Cycling 2013

[swinfordfc]

That's was a total farce at yestarday finish - its lucky that no one actually didnt get kill in the accident as they were travelling so fast .....

[Stuttgart88]

Hmm, the Tour de France is on nearby. I think I'll go and watch. I think I'll take the mutt with me as he needs a walk. No need for a lead, sure what could happen?

Anyway, both Irish in the main bunch 1 second off the lead. Roche in 11th and Martin well down on the road, but might make a dash up the GC tomorrow after the team time trial which Garmin is fancied to win. Hesjedal missed both crashes so still no reason for the team to favour Martin.

[swinfordfc]

Fair play to Roche today in the team time trial .... now up to 9th overall but i think it will last until next Monday, then the Tour really starts! Martin doing fine at 19th spot - looking forward seeing him in the mountains ....

[Stuttgart88]

ITV coverage makes no mention of either Martin or Hesjvedal as a GC contender despite a whole series of others being put in the frame. I think Martin, having missed out on any crashes in Corsica, must be seen as a top ten contender at the very least. Maybe the lack of definitive leadership in Garmin is seen as a factor but frankly I just think ITV has overlooked him.

[swinfordfc]

All the better they overlooked him - he should make the top ten i think!

[swinfordfc]

D Martin up to 17th overall after today ..... Roche still 9th

[Stuttgart88]

Irish boys got dropped yesterday along with some other top cyclists but both are still in good shape overall. Froome and Porte put in unreal displays yesterday. Froome certainly has come on a lot since his Barloworld days. Not that I'm saying there's anything suspicious, like.

[the 12 th man]

What a ride by Martin,brilliant tactics in the last Km.:cool:

[swinfordfc]

That was class from Martin .... bravo
Great work today from Garmin - put Sky under pressure from the off and Martin now up to 8th overall

[Mr A]

There were some interesting little comments in the cycling news live commentary of stage. Something along the lines of- we haven't seen a climbing display like this since Armstrong and Heras in 2003 and another that described the performance as "eyebrow raising".

Fair play to Martin- that was a great win. The guy really knows how to take his chances.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, he's got a great tactical / racing brain. Great stuff.

[Mr A]

Philip Lavery getting a chance to win a contract with Cofidis: http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/philip-lavery-secures-trial-for-rest-of-season-with-french-pro-team-cofidis/

Meanwhile LeMonde believe in Martin, but not in Froome (poorly translated by Google but you'll get the gist): http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lemonde.fr%2Fsport%2Farticle%2F 2013%2F07%2F08%2Ffroome-aussi-puissant-qu-armstrong-et-ullrich-en-2003_3444094_3242.html

[Macy]

I want to believe in Sky, but until they are willing to be transparent, there'll always be a question mark for me. Brailsford uses bs excuses not release the power data, whereas other riders and teams have no fear in doing so. They have to be doubley transparent with Froome, imo, given his rise from no contract renewal going into the 2011 veulta to his subsequent performances.

Bloody brilliant performance by Dan Martin - the guy's just a winner.

Also, a mention for Nico - it kinda got missed as it was right at the start of the itv coverage, but he buried himself for bert through some of the valleys.

[Real ale Madrid]

Froome got DQ'ed from the Giro a few years ago for holding onto a motorbike on a climb he was so knackered.

To go from that to what he was able to do at his ease on Saturday is beyond any reasonable explanation imo.

To see David Walsh following team sky around and not highlight this is strange as well - maybe he has something up his sleeve for after the tour?

[Macy]

Or maybe they do actually have revolutionary training methods, but without the transparency they are leaving themselves wide open.

[Dodge]

Climbers develop too. I'm sure living in Kenya all those years helped aerobically too

As macy said though, as long as Sky and Brailsford are being so dickish about it, they're asking for trouble

[Macy]

There is the argument put forward that because of epo, cycling never properly developed it's training methods as it was easier and cheaper to just dope. Now teams are developing their training and looking more at aerodynamics etc. There's a noticeable increase in the number of skin suits and unvented helmets on the flat stages this year for example, and sky with their mexico 86 airtec jerseys rather than full zip open, top flapping that the traditional riders are doing. So there is some reason to hope they are clean.

ITV did a bit on doping yesterday as part of the highlights package - I still don't get the desire not to release data due to misinterpretation. The social media scientists work out wattage estimates anyway - put the actuals out there with supporting documentation/ intepretation if you have to. I'd have more belief in them if they were willing to put the data out, even if people did interpret them as dodgy - nothing to hide, nothing to fear. The fact they wont really makes me uncomfortable with what they are doing (embedded David Walsh or not!).

[Dodge]

The Walsh cheerleading is pretty annoying too!

