View Full Version : Ken Bigley
Noodles
09/10/2004, 9:58 PM
He's not an Irishman,he's English.R.I.P. Ken,but I did'nt like the way his brother wanted the Irish government to help tough, because the Blair and co. would'nt.He wanted to be Irish when it suit.
At the end of the day m8, it was hs brother, none of us really know what those poor people where going through, how can you unless your in that situation yourself for real? But at the end of the day i know for sure if it was my brother in that situation i wud do my upmost possible to get him home and away from such evil....
Ken Bigley was a everyday man just like you n me, he didnt deserve to be there, nobody deservers to be in that situation....
So at the end of the day wud you do anythin for your brother?
Just my thoughts............
sligoman
10/10/2004, 12:35 AM
Yeah I would do anything for my brother but, he is'nt Irish and you can't just claim your Irishness when it suits you. I bet he never classed himself as Irish.There just my toughts.
Sory to hear ofanyone getting killed, particularly in such a gruesome and barbaric fashion but, this thread raises 3 issues:
1. Why is there a thread about this and not about all the innocent Iraqis, Palestinians, Chechens etc being killed on a daily basis? Is Bigleys life worth more because he's a westerner?
2. Regardless of what a nice guy he was etc., he went there to make money out of the war and as such was exploiting the US-led invasion. So he was certainly NOT an innocent civilian, he was out to profit from the suffering and misery of the Iraqi people and he knew what the risks were.
3. Why should Muslims in Britain (or anywhere else) be forced to condemn these things when they have FÚck all to do with it? Did every Catholic in the world have to condemn it very time the IRA did something?
This is all about the double standards being employed by western europe and the US- its no wonder al qaeda have so much support, the way muslims are treated in this part of the world
joeSoap
11/10/2004, 6:46 PM
So if an Irish person gets an eye gouged out, say, in Limerick, because they went there as part of the civil service reformation, or for education purposes, we should say 'it's a pity, but he DID go to Limerick to further his career/education and should just take the rough with the smooth'?
That sort of thing doesn't happen in Limerick...... :D :D
Good post though
Plastic Paddy
11/10/2004, 7:09 PM
I can't believe some of what I'm reading here, and it's all I can do to restrain myself to criticising the posts rather than the posters. Bigley was nothing but an ordinary man trying to earn a decent wage wherever he could, not some mercenary freeloader or oppressor of the people. Some of you want to think really hard about what putting food on the table can entail. You'll do what it takes if you have to, believe me. That and being in the wrong place at the wrong time were Bigley's only crimes.
In addition, it matters not a tinker's curse where he was from (English, Irish, Scouse; whatever) nor, in the end, that he was awarded Irish citizenship in absentia. Debating his origins in the context of his demise is sickly ironic. His family did anything they thought would help Ken. That's all. Sometimes life and humanity are worth more than petty nationalism. Just think about it.
God rest Ken, my thoughts and prayers go for you and with your family at this wretched time.
:ball: PP
liam88
11/10/2004, 7:30 PM
I can't believe some of what I'm reading here, and it's all I can do to restrain myself to criticising the posts rather than the posters. Bigley was nothing but an ordinary man trying to earn a decent wage wherever he could, not some mercenary freeloader or oppressor of the people. Some of you want to think really hard about what putting food on the table can entail. You'll do what it takes if you have to, believe me. That and being in the wrong place at the wrong time were Bigley's only crimes.
In addition, it matters not a tinker's curse where he was from (English, Irish, Scouse; whatever) nor, in the end, that he was awarded Irish citizenship in absentia. Debating his origins in the context of his demise is sickly ironic. His family did anything they thought would help Ken. That's all. Sometimes life and humanity are worth more than petty nationalism. Just think about it.
God rest Ken, my thoughts and prayers go for you and with your family at this wretched time.
:ball: PP
Agree with every word mate-just sorry I coudln't/was to afraid of criticism to put it so well myself :(
Closed Account 2
12/10/2004, 3:05 AM
1. Why is there a thread about this and not about all the innocent Iraqis, Palestinians, Chechens etc being killed on a daily basis? Is Bigleys life worth more because he's a westerner?
