Irish team v France

[Peadar]

Keanes penalty against Cyprus didn't paper over what was a shocking performance from him on the day.

If anything he was worse against Switzerland.
I hate being critical of our own players when I'm at a game but far too often we were left shaking our heads in disbelief thinking 'WTF? Take him off.'

I know how good he can be on his day so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and want to see him start against France.
He has to come off if he doesn't look sharp though.
Too much is at stake.

[Littlest Hobo]

He played well in one game, was average in all the others....whoop di doo. Fair enough, you think Keane should be in on what he's achieved so far, I don't, I think he should be judged on current form. Much the same way that Owen and Beckham should be dropped for England, but never are, no matter how they perform. They have both been abysmal as well in international football over the last year, and England have suffered as a consequence.

Keanes penalty against Cyprus didn't paper over what was a shocking performance from him on the day. Away to France we can't afford to have Robbie fannying on the ball if he's not on form, a la the Cyprus game. Lets see how he does between now and Oct 9th for Spurs, but he'd want to start picking things up as he's playing poor stuff at the moment.


Talking through your rusty bullet hole there amigo....
Without robbie, were pronto fooked.

[Condex]

He was our best player, he played as well as he could given the performance of the team.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/shamrockrovers/story.asp?newsid=1880

Yip remember it now, he played just OK tried to it all himself and as often as not lost the ball. That is not what I call playing well.

[eirebhoy]

Yip remember it now, he played just OK tried to it all himself and as often as not lost the ball. That is not what I call playing well.
I never said he played well but he should be judged on other player's performances as that is what a forward plays off. If the players around him aren't performing you can hardly expect him to go out and set the world alight. He was our best player that night.

He scored tonight BTW.

[keenanboy]

I reckon he could go for this team

1. Given

2. Carr 3. Finnan

4. Cunnigham 5. O'Brien


7. Andy Reid 6. Keane 8. O'Shea 11. Kilbane

9. Duff

10. R. Keane

[Slash/ED]

I really, really hope he doesn't go with Duff up front. Anything but that, and he surley can't/wont drop Morrison now.

[brine3]

Given

Carr - O'Brien - Cunningham - Finnan

A Reid - Keane - O'Shea - Duff

Keane - Clinton

And whatever formation is picked, have the team train on passing the ball all week long - they couldn't pass over three yards against the Swiss.

[inexile]

i dont see any thing wrong with playing one up front and id have keane before morrison because morrison has the first touch of a rapist and possession will be crucial in paris and the last thing they need is to win possession and lose it cos Clints touch is bad... dont get me wrong i like the guy and i think he will do a job in other matches just not this one

for the record the team i would go for is
Given
Carr O'Brien Cunningham O'Shea
Finnan Keane Kilbane Duff
Reid
Keane

[KR's Post]

Its got to be....... Shay, carr, obrien, kenny,finnan, duff, kilbane, o'shea, Roy keane, Robbie and clinto. Oshea playin in the middle of the park....

[inexile]

i dont agree with playing a left sider on the right wing even though andy reid did well there against Cyprus he didnt spend much time there he came in field a lot which is why i think he might be better off in behind the front man... as for playing duff on the right side i know he had done well there b4 but i am probably being old fashioned when i want to see us have a left midfielder on the left and a right footer on the right IMO the team will be better balanced

[thejollyrodger]

My line up would be

___________________Given
Carr________O Brien_______Cunningham____Finnan
Finnan________Keane______O Shet_________Duff
____________Robbie________Clinton


that all depends on who is playing well but if the match was tomorrow.

[Kowalski]

Given
Carr
O'Brien
Cunnigham
Finnan
O'Shea
Keane
Kilbane
Duff
Keane
Macken


I know its a risk putting in Macken for his competitive debut against the French but hes been doing well at city & the french center halves arent the best in the air & macken offers more on the ground than doherty.

[Fergie's Son]

O'Shea was fairly anonymous today for United against Spurs. Would hardly consider playing him in the midfield against the French.

