup Finals (e.g Rovers v Waterford in 1969). The attacks by the RTE Panel on him also sickened me but that's what we do in Ireland for ratings. It can never be taken away from Jack that he was the first to fulfill my and thousands of others dreams. To sing Amhrán na bhFiann at a major tournament and for the team to perform at those tournaments was just unbelievable. I had always intended to go to his funeral wearing the green top but it is now to be. There aren't many people in the world about whom you can say they fulfilled your dream: Jack was one for me. Thanks Jack

[jbyrne]

The Euro 88 campaign was when i started going to the games, i was at italia 90 and stood on the kop in 95 when we sang him off the pitch when it was obvious his term was at an end. what a journey it was...... lived and loved every minute of it.

his tactics were often criticised but for every Egypt 90 performance there was an Italy 94, England wembley 91 and USSR 88 performance where we played supposed superpowers of the game at the time off the park with no small amount of excellent football. in 94 we beat holland (with a greatly depleted team) and germany away before beating Italy at the WC..... incredible run of victories really.

RIP Jack.



In my opinion someone who contributed so much to Irish sport should get a major statue (I know there is one in Cork airport)

the new Lansdowne road stadium lacks character. often thought a couple of statues remembering the greats of our game just outside the ground would be a great addition. couldn't think of a more appropriate candidate for this than Jack

[geysir]

i had thought that mythical black book that Jack kept was just an amusing anecdote but in fact it was a tsunami of a witchunt (http://www.mightyleeds.co.uk/seasons/197071part2.htm) carried out against Jack in 1970. The media conducted a campaign demanding Leeds sack him, The FA said he would not play for England again, he had to answer to 3 charges. His saintly brother even stuck the boot in, in a newspaper article.

[Olé Olé]

Off the Ball on Newstalk had a series of interviews with high profile players of Jack's yesterday- Mick McCarthy, Ray Houghton, Kevin Sheedy, Kevin Moran, Jason McAteer, Mark Lawrenson, as well as Johnny Giles.

John Duggan is on interviewing duty and doesn't appear to be very well prepared or capable of coaxing the interviewees into expanding on certain points or stories. Still worth a listen, if only to your own selections. I enjoyed Moran, McAteer, Giles, Houghton and Mick a lot.

[Kingdom]

I'm too young to remember any of Charlton's tenure (born in 91)

Cheeky runt.

[Kingdom]

Off the Ball on Newstalk had a series of interviews with high profile players of Jack's yesterday- Mick McCarthy, Ray Houghton, Kevin Sheedy, Kevin Moran, Jason McAteer, Mark Lawrenson, as well as Johnny Giles.

John Duggan is on interviewing duty and doesn't appear to be very well prepared or capable of coaxing the interviewees into expanding on certain points or stories. Still worth a listen, if only to your own selections. I enjoyed Moran, McAteer, Giles, Houghton and Mick a lot.

Have listened to some of it, gonna try and listen to the rest shortly.
But my first reaction is duggan! You'd swear the man never drank a Duff in his life.

[Olé Olé]

Have listened to some of it, gonna try and listen to the rest shortly.
But my first reaction is duggan! You'd swear the man never drank a Duff in his life.

A real pity. Joe Molloy has his flaws and, even if he does like the sound of his own voice, manages to control and shape an interview well. I wish he had been on duty.

Still, it is great to get the immediate reaction of so many important people during the journey Charlton took us on. All managed to have a celebratory tone and provide a nice story or two.

[Eminence Grise]

November 15th, 1989. Ireland 2 - 0 Malta.
That was the day football arrived in my school, a staunchly GAA diocesan college with a former All-Star and a future county manager on the staff. A scattering of handball titles too. We were called to an assembly in the basketball hall (the only nod to foreign sports, but it was ball in hand and American so that was OK). We crowded in expecting nothing good – a tedious oration from the bishop, one of the boarders had TB… the rumour mill was in overdrive. Instead, two televisions had been wheeled to the top of the hall, and for the next two hours we roared ourselves hoarse – even lads whose natural instinct was to mitch stayed put. The language of square balls and 45s gave way to talk of channels, Aldo’s chances, the certainty that this was our moment. From time to time, after that, we got to see an odd match here and there, but that first day brought all the magic.

