Is this the weakest Irish team in memory?

[Colbert Report]

I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams. Is this the worst team we've ever had, historically speaking?

[Yard of Pace]

Twas probably less than a decade ago we had way less EPL starters to choose from.

[peadar1987]

I think it's pretty weak, not because of the depth of the squad, we have plenty of players playing at a decent championship or even premier league level, but because of the lack of match-winners and game-savers. This is the first time I can remember Ireland being without a McGrath, Keane, other Keane at the height of his powers, Duff, Dunne, Staunton, Given... I don't really think the "filler" is any worse than it was. Doyle and Walters, for example, are as good as Morrison, and better than Doherty. Andrews is as good as Kavanagh. McGeady is as good as Lawrence or Gary Kelly on the right. We just don't have the stand-out players who can turn a solid team into a good one.

[tetsujin1979]

we can still field a team with
Coleman O'Shea Clark Wilson
McGeady Whelan Gibson McCarthy
Long Walters

I think the depth of talent isn't there, but there's certainly more Premier League players available. Think I read somewhere that Ireland are third behind France and England in terms of number of players on Premier League squads?

[Bungle]

I would say that on paper we have a pretty decent batch of good premiership players like Hoolahan, Pilks, Long, McCarthy, Walters, Wilson, Coleman and Gibson. Certainly not a batch of players to be sniffed at. We also have a few players like Westwood and The Saint who will do a job for you against most international teams.

What we don't have is world class players. Around 2001/2002 for example, we had Keane (Roy), Given, Duff and possibly Carr. Then we had Robbie Keane who was on his day world class. Then we had guys like Harte and Kelly who were getting in Premiership end of season elevens.

[Crosby87]

On 28/10/1980 the FAI was able to get players released from English clubs for the first time according to wiki.
They lost to FR 2-0.
The starting lineup was:
Gerry Peyton
David Langan
Mark Lawrenson
C Hughton
Kevin Moran
T Grealish
Mick Martin
L Brady
Steve Heighway (a hot rod enthusiast no doubt)
F Stapleton (Would later become a super sub)
Mike Robinson (was actually Czech not Irish)
and...Gerry Ryan (not of star trek) came on as a sub. Eion Hand was the manager i believe.

[peadar1987]

we can still field a team with
Coleman O'Shea Clark Wilson
McGeady Whelan Gibson McCarthy
Long Walters

I think the depth of talent isn't there, but there's certainly more Premier League players available. Think I read somewhere that Ireland are third behind France and England in terms of number of players on Premier League squads?

The problem is, other nations have plenty of players in La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, and the Bundesliga as well, which we don't have. Just looking at the EPL gives a skewed picture.

[Stuttgart88]

Is this the worst team we've ever had, historically speaking?As opposed to what other way of speaking?

[Yard of Pace]

The problem is, other nations have plenty of players in La Liga, Serie A, Ligue 1, and the Bundesliga as well, which we don't have. Just looking at the EPL gives a skewed picture.

I think we've already discussed the strength of the Irish squad versus the Swedish squad and the consensus was that, Zlatan aside, our squad is pound for pound on a fairly level par with what they have at their disposal. Looking at Austria's squad, I'd say the same.

It's a shame we've no world class player(s) at the moment but plenty of international sides would probably give their right arm for some of our players and any manager worth his salt should be able to fashion a decent side out of what we have, imo.

[TheBoss]

I think it is safe to say the team from 1967-1972 was the worst, they did not win a game for 4 & half years !!!, they won on the 22/11/1967 against Czechoslovakia and their next win was 18/06/1972 against Iran. In all, that was 20 games without a win.

[pineapple stu]

As opposed to what other way of speaking?
Tattoos?

[Charlie Darwin]

Uh, I'd say the current Irish team have achieved more than most Irish teams have. So, no, they're not the weakest.

[Colbert Report]

Uh, I'd say the current Irish team have achieved more than most Irish teams have. So, no, they're not the weakest.

Perhaps a better way for me to ask the question would have been:

Is this the weakest group of players an Irish manager has had to pick from in a very long time?

This current Irish team has achieved nothing. This current Irish team didn't qualify for the Euros. That team had Given, Dunne, and Duff in it.

