Holland out of French clash!

[eirebhoy]

Keane-Kav it is so (hopefully). :)

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/worldcup2006/irish_soccer_detail.asp?newsid=13577


Republic of Ireland midfielder Matt Holland has been ruled out of next month’s World Cup qualifier against France in Paris due to the ankle injury that has disrupted the Charlton skipper’s season so far.

Holland has been out of action since being stretchered off in the Addicks’ opening Premiership match against Bolton Wanderers at the Reebok that the home side won 4-0.

The former Ipswich midfielder missed Ireland’s opening two World Cup qualifiers against Cyprus and Switzerland earlier this month with Graham Kavanagh and Kevin Kilbane deputising for the experienced campaigner.

Charlton’s medical staff have pencilled in their Premiership clash with Newcastle United on October 17th as a possible comeback date for the 29-year-old.

Irish manager Brian Kerr will be disappointed to have his full squad available for the clash with the French, who have started their campaign poorly.

[John83]

Congo congo congo...

:) Ah, if only it was O'Shea, we'd be looking like selecting the best eleven for once.

[eirebhoy]

Congo congo congo...

:) Ah, if only it was O'Shea, we'd be looking like selecting the best eleven for once.
With Holland out we now have more of a chance of choosing the best 11 as Holland isn't in it IMO. I agree with you about O'Shea too.

[thejollyrodger]

well at least it isnt Robbie Keane or Roy Keane.



I think o Shea will become a decent enough player, probably at the end of this season, he has a good attitude, decent skill and just makes stupid mistakes

[Slash/ED]

We have better central mid fielders than Holland but we do not have better left backs then O'Shea, unless Finnan gets a run there and he'd have to play in a few friendlys first imo.

This spares us of another performance from the invisible man, Delap, Kavanagh or Miller would all do a better job than him imo.

[Eh Weh]

Holland would have almost definetly started if he was fit, but we have better options than him, so its a plus for us as far as im concerned.

[concanta]

I have to agree with Davros
I don't think Holland is that great but he is defo better that kilbane or Kavanagh

[Hither green]

You lot must be on drugs! :rolleyes:
If the Brat is allegedly one of our best midfielders,Holland's at least currently his equal......he's a big loss!

I couldn't agree more. I think Holland's as good as any of the current central midfielders, they're hardly queuing up for us at the minute. He’s one of those understated players that people overlook but I think we really missed his drive in the last two games, and Charlton certainly seem to be missing him.

Who would people suggest instead, certainly neither Kavanagh nor Kilbane,

[Lionel Ritchie]

Any loss of a premiership player is a blow. I don't agree that having his options whittled away will make BK pick a better team. there's a lot of football to be played between now and france .... more players could easily be sending the sick notes.

[TheJamaicanP.M.]

You lot must be on drugs! :rolleyes:
If the Brat is allegedly one of our best midfielders,Holland's at least currently his equal......he's a big loss!

Very true Davros. Holland has been one of Ireland's most consistent players in recent years. He has great experience and his leadership skills would have been invaluable in a big match like this. Holland plays with a good Charlton team. Kavanagh plays with a struggling Cardiff team. End of story.

[eirebhoy]

Very true Davros. Holland has been one of Ireland's most consistent players in recent years.
Consistently invisible. The Matt Holland that plays for Charlton is not the Matt Holland that plays for Ireland. He puts a lot more effort in for Charlton IMO. I couldn't give a crap where Kav plays, he's a better passer and tackler so he should be in there. I'd love someone to send me a video of one of his recent performances for Ireland as if he's as consistent as you say then it will be the same player we'd be missing on October 9th.

Stop going by his performances for Charlton. He has had his chances for Ireland and has never played as well as he does for his club.

Nobody can comment on Kav's lack of experience at the top level. When playing the supporting midfielder you may need experience but top level experience doesn't make a difference. He has played over 300 games in central midfield, I'm sure he has come up against just as good a central midfield partnership as the French (no Makelele, Vieira, Zidane...) (he played a good few premiership games). The only difference here is he won't have such an important role as he does for his club.

If Holland really wants to play against France he will go against his manager and make himself available. He's back in training and is sure to be fit for the French match but Curbishly chose the match after the international break as the date of his return for obvious reasons. I'd turn my back on Curbishly before I would on Fergie and Keane deserves credit for what he did (he wasn't supposed to be back until next Monday).

I want someone giving his all for his country and not someone who's going to apologise for a miss timed tackle.

[tiktok]

Holland plays with a good Charlton team. Kavanagh plays with a struggling Cardiff team. End of story.

Andy Reid plays with a struggling Notts Forest team while Steve Finnan plays with a good Liverpool team, but look at everyone's first choice right wing ahead of the Swiss game.
It's a big fish/small pond situation.

In the end, what's important is that Kerr has as many decent options available to him as possible. Holland has done very well with Charlton and has been a good player for us through the years. I can't believe that there are people who are greeting his injury as a positive thing :rolleyes:

He's definitely a loss, even if he weren't to play, for the experience he can offer to younger members of the squad.

