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drinkfeckarse
23/09/2004, 9:03 AM
The latest hostage drama in Iraq must be unimaginably terrifying for the remaining hostage Kenneth Bigley. I think it's an absolute disgrace that his government don't use every power they have to get him released. I know they can't publicly say they will negotiate with terrorists but surely they can come to some sort of agreement behind the scenes? I know if it was one of my family (God forbid) I would hold the powers that be personally responsible if he was killed.
For me it is a simple case of having the power to save a mans life. I couldn't live with myself knowing that there was more that I could have done to stop this. Forget politics in a situation like this, how can you have a mans life on your conciance?
I hope to God that he ends up released but from news reports, hope is running out. I can't imagine what his family is going through never mind himself. He will most likely be aware of what happened to his 2 fellow hostages and of how they were killed......How can you let a man suffer like that without doing the everything possible to get him released?
Lets be honest here, if this was Tony Blairs kid or one of the Ministers children then you can be sure that they would be freed....

liam88
23/09/2004, 8:20 PM
I agree with you that this isn't about politics.
This is sick this is wrong.
Whatever else has happend in Iraq this is wrong. Northing-nothing can justify this. I know lot's of people on here are against the war, against the USA, against the UK but that has nothing to do with this.
You cannot just kill people. You cannot just cut peoples heads off. You can't make videos of it.

I know some of you are going to say the Americas/Brits have done things just as bad and that's not right either.

But Ken Bigly has done nothing to the Iraqi people, he's just out there earning his living to put food on his table. Even if he had done anything it still does not justify what he's going through.

It wouldn't matter if they're al-quaeda, Checyns, Serbians or the IRA; it's just not right .

Pray for Ken Bigley and his family.

On a side note; if these barstards think that they're going to be doing muslims any favours they don't have a clue. To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

the 12 th man
23/09/2004, 8:42 PM
saw his elderly mum pleading for his life on tv tonight...............pretty sad stuff alright.
i'm afraid its difficult to see mr bigley being released as neither side wants to loose public face on this one.

expect the worst :(

Lionel Ritchie
24/09/2004, 9:36 AM
saw his elderly mum pleading for his life on tv tonight...............pretty sad stuff alright.
i'm afraid its difficult to see mr bigley being released as neither side wants to loose public face on this one.

expect the worst :(

Sadly have to agree. heard on the radio last night this particular grouping are responsible for about 30 of the 100-odd kidnappings of foreigners that've happened since Dubbya declared the war was won ...they've yet to release a single person alive.

Metrostars
24/09/2004, 1:09 PM
I
But Ken Bigly has done nothing to the Iraqi people, he's just out there earning his living to put food on his table. Even if he had done anything it still does not justify what he's going through.




Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.

As for the kidnappers, anyone who chops off someone's head in the name of Allah or God knows they are not going to sail off into heaven with 70 smelly virgins waiting for them. They know they are going to that burning place. It's just that they don't care.

Really, how can you negotiate with these vile animals? Giving in to them will only encourage them more.

Dricky
24/09/2004, 1:51 PM
Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.

As for the kidnappers, anyone who chops off someone's head in the name of Allah or God knows they are not going to sail off into heaven with 70 smelly virgins waiting for them. They know they are going to that burning place. It's just that they don't care.

Really, how can you negotiate with these vile animals? Giving in to them will only encourage them more.

There was a time up the north a certain group would blow you up if you worked for the RUC or Brithsh Army..... murder is murder

fosterdollar
24/09/2004, 2:13 PM
Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined.

Met an American ex-Marine in Dubrovnik a few weeks ago who worked for a reconstruction firm in Iraq. Apparently the money is pretty good but i didnt rate the $10,000 a month as impressive as he seemed to think it was. He said that when they travel around they move in protected convoys and several times they have been attacked. After i had suggested he'd be lucky to see fifty (he was 40), he said he didnt mind and that when it was decided his time had come then he would accept it (not much choice really :rolleyes: ). Anyway i thought at the time that it does say something about the outlook of people heading out there to work at the moment.

drinkfeckarse
24/09/2004, 3:10 PM
Anyone who goes to Iraq right now is taking a huge risk and needs to have their head examined. He could have found work at home so spare me the putting food on the table deal. It's easy to flip the tables and we could say he is there to make a profit and there are risks involved.


Fair enough he's there to make money and probably good money at that but are we all not in the same boat?? :confused:
I work to "put food on the table" so to speak not for the fun of it.

