Summer football

[Charlie Darwin]

This might sound like an incredibly dense question, but what exactly is the reason for the "standard" football calendar being Autumn-Summer at junior and senior level?

Closest I can figure is that it coincides with the school calendar and that summer is GAA country.

If this is an incredibly dense question, feel free to humiliate me.

[White Horse]

Tradition, I presume. Following the pattern established in England.

Wasn't football played by cricket clubs there during the winter.

[Jofspring]

Any time I'ver seen it questioned people have just said "cause it's the way it's always been".

[nigel-harps1954]

Because it's better that way.

[pineapple stu]

Tradition, I presume. Following the pattern established in England.

Wasn't football played by cricket clubs there during the winter.
Sounds right to me. (Well, not entirely sure about cricket clubs playing football as well - could be the case, but the rest of your post seems spot on)

[JC_GUFC]

Sounds right to me. (Well, not entirely sure about cricket clubs playing football as well - could be the case, but the rest of your post seems spot on)

Yeah that's spot on. Not all football clubs played cricket but some did. A few of the Italian clubs were set up as both, Genoa's official name is Genoa Cricket and Football Club.

[Spudulika]

This might sound like an incredibly dense question, but what exactly is the reason for the "standard" football calendar being Autumn-Summer at junior and senior level?

Closest I can figure is that it coincides with the school calendar and that summer is GAA country.

If this is an incredibly dense question, feel free to humiliate me.

CD, there's a long history in it and the nutshell is this - school years were based on when kids weren't needed to help out - ie when there were no crops in the field (no Country music jokes). So when the crops were coming in kids went back to school around that time. In order to get kids into the right streams they needed an age cut off, so the first schoolday (1st of September) was used, moreso in the UK and Ireland. This meant that cut offs for age group events were September 1st so those born after were okay, born before and they're a year up. As a result the beginning of many events (for kids) began from this point.

Okay, that's age group talk, but the season element builds into it - Summers were busy for the Victorian gentry as they were off romping around Greece etc or making sure the peasants/mill workers/colonials were doing what they were supposed to. So they weren't really up for "organising" mass participation sports. Once there was down time (Autumn-Spring) and just a little less outdoor work to be done, they had their mass sports to keep the oiks from kicking up. Also in milder weather countries this worked as sports could be played outdoors without great difficulty.

Before anyone jumps on this, I picked it up in a symposium in NUI Maynooth and Ray Gillespie discussed it - it was based on the Roman bread and games motif. Basically, when the masses are not busy, they're thinking, so keep them busy - cheap booze, sports, cheap entertainment and enough food to keep them from rioting in the streets. I guess the Greeks mustn't be into sports, or fetid cheese.

[Macy]

This might sound like an incredibly dense question, but what exactly is the reason for the "standard" football calendar being Autumn-Summer at junior and senior level?

Closest I can figure is that it coincides with the school calendar and that summer is GAA country.

If this is an incredibly dense question, feel free to humiliate me.
Tradition. And that's not a poor reason.

[brendy_éire]

Tradition. And that's not a poor reason.

That's an awful reason. Things should always be open to change.
Traditionally, pubs were closed on Sundays.
Personally, I don't see the point in winter football in this country. We just don't have the weather for it.

[Dodge]

I don't see the point in summer football, we just don't have the weather for it

[Macy]

That's an awful reason. Things should always be open to change.
Traditionally, pubs were closed on Sundays.
Personally, I don't see the point in winter football in this country. We just don't have the weather for it.
Was avoiding getting into the old debate. But what's measurable benefits has summer football brought us? Measurable benefits, not the bs reasons that were given when we were sold the pup.

Coming off the summer we had, are you really using the weather as a reason? Seriously?

[brendy_éire]

Coming off the summer we had, are you really using the weather as a reason? Seriously?

Dont want to get into this either, so I'll keep it short.
Yes, weather. It rains less and it's warmer.
I still go to a fair few IL matches, it's far more comfortable in the summer.

[Candystripe]

It's better because Brendy and his buddies won't be as cold as they wear shorts to most away games.

[Charlie Darwin]

I just think summer evenings are very nice. If I had a family I'd be much more likely to bring kids on a summer's night than a winter's night.

[Mr A]

Summer evenings may be very nice.. but that doesn't actually seem to encourage people to come to games.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's hard to quantify really. I think it is more receptive to families but it might discourage other people from coming.

[nigel-harps1954]

I just think summer evenings are very nice. If I had a family I'd be much more likely to bring kids on a summer's night than a winter's night.

On nice summer evenings, from what I see, attendances seem to go down.

It's the dull, cold, dark winters night that used to bring in the crowds.

[Dodge]

I just think summer evenings are very nice. If I had a family I'd be much more likely to bring kids on a summer's night than a winter's night.

You'd more than likely have a missus who'd prefer to be in a park or on a beach or numerous others places. Far more option available to people in the summer in my experience

[peadar1987]

As with everything, it needs to be marketed. The LOI wasn't marketed as a summer evening activity, bring the family, wear shorts and a T-shirt, have a nice barbecue while watching the game. And so everyone who used to come still comes, and everyone who stayed away still stays away, for the same reasons they always did.

[adamd164]

I miss aspects of winter football. At least in part because the off-season seems to be ridiculously long now with a break from November-March.