The football was rudimentary, but it was a direct ball with purpose not hopeful punts into channels. And it wasn’t a style of play chosen for a team of no-hopers unworthy of any other style as Trapattoni organised us, or as in the dog days of O’Neill’s tenure. It was the way Jack organised all his teams – maybe it was a compliment to our qualities that Jack persevered with his way of playing, knowing we would produce the results, knowing we were good enough to carry on his success, to meet his standards. We may not have played the prettiest football under Jack, but we played with the strongest mentality and self-belief, the steeliest discipline and ruthlessness, I’ve seen in 30+ years watching Ireland play. He made us fearless and feared, he made us proud. He fitted in. He gave us the nerve to eat at the top table and the gumption to sweep aside the delicacies for a Harry Ramsden’s served up with extra attitude. Jack got us, and we got him.

Thanks, Jack. Rest well, big man.

[paul_oshea]

Similar experiences to those your Eminence, primary school, christian brothers, gaa only played, and the principal Brother Ronald(who went off and married a nun, maybe ahead of his time in more ways than one :) ) brought us all into the assembly hall and wheeled in an old TV, and somehow managed to get the TV in. Jack brought football to parts of ireland that would never have even discussed it. He created the greatest childhood memories and provided us with the budding of a love affair with the Ireland national team. By all accounts he was very proud of the irish people and his role in getting us recognised. Some great stories about his time in ireland and in Ballina that ive seen come out since, when lads would be annoying him while he was fishing, all showing the humble great man he was. RIP Big Jack.

[paul_oshea]

What can I say about Big Jack ? I was of a generation who thought we'd never qualify for anything. I think my first match was in 1964 when I was 10. We had good sides with big names in English football but couldn't quite get there. World Cups and Euros were for other nations and then Jack was appointed: a winner. I remember that great sports writer, Con Houlihan, wrote a scathing article about his appointment. I kept it because I knew he'd be wrong as I had seen what Jack had done at Sheffield Wednesday. On the way to be relegated to the old 4th division, he turned everything round and when he left they were challenging to be promoted to the old 1st division. I sent the article back to Con after Italia 90 but he didn't reply. Even great writers can be wrong sometimes.

I will never forget the Scottish game in Sofia and the unbelievable excitement that we HAD QUALIFIED for a tournament at last. I rang my friend (subsequently to fall out with over Saipan) with whom I had travelled to all foreign parts supporting Ireland and we immediately agreed we were off to Germany. I can still remember that Aer Lingus plane carrying the team landing in Germany for the tournament: how emotional was that? Ireland was on the world stage.

The rest is history and it's all down to Big Jack. It irked me a bit that the team I had followed through thick and thin with the hardcore supporters suddenly became a national phenomenon. It was like as if someone came up to me and said you're now following Manchester United. But that support was always there really. It just needed a catalyst. I had almost been crushed to death at internationals in Dalymount well before Jack and even FAI Cup Finals (e.g Rovers v Waterford in 1969). The attacks by the RTE Panel on him also sickened me but that's what we do in Ireland for ratings. It can never be taken away from Jack that he was the first to fulfill my and thousands of others dreams. To sing Amhrán na bhFiann at a major tournament and for the team to perform at those tournaments was just unbelievable. I had always intended to go to his funeral wearing the green top but it is now to be. There aren't many people in the world about whom you can say they fulfilled your dream: Jack was one for me. Thanks Jack

WHy did you fall out with the guy over Saipan?

[shakermaker1982]

RIP Big Jack.

I’m listening to all the tributes and I could listen to stories about Jack all day long.