[Charlie Darwin]

OK, I get you. The answer is still no. We've had plenty of groups of players weaker than this. We're undoubtedly weaker in goal without Given and Duff has yet to be convincingly replaced, but Dunne has only really done the business for us since Trap took over. Our striking options are possibly the best they've ever been, we have good wingers, a couple of good full backs and some promising midfielders. Whether Trap is selecting the right players or getting the best out of them... I'd say he's not, but it's a good crop of players, something we've not always been blessed with. We've also got a good crop of players coming through from the U19s and U21s who are actually playing regularly at a good level and showing signs of breaking into the senior team, and we haven't always had players who could make a smooth transition from underage to senior football.

[BonnieShels]

Think I read somewhere that Ireland are third behind France and England in terms of number of players on Premier League squads?

You're correct.

Have gander at www.transfermarkt.de

A wonderful site.

[Murfinator]

I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams.

The funny part to this is its also the weakest Premiership in memory.

[back of the net]

This current Irish team has achieved nothing. This current Irish team didn't qualify for the Euros. That team had Given, Dunne, and Duff in it.



there is quite a bit of truth in that Colbert

[paul_oshea]

There isnt its like saying a team that played one game in autumn has achieved nothing, this "team", what team? the last 6 months? The last 3 games? What players? It hasnt been a consistent team since the Euros. This thread is completely pointless.

I think what he was originally trying to say was Traps Team, and then he decided to take out Duff, Dunne, Given. Even if he is talking about the squad they haven't been together a wet week!

[back of the net]

There isnt its like saying a team that played one game in autumn has achieved nothing, this "team", what team? the last 6 months? The last 3 games? What players? It hasnt been a consistent team since the Euros. This thread is completely pointless.

I think what he was originally trying to say was Traps Team, and then he decided to take out Duff, Dunne, Given. Even if he is talking about the squad they haven't been together a wet week!

consistent or not, with Dunne, Duff, Given gone and players like coleman, mccarthy , brady, westwood, wilson starting to force their way into the first team - i would view it as a new team.....even if they only are together a wet week.

Although I do somewhat agree the thread is a bit pointless, but equally i would view it as a a potentially new team

[Irish_Praha]

Difficult to directly compare because there were still some class players in the WC 1998 squad but they were mostly past it and if you look at some of the players who got capped you would have to say our strenght in depth is better now.
A close call and the first team was probably better than now but I would say this was a worse squad when you consider the ages of the players and the ones that replaced them when they were injured. Also this was not the keane of the WC 2002 qualifiers.

Player Appearances
Tony Cascarino 12

Ian Harte 11

Jeff Kenna 10
Steve Staunton 10
Andy Townsend 10

Alan McLoughlin 9

Kenny Cunningham 8

Mark Kennedy 7
Roy Keane 7
David Connolly 7
Shay Given 7
Denis Irwin 7
Ray Houghton 7

Gary Breen 6
Gary Kelly 6
Jason McAteer 6

Alan Kelly 5
David Kelly 5

Phil Babb 3
Alan Moore 3
Jon Goodman 3
Lee Carsley 3
Keith O'Neill 3

Niall Quinn 2
Terry Phelan 2
Curtis Flemming 2

Liam O'Brien 1
Tommy Coyne 1
Mickey Evans 1
Kevin Kilbane 1
John Aldridge 1

[tetsujin1979]

I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams.
Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

[BonnieShels]

And of those I count an optimistic 13 That may get into an Irish Trap squad.

[Colbert Report]

Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

Your list is very misleading. For example, for this season, Duff, Gibson and Steven Reid are not available for selection. Players like Enda Stevens and Marc Tierney are hardly future Ireland players. Jay Tabb is a bum. Robert Elliot has never played for us at the senior level.

[SkStu]

They're your parameters CR.




Originally Posted by Colbert Report
I honestly can't remember a time when we had so few players starting for Premiership teams.

[Crosby87]

Poor Jay Tabb. Does he at least pay it when he goes out drinking with his mates?

[osarusan]

Was wondering this myself, so I got the list of Irish players who started at least one Premier League game in each season for each the last seven seasons.