For Froome, this is his 3rd year at a top level and he's only 28 so he should be reaching peak now. He was by far the strongest rider in the 2011 Vuelta but Sky fecked it up trying to hand it to Wiggins and Cobo stole it from the pair of them

[Mr A]

Has anybody been watching Paul Kimmage's video diaries from the Tour? They're pretty much awful. No insight, plenty of uninteresting reminiscing. One can only hope the documentary they're putting together is of a massively better standard.

[Macy]

For Froome, this is his 3rd year at a top level and he's only 28 so he should be reaching peak now. He was by far the strongest rider in the 2011 Vuelta but Sky fecked it up trying to hand it to Wiggins and Cobo stole it from the pair of them
Is that the point, though? Froome went into that as a domestique, with no contract on offer from Sky. They had to negotiate whilst that Veulta was going on. For all the talk of "numbers" and data analysis, it seems a remarkable oversight, and is the reason they should be super transparent with him, even in fairness to Froome himself.

[swinfordfc]

Lads,

Can Martin trial time? ... i never seen him trial time ......

[Mr A]

He's not great, but better than he used to be. It will be interesting to see what he can pull out tomorrow.

[tricky_colour]

Interesting, not really been following this much but watch a bit today, nice to see there is some Irish interest,
wish I had seen Martin's stage win live, must be on youtube I guess.

Froome ( vroom vroom lol) is odds on fav to win at about 6-1 on. Martin is about 66-1 which means he is in the
running without Froom, second fav is 16-1 so Martin is 4 times that price.

So I can take it Martin has no chance unless something happens to Froom?

Anyhow I shall be following his progress and hoping Froom cycles off a cliff breaking all his spokes.

[Dodge]

Dan has no chance of winning the Time Trial. If he finishes top 20 that'll be a great ride for him.

if TOny martin wasn't crashing every other day I think he'd beat Froome today. But he's bound to be in bits

[the 12 th man]

He's out at 4.30 according to his twitter,first was out at 10.30,that's a long wait.

[Mr A]

So Froome batters all his rivals once again. He is the best climber and best time triallst by a mile of the GC contenders. He's either super talented and has methods none of the other teams can match or else we're looking at the latest cycling's latest fraud.

[swinfordfc]

D Martin down to 13th overall after today .... taught it be worse in fairest.

[Mr A]

Great stuff from Roche today- initiated the Saxo attack that saw them put over a minute into Froome.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/tour-de-france/lets-go-how-saxo-took-it-to-froome-in-the-crosswinds_294869

Martin made up a few places as well too so good for him as well.

[tricky_colour]

Nice to see the Irish made up some places yesterday, no idea what is happening today have not heard mention off Froome or the Irish.

[tricky_colour]

Martin still 11th Roche is 36th, which I think is the same or thereabouts.

[swinfordfc]

Martin still 11th Roche is 36th, which I think is the same or thereabouts.

Your bang on ----- expect fire works tomorrow in the last 30kms

[Mr A]

Roche in the break today and it looks certain to stay away. 26 riders in all, including some serious class so it'll be difficult- Go Nico!

[the 12 th man]

Break away group blowing apart on the climb out of Gap up the mountain,Roche still going well from what I see.

[Mr A]

Rui Costa wins the stage. Roche tried to bridge to attackers and could not make it. Just doesn't seem to be climbing well this year. Kind of hoping he'll peak for the Vuelta at this stage.

[the 12 th man]

Roches finished 1.27 down on Rui Costa but is going to gain a whack of time on the top guys today,thought he was going to win it today the way it was panning out.

[Spudulika]

I don't know if anyone hear Paul Kimmage tonight, scary stuff. Was really taken aback by Froome's mountain attack, it just looked like too many others in the past. As my other half said as we were watching Mont Ventoux - you need drugs just to think about cycling there!

[Mr A]

Matt Brammeier not shy about his feelings around the current Tour of Qinghai Lake.. see https://twitter.com/Mattbrammeier85

This crankpunk article certainly indicates that the scene in Asia isn't too healthy: http://crankpunk.com/2013/06/04/the-question-of-doping-in-asia-and-a-conflict-of-interests/

[Mad Moose]

I believe Froome had an altercation with a fan today who nearly took him out. 3 fans stepped out onto the middle of the road and ran along with the riders. One of them nearly took out Froome. Haven't seen it but worth looking at by the sounds of the commentary.

[Stuttgart88]

I think Froome has won me over. Seems like a decent bloke, very modest and accepting of the doubt that surrounds his achievement.

Today's Guardian says there is a changing of guard taking place in cycling. The likes of Contador, Shleck, Evans, Kloden etc are all yesterday's men and Froome, Quintana and 3 others are the ones that will dominate in years to come. Martin was one of the 3 others named but acting against him is his passion for racing. He wants to race in all the tours and classics rather than spending months training at altitude. Probably a fair point.