Palestinians and Chechens are sperate issues, arent they ? All deaths are tragic, but the murder of someone who's Irish (or at the very least who's parent(s) are Irish) is naturally going to be discussed on an Irish forum. Its like the person next door. When we, or certainly when I, hear about this happening to an Everton fan with an 86 year old mother from Dublin, who had to work overseas to buy a house, it could be a description about my uncle, my dad or me in 40 years (tho I dont support Everton but that is by the by). People are always going to take more notice of something they feel more affinity towards, it might not be the "right" thing but this is just the way news/people is/are.
Also he was executed in a particularly nasty manner. His killers had the total intention of murdering him in this sick sadistic way, to most civilised people such a deliberate execution/mutilation is disgusting, the people who carried it out, theyre worse than animals.
2. Regardless of what a nice guy he was etc., he went there to make money out of the war and as such was exploiting the US-led invasion. So he was certainly NOT an innocent civilian, he was out to profit from the suffering and misery of the Iraqi people and he knew what the risks were.
Do you realise by saying he's not a civilian your in effect saying hes a legitimate target? I think going by most conventions an unarmed 60-something year old engineer, not attached to an army, is defined as a civilian. Journalists working in Iraq are there to make money, are they exploiting the invasion ? according to your logic do they too not "profit from the suffering and misery of the Iraqi people" and im sure theyre aware of the risks, if so are they legitimate targets?
Also from what I read he was just trying to get money together to build a house to retire to and support his wife and kids as a 60 year old in an industry that tends to employ the young his options for employment were probably very limited, he may well have been forced by his finances to work out there. He'd set up businesses and made a good job of running a supermarket on the Wirral, but had to sell it up after his first wife was attacked during a robbery. To make him out as some sort of roaming bandit preying on suffering is frankly vile. He was a poor old man trying to make ends meet, executed by a bunch of cowards, he and familiy didnt deserve this at all.
joeSoap
12/10/2004, 8:14 AM
Hear Hear!!
ccfcman
12/10/2004, 11:48 AM
There will be a condolensce book oppened in Áras na Mac Léinn tomorrow for UCC students and staff.
Éanna
12/10/2004, 12:02 PM
Possibly because they live in a democracy (something that would, of course, be denied in a world where the people who executed Mr. Bigley ruled) and are entitled to speak out about a war that, to some extent, is based or fuelled by religious fanatacism, whether by the Christian Americans or Islamic Arabs, they have a desire to do so. Should Muslims not speak out? Should they be gagged or censored?
Thats not my point. My point is they are in a position where they have to be seen to be defending Islam, as if all Muslims are implicated. And thats because of the prejudice that exists in the western world.
As for Bigley being an innocent civilian- he went to Iraq to make money out of a war that has caused death and suffering for the Iraqi people and he knew the place was dangerous. At least he had a choice. What about all those Iraqi's or Palestinians or Chechens going about their business in their own towns or villages who have been killed by supposed democratic countries. What choice did they have? This is all because western society values some lives more than others
observer
12/10/2004, 12:07 PM
Does it matter one iota whether he was English or Irish, Christian or Muslim, black or yellow. He was killed in a brutal fashion and the manner in which his fear and suffering was dangled in front of his family was barbaric. There is no cause or religion which can justify such behavior. I do not believe his death was the result of an escape attempt. His captors never intended any other fate for him then that he finally suffered. These animals have a blood lust which is insatiable. We saw similiar in this country when the Real IRA was created by murderers to enable them carry on their power driven serial killing.
God love the poor families of all the victims who have been beheaded by these lunatics.
joeSoap
12/10/2004, 12:11 PM
As for Bigley being an innocent civilian- he went to Iraq to make money out of a war that has caused death and suffering for the Iraqi people and he knew the place was dangerous. At least he had a choice.