2006-2007: 24
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Derek Geary, Shay Given, Matt Holland, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Paddy Kenny, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Alan O'Brien, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Stephen Quinn, Alan Quinn, Darren Randolph, Andy Reid, Steven Reid

2007-2008: 27
Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, David Connolly, Colin Doyle, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Kevin Kilbane, Shane Long, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, Roy O'Donovan, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Anthony Stokes

2008-2009: 24
Keith Andrews, Rory Delap, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Caleb Folan, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Dean Kiely, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Paul McShane, Liam Miller, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Keith Treacy, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2009-2010: 32
Keith Andrews, Stephen Carr, Lee Carsley, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Steve Finnan, Caleb Folan, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Andy Keogh, Kevin Kilbane, Liam Lawrence, Chris McCann, James McCarthy, Paul McShane, David Meyler, Daryl Murphy, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Andy Reid, Steven Reid, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2010-2011: 27
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Stephen Carr, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Richard Dunne, Keith Fahey, Kevin Foley, Darron Gibson, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, James McCarthy, David Meyler, Andy O'Brien, John O'Shea, Steven Reid, Andy Reid, Conor Sammon, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2011-2012: 34
Keith Andrews, Leon Best, Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Simon Cox, Rory Delap, Kevin Doyle, Damien Duff, Shane Duffy, Richard Dunne, Kevin Foley, Anthony Forde, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Wes Hoolahan, Stephen Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Robbie Keane, Stephen Kelly, Paddy Kenny, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, David Meyler, John O'Shea, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Conor Sammon, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Stephen Ward, Keiren Westwood, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilson

2012-2013: 25
Ciaran Clark, Seamus Coleman, Damien Duff, Robert Elliot, Darron Gibson, Shay Given, Ian Harte, Wes Hoolahan, Noel Hunt, Stephen Ireland, Stephen Kelly, Shane Long, James McCarthy, James McClean, Joey O'Brien, John O'Shea, Alex Pearce, Anthony Pilkington, Steven Reid, Enda Stevens, Jay Tabb, Marc Tierney, Jonathan Walters, Glenn Whelan, Marc Wilsoninteresting list. Is it too much trouble to ask you to refine the list to players who have started 5 or more games each season?

[tetsujin1979]

interesting list. Is it too much trouble to ask you to refine the list to players who have started 5 or more games each season?
nope, pretty simple actually. The numbers after each player is their total number of starts in the Premier League that season, but note this is not their total starts for the season, e.g. Richard Dunne actually started 44 games in 2006-2007 including cup games
I worked out the average number of starts per player for the players listed, i.e. it does not include the games started by players with less than 5 starts

2006-2007(20)
Average starts: 22.5
Lee Carsley(38), Richard Dunne(38), Paddy Kenny(34), Steve Finnan(32), Stephen Hunt(28), Kevin Doyle(28), Kevin Kilbane(28), Matt Holland(27), Derek Geary(26), Stephen Carr(23), Shay Given(22), Damien Duff(20), Robbie Keane(18), John O'Shea(16), Stephen Quinn(15), Andy Reid(15), Stephen Ireland(14), Alan Quinn(11), Shane Long(9), Caleb Folan(8)

2007-2008(22)
Average starts: 22.18
Stephen Kelly(38), Stephen Hunt(37), Richard Dunne(35), Kevin Doyle(34), Lee Carsley(33), Kevin Kilbane(33), Robbie Keane(32), Stephen Ireland(31), Andy O'Brien(31), Steve Finnan(21), Paul McShane(20), Steven Reid(20), Daryl Murphy(19), Shay Given(19), Liam Miller(16), Joey O'Brien(15), Damien Duff(12), John O'Shea(10), Andy Reid(10), Anthony Stokes(8), Stephen Carr(7), Shane Long(7)

2008-2009(16)
Average starts: 23.5
Shay Given(37), Rory Delap(34), Stephen Ireland(34), Richard Dunne(31), Andy O'Brien(30), Robbie Keane(30), Damien Duff(28), Keith Andrews(27), Glenn Whelan(21), Andy Reid(20), John O'Shea(20), Liam Lawrence(18), Kevin Kilbane(18), Paul McShane(17), Daryl Murphy(6), Joey O'Brien(5)

2009-2010(29)
Average starts: 19.55
Richard Dunne(37), Shay Given(35), Stephen Carr(35), Rory Delap(34), Kevin Doyle(33), Damien Duff(30), Stephen Hunt(27), Marc Wilson(27), Paul McShane(26), Glenn Whelan(25), Kevin Foley(23), Keith Andrews(22), Steve Finnan(19), James McCarthy(19), Stephen Ward(18), Keith Fahey(18), Andy Reid(17), Stephen Ireland(16), Robbie Keane(15), Kevin Kilbane(15), Liam Lawrence(14), John O'Shea(12), David Meyler(9), Andy Keogh(8), Caleb Folan(7), Chris McCann(7), Stephen Kelly(7), Andy O'Brien(6), Darron Gibson(6)