[Dodge]

Very unfair lumping Evans in with the other 3 IMO. Particularly in a negative sense

[Stuttgart88]

I tried to find that article online but couldn't. It was an addendum to an article in the printed version. In fairness I don't think there was any insinuation regarding Evans. I think it was merely saying that those guys aren't likely to win the race again as the emerging talent looks stronger.

One thing I don't like about SKY / Froome is that they have such a big budget they can afford to send riders to every race while keeping their better riders in altitude training if they need to. I can only recall Froome competing in Oman, the Dauphine and the Tour this season. It almost shows disrespect to the classics, and also to the Giro. Ok, I know many teams keep riders out of the Giro but still, it doesn't sit we'll with me. Armstrong used to only race the Tour for a few seasons I think.

[Stuttgart88]

Apparently Froome won a crit in Belgium yesterday :)

[Mr A]

Good result for Roche yesterday, 5th in San Sebastian. Hopefully he'll peak for the Vuelta. Picks up 30 World Tour points as well- 50% more than a Tour de France Stage win even if the prestige isn't anything like the same.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul Kimmage very sceptical of Froome and SKY in the july 23rd Second Captains podcast. Interesting interview.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/second-captains

[Macy]

One thing I don't like about SKY / Froome is that they have such a big budget they can afford to send riders to every race while keeping their better riders in altitude training if they need to. I can only recall Froome competing in Oman, the Dauphine and the Tour this season. It almost shows disrespect to the classics, and also to the Giro. Ok, I know many teams keep riders out of the Giro but still, it doesn't sit we'll with me. Armstrong used to only race the Tour for a few seasons I think.
Sky only have the same sized roster as other World Tour Teams. Nibali is basically on the same race schedule as Wiggins for example.

For me, Sky's problem remains transparency. They, and their fans (journalists and otherwise) can say people don't have the knowledge to interpret the data, and that might be true, but for me the not releasing it is the issue rather than what it may or may not show. When they did release data, to a bloke who previously said Armstrong was credible, they only release Froomes data from the 2011 Veulta when he came from nowhere (not even a sky contract extension) to podium!

Sky are putting results ahead of their, and the sports, credibility. I really want to believe them, but two tour wins down it's time for them to reveal more of their innovative, clean, methods. And I mean a bit more than the old "flavoured" water bs that David Walsh seems to have fallen for.

I was talking to a friend about this at the weekend. I'm 37, and have been following pro-cycling since the late 80's (1990 was the first tour I first really followed religiously). The majority of "unbelievable" performances I've witnessed, have turned out to be, well, unbelievable. That's the background of many followers of the sport - I really don't get why Team Sky, certain journalists, and their fans can't grasp this. I'm sorry, I no longer believer in "miracles". The lack of transparency, and not getting the need for it, is really depressing. The dismissiveness of (mainly) british journalists (journalists that I've previously liked and respected) to the transparency issue is getting on my wick. The Sky fanboys are idiots. What was a great Tour of racing, has really left quite a bitter taste to be honest!

[bennocelt]

The stage Froome won on the mountain stage did seem superhuman, he was way ahead of everyone that day, it was an amazing performance. can one cyclist be really so ahead of everyone else?

Whats your opinion Macy (Spud, Sttu, Dodge and the rest!) on Bradley Wiggins? My wife is convinced he is (was) on drugs - (she is a doctor!)

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not a doctor but I think he's a tool.

[Macy]

Whats your opinion Macy (Spud, Sttu, Dodge and the rest!) on Bradley Wiggins? My wife is convinced he is (was) on drugs - (she is a doctor!)
I've less question marks than this years winner - I still keep coming back to him going into the 2011 veulta without a contract offer from Sky, and therefore Sky's superdooper analysts can't have been that impressed with his "numbers" (doesn't make him dirty, just needs proper explanation imo)! You can't say wiggins didn't look human during last years tour, or this year so far. The course was built for him with the amount of time trialling. He can be a bit of a tool and/ or contradictory, but I want to believe he is clean.

There is logic to the argument that great performances were so easy/ relatively cheap with epo and blood transfusions, that training methods and methodologies never properly moved with the times, and sky are the first ones to make the advances. But there's no good just talking a good game in this sport anymore - be open about the methods even with a loss of results/ rivals catching up, or accept the innuendo.

[the 12 th man]

Eric Zabel comes clean http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/23485910

(Not sure if this is old news but I only heard it today)

[Mr A]

The other thing about Sky is- if their training etc is so much better than that at other teams, why hasn't Mick Rogers brought that to Saxo and allowed them to apply it too?