1-1 final result

[Dan Druff]

Originally posted by Beanie
Kerr can pull of good results in friendlies and he may be a decent bloke with good man management skills, but his teams when it comes to the crunch lack character and the Killer instinct and tactically are extremely unsound..Eoin Hand mark two!!!

Agreed..Kerr seems like a nice chap, and its great to have an Irish manager born and bred..but he has had control of the team for a year now but to be honest they aren't playing very well in the crunch matches, limping to the finish line. If they don't qualify for the World Cup then sparks will fly and a new manager should be on the cards. The jurys still out as far as a lot of the players are not match fit..but tactically they left a lot to be desired.

[pete]

Given obviously MOTM.

Defense ok but stayed too deep.
Kilbane & Keane woeful in centre of pitch in 1st half in particular. Keane could have given goal away but Kilbane made up for that later.
Reid was anonymous, lost ball, gave away ball, game too big for him too soon. Different playing minnows like Cyprus. Can't play him in Paris.
Duff did his best, tight marking & lack of support didn't help.
Morrison took goal well, Keabe busy & only for some dodgy offsides would have scored.

In hindsight should have brought Kavanagh on sooner as looked better when Kilbane on the wing as good some releaving free kicks from his runs.

Roy Keane has been hyped up as saviour & as predicted he not the player he was & will only get worse. He probably improves team but not by the degree many people thought.

Kerr is naturally cautious & no surprise at tactics.

France & Switzerland have dropped 2 points each already, Ireland & Israel the happiest so far. Group far from obvious. Switzerland were not great away from home last campaign & Cyprus & Israel away gonna be trickey for the top 3 teams.

btw anyone see the 2nd frnech goal at Faroes. Froward a a mile offside, ball played to wing & cross tapped home by earlier offisde forward!!! Cannot see how that can be allowed. :eek:

[eirebhoy]

Seriously, are people forgetting that we were playing away from home? People's comments on this thread wouldn't be any different if we played like this at home.

Secondly, we were playing a team who got to the last 16 in Europe by winning their group (one of 10 teams to do so) and played well at the championships in a tough group except for 30 minutes against England. We also deservedly lost to the Swiss twice in the last campaign. I have to reiterate, if we were on neutral ground I would be disappointed with a draw but have a look at our away results against our two toughest opponents in the qualifiers over the years:

Switzerland 2-0 Ireland
Russia 4-2 Ireland
Holland 2-2 Ireland
Portugal 1-1 Ireland
Yugoslavia 1-0 Ireland
Croatia 1-0 Ireland
Romania 1-0 Ireland
Portugal 3-0 Ireland
Austria 3-1 Ireland
Spain 0-0 Ireland
Denmark 0-0 Ireland
England 1-1 Ireland
Poland 3-3 Ireland
Spain 2-0 Ireland
Hungary 0-0 Ireland
Belgium 2-2 Ireland
Bulgaria 2-1 Ireland
Scotland 0-1 Ireland - 1987

I can only take the following presumption from people's disappointment with that result and that is, people are expecting us to win every match with the possible exception of France. The reason I say this is because the Swiss away match, on paper, is our toughest match after the French.

May I just add. While I'm not defending Carr's performance, it was Roy's silly pass that got him booked and if he wasn't booked so early on things could have been different.

This is a quote from a nother forum:

I'm living in France and have spent the past few weeks working in Switzerland for a telecoms company. The build up wasn't that big but I have to tell you that the Swiss expected to easily win last nights game. Most papers were predicting 2-1 or 2-0 victories and the headlines this morning ran like "Not Over Yet..."

They were expecting to win last nights game and draw their away match but we upset them by taking a point. Maybe most expected all 3 points but from reading European papers, very few people outside of Ireland expected us to take any points from the game.


France & Switzerland have dropped 2 points each already
Exactly.

[Closed Account 2]

Well we have to bear in mind that the 2 Keanes and Duff dont seem to be anything like match fit, and as such were always going to be below par last night. Im sure if we'd had a fully fit Robbie Keane he'd have put away a few more chances, as it was his comeback was rushed. Didn't Roy Keane just come back from a rib injury too ?. What worries me is Duff, he didnt look as good as usual. Its probably coz he's not getting to many games at Chelsea, which is bad for us as he'll struggle to make the Chelsea team as much this since they signed Robin.