Yes, but you can be sure he didn't choose to die, certainly in the barbaric manner in which he did. Whatever way you dress it up, you're saying that this is his own fault, which is quite ludicrous. We all have done greedy things from time to time, but I don't consider what he did greedy. He didn't start, cause or play any hand in the war in Iraq, and there are several Irish there at the moment 'exploiting' the same avenues.
The man was brutally murdered by hypocritical savages and thats that, there is no other way of dressing it up.
Yes, but you can be sure he didn't choose to die, certainly in the barbaric manner in which he did. Whatever way you dress it up, you're saying that this is his own fault, which is quite ludicrous. We all have done greedy things from time to time, but I don't consider what he did greedy.
He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.
He didn't start, cause or play any hand in the war in Iraq, and there are several Irish there at the moment 'exploiting' the same avenues.
No doubt, and they also know the risks. And if they weren't aware of the potential risks they are now. If they chose to stay out there, and god forbid anything happens to them, well I'm sorry I would struggle to have much sympathy.
The man was brutally murdered by hypocritical savages and thats that, there is no other way of dressing it up.
He was brutally murdered by people (rightly or wrongly) who think they are fighting for freedom. In the same way that the 'RA brutally murdered people in their fight for freedom.
Would a fellow working late in, say, Connolly Station cleaning a train, forced to remain around the city centre of Dublin late at night, 'put himself in that situation' if he got hammered while walking home? How about someone cleaning up in Abrakebabra on O'Connell Bridge on the minimum wage and not getting out of work until 3 in the morning on weekends - do they put themselves in a dangerous situation for cash?
Are they working for many, many multiples of what they would be getting if they took a job in a "safe" part of town earlier in the day?
Is there some suggestion that Mr. Bigley had a choice of jobs, and deliberately took the riskier one over some cushy safe number because he was getting paid vastly increased sums? Or are you just making an assumption?
I'm basing that on the fact that his family were originally saying that he took the job out there as his "pension fund". I was in Manch when it broke and that is the statement they released to the local news the morning it happened.
joeSoap
12/10/2004, 1:18 PM
In the same way that the 'RA brutally murdered people in their fight for freedom.
As I said.....murderous, savage hypocrites....wheres the difference?
As I said.....murderous, savage hypocrites....wheres the difference?
No difference, at least we agree on something on this one.
Are they working for many, many multiples of what they would be getting if they took a job in a "safe" part of town earlier in the day?What they are undoubtedly getting - if the people who used to clean up Dublin are now onto better things these days - is many multiples of what they would be getting back home. Hold on, that's not right, because how many times you multiply zero by you still get left with zero. If any of these - like the Chinese bloke in early 2002 - get killed in Dublin, because they know it's a racist place, but they still went there, then that's alright?
Iraq needs to be rebuilt (I for one am not agreeing it should have been levelled in the first place). It is in the interests of these w*nkers that killed Bigley to leave it in a kip.
Eanna, you have a rather blinkered view of Zionist Occupied Palestine. While I agree this state is illegal, what exactly have your Arab friends done to help their own people, apart from start a couple of wars? Roughly the same ammount of Jews have been turfed out of the Arab world since 1948 as Palestinians have in their own country. However while the ZOP government has taken these refugees in, built homes for them and given them jobs, leaders of Arab countries and their cronies have left their 'own people' to fester in their own filfth in refugee sites while they carry on lording it around the mediterranean in huge, f*ck off, ships. It's not like the Arab world is skint, is it?
Lionel Ritchie
12/10/2004, 1:53 PM
He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.
If I can have my macabre streak indulged for a moment -the nastiest thing about the way he died was the fact that the b@st@rds kept him alive for 3 weeks with his impending death hanging over him.
Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.
Electrocution -which is still carried out in various parts of the "civilised" world can take up to 18 minutes to kill the victim/prisoner under sentence. Take out the ad breaks and that's abot the length of an episode of the simpsons.
The father of Nick Berg -the american lad killed there a few months back -said his family took it as a source of some comfort that their son hadn't had a painful death.
There have been loads of threads about the invasion of Iraq, by and large vehemently anti-American. There are also plenty of threads (again, usually anti-American) Ah don't you start going on with this rubbish now...
