Interesting stat on Irish fans watching premiership games

[paul_oshea]

You can get the full breakdown on VisitBritain.co.uk but the Irish had the most number of visitors to Premiership games last season at 174k. Norway were the next closest with 80k. Interesting that we are only twice the number. The norwegian league seems to be fairly well run.

[Junior]

So if we assume that Irish fans in the main attend home games for the club they support. That would work out a circa 9k per game. Say they are following the top 5 or 6 teams in the EPL (excluding Roberto our resident Wigan fan ;))- 1.5k per home game per club? Sound reasonable?

I presume it excludes SPL etc... i.e it was actually data gathered by EPL clubs?

[peadar1987]

The difference is Norwegians watch their own league as well, which is the way it should be in Ireland.

[paul_oshea]

Stutts favourite paper has a piece on it

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/oct/21/football-tourism-premier-league

"Football tourists collectively spent £706m, or £785 per fan – £200 more than the average visitor to Britain – with many arriving during the traditionally quieter period for tourism between January and March.

The allure of British football is most keenly pronounced in Norway, with one in 13 visitors from the country – 80,000 – watching a match. Other countries generating high numbers of football spectator visits include Ireland (174,000), the US (61,000), Spain (54,000) and Germany (48,000)."

[paul_oshea]

So 1mil + went to britain from Norway last year? I would have thought the Irish would have similar levels, perhaps they don't distinguish for us.

[Stuttgart88]

What's the cumulative no of attendees in a LoI season?

[Stuttgart88]

The difference is Norwegians watch their own league as well, which is the way it should be in Ireland.I agree that's how it should be. I wonder how many of those traveling Norwegians do actually follow their own league though, or are therre two discreet camps by and large - domestic fans and EPL fans?

[Bungle]

I met a few Norwegian lads that I kept in touch with from years ago at the World Cup in the States. They were all mad Liverpool and Rosenburg fans with one of two United. Most of our lot were Liverpool and a few United so it was similiar. The key difference was they all went to domestic games, of our lot only myself and two lads (out of 11) would have regularly gone to games in Ireland.

[Acornvilla]

What's the cumulative no of attendees in a LoI season?

Averages after the end of the First Division:

PREMIER DIVISION

Bohs - 1488 (2011 - 1,488; 2010- 1,835; 2009 - 2,366; 2008 - 1,993; 2007 - 1,924; 2006 - 1,463; 2005 - 1,976)
Bray - 970 (1,121; 952; 1,169; 1,106; 1,200; 1,027; 1,550)
Cork - 2786 (2,128 FD; 1,693 FD; 2,681; 3,142; 2,897; 2,941; 3,644)
Derry - 1436 (2,135; 1,965 FD; 2,436; 3,363; 2,614; 3,229; 2,698)
Drogheda - 963 (811; 859; 1,106; 1,631; 1,919; 1,751; 1,682)
Dundalk - 981 (1,355; 1,877; 2,371; 1,459 FD; 1,406 FD; 1,078 FD; 474 FD)
Pat's - 1494 (1,346; 1,756; 1,631; 1,795; 1,910; 1,342; 1,599)
Rovers - 3171 (3,779; 3,794; 3,611; 1,468; 1,715; 1,089 FD; 1,539)
Shels - 1187 (781 FD; 737 FD; 972 FD; 986 FD; 888 FD; 1,690; 1,949)
Sligo - 2801 (2,103; 1,807; 1,756; 1,960; 1,448; 1,806; 1,794 FD)
UCD - 507 (558; 610; 272 FD; 546; 663; 546; 653; 306 FD)

FIRST DIVISION

Athlone - 271 (200; 354; 462; 387; 670; 421; 316)
Harps - 429 (433; 644; 480; 1,607 PD; 1,164; 428; 1,347 PD; 1,106) -
Limerick - 734 (569; 598; 429; 517; 670; 364; 669)
Longford - 365 (315; 230; 260; 406; 885 PD; 681 PD; 1,004 PD)
Mervue - 243 (349; 123; 166)
SD Galway - 182 (125; 122 - As Salthill Devon FC)
Waterford - 453 (466; 619; 434; 670; 1,181 PD; 915 PD; 1,513 PD)
Wexford - 302 (216; 343; 494; 767; 810)

PREMIER AVERAGE: 1617 (1,547, 1,512; 2,010; 1,746; 1,687; 1,535; 1,759)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 372 (578, 682; 417; 641; 722; 570; 520)

OVERALL AVERAGE: 1093 (1,110, 1,095; 1,175; 1,221; 1,235; 1,070; 1,195)

not what you asked for, but close enough to get the picture..