[ken foree]

Any loss of a premiership player is a blow. I don't agree that having his options whittled away will make BK pick a better team. there's a lot of football to be played between now and france .... more players could easily be sending the sick notes.

sensible post there, holland being fit and at least in the squad will force the other midfielders to perform

[Hither green]

.

I'd turn my back on Curbishly before I would on Fergie and Keane deserves credit for what he did (he wasn't supposed to be back until next Monday).



Yeah right. I’m sure Fergie was really concerned that Ireland won, just like he was concerned every time he asked Keane not to play in other Ireland games (friendly or competitive). I’m sure he wasn’t just using the Ireland game as a run-out for Keane, a chance for Keane to improve his touch and fitness. In fact I’m sure he was bravely risking Keane sustaining further injury just for the sake of Ireland. Quite frankly I’m becoming really sceptical about any length of injury report coming out of Old Trafford; Ruud van Nist: Will it be months? weeks? days? Oh no, surprise surprise he can play tomorrow. The same cr*p is going on with Rooney - will he/won’t he be fit for the Liverpool match? Fergie’s playing the press again.

Holland is always available, he rarely misses a game and am sure has never said “I don’t do friendlies”! And nobody’s ever claimed that he’s a hard tackling midfielder like Keane and Kavanagh, but he is great at bringing the ball forward! We’ve got to play the Faroes after France. Keane and Kav? Why not go the whole hog and put 5 across midfield and 1 up front? Frankly I’d rather Holland play in that game.

[eirebhoy]

And nobody’s ever claimed that he’s a hard tackling midfielder like Keane and Kavanagh, but he is great at bringing the ball forward!
For Charlton probably. I am not exagerrating when I say I honestly rarely get to see him touch the ball when he plays for Ireland never mind bring it forward.

He does OK in a few home games but he'susually shíte when away from home. I'll go through the ratings from eleven-a-side.com:

Russia 4-2 Ireland (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/shamrockrovers/story.asp?newsid=1880)

Matt Holland: The drop from the Premiership seems to be taking its toll. Didn’t demand the ball when a leader was needed. Put himself about and won a few good tackles, but provided nothing in possession. 4



Ireland 1-2 Switzerland (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/longfordtown/story.asp?newsid=2409 )

Matt Holland: The game largely passed him by. One excellent goal-line intervention early on and a decent effort at the other end too, but never a midfield general 4

Georgia 1-2 Ireland (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/galwayutd/story.asp?newsid=4737)

Holland: Anonymous for long spells, and when he doesn’t deliver going forward, he doesn’t deliver much at all. He and Kinsella were outnumbered against Georgia’s five-man central hub. 5

Albania 0-0 Ireland (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/dublincity/story.asp?newsid=4807)

Holland: A thoroughly industrious performance from the Ipswich man. There remains little in the way of creativity in the Irish midfield, but Holland toiled honestly all night and won a prodigious amount of ball. 7

Ireland 2-1 Albania (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/shamrockrovers/story.asp?newsid=5845)

Matt Holland: Like his midfield sidekick Kinsella, provided little in the way of creativity or forward thinking. Bit into a couple of tone-setting tackles, but no glimpses of his sometime attacking threat today. 6


Ireland 2-0 Georgia (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/shamrockrovers/story.asp?newsid=5901)

Matt Holland: One of his best performances in an Irish shirt. Midfield authority was a prerequisite for success, and Holland, who covered every blade of grass, helped provide that. 8

Ireland 1-1 Russia (http://www.eleven-a-side.com/dublincity/story.asp?newsid=7425)

Matt Holland: Solid in the tackle throughout. One volley well over, and never really threatened to add to his international tally. Unable to stamp any attacking authority on the game when authority was needed in the second half, and the position remains a concern. 5

Switzerland 2-0 Ireland (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=10416&page=1&pp=20) - His last competitive game and he hasn't improved since.

"Kilbane, Breen and Holland should never be picked in an Ireland squad again. "
"and Holland is and always will be a dependable water-carrier, but nothing else."
"Holland was disgraceful last night. He never took responsibility."
"Holland as usual did nothing"

So 2 good (not the best of opposition) and 6 bad - dreadful performances from 8.

Just to show how anonymous he can be:
Ireland 2-1 Czech's (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=13442&highlight=holland+anonymous)

"Holland 5 - Anonomous for the first 70 minutes and only worked when he was forced."
"Holland 5 - Hasn't done anything in an Irish shirt since World Cup."
"MATT HOLLAND: Anonymous in midfield and at fault for the goal. Needs to start reproducing his premiership form at international level."
"Holland 6 No injury worries in 29 yrs never mind 4 yrs . Not competitive enough. We need a competitive midfielder who can pass the ball. He is not it."
"Holland 5 - Not joking .... but honestly kept forgetting he was on the pitch."
"Holland 5 - His usual pathetic self. Lazy, uncomitted and unable to pass the ball more than 10 yards. Shouldn't be in the squad. "
"Holland 5: Hardly noticed him until he went centre back and was forced to play "
"Holland probably doesn't even deserve a 5. Did he actually do anything of note last night?"