[tricky_colour]

My line up would be

___________________Given
Carr________O Brien_______Cunningham____Finnan
Finnan________Keane______O Shet_________Duff
____________Robbie________Clinton


that all depends on who is playing well but if the match was tomorrow.

Finnan will be a bit stretched playing at left back and at right wiing
I would imagine. :p

However Keane and O'Shea in midfield is an interesting propersition.
I think finan is better on the right wing maybe but I would like
to get Andy Reid into the side too so maybe A Reid on the right
wing and Finnan as left back.

If O Shea is good enough for Man U in the midfield I guess he should
be good enough for us, plus we would have two players from a top
club playing togeather so they should form a good understanding.

[thejollyrodger]

Sorry i was meant to put in Reid in the right side of midfield. But he really needs to get regular first team football.

O Shea gets the nod just because he is getting regular first team football but doesnt look great this season. I could imagine him being offloaded. Another option would be to drop O Shea and put in Kilbane in the center of the park.

Elliot should be included in the squad at least since he is playing well, but I would still give Clinton a run up front. Its too early for Elliot yet.

[eirebhoy]

Sorry i was meant to put in Reid in the right side of midfield. But he really needs to get regular first team football.

O Shea gets the nod just because he is getting regular first team football but doesnt look great this season. I could imagine him being offloaded. Another option would be to drop O Shea and put in Kilbane in the center of the park.

Elliot should be included in the squad at least since he is playing well, but I would still give Clinton a run up front. Its too early for Elliot yet.
Reid is starting for Forest just now against West Ham, Sky Sports 1.

Kavanagh is 3 times the midfielder that O'Shea is at this moment in time IMHO. He scored Cardiff's winner yesterday too.

Elliott won't be called up until he's capped in a friendly. Why take him out of the U21's to put him on the first team bench? I'd prefer the U21's qualifying for the European Championships for the first time in history than the main team having that little bit more strenght in depth.

[thejollyrodger]

Heard about Reid playing in Forest. He set up the winning goal and played well. Kerr will probably play him but to be honest, I have massive doubts about this player. Friendlies are one thing, even playing crap international teams are another but playing against half decent teams is another thing altogether. I would start him but would have someone like finnan ready to take over if things doesnt work out on the right.

O shea's biggest attribute is that he is playing for Man Utd. Apart from that there isnt much difference between him and Hearte. Kavanagh seems like a better player but the level he is playing might not be enough for Paris.

I would rather get 1 or even 3 points in Paris that have the U-21's in the European Championships.

[eirebhoy]

I would rather get 1 or even 3 points in Paris that have the U-21's in the European Championships.
I certainly wouldn't. If Elliott was going to start, fair enough but he is not going to give us a bigger chance of qualifying by keeping the bench warm. The U21's qualifying would be fantastic, televised, excuse for a party, etc. :)

[Condex]

Kavanagh seems like a better player but the level he is playing might not be enough for Paris.

Would that be the same Kavanagh inspiring Cardiff to the foot of Div1.

[thejollyrodger]

If Clinton or Robbie (realisitcally our two best strikers) are injured then we are screwed. Elliot looks to be in form and I can see him continue to score goals between now and Paris. Starting on the bench would mean we would have a realistic option up front should robbie or clinton pick up an injury or be out of form on the day. Kerr will probably call him up over the likes of Macken.

I thought there was only 1 kavanagh. Yeah the smae one ur on about

[eirebhoy]

Elliot looks to be in form and I can see him continue to score goals between now and Paris. Starting on the bench would mean we would have a realistic option up front should robbie or clinton pick up an injury or be out of form on the day. Kerr will probably call him up over the likes of Macken.
Jolly, I think its a safe bet to believe me when I say Kerr won't give a player his debut in a competitive match and certainly not away to France.