The other thing I think last night showed was that Kilbane is not up to doing a holding/defensive midfield job. He often gave possesion away and its one thing to do that if you sprinting down the wing but its quite another to do that if youre supposed to be a holding player. In a crucial match away from home its high folly to play him in the center. Kavanagh on the other hand looked immense when he went on. He's a clever player, gives the opposition just enough aggro to annoy them but not enough to get pulled up for it. Here (http://www.cardiffcity-mad.co.uk/footydb/loadpcrr.asp?pid=1437) are his recent stats in club football, it looks like he's not been sent off in his whole career! He's not bad at free kicks too (I remember he scored a good one 2 years ago v Leeds in the cup) and takes pens for Cardiff. It looks like he really cares about doing well, so I'd start with him in the midfield next match. Shame we didnt have him last time round as im sure he'd have have done a good job vs the Hakins and the Russians.

Over the past 2 sets of matches, against superior opposition, Austria, Bosnia and NI have showed what a team of hard working, motivated but not necessarily superbly gifted players can do.

[eirebhoy]

May I also add. Chelsea beat Man Utd play exactly like us last night and people praised them. We "beat" (Robbie was onside) the Swiss last night away from home and the players, and manager, are getting slated.

Offside claim (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7092)
Disallowed goal (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7093)

[liam88]

Anyone catch Mr. Davros on Sky Sports during the first half? :D
Was sitting cheering the boys on when all of a sudden he appears on ma screen! Gave him a ring to tell him he's on and heard something about being struck of his Christmas card list? Fill me in when you're back Dav......

As for the team I think fair play to them though I get more frustrated everytime I see that Morrison header....

Sky Sports website told me kick-off was at 8 so I turned on about 7.45 and Hakin floggin Yakin had just scored!!! Disgracefull :rolleyes:

Aw well......

[Emmet]

I thought that Roy Keane and Duff lacked real match fitness and this affected their second half-performances especially. Carr's performance was difficult to assess from the TV: he got the ball and kept bringing it inside to the midfield area where there were more Swiss players and Irish. He might have been doing that because Reid wasn't showing for the ball or simply because he was playing badly.

Given showed he is a truly class goalkeeper and I thought that the team as a whole did well in difficult circumstances - dodgy ref, dodgy linesman, and lots of niggly tackles from the Swiss players slowing down our play.

If that's the best Switzerland have got, we'll turn them over comfortably at Lansdowne.

Emmet

[ptegan]

This is a quote from a nother forum:

I'm living in France and have spent the past few weeks working in Switzerland for a telecoms company.....


Cool. I'm getting quoted cross-forums :p

While I'll admit that from what I've read here the Swiss were pretty poor last night, I still can't understand those that expected us to easily beat them. It's funny to read posts of those that mention how bad they played in the Euro 2004 group, yet fail to remember that it was them that got through and not us. Maybe we were just unlucky but when a team is almost always unlucky against the same team doesn't it maybe hint to something other than luck being against us?

Just for info, how are the Irish papers writing it up? Good or bad?

[eirebhoy]

Nice to see a few people taking the positives. We would all have took 4 points from the first two games. I'd certainly prefer to draw with the Swiss playing badly rather than drawing with them play at 100%. We all know most of the players can play better so stop worrying about the performance.

The French have just had their worst start to qualification in years. They had 40,000 at the Israel match and while we are a more attractive fixture to them, due to their bad start and the fact that they probably see the Swiss as their main rivals as they holding them for 75mins at Euro 2004 while we didn't even qualify. Therefore I can't see the French out numbering the Irish by much for than 5/3. If thats the case, the Irish will be louder and I hope the players try to think of it as a home game.

[razor]

May I also add. Chelsea beat Man Utd play exactly like us last night and people praised them. We "beat" (Robbie was onside) the Swiss last night away from home and the players, and manager, are getting slated.

Offside claim (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7092)
Disallowed goal (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=7093)

On the disallowed goal by the time the ball was actually played i think Robbie may have been a yard or two offside.
The offside one is a no brainer, cheating linesman.