2010-2011(22)
Average starts: 19.18
Stephen Carr(38), Richard Dunne(31), Rory Delap(31), Kevin Foley(30), Stephen Ward(27), Kevin Doyle(25), Jonathan Walters(25), Seamus Coleman(24), James McCarthy(23), Damien Duff(22), Marc Wilson(20), Keith Fahey(19), John O'Shea(18), Ciaran Clark(15), Stephen Hunt(14), Steven Reid(13), Glenn Whelan(12), Leon Best(9), Stephen Kelly(8), Stephen Ireland(6), Robbie Keane(6), Darron Gibson(6)

2011-2012(31)
Average starts: 20.9
Stephen Ward(38), Jonathan Walters(38), Marc Wilson(35), Paddy Kenny(33), James McCarthy(33), Shay Given(32), John O'Shea(29), Richard Dunne(28), Glenn Whelan(27), Kevin Doyle(26), Wes Hoolahan(25), Shane Long(24), Damien Duff(23), Anthony Pilkington(23), Steven Reid(21), Stephen Kelly(21), James McClean(20), Stephen Ireland(19), Rory Delap(18), Marc Tierney(17), Stephen Hunt(16), Leon Best(16), Seamus Coleman(14), Ciaran Clark(13), Darron Gibson(12), Kevin Foley(11), Keiren Westwood(8), Conor Sammon(8), Keith Andrews(8), Simon Cox(7), Robbie Keane(5)

2012-2013(22)
Average starts: 15.95
Jonathan Walters(27), James McCarthy(27), Ciaran Clark(25), Glenn Whelan(24), John O'Shea(23), Joey O'Brien(21), Wes Hoolahan(21), Anthony Pilkington(20), Damien Duff(19), James McClean(18), Shane Long(18), Alex Pearce(14), Ian Harte(13), Seamus Coleman(13), Darron Gibson(12), Jay Tabb(12), Marc Wilson(10), Stephen Ireland(9), Steven Reid(8), Noel Hunt(6), Enda Stevens(6), Stephen Kelly(5)

[Charlie Darwin]

Interesting that every player who's played this season has made a league appearance, something none of the other years come close to replicating. Perhaps a result of smaller squads in the Premier League.

[tetsujin1979]

Interesting that every player who's played this season has made a league appearance, something none of the other years come close to replicating. Perhaps a result of smaller squads in the Premier League.
not sure I follow you there, are you saying that there are no players in a Premier League squad who have only made cup appearances, like say Pantilimon at Man City who's only played in their cup games?
Burke at Villa has only played in League Cup games for them, he's been on the bench in three league games, but hasn't come on

[Charlie Darwin]

You're right, I completely misread the numbers.

[Colbert Report]

They're your parameters CR.

That's my whole point. These players aren't starting for Premiership teams. A starter isn't someone who has started one of thirty-eight matches.

[tetsujin1979]

That's my whole point. These players aren't starting for Premiership teams. A starter isn't someone who has started one of thirty-eight matches.how many games do they need to start before they are considered a "starter"?

[Crosby87]

in CRs defense "are they first choice" is what i think he is getting at.

[Colbert Report]

how many games do they need to start before they are considered a "starter"?

That's a very subjective thing, but I don't understand how anyone could consider Jay Tabb a "starter" for Reading despite the fact that he's likely to have started 12 out of their 38 matches by the end of the season. I mean, he hasn't played for them in any capacity for months and he's on loan now to a Championship side. Now, Marc Wilson has also started 12 matches for Stoke so far but I would consider him a starter because he was out with injury and that's why he missed so many games. There's more to life than simply stats.

The fact is, five to ten years ago we had players who were doing the business week in and week out for top sides like Chelsea, Spurs, and Manchester United. Now, James McCarthy is about the only player we have who one could argue could compete for a starting place with any top-six EPL team.

[Charlie Darwin]

When were Chelsea and Spurs top sides?

[Colbert Report]

Uh, Chelsea won the Champions League less than a year ago.

[Charlie Darwin]

I meant in the past decade like you stipulated. Chelsea have been a top team since Duff was in the side, granted, but Spurs were always a second or third-tier English team while we had players there. Saying we had players at top teams like Spurs a decade ago is about as useful as saying we had players at Manchester City a decade ago. All credit to Stephen Kelly but he wasn't a great player when he was starting for Spurs and he's not a great player now.