He knew the risks involved no doubt but that does not mean he deserves this. Various governments openly advertise jobs in Iraq i.e. Building work, telecommunications etc for their people to take up. I've seen it where I am where a couple of friends in the building trade have been on about jobs advertised in trade magazines over in Iraq. Should you not expect your Government to help you in times of need should something bad happen?

eoinh
24/09/2004, 7:09 PM
To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

Shame on you!


For evil to triumph all it takes is for good men to do nothing.

brendy_éire
24/09/2004, 7:46 PM
To be honest I can see all hell breaking loose in Britain if they do anything to Ken Bigley and I'm not going to be standing out there stopping people stoning the local Mosque.

That's a shocking statement to make there, Liam. By your logic, everytime the IRA let off a bomb in England, English people everywhere should go out and stone the nearest Catholic Church. :rolleyes:
No excuse for hostage taking, but advocating violence because of it makes you no worse than the fellas holding Ken Bigley.

Wile that's it's happening, but surely no-one was naive enough to think it wouldn't happen?

dfa, Tony Blair doesn't give a flying **** about your man. He's murdered tens of thousands already, sure what's another one to him?

Jon'o
24/09/2004, 8:02 PM
On a side note; if these barstards think that they're going to be doing muslims any favours they don't have a clue.

in the same way that any resulting protests / backlash will reflect badly on all non muslims.

people bashing down the doors of the local mosque are no better than the people kidnapping in iraq.... the kidnappers do not represent all muslims in the same way that any potental protest will not represent most normal minded people.

considering there is very little any of us can do to help the situation in iraq the very least we can do is attempt to avert any potental backlash over here

RedX
25/09/2004, 9:20 PM
Firstly i think it is a very sad situation and Mr Bigleys wife and family must be going through the worse imaginable time.I hope to god the man is let free..

Next what i would like to say is that it is sad also that so much focus is being put on Mr Bigley alone.Of course it is because he is British and they are one of the occupying countries in Iraq.But what about all the innocent Iraqi people that are dying every day?Last night the Americans dropped a few bombs into an area where they say is a hold-up for terrorists.They could be right but in doing so they also killed INNOCENT IRAQI women and children.Sounds very like what the Israeli's are doing in Palestine.I did not hear many people trying to prevent the Americans from resisting this bombardment.Away from Iraq what about Sudan?All those little children dying and yet all we are seeing is Mr Bigley.Again i say dont get me wrong because this is a terrible sad situation but i think more focus should also be focused elsewhere rather than just on one man right now.You would think that there is enough wealth and food in the world that there should be no one hungry ever.I pray for Mr Bigley but also for the poor starving people of Sudan..

liam88
27/09/2004, 3:35 PM
That's a shocking statement to make there, Liam. By your logic, everytime the IRA let off a bomb in England, English people everywhere should go out and stone the nearest Catholic Church. :rolleyes:
No excuse for hostage taking, but advocating violence because of it makes you no worse than the fellas holding Ken Bigley.



I really hope everyone is going to read this because ma comment has been very badly mis-interpreted (probably my phrasing of it).
I would be completly AGAINST the stonuing of Mosques, stoning to Mosques is not 'my logic' and I'm pretty offended you'd think I would advocate this.
What I'm saying is I've seen some of these BNP/NF/C18 animals who are using the world situation as an excuse to screw Muslims and I'm saying I wouldn't want to get in the way of a load of skinhead yobs stoning a mosque!

Of course i'd be against it, campaign against it just I'm a 16 year old lad and i'm not realistically going to survive one minute out there against a bunch of BNP yobs!

I think whayt htye are doing is sick right! My dad is Catholic but happens to have the same colour skin as many Muslims-result, intensive checks at the airport and probably ****e from the racists if all this flares up in ingurland-ya think i'm going to go by 'my logic' which seems to be the same as the BNP's by some peoples interpritation and start giving ma dad abuse........

I would never advocate destroying the Mosques-loke i said i'm realyl dissapointed you would think i would

SÓC
27/09/2004, 3:45 PM
Interesting to hear Mr. Bigley's brother on 5Live last night. He said something along the lines that the British Government had totally let them down. He was saying how good the Irish Government have been to their family and how he wished the British would have half their decency.