Would that be the same Kavanagh inspiring Cardiff to the foot of Div1.
One player is not going to win matches. Cardiff have scored 9 league goals this season and Kavanagh has played a crucial part in 5 of them.
http://www.sportinglife.com/football/nationwide1/cardiff/reports/

[thejollyrodger]

well i would call up elliot if it meant ensuring we get to Germany 2006 :)

[eirebhoy]

well i would call up elliott if it meant ensuring we get to Germany 2006 :)
If only it was that easy. ;)

[Stuttgart88]

On the basis of current form and what’s going to be required in Paris:

Given
Carr-Cunningham-O’Brien-O’Shea
Finnan-Kavanagh-Keane-Duff
Robbie-Macken

Finnan seems in good form and is a regular starter now. He played RB on Saturday, but has mainly played wide right this year. With the pace that France have (Henry, Giuly, Rothen if selected) I’d be more comfortable with Finnan protecting Carr than Andy Reid.

The Independent described Kavanagh as “outstanding” this morning.

Despite O’Shea doing OK beside Keane on Saturday, Paris is too big a game to gamble on putting him in the middle. Maybe for the future, but not now. Keep him at left-back even though he’s not a natural there.

Macken will continue ahead of Fowler for the foreseeable future and Clinton is nowhere at the moment. Not even on the bench against Bolton.


Some general observations on the weekend’s football on TV:

Duff is quality & has to play on the left. Those crosses…
Reid looks even fatter than last month.
Elliott impressed me in a tight game. Like Robbie, he’s prepared to go wide and deep to get the ball and is able to keep possession quite well. He’s mobile and is quite skillful. He also has a habit of taking too much out of it though. He’s very close to the senior squad now. Look at his competition.
Willo Flood got 15 mins against Arsenal. Great news.
Connolly, despite scoring, cost Leicester the game at QPR.
Souness seems to be getting the best out of the Irish lads.
I thought Dunne played a blinder against Arsenal and Kenny C was a bit dodgy for Birmingham. Dunne looks fit and increasingly mature.
Paul Butler had a blinder for Leeds, albeit in Div1.
Macken looked decent.

[Metrostars]

Matt Holland may play for Charlton tonight...
http://www.charlton-athletic.co.uk/sub_newsview.ink?nid=20778


And although Mark Fish, Shaun Bartlett and Matt Holland all came through a reserve game on Tuesday night, whether or not any of those are ready will be purely down to the manager.


So with Holland possibly returning, and Miller coming on as a sub on Saturday, do we have any absentees at this current time?

[Littlest Hobo]

Holland is out of the running for a place in the first XI, so is Miller.

I'd put finnan on the right wing, Duff on the left, with roy and Kav in the engine room. O'shea may have done enough recently at Man u to win himself a place at left full.
The newcastle trio keep their places alongside kenny in defense.
Robbie and clint up front against silvestre and co.

[Junior]

I thought Dunne played a blinder against Arsenal and Kenny C was a bit dodgy for Birmingham. Dunne looks fit and increasingly mature.


Got a few City mates (Irish and Non Irish fans) who cannot believe that Dunne doesn't get a look in for us these days. He is deceptively quick, something that is severly lacking in Andy & Kenny and was shown up on numerous occasions against the Swiss.

However, can we risk the change against the French? unlikely I think.......

[eirebhoy]

Robbie and clint up front against silvestre and co.
Its a pity Sivestre cant even make the French squad.:(

Junior, I rate Dunne highly but we can't change our centre half partnership for a match like this.

[Stuttgart88]

I agree we should stick with Cunningham & O'Brien, but if Dunne is left out of the squad for Paris it must be because of a rift with Kerr. I've never seen Dunne play better.

[narrowback]

Given, carr, o brien, cunningham, o shea, finnan, keane, holland, kilbane, duff & robbie.
finnan gonna have to keep pires quiet if the french play him i play duff behind keane and try and get him running at the french defence andy reid lacking a bit of expertiance for a big game like this.