Surely it would be much more accurate and truthful to say that threads/posts have been anti-American foreign policy/ anti-American government.
I would be highly critical of the present Government and President, so would that make me anti-Irish?
joeSoap
12/10/2004, 2:36 PM
Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.
Have you seen how they do this?? Its not like the head in the guillotine thing you see in old movies. Firstly they cut your throat from ear to ear, and while you're slowly dying, they proceed to hack your head off with a machete. It can last up to a half hour, and is quite gruesome..
Beheading, while messy and undoubtedley a mutilation, is probably the most humane form of execution -or in this case murder -that there is.
.F**k me...:rolleyes:
This is almost as ridiculous as the fool on RTE radio 1 on Sunday. When it was mentioned that Saudi Arabia beheads and removes limbs from people, this idiot came out with the comment that "Ahh but they do it (beheading) so much more humanely in Saudi".
Whether your head is "hacked" off, or an elecrtric saw is used, or even if you get sedated/anesthatised beforehand, there is no choice in the answer to the question "which way would you rather have your head removed from the rest of your body".......:rolleyes:
Lionel Ritchie
12/10/2004, 3:20 PM
Have you seen how they do this?? Its not like the head in the guillotine thing you see in old movies. Firstly they cut your throat from ear to ear, and while you're slowly dying, they proceed to hack your head off with a machete. It can last up to a half hour, and is quite gruesome..
No Joe I've never seen it done and I daresay it's a bit more than quite gruesome -however no-one who's had their throat cut from ear to ear dies slowly -death would occur within no more than a minute unless someone helps them keep the jugular closed which they'd be unlikely to manage themselves.
I've no problem believing it might take them half an hour to separate the head from the body. It's not an easy thing to do -as Lenny Murphys loyal sons of Ulster buddies in the Shankill Butchers would tell you.
One of the contributions to their eventual capture was the fact that they used hang around the crimescene so long trying to cut their victims heads off that they left loads of forensic evidence behind connecting themselves with the crime. they never managed to decapitate a single victim as the set of butchers cleavers they were using was missing it's largest blade -the one used for going through thick bone and cartilage.
He chose to put himself in harms way, for the money. To deny that is to deny the facts. The reason the money was so high was because of the risk.
Terrible that he died, terrible the way he died, but ultimately he did put himself in that situation.
spot on macy, very well said. of course killing him was wrong, but he put himself in danger.
Eanna, you have a rather blinkered view of Zionist Occupied Palestine. While I agree this state is illegal, what exactly have your Arab friends done to help their own people, apart from start a couple of wars? Roughly the same ammount of Jews have been turfed out of the Arab world since 1948 as Palestinians have in their own country. However while the ZOP government has taken these refugees in, built homes for them and given them jobs, leaders of Arab countries and their cronies have left their 'own people' to fester in their own filfth in refugee sites while they carry on lording it around the mediterranean in huge, f*ck off, ships. It's not like the Arab world is skint, is it?
I wouldn't say my view is blinkered, perhaps coloured by the fact that I have Palestinian friends and some of the stories they've told me make my blood boil. You're spot on about the leaders of many Arab countries, but it all comes back to the same point- US foreign policy. The Saudi regime is one of the most brutal, oppressive and murderous in the world, but they're nice and cosy with the US so we hear nothing about it. Same goes for Pakistan and the dictatorship there.
joeSoap
12/10/2004, 3:45 PM
. The Saudi regime is one of the most brutal, oppressive and murderous in the world, but they're nice and cosy with the US so we hear nothing about it.
Not since 9/11 they're not....
Not since 9/11 they're not....
not true. they're still cosy with the US. the US might have had a few harsh words to say about them, but it still has bases on Saudi.
gufcfan
12/10/2004, 4:59 PM
Maybe it's someone trying to make Billy Connolly feel even worse
Billy Connolly was wrong to have joked about ken bigley in the manner he did.
in fairness tho i dont know why people turned against him like that. he jokes about things worse than that on a regular basis. maybe not that regularly but, u know what i mean.
his timing was as bad as keane's alfie haaland 'tackle'
1 9 2 8
12/10/2004, 6:55 PM
Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?