I was too young for 88 but 90 and 94 were magical for a kid. It was probably even better if you were young, free and single. Must have been carnage in Italy and the States.

[Stuttgart88]

if you were young, free and single. Must have been carnage in Italy and the States.Well, lots of drinking certainly. Not much else! At least that was my experience :)

[paul_oshea]

RIP Big Jack.

I’m listening to all the tributes and I could listen to stories about Jack all day long.

I was too young for 88 but 90 and 94 were magical for a kid. It was probably even better if you were young, free and single. Must have been carnage in Italy and the States.

I wondered about this, we met a lad on the way to poland who was probably mid to early 50s then, or looked very good for his age, who told us he and another lad met some Italian one want spent 4 weeks travelling Italy with her. I was trying to figure out if they both were getting their merry way or what. But from what he said, as a lad coming from london, that wasn't the norm. Money I imagine would have been tight and restrictive to stay out there and if you managed that then it was probably even tighter, unless you were an emigrant going to Italy. I imagine 1990 was probably more open than 1990 Ireland though. But like any tournament, I imagine it was 90% men there, and even less females than you'd get now. Even if the numbers were smaller. So to sum up, I imagine it wasn't too dissimilar to France 2016, and a little less similar to poland 2012 bar the numbers.

[geysir]

What can I say about Big Jack ? I was of a generation who thought we'd never qualify for anything. I think my first match was in 1964 when I was 10. We had good sides with big names in English football but couldn't quite get there. World Cups and Euros were for other nations and then Jack was appointed: a winner. I remember that great sports writer, Con Houlihan, wrote a scathing article about his appointment. I kept it because I knew he'd be wrong as I had seen what Jack had done at Sheffield Wednesday. On the way to be relegated to the old 4th division, he turned everything round and when he left they were challenging to be promoted to the old 1st division. I sent the article back to Con after Italia 90 but he didn't reply. Even great writers can be wrong sometimes.

I will never forget the Scottish game in Sofia and the unbelievable excitement that we HAD QUALIFIED for a tournament at last. I rang my friend (subsequently to fall out with over Saipan) with whom I had travelled to all foreign parts supporting Ireland and we immediately agreed we were off to Germany. I can still remember that Aer Lingus plane carrying the team landing in Germany for the tournament: how emotional was that? Ireland was on the world stage.

The rest is history and it's all down to Big Jack. It irked me a bit that the team I had followed through thick and thin with the hardcore supporters suddenly became a national phenomenon. It was like as if someone came up to me and said you're now following Manchester United. But that support was always there really. It just needed a catalyst. I had almost been crushed to death at internationals in Dalymount well before Jack and even FAI Cup Finals (e.g Rovers v Waterford in 1969). The attacks by the RTE Panel on him also sickened me but that's what we do in Ireland for ratings. It can never be taken away from Jack that he was the first to fulfill my and thousands of others dreams. To sing Amhrán na bhFiann at a major tournament and for the team to perform at those tournaments was just unbelievable. I had always intended to go to his funeral wearing the green top but it is now to be. There aren't many people in the world about whom you can say they fulfilled your dream: Jack was one for me. Thanks Jack
Con wrote an article the day after the first competitive game under Jack, the away game v Belgium and was full of praise for the team, the performance and the fans.
He was there.
Most people recognise that the FAI's process to appoint Jack was an embarrasing shambles. What Con wrote that annoyed you was after the first friendly v Wales, something to the extent that 'it's a pity that Brian Clough doesn't fish', a quip on Charton referring to what he knew about Ireland, 'it's a good place to fish' :)

[pineapple stu]

Most people recognise that the FAI's process to appoint Jack was an embarrasing shambles.
Do you know, I don't think I've seen or heard any mention of the infamous thrown bun as yet in any of the media coverage.

[seanfhear]

Molloy is a Gob$hite. Thats why he fits in at Newtalk.