[thejollyrodger]

Got a few City mates (Irish and Non Irish fans) who cannot believe that Dunne doesn't get a look in for us these days. He is deceptively quick, something that is severly lacking in Andy & Kenny and was shown up on numerous occasions against the Swiss.


But his temperment has let him down on a number of occasions. He was a loose cannon a while ago.




finnan, keane, holland, kilbane

Thats a terrible midfield. Are you trying to loose?

_________Finnan_________Keane________Kavanagh_____ ____Duff

______________Robbie Keane_________Clinton or Elliot


I wouldnt start Reid on a game like this. He doesnt have much experience and needs to go on the slim fast.

IMO I think its a fine line between Hearte and O Shea. Both are crap. I would go with O' Shea just because he has more first team football than Hearte at the mo.

[eirebhoy]

But his temperment has let him down on a number of occasions. He was a loose cannon a while ago.
Dunne's red card last month was just his second since joining Man City in 2000 (150 matches). I prefer aggresive players playing at the back as long as they don't get in trouble and Dunne certainly doesn't seem to be.

I couldn't care if Andy Reid is 18 stone, it doesn't seem to be effecting him and if he was overweight I'm sure Joe would have said something by now. Every Irish person seems to mention it so surely Reid himself would know if he was overweight.

[thejollyrodger]

Well now is no time to start tinkering with things at the back. Dunne might have a bit of pace but realistically is never going to get a start in Paris.

As for Reid, there is no point running around a football pitch carrying all that extra weight. Physics alone shows that he is going to be that bit slower lugging the extra weight around. He will have to loose it.

[eirebhoy]

Well now is no time to start tinkering with things at the back.
Agreed.


As for Reid, there is no point running around a football pitch carrying all that extra weight. Physics alone shows that he is going to be that bit slower lugging the extra weight around. He will have to loose it.
As I said, if he was overweight I'm sure the staff at Forest would have got it sorted a long time ago. I would be 90+% sure he's not overweight.

[narrowback]

_________Finnan_________Keane________Kavanagh_____ ____Duff

______________Robbie Keane_________Clinton or Elliot


midfield gonna be vital in this game and i not a big fan of kilbane but he playin well and does give us an outlet at times since he moved to centre mid with the toffees i rekon could give us a bit more in the midfield and if we needed duffer to drop onto the left. for the french its a must win game now and that could be trouble. kavanagh again i dont think has enough experiance and should be used as cover at best. is miller out?

[eirebhoy]

midfield gonna be vital in this game and i not a big fan of kilbane but he playin well and does give us an outlet at times since he moved to centre mid with the toffees i rekon could give us a bit more in the midfield and if we needed duffer to drop onto the left. for the french its a must win game now and that could be trouble. kavanagh again i dont think has enough experiance and should be used as cover at best. is miller out?
I don't understand how Kavanagh hasn't got enough experience yet Kilbane does. Kilbane hasn't played more than 10 games in central midfield. Kavanagh has played in central midfield at the age of 20 against top class players including Irish legends in Houghton, McGrath, Staunton, Sheridan, O'Leary, Townsend (just named the Irish as its fitting to this forum ;) ). Its not as if he hasn't played against players of the quality of Dhorasoo and Pedretti (if both fit should be the French midfield partnership) before. Considering he is now 10 years older and in his prime I don't even think there is any risk involved.

Miller came on for ManU on Saturday for the last 5mins. Holland didn't make the bench for Charlton tonight.

Just one more thing on Andy Reid's "weight problem". Would you call James Beattie overweight? I certainly wouldn't and he has the exact same build as Reid.
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/empics/20031210/17/883301746.jpg

[thejollyrodger]

I still remain unconiveced about Reid and his weight problem. Maybe he is ok, maybe he isnt. I do reckon it is better to be lean and mean.

Miller - no way is he getting a start or even on the bench. Looks like he isnt very sure footed at Man Utd IMO. Its going to take another season for him at least.