Metrostars
12/10/2004, 8:26 PM
Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?
Don't worry, Eanna will show how manage to hijack these threads and turn them into a pro palestinian, anti israel and america is the cause of all the world problems thread.
BTW, the us soccer team get such nice welcomes in central america in world cup qualifying:
http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2004/0908_pan_usa_ajm/web_ajm_8003.jpg
http://www.ibiblio.org/footy/2004/0908_pan_usa_ajm/web_ajm_3662.jpg
Why do people always bring Palestine into topics about al qaeda they are to different topics?
They aren't. If the US wasn't supporting the Israeli government and the various fundamentalist regimes in Arab states such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, then its unlikely they would be so unpopular and that Al Qaeda would get support. Its all based on the same issue, anyone who denies that they're related is either lying or ignorant, or has been listening to US media and government.
Surely that's just hair splitting. I mean, would you have criticised the Vietnamese for chanting 'Yankees go home' rather than 'American soldiers sent here by the Government of Lyndon Baines Johnson, go home'?
I wasn't seeking to imply that there was something wrong about being anti-American as opposed to anti-American policy, I was just making the point that many of the posts seem to defend the actions of fanatical despots in the world of Muslim terrorism and take an anti-American/policy/Government/Dubya angle.Hair-splitting?
You are a lawyer, you know quite well the vast difference between a sweeping generalisation and an accurate description.
Your point about posts defending "fanatical despots" is fair enough, but too often a post pointing out the failings/lies/crimes of Western Governments is used as an excuse by some people to somehow "prove" that you are a friend/supporter of terrorism/fanatics.
BTW, the us soccer team get such nice welcomes in central america in world cup qualifying:
Maybe if successive American administrations had not been involved in some extremely shady and deadly dealings in these countries, the welcome would have been better?
On top of that, supporters of teams tend to do whatever they can to upset and annoy the opposition.
joeSoap
13/10/2004, 8:23 AM
Fact No.1.-The Americans started this conflict.
Fact No.2.-Tony Blair is an arse-licking coward who would do anything to stay in the US good books.
Fact No.3.-There is well paid work in Iraq for civilians, non-military personnel, and this provides a great opportunity for people like Bigley to earn some cash for the latter years of his life.
Fact No.4. Yes there is an element of danger attached.
Synopsis: Ken Bigley would still be alive today if Mr. Bush wasn't driven by his fathers demons, and also if Mr. Blair wasnt a yes man for him. He did not deserve to die, none of the innocent civilians in any conflict do.Anyone on here who is justifying this as an act of war or saying its his own fault is a very shallow individual, and those who call him greedy obviously have no families and money worries of their own to consider because if they did, then they'd surely understand why people like Mr. Bigley take these chances.
Shame on you all. :mad:
Shame on you all. :mad:
Why, because we dare to have a different opinion to you, that goes against the grain of the media hysteria?
joeSoap
13/10/2004, 8:55 AM
Why, because we dare to have a different opinion to you, that goes against the grain of the media hysteria?
Opinion is the key word there....and you all know mine now. I'm not saying you're not entitled to one.
Opinion is the key word there....and you all know mine now. I'm not saying you're not entitled to one.
But it doesn't make me shallow. IMO it would be shallow to risk your life, and potentially leaving the women you love a widow, for extra bucks. But again that's just my opinion.
My old man worked on oil tankers, and during the Iran Iraq war could've taken mega money to work the gulf. He wouldn't take the potential risk for the sake of the family, despite the fact that the money would've made us a hell of a lot better off....
green goblin
13/10/2004, 9:26 AM
News today is all about the mass graves in Iraq. Toddlers clutching toys, mothers holding babies, shot in the head, along with all the people who were gassed. Investigators think that 300,00 people were killed by Saddam's soldiers. That's 100 world trade centres. I honestly feel for Bigley's family, I really do, but Saddam was a f*cking monster.