[IsMiseSean]

Would the fact that half the Norwegian squad recently was made up of players from their own league have anything to do with it?

[nigel-harps1954]

What's the cumulative no of attendees in a LoI season?

This season, going into the final weekend, 302,069 people in total between both the Premier and First Divisions.

[Stuttgart88]

It's a virtuous circle if it can be started.

Crowds, attract players, attract more crowds, attract more players…

What's the firrst step though - crowds or players?

[paul_oshea]

Chicken or the Egg Stutts?

[Stuttgart88]

So, over 30 games that's 533,000 Premier Division attendees in total. That's about 3 times the number that travel to the EPL over the course of a (longer) season.

Of course more go over to watch the likes of Leeds, Celtic and, eh, Wednesday and Wigan (we know who you are!).

Nearly 9,000 attend the Airtricity Premier Division every weekend (sum of the weekly average is 17,800, divided by 2).

175,000 go to an EPL game every season. That's 4,600 per game (38 games). What's a conservative guess for weekly Celtic, Leeds and others - 1,000? 1,500?

Let's say 6,000 go to the UK every weekend. That's 40% of the total number of Irish that watch pro football at the weekends.

I'd love to know how many would also go to a domestic game. My taxi driver in Dublin last week was a breath of fresh air - regular at Tallaght, occasional at QPR (Don Givens' legacy!) but I suspect it's a lower share than Norway.

[Dodge]

Nearly 9,000 attend the Airtricity Premier Division every weekend (sum of the weekly average is 17,800, divided by 2)

That'd be a fair bit misleading. More games in the premier eah week (5 to 4) and crowds in opremier far, far bigger (even in our modest terms) in the Premier

In that chicken & egg situaton, the answer is the farmer has to invest in the farm a bit more. There is ZERO cash inflow from the League into the League clubs (through regular worldwide established income channels such as TC revenue and proze money). Currently the FAI award less in prize money than the total of all participation fees. Clubs don't get a single euro for their games being covered on live TV.

We have little or no outside investment either. Thats the main difference with practically every country in Europe. There's nothing wrong with Irish people watching football on TV and picking favourites. Or even travelling occasionally to watch them. But the lack of respect for the local league is pretty unique to Ireland

[Stuttgart88]

I didn't understand the first bit above.

Agree with the rest. How is TV money distributed - equally regardless of appearances?

[paul_oshea]

Perhaps not at all - or indirectly I imagine.

[pineapple stu]

How do you work out where people are coming from? I bought tickets at the turnstiles last season (WBA v Wigan); presumably that doesn't count? Though presumably it's an insignificant percentage of total visitors.

Looks like basically as many people actually go to games in the LoI Premier Division as in the English Premier Division.

[Colbert Report]

Damien Duff playing in the LOI could be the major shot in the arm the league needs to get exposure and more people coming to games, a la David Beckham over here in the MLS

[SkStu]

Damien Duff playing in the LOI could be the major shot in the arm the league needs to get exposure and more people coming to games, a la David Beckham over here in the MLS

Nah, the Gareth Farrelly experiment failed miserably for Bohs.... ;) ;)

[nigel-harps1954]

Damien Duff playing in the LOI could be the major shot in the arm the league needs to get exposure and more people coming to games, a la David Beckham over here in the MLS

If someone was able to pay his wages it would be a great idea alright.

[Colbert Report]

He told Ken Early a couple of months ago that he'd "100% finish his career in the LOI".

[Charlie Darwin]

But not for Shamrock Rovers, which means he'd have to do it for peanuts. Not that Rovers pay much more than that anyway.

[dong]

He said he wouldnt but I reckon that was tongue in cheek though Charlie. I'd say he'll end up in Tallaght alright.
Hes no Gary Twigg though.:cool:

[NeverFeltBetter]

Rovers....or Limerick. Heh heh heh.


Yeah, I wish.

[Dodge]

How is TV money distributed - equally regardless of appearances?

There is no TV money. LOI clubs don't receive any monies from RTE or Setanta, both of whom show their games live

[Bungle]

There is no TV money. LOI clubs don't receive any monies from RTE or Setanta, both of whom show their games live

That is absolutely crazy isn't it. If they were getting this money, it would mean that they could grow as a club, or at worst be able to stay off administration. Does the FAI get this money?