Kilbane - I would start him on the bench as he can sometimes offer that enthusium to get things going but Duff beats him in left wing and so does kavanagh in the centre.


Holland didn't make the bench for Charlton tonight.


More great news :P

What a girl in the centre of the park. Scored a few goals now and again but we need to dominate the centre of the park to be in with a fighting chance. I couldnt see Holland doing it.

[1MickCollins]

I'm more concerned about how we play than who plays where - I think we need a fit Roy Keane, Damien Duff and Robbie Keane & Clinton Morrison & Shay Given. Most of the other calls Kilbane v Holland v Kilbane or O'Shea v Finnan or Finnan v Carr don't matter so much.

We need to put France under pressure from the start and not let them settle, when we don't have possession we should have 11 men behind the ball everyone working to get it back. Against the Swiss and Cypriots we we let them play through our midefield far too cheaply. The Swiss looked like they could have walked the ball into our net several times and we gifted Cyprus 2 great chances in a game where we didn't create that many clear cut chances ourselves.

I'm looking for a hungry and brave Ireland performance, gritty and determined when not in possession and smart when in possession. France won't be there for the taking like this again any time soon.

[koneinc]

France won't be there for the taking like this again any time soon.

My thoughts exactly, now is our chance and we have to make the most of it, a win away would do wonders for our chances for reaching Germany.

[tricky_colour]

Just one more thing on Andy Reid's "weight problem". Would you call James Beattie overweight? I certainly wouldn't and he has the exact same build as Reid.
http://eur.news1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/empics/20031210/17/883301746.jpg

Some compare Andy Reid to John Robertson of Forests European Cup
winning Brian Clough era.

http://www.forest-gazzette.pp.se/Legendgb.htm#Robertson


"Clough switched Robertson to the left wing and there he began to blossom, using skill and "jinkery" rather than speed to beat opponents. It soon became clear that after a slow start, John Robertson had emerged as one of the best players ever to play for the Reds."


Also
http://www.justcatnaps.com/collection/photosRobertsonjohn.html

(I didn't realise he was playing in 70-71 though.)

So speed isn't everything, not that Reid is slow.

[4tothefloor]

This is the team i'd pick for Paris:

Given
Finnan Cunningham O'Brien O'Shea
Reid Keane Kavanagh Duff
Keane (withdrawn role) Morrisson

Would not start with Kilbane, while Holland isn't match fit. If we are in trouble and need to add a bit of urgency, we could move O'Shea up to centre midfield in place of Kav\Keane, Finnan to left-back, Carr on at right back. Of course it all depends on how individuals perform on the night. I'd worry about O'Shea and Reid as they're either on form or are ineffective. We need big games from the two Keanes, O'Brien and Shay Given. I'd take a point right now!

[Stuttgart88]

There's increasing speculation in the media that O'Shea is set for a midfield berth on Saturday. This worries me to be honest. I hear O'Shea got a lot of stick from the crowd last Sunday.

It's probably just media guff as there's 4 days to go and very little to write about. I wonder how much clout Keane will exercise in his preference for a partner.

If anyone can paste what the Irish Times is saying about the match I'd be grateful. I don't subscribe to their website (yet) and I can only buy it 24 hours late in London.

[wild rovers]

Have to go with

carr-o'brien-cunningham-O'shea
finnan-keane-holland-duff
keane-morrisson

Bringing on both Reid and Kavanagh to shake things up in the 2nd half if we need a goal but neither should start.....

[harps1954]

I started this thread about three or four weeks ago and I am still of the belief that Kerr will play five in the middle of the park as I think he is a very cautious manager. But I have changed my mind a bit on the formation of the team now that he is hinting at O'Shea in midfield. Therefore, I think the team could be:

Given

Carr - Cunningham - O'Brien - Finnan

Duff - Keane - O'Shea - Kavanagh - Kilbane

Keane

Any views? There is just something in me that says that he will be happy with his point, as we all will be, and won't take any risks.