[Kingdom]

Well, lots of drinking certainly. Not much else! At least that was my experience :)

I don't believe you. I'm sure there's a couple of Jersey Shore Guido's with fond memories of a skinny well-spoken Dub.

[tetsujin1979]

David Squires on Jack: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/jul/14/david-squires-on-the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton
Warning - that last panel is going to get you.

[geysir]

Do you know, I don't think I've seen or heard any mention of the infamous thrown bun as yet in any of the media coverage.
That was from an earlier time when Paddy Mulligan was a candidate coming up against Eoin Hand who was appointed after winning the vote 9-7. One blazer said he didn't vote for Mulligan as he suspected Paddy of throwing a bun at him. Paddy said later he did throw a bun up in the air in the hotel at an away game, it just happened to land on a blazer, who got his revenge years later as only a FAI blazer would.

[Diggs246]

That was from an earlier time when Paddy Mulligan was a candidate coming up against Eoin Hand who was appointed after winning the vote 9-7. One blazer said he didn't vote for Mulligan as he suspected Paddy of throwing a bun at him. Paddy said later he did throw a bun up in the air in the hotel at an away game, it just happened to land on a blazer, who got his revenge years later as only a FAI blazer would.

Jesus the FAI dont deserve us as fans

[Eminence Grise]

David Squires on Jack: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/jul/14/david-squires-on-the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton
Warning - that last panel is going to get you.

Third last one too.

I don't think Squires has ever packed so much into so few words.

[Stuttgart88]

David Squires on Jack: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/jul/14/david-squires-on-the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton
Warning - that last panel is going to get you.Jeez Tets, that's lovely.

[Fixer82]

David Squires on Jack: https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2020/jul/14/david-squires-on-the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton
Warning - that last panel is going to get you.

Think I have something in my eye

[D24Saint]

Brilliant drawings of Jack should be framed and sold.

[DeLorean]

Brilliant drawings of Jack should be framed and sold.

The print can be purchased for £35 - https://guardianprintshop.com/collections/david-squires/products/the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton

[Kingdom]

Jesus the FAI dont deserve us as fans

They kind of do though...not this board, obs.

[OwlsFan]

The print can be purchased for £35 - https://guardianprintshop.com/collections/david-squires/products/the-life-and-times-of-jack-charlton

Glad to see his stint at the Owls not forgotten in the montage :)

[geysir]

It took an owl to spot that one.
I just had a look at that away game on that mud patch v Bulgaria 1987 and we really should have won it, at least a draw.
Scotland winning there was just desserts for us. We were a better team all round than that lot.

[tetsujin1979]

lovel gesture from An Post and the Royal Mail
1285179641712578561

[Diggs246]

I love it

[geysir]

The Sky Sports News report of Jack's funeral referred to the mural at Baleena, Co Mayo.

[paul_oshea]

The guy was also Irish doing it. And they played Green and REd of Mayo for a lot of. Mayo peoples embarassment and self-awareness knows no bounds.

[seanfhear]

The guy was also Irish doing it. And they played Green and REd of Mayo for a lot of. Mayo peoples embarassment and self-awareness knows no bounds.Further explanation needed ! What are you on about ?

[Fixer82]

I was thinking about the Italia 90 squad earlier and totted up the players before googling.
Such a strange squad really.
Only 6 midfielders (only two of whom could be classed as wingers) and 7 strikers!!!
7 strikers!!!

What the hell was that all about?
Surely Gary Waddock could’ve taken the place of one of the strikers

https://www.worldfootball.net/teams/irland-team/wm-1990-in-italien/2/

[Stuttgart88]

Waddock was the Kevin Foley of that squad. Charlton says he regretted not bringing Waddock as Frank Stapleton was a miserable so and so over in Italy.

[Fixer82]

Waddock was the Kevin Foley of that squad. Charlton says he regretted not bringing Waddock as Frank Stapleton was a miserable so and so over in Italy.