[Acornvilla]

RTE probably lose money off broadcasting the games if anything, I really can't see how the FAI could profit.

[Dodge]

RTE probably lose money off broadcasting the games if anything, I really can't see how the FAI could profit.

I'm sure the cost of Outside Broadcasts are exhorbitant, but whatever about RTE, Setanta clearly wouldn't cover a sport they think they'd lose money on. I'm sure the FAI do give the rights for nothing though.

[Bungle]

I can't help but think that a united Irish/Scottish league is the way forward (it would be great to have a Welsh presence as well but with Cardiff and Swansea playing at a high level in England, it would be unlikely that they would come on board.

I know it has been discussed on here before, but it makes sense and I think it would attract far greater investment in the game and the league would be able to attract far better players, which would increase attendances. Dublin, Glasgow, Belfast and Edinburgh are all big cities and Aberdeen, Dundee, Cork, Limerick and Derry could easily support decent and profitable clubs in such a league. It might also lead to far greater interest and attendances for already very well run clubs like Sligo. Greater incomes would also lead to more money being spent on academies and many of our best talents might make the decision to stay in Ireland, rather than go to England at 15 or 16.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sad to admit it, but ultimately the product and facilities aren't as good as Eng.or Scotland which is why so many go...
That and relatively cheap travel.

Personally, it's down to the individual. Also more people in Ireland are interested IN GAA, rugby and horse-racing. Major cultural obstacles for domestic soccer.

[Dodge]

Personally, it's down to the individual. Also more people in Ireland are interested IN GAA, rugby and horse-racing. Major cultural obstacles for domestic soccer.

This is complete BS. Football is by far and away the biggest sport. The article is about thousands of folks who travel abroad to watch football. It has NOTHING to do with GAA, rugby or horse racing.


Sad to admit it, but ultimately the product and facilities aren't as good as Eng.or Scotland which is why so many go...
Well d'uh!

The argument is that it'll never change, and Irish football (Irish football, not the League of ireland) will never prosper until its backed by Irish people. There can be no real argument about that tbh. Until there's money in the irish game for better facilities and coaching, Irish football will continue to be at the mercy of the British system that can't produce its own players (never mind ours)

And I'll say again, I've no issue with anybody who travels to England to watch games. Personal choice

[peadar1987]

I can't help but think that a united Irish/Scottish league is the way forward (it would be great to have a Welsh presence as well but with Cardiff and Swansea playing at a high level in England, it would be unlikely that they would come on board.

I know it has been discussed on here before, but it makes sense and I think it would attract far greater investment in the game and the league would be able to attract far better players, which would increase attendances. Dublin, Glasgow, Belfast and Edinburgh are all big cities and Aberdeen, Dundee, Cork, Limerick and Derry could easily support decent and profitable clubs in such a league. It might also lead to far greater interest and attendances for already very well run clubs like Sligo. Greater incomes would also lead to more money being spent on academies and many of our best talents might make the decision to stay in Ireland, rather than go to England at 15 or 16.

I think the idea has the potential to be a winner for all concerned in the long run, but the top Scottish clubs would have to be prepared to take a hit for 10 or 15 years, and I don't think that's going to happen.

I think a joint Irish/NI/Scottish cup would be a good shout though. Provided a good idea didn't get absolutely mangled like happened with the Celtic Nations Cup (How many did they really think were going to show up for NI v Wales in Lansdowne?!). You'd make enough money to run the club for a season with just one draw against Celtic or Rangers, and from their point of view, I doubt it really matters whether they're playing Annan Athletic or St. Pat's Athletic.

[Bungle]

I think the idea has the potential to be a winner for all concerned in the long run, but the top Scottish clubs would have to be prepared to take a hit for 10 or 15 years, and I don't think that's going to happen.

I think a joint Irish/NI/Scottish cup would be a good shout though. Provided a good idea didn't get absolutely mangled like happened with the Celtic Nations Cup (How many did they really think were going to show up for NI v Wales in Lansdowne?!). You'd make enough money to run the club for a season with just one draw against Celtic or Rangers, and from their point of view, I doubt it really matters whether they're playing Annan Athletic or St. Pat's Athletic.

Good shout about the cup games and I agree that we would stand to gain more in the short term than the Scots, though it could be argued that the Scottish league is in rapid decline, so it might be as welcome for them as for us.