[Dan Druff]

Its interesting to see that the further we get away from the match, the more the memory fades, the more positive people are inclined to think about the game. Last night at about 9pm I was frustrated at the rubbish I was witnessing onscreen, and can't say I was feeling positive! :eek:

[trevy]

The game finished poorly but a point away to the Swiss isn't a bad result considering we lost 2-0 the last time we played them.We should be good enough to beat the Swiss at home and I wouldn't be surprised if we took a point from France next month who seem to be struggling.Kerr is a cautious manager so shouldn't be surprised at him settling for a point.Given made some fine saves.

[eirebhoy]

Its interesting to see that the further we get away from the match, the more the memory fades, the more positive people are inclined to think about the game. Last night at about 9pm I was frustrated at the rubbish I was witnessing onscreen, and can't say I was feeling positive! :eek:
I've been positive since the match ended. The reason for this is probably because I didn't watch Dunphy + Giles analysis until 00.30 last night so had time to make up my own impression without them putting me on a downer. :)

Two questions. Would you have took a draw before the match? If so, would you prefer us to draw with all our players playing at their best or most of them playing crap?

[Volltreffer]

The Swiss are being accused of Arrogance, being obnoxious, crap at international football etc........ It sounds like some of the Irish fans are setting the trend in this regard.........
I'ts good to read this from an Irish fan. It has been on my mind for quite a while, but I didn't feel like mentioning it here.

Best part of the night was realising that I can lip-read:
Kav (at HakYakin after his yellow card): " You W4nk3r, f00king w4nk3r, your a f00king w4nk3r, w4nk3r" its poetic, isnt it!

You didn't have to lipread when Kavanagh, still in his tracksuit & standing beside Haas(?) taking a throw in, was calling him "a fcuking arse-hole" right into is ear. Hilarious stuff. Best moment of the second half for me.
"Best part of the night" ... "best moment of the second half" ... :rolleyes: I'm glad you enjoyed the game.

I'd rather see a Swiss player spit at his opponent once in his career and pay for it rather than having this crap over and over again without any consequences.

There once was a myth of Irish sportsmanship ...

[koneinc]

If we don't beat these at home we're simply not worthy of qualifying for a major tournament.

couldn't agree more!

[razor]

There once was a myth of Irish sportsmanship ...

Pity there was never one about the Swiss.
Hakin Yakin proved the Swiss level of sportsmanship last night.
Scumbag.

[Dan Druff]

Originally posted by eirebhoy
Two questions. Would you have took a draw before the match? If so, would you prefer us to draw with all our players playing at their best or most of them playing crap?


Funnily enough I though Brady, Giles and Dunphy were harder on them half time, when I was fairly happy.
I would have taken a 1-1 before the match, however what bugged me was the sheer incompetence of the performance in the second half..every time they got the ball it went out for a throw, tempers were flaring, and the Swiss were allowed back into the match as the Irish were so deep. Luckily the Swiss certainly weren't at the top of their game either..I just feel we can do a lot better and who knows..we might end up in 2nd place going into the playoffs and rue not winning this match of beating the Cypriots by more the 3 goals.
We'll have to up the performance against a side in better form than the Swiss last night, or we might find ourselves getting embarrassed.

[Slash/ED]

They were expecting to win last nights game and draw their away match but we upset them by taking a point. Maybe most expected all 3 points but from reading European papers, very few people outside of Ireland expected us to take any points from the game.


Not to sound arrogant but I don't see why. Looking at our players we simply have a better team, I'm sorry if that's arrogant but that's my honest assesment after looking at both teams players. We should be able to beat teams like Switzerland, I mean I know it's meaningless and all but they're what, 50 places behind us in the world rankings? Maybe slightly less but they're far behind us anyway. If we'd actually played to our potential we should have beaten this side, we nearly did and when we played absolute garbage ffs. We should beat these at home, if we don't questions have to be asked of Kerr, simple as that.

I know we were away from home but our own garbage away record can't be used to justify more rubbish away performances. I don't see the logic there. If the manager can't get the players to perform in away matches than that's his problem, he can't just say well we have a crap away record anyway.