[Colbert Report]

I meant in the past decade like you stipulated. Chelsea have been a top team since Duff was in the side, granted, but Spurs were always a second or third-tier English team while we had players there. Saying we had players at top teams like Spurs a decade ago is about as useful as saying we had players at Manchester City a decade ago. All credit to Stephen Kelly but he wasn't a great player when he was starting for Spurs and he's not a great player now.

We had Robbie Keane, Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly at Spurs. Spurs then were a whole lot better than the LA Galaxy, Nottingham Forest or Reading are now.

[Colbert Report]

We had players like Roy Keane at Manchester United, Steve Finnan at Liverpool, Damien Duff at Chelsea. Those were the top three sides in 2005-06. We have no players at these clubs now.

[Charlie Darwin]

We had Robbie Keane, Andy Reid and Stephen Kelly at Spurs. Spurs then were a whole lot better than the LA Galaxy, Nottingham Forest or Reading are now.
So? Spurs weren't a top team. What's happened there is we had three players at a middling Premier League club who have since declined as players.

Over the past five years, the only players we've had at top teams were Keane (for one unsuccessful season), John O'Shea (important player until his legs started to go), Gibson (bit-part player) and Brady (one substitute appearance).

[nigel-harps1954]

We could easily put out a side who could compete on the international stage. Not in any way suggesting we have a team of potential world cup winners, but if we had a manager who lacked incompetence and a had a slight grasp of the modern game, while utilising properly the players available to him, we wouldn't have to think twice about beating Sweden and Austria.

Trap has his past, has had his day, lifted his trophies, and has had a wonderful career. But it's time for him to go. Pass on the proverbial baton to the newer generation.

We need a manager who gives us a completely fresh approach, starts completely from scratch, and doesn't stick with favouritism.

We also need a manager who is physically capable of watching matches week in, week out.

It was refreshing to see Trap finally watching a League of Ireland match at the weekend also, but he was only there because he happened to be in Dublin at the time. 5 years too late in my opinion.

We have good solid players, playing every week at Premier League level that are being woefully overlooked in squads and starting teams.


In short, to answer the original question posed in the thread, I believe the current squads and teams being picked is probably one of the weakest in memory.

However, it shouldn't be.

A potential 23 man squad:

Goalkeepers:
Elliot, Westwood, Bunn

Defenders:
Clark, Coleman, Dunne, Kelly, Wilson, O'Brien, S.Reid, O'Shea

Midfielders:
McGeady, McCarthy, Whelan, McClean, Hoolahan, Pilkington, Gibson, Brady,

Attackers:
Long, Walters, Keane, N. Hunt.


Only one of that squad plays outside of the Premier League (and the obvious McGeady), most of which are regular players on their respective teams. There are obvious exclusions from the squad (the doc won't be happy about one of them), but a manager has to make big decisions, and a player playing regularly at a high level has to be looked at over favouritism or people he knows better. It wouldn't happen in any other country where a player playing in the highest division gets overlooked for someone a division lower.

Out of that squad, you'd have a team something like:

Bunn

Coleman Dunne O'Shea Wilson

McGeady Gibson McCarthy McClean

Walters Long



(I know there are the likes of Bunn and Elliot, who have yet to officially declare allegiance, but even with Westwood, you have a perfectly capable Premier Division goalkeeper.)

[Colbert Report]

So? Spurs weren't a top team. What's happened there is we had three players at a middling Premier League club who have since declined as players.

Over the past five years, the only players we've had at top teams were Keane (for one unsuccessful season), John O'Shea (important player until his legs started to go), Gibson (bit-part player) and Brady (one substitute appearance).


That's my whole point. The pool of players we have to choose from is the weakest I've seen since I started watching the Irish team in the 80s.

[Charlie Darwin]

It was refreshing to see Trap finally watching a League of Ireland match at the weekend also, but he was only there because he happened to be in Dublin at the time. 5 years too late in my opinion.
Incidentally, and I'm not being jealous or having a go at Pats, but why is it Trap only ever goes to Pats games? I remember he went to Dalyer once too and hilariously tipped Conor Powell to make the step up to international level (does he have a Belfast granny?) but apart from that I've only ever seen him at Richer.



A potential 23 man squad:

Goalkeepers:
Elliot, Westwood, Bunn

Defenders:
Clark, Coleman, Dunne, Kelly, Wilson, O'Brien, S.Reid, O'Shea

Midfielders:
McGeady, McCarthy, Whelan, McClean, Hoolahan, Pilkington, Gibson, Brady,

Attackers:
Long, Walters, Keane, N. Hunt.