Colm
27/09/2004, 3:50 PM
Interesting to hear Mr. Bigley's brother on 5Live last night. He said something along the lines that the British Government had totally let them down. He was saying how good the Irish Government have been to their family and how he wished the British would have half their decency.

Yeah heard him talking to Gerry Ryan this morning and he was saying pretty much the same thing.
Also said something about how the police spoke to him as the Home Office wanted him to stop his campaign and not do anymore interviews etc as it was embarrassing them.

Éanna
27/09/2004, 3:59 PM
pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo :rolleyes:

Peadar
27/09/2004, 4:29 PM
pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo :rolleyes:

Without trying to dismiss your point Éanna, the inmates in camp X-Ray are unlikely to have their heads hacked off and then have a video of it posted on the Internet.

drinkfeckarse
27/09/2004, 4:54 PM
RedX and Eanna have a point and of course there's rights and wrongs on both sides but that's not what this thread is about.

It's about having the means to save someone and not using them.

Metrostars
27/09/2004, 5:45 PM
pity there hasn't been the same outcry over the people held hostage by the US government in guantanamo :rolleyes:

These are POWs. Also, having the threat of having your head cut off is not quite the same as having clean clothes, a daily shower and decent food, most of whom only got once or twice a year in Tora Bora or whever they came from. Plus they get to spend some time in the Carribean.

FWIW, this is what happened to one of them when he was freed from Guantanamo:
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040926_475.html

Fire away, flame me. I don't care. I know there is a small precentage who shouldnt be there but the vast majority of these guys are just Osama's minnions.

Éanna
27/09/2004, 5:55 PM
These are POWs. FWIW, this is what happened to one of them when he was freed from Guantanamo: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040926_475.html
No they aren't. The USA has breached international law/the Geneva Convention by denying them POW status, and classifying them as unlawful combatants. They are just as much hostages and victims of kidnapping as Kenneth Bigley is- they're just less likely to be killed. Kenneth Bigley should not be held captive and what is happening him is appalling, but the blame for what has happened him should be directed at Bush and Blair and their campaign of illegal occupation and murder of civilians in Iraq. The only pity is its not Halliburton's oil hungry execs that are getting their heads chopped off and that poor unfortunates like Bigley have got caught in the crossfire.

jofyisgod
27/09/2004, 6:36 PM
The only pity is its not Halliburton's oil hungry execs that are getting their heads chopped off and that poor unfortunates like Bigley have got caught in the crossfire.

True Eanna, and before i say this i'd like to point out that i am very sympathetic towards Bigley's family and friends and i do not condone this in any way, but who, in their right mind would be out in Iraq at the moment? He wasn't forced out there as a member of the Armed Forces, nor was he forced due to work. He chose to go, he must have known the risks...It's like jumping into a river, and then complaining when you're drowning.

It annoys me then that people instantly jump on Blair. Yes, he is PM, yes, you voted him and yes, you voted for him to take decisions that you wouldn't.(You-the general UK public) He will be accountable at the next election, so get him then if you are going to, don't start a witchhunt and make things worse for Muslims here in the UK, as Liam already mentioned.TBH, he'll get voted in again anyway, but that's irrelevant.

Is there that much Blair can do to save this man? Once a terrorist has paid $150,000 for a man, they're not going to give him back airy-fairy.
Remember, while Blair is saying that his Govt don't want to be seen giving in to terrorists, the Terrorists won't want to lose face by giving in to the West.
Catch-22.

Good Luck, Ken, and I hope you somehow get out.

liam88
27/09/2004, 9:30 PM
and we've all established I don't spend my Saturday nights stoning Woking Mosque?


Thinking about it I was angry when I wrote my original post-I would stand in the way

sylvo
28/09/2004, 9:46 AM
Thinking about it I was angry when I wrote my original post-I would stand in the way

Liam 2-0 son from saturday, I was'nt let yer go without a little reminder. :D
Anyway back on track. The Ken Bigley case is indeed a very sad one as indeed the whole situation in Iraq, thank's to George W and his blame Saddam for 9/11 and grab all the oil war he's now taken a secular Islamic state and turned it into a fundamentel Islamic state, and the insurgent's are sadly just going following America and Britain's role in killing innocent people, anybody getting killed is tragic.
I do understand the fear's of Muslim's in Britain, after all it was'nt all that long ago that our community was public enemy in the eye's of most of the media and the police. The rise in arrest's and stop and search's by the police of not just muslim's but on any member of the Asian community has rocketed and has left a siege mentality in many Asain's which was pretty much the same situation for the Irish community in the 70's and 80's.
The media has done their total best as well to strke fear into the joe blogg's Brit public with hysteria about Abu Hamsa and the finsbury park Mosque making joe Blogg's public think that their under siege from Islam, were in fact Abu Hamsa is not or ever has been a Muslim Cleric and is just there for his own personnal gain's, if they'd gone to any other mosque they would have just found people practising their religon and not bothering anyone. But of course that's no good for the media stance of we have to have an enemy to sell to Joe Blogg's Brit public, last year the eastern europian's claiming benifit's now the muslim's.