Brazil 0-0 Ireland (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=12523&highlight=holland+anonymous)

"Was he playing?"
Didn't see enough of him"
" Holland 4 - How he keeps getting picked is beyond me. His passing is average, he never gets far enough forward to shoot and he seems afraid to tackle- shouldn't even have been in the squad."

I have gone through all this hassle because I feel so strongly about this. Holland is useless and you lot have very short memories if you think his injury will be a loss.

[eirebhoy]

EB,on strange substances
Whatever I'm on (you're not getting some :p ), you have to admit that Holland is far from as consistent as on this forum say. Judging by his performances away against the likes of Russia, Switzerland and Georgia, I would dread to see how he would perform in Paris. :eek:

I forgot to get back to the following:


Yeah right. I’m sure Fergie was really concerned that Ireland won, just like he was concerned every time he asked Keane not to play in other Ireland games (friendly or competitive).
Where in my post does it even mention anything about Fergie other than the bit where Keane turned his back on him? Judging by your reply to my post I can only assume you mis-read it.

[eirebhoy]

You're right & we're all wrong......
Who'd "we're all"? I'd say there's more people that wouldn't play Holland than those who would.

How do you explain my above post (#16)?

[ken foree]

I'd say there's more people that wouldn't play Holland than those who would.

including brian kerr? ;) personally i'd show a little more faith in holland, it might be that kerr is doing the same. i'm sure he remembers his goals against portugal away and cameroon, not least his performances in the qualifiers for wc 2002. sure some time has passed since and he's not setting the world alight but i'm trying to not be so short-sighted ;)

[fergalr]

Let the join the ranks of the mostly silent majority and say that IMHO Holland will not be missed. I struggle to remember many great performances by him in a green shirt. His best moments came when the midfield was being carried by RMK and we all saw how poor the Kinsella-Holland axis was on its own.

Have to admit that I've never forgiven him coming on and then going AWOL at that last minute corener in Skopje.

[ken foree]

Have to admit that I've never forgiven him coming on and then going AWOL at that last minute corener in Skopje.

i know what you mean, i have the same problem with lee carsley

[Bowsy]

Admittedly Holland has produced little for Ireland in recent times but how can people think it's a good thing that he's injured with a pool of players as shallow as ours. Personally I think Holland and Keane would complement each other. Holland's partners in recent times have been Healy, Kilbane, Kinsella and Kavanagh. Whatever you say a combination of any of those 2 is a very average International midfield. Holland at club level is a better central midfielder than anyone else in our squad bar RMK and playing with RMK will really help him I feel. Whether he would play or not, not having in the squad is a real blow.

[eirebhoy]

It doesn't bode well for Holland if he needs to be partnered with someone decent for him to play anywhere near half decent. He has probably been partnered with Keane 4 or 5 times in a competitive match [Andorra (a), Holland (h), Cyprus (h), Iran (h)] and you'd be doing well to even remember him in any of those games other than Andorra (a) when he scored.

BTW - Holland has never partnered Kav. Kavanagh's 2 starts under Kerr (he had 3 but 1 only lasted 11mins) have been with Kilbane.

Davros agree's with a post that mentions RMK in good light. :eek:

[Bowsy]

Holland has never partnered Kav. Kavanagh's 2 starts under Kerr (he had 3 but 1 only lasted 11mins) have been with Kilbane.



You're right there. I was thinking of Brazil but Holland played on the right if i remember.

I know where you're coming from Eirebhoy but I just don't agree Holland is that horrible a player that we don't need him even in the squad. Kav could be an option but he's yet to show me anything (admittedly he ahsn't had much chance) against decent international oppositon to suggest he should completely oust Holland.

[Slash/ED]

Kavanagh performed better against Cyprus and in the bit he played against the Swiss than Holland has for us in a long time. Lacking talent is one thing, and Holland does not lack the talent to play at this level, but his spineless invisible performences when we needed him were an absolute disgrace.

[eirebhoy]

I know where you're coming from Eirebhoy but I just don't agree Holland is that horrible a player that we don't need him even in the squad.
Its not that I don't want him in the squad. Against the Swiss I wanted Kavanagh to partner Keane, Kerr chose Kilbane and it failed. I'm just afraid Kerr would chose Holland over Kav against the French when he hasn't impressed in ages. You may say its a big risk playing Kav against the French but I honestly think its even a bigger risk playing Holland as (from his performances over the last 2 years) he's more likely to play bad than he is to play well. Kav has played well in every game for Ireland so far and would never be intimidated by playing away from home.

I don't think its much of a risk as to the quality of opposition he faces. He played full premiership games against the likes of Arsenal, Leeds, Villa (Houghton et al) at the age of 20.

[thejollyrodger]

I thought kavanagh played far better against the swiss even with the injury he picked up that holland every did. He was like one of the old type players for ireland (eg euro 88, italia 90). Lots of mental toughness, presence on the field, if not the best with skill. He was giving plenty of sh1te to those scummy swiss players on the sideline and on the field.

Holland on the other hand looks like a big girls blouse, a girl almost. Running away from any tackle on the pitch.