Only one of that squad plays outside of the Premier League (and the obvious McGeady), most of which are regular players on their respective teams. There are obvious exclusions from the squad (the doc won't be happy about one of them), but a manager has to make big decisions, and a player playing regularly at a high level has to be looked at over favouritism or people he knows better. It wouldn't happen in any other country where a player playing in the highest division gets overlooked for someone a division lower.
Why do they have to be Premier League players though? The fact is that some of our Championship players are better than their Premier League equivalents, and this has been the case for a few years. We don't have such a high class of player that we can make the distinction.[/QUOTE]


That's my whole point. The pool of players we have to choose from is the weakest I've seen since I started watching the Irish team in the 80s.
And I'm saying that our players aren't playing at a lower level than they were 5 or 10 years ago, with the exception of a couple of top, top players who have succumbed to gradual decline through age and haven't yet been replaced. Our younger players (Hendrick, Brady, etc) are playing at a lower level, but increasingly the best players in England and beyond are making the grade below PL level before later making the jump. We can even look at our own 'Pilks' for evidence.

[tetsujin1979]

Bunn

Coleman Dunne O'Shea Wilson

McGeady Gibson McCarthy McClean

Walters Long

There's very little difference between that team and the team that started against the Faroes


Westwood
Coleman O'Dea O'Shea Wilson
McGeady Andrews McCarthy Brady
Walters Keane

[Stuttgart88]

if we had a manager who lacked incompetence and a had a slight grasp of the modern game, while utilising properly the players available to him, we wouldn't have to think twice about beating Sweden and Austria. Sweden in particular is a very bold statement and probably Austria too - who are getting better.

[paul_oshea]

There's very little difference between that team and the team that started against the Faroes


Westwood
Coleman O'Dea O'Shea Wilson
McGeady Andrews McCarthy Brady
Walters Keane

eh, almost half, 5. That's quite a difference.

Westwood, odea, andrews, brady and keane out. Bunn, Dunne, Andrews, Brady and Long in. OR do you mean there isn't much difference between his 4-4-2 system and Traps Faroes 4-4-2 system ;-)

[tetsujin1979]

eh, almost half, 5. That's quite a difference.

Westwood, odea, andrews, brady and keane out. Bunn, Dunne, Andrews, Brady and Long in. OR do you mean there isn't much difference between his 4-4-2 system and Traps Faroes 4-4-2 system ;-)
I meant in terms of talent or ability.
It's hard to compare Westwood and Bunn at the moment
I'd pick Dunne over O'Dea, although he was injured at the time and probably would have started otherwise
Brady over McClean, clearly has offered more in the last few games
Gibson over Andrews, although he was injured at the time and probably wouldn't have been in the squad anyway
It's a judgement call between Keane and Long right now

Basically, the biggest difference between the side nigel picked and the side Trapattoni sent out is Gibson

[Murfinator]

The subject is bound to be discussed in depth in the mainstream in the coming years but it's something worth touching on around the topic of the decline of the premier league and what that means for Ireland given that virtually all our players are in the English system. There's a very good reason why all the teams who have their players predominantly in the EPL have been so poor technically in recent years and all seem to be getting worse.
Our squads present and more worryingly future are tied to a sinking ship, I wonder what the FAI plans to do about that and promoting connections with the Bundesliga and La Liga. SFA probably:rolleyes:

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd say the EPL system is more broken than the English system as a whole. I think I mentioned earlier that most of the best technical players in Britain right now are coming through the academies at lower-tier clubs.

[Colbert Report]

The subject is bound to be discussed in depth in the mainstream in the coming years but it's something worth touching on around the topic of the decline of the premier league and what that means for Ireland given that virtually all our players are in the English system. There's a very good reason why all the teams who have their players predominantly in the EPL have been so poor technically in recent years and all seem to be getting worse.
Our squads present and more worryingly future are tied to a sinking ship, I wonder what the FAI plans to do about that and promoting connections with the Bundesliga and La Liga. SFA probably:rolleyes:

The FAI are a joke of an organisation who couldn't organize a booze up in a brewery.

A sinking ship? Are you sure about that? I expect the Premier League to get even better with the new TV deal kicking in and more players like Suarez coming to England to make the big money. How much money would a player like Stephen Ireland be on if he was with a German team? Maybe half?