brendy_éire
28/09/2004, 1:59 PM
and we've all established I don't spend my Saturday nights stoning Woking Mosque?

Aye. :D Really mis-interpreted what ye were saying.

Éanna
29/09/2004, 11:39 PM
Fire away, flame me. I don't care. I know there is a small precentage who shouldnt be there but the vast majority of these guys are just Osama's minnions.
No intention of flaming you at all. Just of pointing out the total inaccuracy of your statement in calling them POWs. As for them being Osama's minnions. I wouldn't believe that either, but it is entirely possible. How about the fact that Osama was a US minnion less than 20 years ago?

Closed Account 2
30/09/2004, 4:36 AM
The poor man will probably be decapitated, certainly if Zarkawi is involved it sounds ominous.

While some of the blame must lie with Bush and Blair, imo the vast majority of it has to lie with the scumbags who actually chop peoples heads off on tv. I think absolving them from blame is not a particularly smart course of action. While the war in Iraq is questionable (and I was actually against it for geo-political reasons) and the Red Army's track record in Chechnya is not very good, the day we pseudo-legitimise events like Beslan, 9/11, and these beheadings is the day we go down a very dangerous path. These particular sorts of terrorists would kill anyone of us "Westerners" (even if we didnt like the West) given half a chance, they even kill their fellow Muslims if theyre deemed too moderate. I wonder if these "mea culpa" views would be the same if say, it was one of our children blown up by terrorists at school, if it was our grandparents executed on holiday, or if we were left rummaging through the remains of the World Trade Center looking for our wives or husbands... one of these days it could be.

Another thing worth bearing in mind is that Fundamentalists dont just target the West, as ive said before they dont have a problem with killing fellow Muslims. Also bear in mind theyve (Al Qaeda esque groups) have chopped the heads off Serbs, Pilipinos, Indian Hindus and even attacked the East Timorese (certainly the latter can hardly be described as agents of Western Oppression). And the treatment Islamic regimes dish out to Egyptian Coptic Christians, Iranian Zorastrians or in Sudan suggests to me that there are larger forces at work than simply this West v Islam idea. Also other poor people / regions have it much worse (IMO Latin Americans face poverty and a history Western Interference on a scale that dwarfs anything the Islamic world faces), yet they dont react in such a way, so why has Islamic Fundamentalism got such a root?

Personally I find the way the left wing (a viewpoint which I hold in high regard) is rallying around an Ideology that is so overtly repressive to homosexuals and isn’t too keen on women’s rights disconcerting and a trifle worrying. I’m neither a homosexual nor a woman but I wouldn’t want to see their rights (which theyve had to wait so long for) go down the pan - and when you see things like the Canadian proposal to introduce Sharia'a law you begin to worry. And you have to be concerned over the legitimacy of an ideology that refuses to allow any negative questions to arise, look at what happened to Rushdie when he had a fatwa against him. I can still remember all the book burnings and rallies in London, looking at that now -the burning of books that didn’t adhere to a particular ideology- it has smacks of a certain right wing regime that was prevalent in Germany in the 1930s. But I guess that’s a different topic.

Anyway I hope Bigley survives, but I fear the worst.

joeSoap
08/10/2004, 1:22 PM
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13228464,00.html

blobbyblob
08/10/2004, 1:24 PM
Unconfirmed

joeSoap
08/10/2004, 1:32 PM
Maybe it's someone trying to make Billy Connolly feel even worse

fosterdollar
08/10/2004, 1:58 PM
by the sounds of his reaction to journalists this morning he doesnt feel that bad

thecorner
08/10/2004, 2:15 PM
how could they kill an "irishman"

blobbyblob
08/10/2004, 2:18 PM
will mrs bigley get an irish widows pension

max power
08/10/2004, 2:23 PM
he has dual citizenship and yes she is entitled to the pension, BUT he didn't sign the application form for the passport so we might use that loop hole to get out of paying it ;)