[koneinc]

--- --- --- --- Given --- --- --- ---

Carr --- O'Brien --- Cunningham --- Finnan/Maybury

Reid --- Keane --- Kavanagh --- Kilbane

--- --- --- --- --- Duff

--- --- Keane

[tetsujin1979]

At some point in the qualification series, in order to top the group, we are going to have to take a chance, this was always going to occur in either of the France or Swiss home or away ties, as we would expect to win every one of the other ties. One of these has already passed us by. France are at their weakest right now than they have been in years, for the return leg god knows who they will have back, so the chance has to be taken now, Brian's stuck with 4-4-2 almost entirely through his tenure as manager, with a few variations (Duff / Reid behind the strikers, either given a free role, swapping wings, etc) he's not going to change this for his biggest competitive game to date (in terms of opposition anyway, we can argue whether or not Russia at home/Swiss away in Euro 2004 was bigger another time). The majority of the team picks itself - Given, Cunningham, O'Brien, Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Duff, Carr can all expect to start
The questions begin with:
Left full - O'Shea hasn't convinced there and isn't playing there for his club
Right midfield - do we go to attack with Reid or contain and break with Finnan?
Central midfield - Kilbane is a Kerr favorite, but isn't ideal to the position against strong opposition, is Kavanagh ready for France, is Holland fit enough?
Who to partner Robbie - right now it's Clinton, and he's on form in internationals, but lack of club games and backup for him is troubling

The last time Kerr had to make decisions like this, they failed - Carsley against Russia, moving O'Shea into central defence against Switzerland and Harte at left full - so I can see Kerr making as little changes as possible to minimise any potential damage these changes to the team against France may cause.

Bearing all this in mind, I reckon the team will line out:
..................Given
Carr...Cunningham..O'Brien..O'Shea
Finnan..Roy Keane..Kilbane..Duff
.....Robbie Keane..Morrison

When the draw was made I would have taken a corner against the French, now a draw is plausible and a win isn't out of the question.
C'mon you boys in Green!

[Stuttgart88]

For all Kerr's talk after the draw with Russia about us being too rigid in shape and tactics, there's been no hint whatsoever that he's prepared to do anything different except, as Tetsujin points out, allowing Duff & Reid to swap wings.

I can't see him explicitly going 4-5-1. I think an overtly defensive set up from the start will put us on the back foot (remember away to Croatia?). I think we're better off taking the game to them with our usual shape and if Robbie & Clinton need to drop back they're usually quick to do so.

We practically have our best squad available (in Kerr's eyes we do) so if we avoid mistakes and take our chances we've every chance.

[thejollyrodger]

If we really want to go for a win saturday night I would go for a 4-3-3 formation.


___________________Given_______________________

Carr_________O Brien_____Cunningham________O Shea

________Finnan______Keane______Holland/Kavanagh__

_________Reid________Keane_______Duff____________

This can fall back to 4-5-1 when we have to defend. I.E Reid and Duff coming back and closing the french down, leaving robbie up front.

Back 4 is the usual suspects. Im hoping Carr can put on a solid performance but Finnan is there to help Carr out. The same other side, Holland/Kavanagh will be able to help out O Shea. Kavanagh especially with some solid challenges;). Roy Keane in the holding role spreading the play but static enough except for defending.

Up front its up to Reid and Duff to get in quality crosses for Robbie Keane, the other winger and the midfield players Finnan and Holland/Kavanagh.

Kavanagh looks like one of the few players in the side who can really put the oppostion under pressure, make solid tackles and make his physical presence known.

If Reid looks like he isnt up to international standard it I would bring on Miller.

[koneinc]

That might just be crazy enough to work Jolly :cool:

[barglee]

Given
Carr o brien cunningham harte(he shud be in the squad as hes our only left back)
finnan kilbane keane reid
duff keane

maybe oshea in mdifield instead of kilbane.

still dunno why harte isnt in the squad.