It's mental to have 7 strikers in a squad though.
Watched a YouTube documentary on Charlton years with Colm Meaney and Stapleton was saying how the periphery players were not treated with much respect.
He didn't come out good in Cascarino's autobiography either. Seems like a bit of a strange fish.

I've also heard he's the only one who didn't take too kindly to the Apres match caricature of him

[DeLorean]

It's mental to have 7 strikers in a squad though.
Watched a YouTube documentary on Charlton years with Colm Meaney and Stapleton was saying how the periphery players were not treated with much respect.
He didn't come out good in Cascarino's autobiography either. Seems like a bit of a strange fish.

I've also heard he's the only one who didn't take too kindly to the Apres match caricature of him

Comes across a bit strange for sure, a dry wit, or maybe just dry! He was on that RTÉ programme 'Keys to My Life' recently and host Brendan Courtney mentioned about Après Match. He just replied with something along the lines of "I've never watched it", so yeah, I don't think he was too impressed. The programme itself was quite good though.

[geysir]

It's mental to have 7 strikers in a squad though.
Watched a YouTube documentary on Charlton years with Colm Meaney and Stapleton was saying how the periphery players were not treated with much respect.
He didn't come out good in Cascarino's autobiography either. Seems like a bit of a strange fish.

I've also heard he's the only one who didn't take too kindly to the Apres match caricature of him

Jack Charlton is far from being the only one who doesn't like being caricatured and wouldn't watch the program. It makes no difference if the rest of the world are on the floor doing belly laughs.
Afair, Giles thought his caricature was total rubbish, lacked moral courage, wouldn't watch it, but enjoyed watching the others being lampooned. When asked, Souness' face looked like he was having teeth pulled out with a pliars. And I can't imagine Stapleton being too pleased being caricatured as a monotone Frank the Plank. And didn't Dunphy have a major hissy fit after watching himself being lampooned by Dermot Morgan, he refused to turn up in the the RTE studio the next day for the World Cup final.
Just guessing, but i'd say it's normal enough not being able to watch yourself being caricatured as a moron on national tv.

[paul_oshea]

I think he was talking about Frank Stapleton.

[geysir]

I think he was talking about Frank Stapleton.

The Frank is not alone in taking unkindly to his AM caricature.

[DeLorean]

The Frank is not alone in taking unkindly to his AM caricature.

True, but not taking oneself so seriously is generally a better look. If anything, his miserable reaction only serves to feed the caricature, though I can see why he wouldn't be happy with the portrayal.

[geysir]

Taking oneself so seriously has nothing to do with it, anybody who says they enjoy /warmly tolerate being caricatured as a moron, a plank or a hysterical clown is in all probability spoofing you.

Charlton made an error by selecting Stapleton for Italy 90, it appears he managed the Waddock situation very poorly and then portioned blame on Stapleton for his mistake.

[Fixer82]

It seems strange that Charlton was happy to axe Brady but not Stapleton.
Maybe because he was our record goal scorer he felt he couldn’t drop him

[DeLorean]

Taking oneself so seriously has nothing to do with it, anybody who says they enjoy /warmly tolerate being caricatured as a moron, a plank or a hysterical clown is in all probability spoofing you.

Charlton made an error by selecting Stapleton for Italy 90, it appears he managed the Waddock situation very poorly and then portioned blame on Stapleton for his mistake.

Oh, okay. That's me told. :rolleyes:

[Trequartista20]

It was a lack of depth that led to Stapleton being selected more than anything else, wasn't it?

A bit like Wales now, we had some star players big clubs and a larger number of players playing for lesser sides.

We have, probably more to pick from at a higher level now, just without the star names.

[Fixer82]

Charlton had 6 strikers in the 88 squad.

In the 1994 squad I reckon he had only 4 in Aldridge, Kelly, Coyne and Cascarino.

Of course, we were playing 4-5-1 at that stage