You rarely see LOI games being postponed due to weather now, that'd probably worsen if we went back to winter football. On the flip side we'd avoid clashing with the bogball and stickball sports.

Mostly I don't see it happening though because of the hassle/expense/disadvantage it causes for teams in Europe. And when we're back in Europe I'll be happier with summer footie again!

[JC_GUFC]

Measurable benefits, not the bs reasons that were given when we were sold the pup.

Coming off the summer we had, are you really using the weather as a reason? Seriously?

It has definitely helped in clubs' preparation for European football and generally results have improved. Look how the SPL and Irish League clubs struggle against ' in season' teams.

As for the weather you aren't going to seriously argue that there is little difference between the weather from November through February compared to May through August?
Whether it makes any difference is really debatable. As Dodge says there are plenty of other options on a fine summer evening.

I think there would be a good opportunity to promits the league in May once the Premier League is over but the FAI have made no effort at this.

[shellyriver]

CD, there's a long history in it and the nutshell is this - school years were based on when kids weren't needed to help out - ie when there were no crops in the field (no Country music jokes). So when the crops were coming in kids went back to school around that time. In order to get kids into the right streams they needed an age cut off, so the first schoolday (1st of September) was used, moreso in the UK and Ireland. This meant that cut offs for age group events were September 1st so those born after were okay, born before and they're a year up. As a result the beginning of many events (for kids) began from this point.

Okay, that's age group talk, but the season element builds into it - Summers were busy for the Victorian gentry as they were off romping around Greece etc or making sure the peasants/mill workers/colonials were doing what they were supposed to. So they weren't really up for "organising" mass participation sports. Once there was down time (Autumn-Spring) and just a little less outdoor work to be done, they had their mass sports to keep the oiks from kicking up. Also in milder weather countries this worked as sports could be played outdoors without great difficulty.

Before anyone jumps on this, I picked it up in a symposium in NUI Maynooth and Ray Gillespie discussed it - it was based on the Roman bread and games motif. Basically, when the masses are not busy, they're thinking, so keep them busy - cheap booze, sports, cheap entertainment and enough food to keep them from rioting in the streets. I guess the Greeks mustn't be into sports, or fetid cheese.

Not really as simple as that, by the C19th many of the elite resident Gentry were either in Parliament (winter season - ie football season) and therefore not present during this season or where generally absentee.

Current sports season model is based on C19th English sport culture which dictated that Cricket can only be played in dry weather - to allow ball bounce etc, while Football could be played in muddy winter fields - so it is a circular round-year season.

Masses in urban areas, had dog-fighting, bull-baiting, ****-fighting, bullets, along with gambling to keep them occupied - even rural population had handball and hurling.

Very few elites in Ireland had any involvement in promoting sport amongst masses.

By and large the Irish population was pre-occupied with European opiates, religion, politics (land ownership) and beer -- without Ascendancy having to worry about occupying their sporting inclinations.

I have talked to top Irish Sport academics about this, which with respect, trumps Mr Gillespie. You do appreciate academics differ and sports diffusion was not about keeping untermensch down, but allowing greater social cohesion.

[Macy]

It has definitely helped in clubs' preparation for European football and generally results have improved. Look how the SPL and Irish League clubs struggle against ' in season' teams.

As for the weather you aren't going to seriously argue that there is little difference between the weather from November through February compared to May through August?
Whether it makes any difference is really debatable. As Dodge says there are plenty of other options on a fine summer evening.

I think there would be a good opportunity to promits the league in May once the Premier League is over but the FAI have made no effort at this.
iirc Crowds are at the lowest during the summer months. But there's been no real measurable benefits - even european performances are open to other variables, and then the impact on the wider league rather than the particular club isn't significant even if you do give credit to summer football.

[Rover'n'out]

Slightly off topic, but I feel the off season is too long right now - nearly 4 months. Most other leagues have about 3 moths off. Another round of matches might have been possible: based on 12 team Prem division 44 games - might sound like a lot but compared to English Championship, League 1 and League 2 they play 46 league games. I know we have Setanta cup and some teams have Europe - but the English clubs have other competions too I think (LDV etc from memory). I just think they could extend the season by a month and the clubs would have extra revenue from games and the players would not have to be on the 'dole' for as long.

[BonnieShels]

Slightly off topic, but I feel the off season is too long right now - nearly 4 months. Most other leagues have about 3 moths off. Another round of matches might have been possible: based on 12 team Prem division 44 games - might sound like a lot but compared to English Championship, League 1 and League 2 they play 46 league games. I know we have Setanta cup and some teams have Europe - but the English clubs have other competions too I think (LDV etc from memory). I just think they could extend the season by a month and the clubs would have extra revenue from games and the players would not have to be on the 'dole' for as long.


The English Championship, League 1 and League 2 have 24 teams making 46 games in a regular season a sensible approach (not including play-offs).

Another round of games in Ireland would be plain daft with 11 in the Prem this season at the end and let's not forget to mention that we would have another round in the First Division while we are at it.

Spacing the calendar more sensibly would be a better idea but would involve clubs paying players more money for the same amount of games. The calendar's crapness can't just be levelled at the FAIlures as it is. The clubs are involved in it's concoction however nominal that involvement may seem.

[nigel-harps1954]

Getting rid of weekday fixtures would be a start.