Western intelligence was apalling; he had no suitcase sized nukes, no missiles primed with anthrax ready to hit Cyprus within 45 minutes. At best Bush and Blair are gullible, at worst they're outright liars. The war has been a b*lls up. They brought down the dictator, and left a huge sucking vaccum in his place. The American puppet administration probably won't last long,and the whole thing'll drag on forever.
The two women Bigley's murderers wanted released were germ and chemical warfare specialists. Same crowd who filled the graves with slaughtered innocents whose bodies they're digging out of the ground today. Letting them go right now really isn't an option. They need to stand trial.
Bigley was working in a ridiculously dangerous part of the world. The risks to his personal safety were incalculable. Westerners walking round in that part of the world right now are invaluable, either for political demands, or cash, which can be used to set up gangsters and warlords building their own empires in the post Saddam Iraq.
News today is all about the mass graves in Iraq. Toddlers clutching toys, mothers holding babies, shot in the head, along with all the people who were gassed. Investigators think that 300,00 people were killed by Saddam's soldiers. That's 100 world trade centres. I honestly feel for Bigley's family, I really do, but Saddam was a f*cking monster.
Thing is, a hell of a lot of that went on when Saddam was still a "good guy". There's been many many times when the US/UK should've gone after Saddam, with good reason. Instead they waited until it was convenient for the US, based on lie's...
joeSoap
13/10/2004, 9:44 AM
Agreed, and also does anyone else think that the Saddam issue was very personal for Bush because of his fathers inability to finish the job in '91?
Surely ridding the world of Al Qaida and Bin Laden should have been the priority at the time, not Saddam.
Having said that I'm gad he's out of the picture.Don't be surprised for them to 'capture' Bin Laden just before the election either. They could already have him in storage for emergencies in the polls... :D ;)
green goblin
13/10/2004, 10:07 AM
Thing is, a hell of a lot of that went on when Saddam was still a "good guy". There's been many many times when the US/UK should've gone after Saddam, with good reason. Instead they waited until it was convenient for the US, based on lie's...
Well, sadly that's true. When it comes to world leaders, we're never ever going to be short of w*nkers. He killed all these people when he was the West's bitch. He was a madman, but a secular madman, and Reagan and Thatcher thought he was a safe bet compared to a perceived wave of born again Muslims.
They pulled the same trick in South America don't forget, propping up torturers, liars and thieves with cash, guns and training, purely to stop the Reds. Pinnochet may yet still face justice for his crimes. And he was arrested coming out of Thatcher's house after afternoon tea.
They pulled the same trick in South America don't forget, propping up torturers, liars and thieves with cash, guns and training, purely to stop the Reds. Pinnochet may yet still face justice for his crimes. And he was arrested coming out of Thatcher's house after afternoon tea.
They are still attempting to pull that off. If anyone saw the excellent documentary on Chavez in Venezuela, and how what actually happened was portrayed by the US in particular, and the Venezuela right wing media compared to what actually did happen....
green goblin
13/10/2004, 10:25 AM
They are still attempting to pull that off. If anyone saw the excellent documentary on Chavez in Venezuela, and how what actually happened was portrayed by the US in particular, and the Venezuela right wing media compared to what actually did happen....
Didn't see it.
But, yes you're right. Same as it ever was...
Didn't see it.
But, yes you're right. Same as it ever was...
Chavez - Inside the Coup it was called. Think the BBC part funded it, so it should've been on the beeb at some point and will no doubt be repeated. Keep an eye out for it, as it is excellent.
ccfcman
13/10/2004, 10:43 AM
Bowling for Columbine was on RTÉ2 last Fri. night, highlighted amongst other things the way the US threw money at dictatorships in Guatemala [ I think], Iraq, Iran, Chile and Afghanistan. And of course it blew up in their faces.
green goblin
13/10/2004, 10:44 AM
Well about time,us in Europe started a new movement v.the US & their brand of Global Capitalism and v.Muslim Fundamentalism......