[Closed Account 2]

It's funny to read posts of those that mention how bad they played in the Euro 2004 group, yet fail to remember that it was them that got through and not us.

In Euro 2004 the Swiss didnt play that badly per say, granted their football had very little style. But against a decent Croatia they got a 0-0, depsite having Burnt Arse sent off early on - not a bad result. They were pretty shoddy against the English (although from what I remember they had a decent opening 15 mins or so), as the game went on they just sort of gave up pretty badly. Against the French (their last match) they were ok in parts. Overall I'd say they had two average games and one stinker, which isnt that bad in the grand scheme of things - Similar to the Spanish and Germans.


I'd rather see a Swiss player spit at his opponent once in his career and pay for it rather than having this crap over and over again without any consequences.

Practically everyone does it nowadays (and has done for 20 years) yer man Yakin is an expert at it, actually the pair of them are.

[Volltreffer]

Pity there was never one about the Swiss.
Hakin Yakin proved the Swiss level of sportsmanship last night.
Scumbag.
Myths are not worth very much in the present.

Could you be a bit more specific about Yakin? I'll watch the replay of the game over the weekend, I'd like to know what I have to look out for.

[Volltreffer]

Practically everyone does it nowadays (and has done for 20 years) yer man Yakin is an expert at it, actually the pair of them are.
How often have you seen them play?

Even if they do/did, we wouldn't think of idolizing them for this reason.

[Stuttgart88]

There once was a myth of Irish sportsmanship ...

Hey, come on Volltreffer. I just thought it was funny hearing on TV a true blue Dub in a broad Dublin accent trying to wind up his opponent, as if it'd have any effect. I think you're being a bit naive if you don't think your lads do the same. Murat Yakin was at it all night. It's just it wasn't right beside the TV microphone. For me the Kavanagh incident was a funny TV moment, the only light moment in what for me was a tense game. :)

I don't know what you mean by "over & over again without any consequences" either and think you're over-reacting big time. And please don't tell me that gobbing on a player (even if he is English!) from behind and then denying any knowledge of it and lying to his bosses is in the same league as two decent Irish fans having a laugh over the internet over a bit of sledging. In fact one of the funniest sports stories I ever heard involved two cricketers winding each other up in an Australia vs India test match.

For what it's worth I think you're a decent footy team with a great ground & great fans and I'd have loved to have been there. Hakin Yakin is a fine player and if you check my previous posts I've been nothing but respectful of your team.

[Bowsy]

There once was a myth of Irish sportsmanship ...

Personally i think it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. We haven't done ourselves any favours by reacting to arrogance with exactly the same thing. All i know is that there hasn't been so much ill feeling between our side and another team in a long time.

I take your point on the Kavanagh thing but you should look to home too. Yakin kicking the ball in touch right in the corner and then pressing up on it when we had kicked the ball out for treatment to a Swiss player was particularly nice.

While impressed with them as players, I'm very much unimpressed by the Yakin Brothers and Frei as people.

[razor]

I take your point on the Kavanagh thing but you should look to home too. Yakin kicking the ball in touch right in the corner and then pressing up on it when we had kicked the ball out for treatment to a Swiss player was particularly nice.

Volltreffer, take note.


While impressed with them as players, I'm very much unimpressed by the Yakin Brothers and Frei as people.
Agree 100%

[Metrostars]

We all must remember that this is just the second game of a 10 game marathon. Also this was most likely the third most difficult game for these qualifiers (the two France games being tougher). It's the results that count. We got a result and I think that the Swiss should be more unhappy now that they have 5 away and only 3 home games left. We also know that the Swiss will drop points along the way against the likes of Israel and Cyprus as they did last time round. It's important for us that we get maximum points against Israel and the Faroes and nick a few off France and we will be sitting pretty.

I am more happy that we played crap with a number of players (robbie, keano, duff) not 100% and got a point than play great and lose.

[Closed Account 2]

How often have you seen them play?

Even if they do/did, we wouldn't think of idolizing them for this reason.

Saw them play a couple of times in the Champions League 2 years ago for Basel vs Man Utd and Basel vs Liverpool, also Euro 2004 saw the first 2 Swiss games at Euro 2004 think Hakan played in both of them. Every time ive seen him he's struck me as a very lippy player. He always seems to be complaining to refs about something or another, yet he's not the cleanest player in your side when it comes to fair play.