A major obstacle would be how the league would be drawn up. I would envision a league like the Magnier's League in rugby. However, I could see that being a source of contention. It might need clubs to amalgamete or regional clubs to be formed i.e a Dublin North team and a Dublin South team or a Sligo/Galway (Connaught team). I think this would be very painful for fans of such clubs in many ways, but it might be the best thing in the long run for them to thrive and for football in this country to grow.

[Dodge]

This had been debated on here for years.

[osarusan]

A major obstacle would be how the league would be drawn up. I would envision a league like the Magnier's League in rugby. However, I could see that being a source of contention. It might need clubs to amalgamete or regional clubs to be formed i.e a Dublin North team and a Dublin South team or a Sligo/Galway (Connaught team). I think this would be very painful for fans of such clubs in many ways, but it might be the best thing in the long run for them to thrive and for football in this country to grow.

As long as you view club football only from the perspective of how it can improve the quality of the Irish team at international level, you miss the point LOI fans make.

A better Irish senior team shoud be a (most welcome) byproduct of a successful domestic league, not the aim of it.

[Junior]

Im not sure teams in the 4th tier of Scottish football would be invited in to such a competition would they?

In all seriousness though, Celtic may skew such a competition. Outside of Celtic in the SPL the other sides would be more evenly matched in terms of facilties, standard of football, fan base etc... IMO the SPL sides would have the advantage of course but the gap wouldnt be so big that results could quite regularly go either way - More competitive the more likely it would be a success.

[Charlie Darwin]

An Irish-Scottish league is a non-runner for so many, many reasons. The only reason the Scottish league is half-way viable to begin with is because of Celtic and the fact most of the clubs are bunched together in Glasgow.

[Junior]

Im not sure the proximity of clubs being based in or around Glasgow has any major influence in the success - what do you mean by that?

Obviously Celtic standout because of the size of the club, finances, infrastructure, squad etc (compared to the other competing teams).... and what that brings to the SPL

However just looking at this years SPL's clubs (and I dont think it has varied that much over the years) the split is 50/50 in terms of those within an hour of Glasgow and those outside. I've been to plenty of matches at Celtic Park where Motherwell, Hibs, Killie etc.. have brought bugger all fans despite CP being on their doorstep, however Aberdeen who have practically the furthest to travel would probably have the most decent away support (Perhaps Hearts excepted).

Aberdeen/Inverness would be in the top 3 away games for celtic fans to go to I'd guess.

I guess its possible attendances would be poorer for the smaller clubs but how far down could they go really?



Aberdeen, Inverness, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone, Ross County > 1hr from Glasgow

Hibs, Hearts, Killie, St Mirren, Motherwell < 1 hr from Glasgow

[Charlie Darwin]

Success? I said it makes the league half-way viable.

How many Motherwell fans do you expect to make the trek to Ireland for a game, compared to how many would be content to nip across for a game with St Mirren? It's a complete dreamland. An Irish-Scottish league might be viable with a big TV deal but in terms of crowds it would be mutally assured destruction. Even the largest distances fans have to travel in Scotland aren't much longer than a trip from Dublin to Galway.

Granted, those clubs don't have massive fanbases as you've noted and many still can't be arsed to make the trip, but nonetheless those attendances are what keep the league going in light of paltry TV money.

[Murfinator]

This is complete BS. Football is by far and away the biggest sport. The article is about thousands of folks who travel abroad to watch football. It has NOTHING to do with GAA, rugby or horse racing.



Except it isn't and TV figures are generally stronger for Rugby, Hurling and GAA matches. Was interesting a few months ago that an under 20 rugby game got more viewers than the Premiership on RTE, it'd be naive to say that the decline of soccer popularity in the past 10 years hasn't benefited Rugby in a big way in this country. Both internationals play in the same stadium and one has problems filling it, the other does not. Leinster, a club side can fill the Aviva better than the Republic of Ireland can which is the harsh reality. Times have changed.

[Charlie Darwin]

Who said anything about TV?

[Dodge]

Except it isn't and TV figures are generally stronger for Rugby, Hurling and GAA matches. Was interesting a few months ago that an under 20 rugby game got more viewers than the Premiership on RTE, it'd be naive to say that the decline of soccer popularity in the past 10 years hasn't benefited Rugby in a big way in this country. Both internationals play in the same stadium and one has problems filling it, the other does not. Leinster, a club side can fill the Aviva better than the Republic of Ireland can which is the harsh reality. Times have changed.

The irish rugby team may well have more people willing to pay to see it than the Irish football team. The under 20 rugby game may well have had more TV viewers than highlights of English football.