Macy
08/10/2004, 2:36 PM
will mrs bigley get an irish widows pension
Only if she moves to Ireland afaik. If she's under a certain age she won't qualify after one of the "new Labour" right wing social secruity changes :rolleyes:

joeSoap
08/10/2004, 2:39 PM
This is all just lovely lads....lovely. :rolleyes: :mad:

joeSoap
08/10/2004, 3:59 PM
Unconfirmed
Video of him getting beheaded on Al-Jazzeira TV a short while ago... :mad:

Peadar
08/10/2004, 4:19 PM
insignificant though compared to the amount of Iraqis & Palestinians killed on a daily basis

In order to have a respect for life we must begin with valuing each individual life. The destruction of one life is never insignificant!

jofyisgod
08/10/2004, 5:28 PM
Fúck, i thought he might walk away to be honest. Every day he was still around, his chances got better. RIP.

Every life counts, but in the eyes of our press, British lives count more... :rolleyes:

liam88
08/10/2004, 5:39 PM
how could they kill an "irishman"

They have alreayd killed 2 Irish reporters :(

liam88
08/10/2004, 6:56 PM
Ken Bigley has been confirmend dead. RIP.
This is barbaric whatever the circumstances.
He was helping Iraqis by what he was building them but politics aside it take snothing away from how barbaric this is :(
They've done Muslim in the UK no favours-just more BNP/C18/NF properganda material.
Very sad indeed.

Jon'o
08/10/2004, 7:09 PM
RIP

thoughts with his family

jofyisgod
08/10/2004, 9:34 PM
They've done Muslim in the UK no favours-just more BNP/C18/NF properganda material.


Good point. Living in the UK also, there is so much 'anti-muslim, etc' feeling around at the moment, it is only a matter of time before something major hapens, IMO.

bamsham
08/10/2004, 10:08 PM
Fair Comment. Here in the North not only Muslims but every racial minority are being put down, Just like when Paddy went to England in the 1950's. Do they not realise that this is how it all starts. Thoughts and prayers with Ken Bigleys Family.

A face
09/10/2004, 2:00 AM
The Americans will sort it all out anyway !!

Noodles
09/10/2004, 3:16 AM
Ken Bigley was not an Irishman he was a Scouser from Liverpool

He lived 10 minutes from me....

May Ken Bigley Rest in peace, only he knows the anguish/fear he went through, a waste of a classic Kind hearted scouser/father/son!

Like they say "what goes around, comes around", their time will come, and in my opinion the sooner the better..............


REST IN PEACE KEN BIGLEY, YOUR IN ALL US SCOUSERS HEARTS M8!

http://www.edelbaer.com/images/FC%20Liverpool.jpg

Noodles
09/10/2004, 3:19 AM
A fookin blue on blue attack, and a good Hamburger!

sligoman
09/10/2004, 12:58 PM
There's talks that he escaped first for half an hour with the help of one of the kidnappers.That's why they killed him.

thecorner
09/10/2004, 4:02 PM
British hostage Ken Bigley escaped for half an hour before he was beheaded, it has been reported.


His captors said the 62-year-old was helped by one of the hostage-takers.

The Foreign Office refused to confirm or comment on the claims.

Insurgent sources told the Reuters news agency that the engineer fled onto farmland in Latifiya but was caught.

"He never made it to the main street," the source said.

The fate of his accomplice is not known.

A Western security source is reported to have said Mr Bigley was killed because he had tried to escape.

liam88
09/10/2004, 6:57 PM
Ken Bigley was not an Irishman he was a Scouser from Liverpool

He lived 10 minutes from me....

May Ken Bigley Rest in peace, only he knows the anguish/fear he went through, a waste of a classic Kind hearted scouser/father/son!

Like they say "what goes around, comes around", their time will come, and in my opinion the sooner the better..............


REST IN PEACE KEN BIGLEY, YOUR IN ALL US SCOUSERS HEARTS M8!

http://www.edelbaer.com/images/FC%20Liverpool.jpg


Good man mate

sligoman
09/10/2004, 7:56 PM
He's not an Irishman,he's English.R.I.P. Ken,but I did'nt like the way his brother wanted the Irish government to help tough, because the Blair and co. would'nt.He wanted to be Irish when it suit.