He's a skillfull player but I think he has a big attitude problem, comes across as thinking he's above everyone else. I remember he was supposed to move to PSG last year, but they told him not to have an operation at the start of the season - just after he signed for them he went ahead and had it, so the PSG management sacked him. That was a bit unprofessional, if an employer tells their employees not to do something and they go ahead and do it - well its just silly. Didnt his brother have similar problems with Fenerbaché or some other Turkish Club ?

We dont idolise Kav for swearing, we (well I) admire him because when he came on he looked like the only player on our side that wanted to win, plus he actually stood up to Hakan Yakin and told him he was prat (which most of our fans thought anyway). I dont have a huge problem with people swearing anyway, im pretty sure most people have done it in the heat of the moment, im not sure you could say the same about spitting at people tho (IMO actually spitting at someone is worse that swearing).

The "myth of fair play" only extends so far -there was a fair bit of a grudge between our two teams anyway. The Swiss side is probably (apart from the English) one of the sides we most want to beat for recent history-of-football reasons as it were, and as such the contest was bound to see incidents of players not keeping their cool.

[eirebhoy]

Not the best but they'll have to do for now:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav.3gp
http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav1.3gp

:D

[Volltreffer]

I think you're being a bit naive ..
Don't worry, I'm not. ;)

And please don't tell me that gobbing on a player (even if he is English!) from behind and then denying any knowledge of it and lying to his bosses is in the same league as two decent Irish fans having a laugh over the internet over a bit of sledging.
It's the "lying to his bosses" thing that I can't agree with. I saw and heard those bosses make their statements on TV. They were about as poor liars as Frei was.

With my remark about sportsmanship I exclusively referred to the players and in no way to the fans.

... and if you check my previous posts I've been nothing but respectful of your team.
Did I question that? :confused:

We haven't done ourselves any favours by reacting to arrogance with exactly the same thing. All i know is that there hasn't been so much ill feeling between our side and another team in a long time.
I'm still wondering where the arrogance thing is coming from. On Irish forums I read things Swiss players and officials are reported to have said that I've never heard in Switzerland - such as "we would even beat them playing with our wrong foot" or something like that. That's simply unimaginable.

I take your point on the Kavanagh thing but you should look to home too.
It's the Kavanagh thing that I was thinking of in the first place.

Yakin kicking the ball in touch right in the corner and then pressing up on it when we had kicked the ball out for treatment to a Swiss player was particularly nice.
I must have missed that, will sure have a look at it.

I remember last year when the Swiss kicked the ball out for some good reason and the Irish didn't give it back. I find this kind of thing extremely shameful, no matter who does it. I remember that many people were really disappointed with the Irish team because of that incident.

Every time ive seen him he's struck me as a very lippy player. He always seems to be complaining to refs about something or another, yet he's not the cleanest player in your side when it comes to fair play ... That was a bit unprofessional, if an employer tells their employees not to do something and they go ahead and do it - well its just silly. Didnt his brother have similar problems with Fenerbaché or some other Turkish Club?
I have less problems with players complaining to the ref, it's the ref's job to deal with that. For me there is a difference between swearing in the heat of the moment and systematically insulting an opponent. Where you draw the line is probably an individual thing.

My "problem" ( ;) ) is that I grew up in a sport other than football where you're expected to respect (or at least to pretend to respect) your opponent and where any violation of those rules is penalized very severely. And I have always appreciated that because it most importantly protects the athletes.

You're right about Murat, in spite of his Turkish descent he never managed to feel at ease in Turkey. The Yakins don't seem to fare well away from home. As to the PSG story, mistakes were made on both sides. You should know that the French are often extremely arrogant towards the "little Swiss" as they loke to call us. The medical staff at FC Basel was shocked when they heard how Yakin was expected to train with his groin problems, and they sure knew a lot about his health condition - and believe me, FC Basel has a high-class medical team.

Anyway, Hakan is not a clever person off the pitch and he's listening to the wrong people.