Both parties can have their views,but we should say F*ck-off to both,as it's put us all in the sh*t,being a 'target' & 'guilt by association'......plus they're as intolerant as each other!
Too right fella!
I'm personally all for us putting every Euro of the Celtic Tiger economy into supporting Branson's space mission to the hilt, and us all fecking off to build the colony of New Hibernia on Mars, thus re-painting the red planet green, and finally populating it with millions of actual little green men. F*ck the lot of 'em, we're out of here!
What about Irish soldiers who go overseas, like the UNIFIL troops in South Lebanon with the Israeli Army on one side and the Lebanese on the other. None of them went for some deep rooted belief about world peace, they all got extra pay and entered potentially dangerous and hostile situations. Are they less deserving of sympathy? Was it shallow of them to risk their lives and potentially leaving their families without a husband/father for a few extra bucks?
They are soldiers that's their job. So if they get caught up in fighting and happen to die, well then that was a potential side effect of their career choice. Or did they just join up to make a deafness claim?
I just don't believe it. Ken Bigley was taken hostage for weeks and then beheaded by savage fanatics, and somehow you think his income and career prospects are relevant to some degree. I can't agree at all.
No, the reason he was out there in the first place is relevant, IMO. Which was to make a financial killing, because he was essentially getting danger money. Unfortunately, he found out what the risks were.
I dare say me or you could get a job out there for big bucks. I won't because the risks are too great, despite the fact the mortgage could be paid off in a year or two.
Well about time,us in Europe started a new movement v.the US & their brand of Global Capitalism and v.Muslim Fundamentalism......
Both parties can have their views,but we should say F*ck-off to both,as it's put us all in the sh*t,being a 'target' & 'guilt by association'......plus they're as intolerant as each other!
spot on davros. I made this point to some Americans in a politics tutorial in college once. They were going on about the evils of fundamentalism, what they don't appreciate is that their country is fundamentalist too-the US is based on fundamentalist capitalism and the belief that their system is best and everyone should do the same as them. Al Qaeda believe Islamic fundamentalism is best and everyone should do the same. They are two extremes, and extremism won't solve anything. They both have justifiable grievances with the other, but finding a middle ground is the only possible solution.
They are still attempting to pull that off. If anyone saw the excellent documentary on Chavez in Venezuela, and how what actually happened was portrayed by the US in particular, and the Venezuela right wing media compared to what actually did happen....
Saw that yeah. And the US calls itself a democracy :rolleyes: Its so similar to their participation in the overthrow and murder of Salvador Allende in Chile in 73.
So if a civil servant dies of deep vein thrombosis caused by lying in the same position for 8 hours a day, it's just tough?
well if he is warned that continuing his job might lead to it and has the chance to another job but says "No, I'll take the risk, the money here is better" then yeah, tough.
I just don't believe it. Ken Bigley was taken hostage for weeks and then beheaded by savage fanatics, and somehow you think his income and career prospects are relevant to some degree. I can't agree at all.
Conor, you're an intelligent guy, its relevance is staring you in the face.It is precisely because of his income/career that he put himself in the position in the first place. that doesn't make it, or justifiable or acceptable. But it is connected.
DolansWaistcoat
13/10/2004, 1:31 PM
One of the lads at work had the web site which showed Bigley and the Americans being beheaded,I wish I hadn't watched it now because it was the most disturbing thing I have ever seen.The people who did this to another human being are nothing but animals who deserve nothing but a worse death themselves.
green goblin
13/10/2004, 1:51 PM
One of the lads at work had the web site which showed Bigley and the Americans being beheaded,I wish I hadn't watched it now because it was the most disturbing thing I have ever seen.The people who did this to another human being are nothing but animals who deserve nothing but a worse death themselves.
Oh Christ, you can't see things like that without being damaged by it. People, just don't. Please.
Thing is, they're not animals, they're people like you and I, and that's what makes it even worse. If it was a .mov of some guy being eaten alive by a crocodile it'd almost be better in a dreadful way, if you know what I mean. An animal doesn't have a choice, it's just doing what it does to survive. The fckers who killed Bigley had a choice.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.