None of that changes the fact that football in this country is by and away the most popular sport. You can call me any names you liek but I'm not getting sucked into this debate again.

The problem with Irish football isn't a lack of people interested in the sport

[dong]

Good shout about the cup games and I agree that we would stand to gain more in the short term than the Scots, though it could be argued that the Scottish league is in rapid decline, so it might be as welcome for them as for us.

A major obstacle would be how the league would be drawn up. I would envision a league like the Magnier's League in rugby. However, I could see that being a source of contention. It might need clubs to amalgamete or regional clubs to be formed i.e a Dublin North team and a Dublin South team or a Sligo/Galway (Connaught team). I think this would be very painful for fans of such clubs in many ways, but it might be the best thing in the long run for them to thrive and for football in this country to grow.

No. Just no.

[Seagull]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/1023/1224325578421.html
200,000 people travelling spent €100 million supporting English premier League teams lsat year...

[tricky_colour]

That is absolutely crazy isn't it. If they were getting this money, it would mean that they could grow as a club, or at worst be able to stay off administration. Does the FAI get this money?


TV coverage is a double edged sword, on the one hand it gets publicity for the game but on the other hand fans may chose to watch
from the comfort and cheapness of home.
Certainly clubs at the very top level benefit from it but I am not sure about those outside that level.

[backstothewall]

TV coverage is a double edged sword, on the one hand it gets publicity for the game but on the other hand fans may chose to watch
from the comfort and cheapness of home.
Certainly clubs at the very top level benefit from it but I am not sure about those outside that level.

I've said all this before but here i go again...

To make TV coverage worthwhile it has to be good to create a favourable impression. To often it involves the victorious manager being interviewed on the pitch after the game, by a journalist struggling to hold onto a clipboard in the howling wind. No matter how good a game they've seen why on earth would someone watching from the comfort of their living room decide to go and see it live next week?

What rugby/gaa have done is put together an excellent product. Football hasn't managed it yet in my opinion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

This is complete BS. Football is by far and away the biggest sport. The article is about thousands of folks who travel abroad to watch football. It has NOTHING to do with GAA, rugby or horse racing.

Actually, you're wrong. Even if no-one went abroad, those 3 sports combined knock soccer into the long grass. Talking of which, you can add golf..
The fact that people participate in or pay to watch those diminishes the potential pool for soccer. It really is that simple.

[elroy]

Except it isn't and TV figures are generally stronger for Rugby, Hurling and GAA matches. Was interesting a few months ago that an under 20 rugby game got more viewers than the Premiership on RTE, it'd be naive to say that the decline of soccer popularity in the past 10 years hasn't benefited Rugby in a big way in this country. Both internationals play in the same stadium and one has problems filling it, the other does not. Leinster, a club side can fill the Aviva better than the Republic of Ireland can which is the harsh reality. Times have changed.

For some reason, you will find many Irish people will watch the EPL highlights on Sky or the Beeb over RTE. I would say its as high as one in every two people that watch the EPL highlights dont watch them on RTE.

Large scale interest in sports event depends on the product. Fact is the six nations is a very good product every second year (when England and France are in town). The years Scotland, Wales and Italy are in town, tickets are much more plentiful and the Italy game often doesnt sell out. Why?! The attraction/product is not as good.

The same happened in last years Autumn series and they are not likely to sell out this years series either.

Rugbys problem now is the power/draw of the provincial game is in danger of surpassing the national team. The product created by provinical rugby in a relatively short time is admirable and is based on success, but is not a model for football. Why? Well for one, rugby has never really had the problem of a massive league across the water taking significant Irish interest.

As for the Scotland/Irish league model, again many draw conclusions from rugby which for the above reason I dont think is accurate or comparable. Also, ask yourself the question, if you were Scottish is there really anything to gain from their end?? im not so sure.

[Dodge]

Actually, you're wrong. Even if no-one went abroad, those 3 sports combined knock soccer into the long grass. Talking of which, you can add golf..
The fact that people participate in or pay to watch those diminishes the potential pool for soccer. It really is that simple.

Latest figures 9admittedly 4 years old. but unlikely to cahnge too drastically);
http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Research/Ballpark_Figures_2008_/Ballpark_Figures.pdf

More people play football than gaelic sports and rugby combined.

Ireland v france is the highest watched sporting even of the last 15 years;
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2009/1119/257577-ireland_rte/

I used to work in sports merchandise, football kits vastly outsell all other sports combined.

Every country in the world has competeing sports. The problem for Irish football isn't a lack of people interested in football.