[Bowsy]

I remember last year when the Swiss kicked the ball out for some good reason and the Irish didn't give it back. I find this kind of thing extremely shameful, no matter who does it. I remember that many people were really disappointed with the Irish team because of that incident.



To be fair, I remember that.You can't miss Hakan Yakin kicking it into touch. The ref took exception to it much to Yakin's displeasure.

I think a great deal of the bad blood has come from these comments attributed to the Swiss players and media about how rubbish the Irish are. I have to say not all of these have come from less reputable members of the press but you know Swiss public opinion better than me. To think you are so much better than us that a victory last night was a formality is misguided but we have at least in recent times been just as arrogant with regards to your team's ability. To be honest there is very little separating us in standard on all the evidence. Both very good at home and mediocre away.

[Junior]

I think a great deal of the bad blood has come from these comments attributed to the Swiss players and media about how rubbish the Irish are. I have to say not all of these have come from less reputable members of the press but you know Swiss public opinion better than me. To think you are so much better than us that a victory last night was a formality is misguided but we have at least in recent times been just as arrogant with regards to your team's ability. To be honest there is very little separating us in standard on all the evidence. Both very good at home and mediocre away.

That about sums it up.

Personally I haven't particularly read any disrespectful quotes attributed to the Swiss regarding us, neither does there seem to have been many posted on this forum.

This whole 'grudge' match thing is totally over the top IMHO. We were beaten fairly and squarely, both home and away by the swiss in the euro qualifiers and this is an opportunity for us to reverse those results. Thats it, no bad tackles, no cheating, no previous injustices have turned this into a grudge match it was just a chance to make ammends.

Some of the crap posted on these threads is ridiculous. I'd banker that the return leg in Dublin is just as close and tense as last night, there is not much between us - FACT - to think anything else is dillusional.

[Bowsy]

I've bought into it as much as anyone. Got well wound up by comments attributed to the likes of Wicky, Kuhn as well as the Swiss media added to my distaste for certain members of the Swiss team as individuals.This influenced me far more than anything that happened on the pitch. Time to get on with our own campaigns until we meet in Lansdowne. Something tells me though nothing will be decided in this group until the very death.

[tricky_colour]

Not the best but they'll have to do for now:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav.3gp
http://homepage.eircom.net/~gearoidw01/kav1.3gp

:D

That plays with realplayer, and it downloads the clip every time
you play it, hence it is a waste of time and bandwith.

[Volltreffer]

That plays with realplayer, and it downloads the clip every time
you play it, hence it is a waste of time and bandwidth. ;)
In my case it plays with QuickTime Player, which means I can view it once and then copy it from Temporary Internet Files.

But it's a waste of time anyway. :p

[eirebhoy]

That plays with realplayer, and it downloads the clip every time
you play it, hence it is a waste of time and bandwith.
Just right click it and "save target as...".

[tricky_colour]

Just right click it and "save target as...".


thanks, I never came across those file types before, on some files
when you do that it just saves a 'stub' which downloads the whole
file again.

Mine played with real player, Vollertretter say Quicktime played his
(love the name quicktime when to view your first 'quicktime'
clip it envolves an hour plus download.

I don't see what either player gives you that is not already
available with microsoft media player (apart from a lot of
hassle and gobbling up drive space and resources, incompatible
file types, longer start up time etc...) apart from that its fine :p

Anyway thanks for the clips :)

[brine3]

I don't suppose anyone can get a sound byte from when Houghton said, "he came up his... er... from behind him."

[eirebhoy]

I don't suppose anyone can get a sound byte from when Houghton said, "he came up his... er... from behind him."
I'll get it for you if you give me a specific time in the match. I'm not watching the whole thing over again. ;)

[brine3]

The second half? :D

No, I wouldn't wish it upon anyone to have to watch that match again.

[Junior]

Vollertretter say Quicktime played his


thats a 'She' by the way.....

[Plastic Paddy]

blame Fecking Int.roaming costs though.....rec.a mere 7 texts(Thanks PP)to say the same!

Sheesh, that Guinness I was drinking with Pat O must have been strongter than I thought, as I don't recall texting you. If I'd have realised your ugly mug was on the telly, I'd have asked Sky for my money back! :p

;) PP