Read it and weep....Trap stays! [Archive] - Page 4

Charlie Darwin

19/10/2012, 1:59 PM

For what it's worth I'd tend to trust Andrews even despite his obvious reasons to support Trap. He could endorse Trap in other ways and he actually goes out of his way to negate any talk of a lost dressing room, when he could easily just come out with stuff like the players let the gaffer down.

But not losing the dressing room isn't the same thing as having the backing of all the dressing room. I'd be surprised if he does.

Also, let's not forget that the "dressing room" includes people like Green when fit and doesn't include Gibson right now.
I'd trust Andrews to deliver my future children. I think, possibly, there is a disconnect between the senior pros and the younger players and the older guys may not realise how much discontent there is among the talented youngsters. That said, even McClean was whipped into line fairly quickly.

CraftyToePoke

19/10/2012, 2:08 PM

Trap picks the team, its what we pay him for.

Grand, until he starts making such a mess of it and we start geting absolute hammerings, repeatedly. He changed it, under duress, and we won 4-1. But do I trust him to hold the correct course and heal the divide he created, sadly, and I do mean sadly, no I do not. I think we have just forestalled the inevitable messy fallout but maybe saved a few quid. Key also, is the breathing space this gives Delaney to navigate a path out of it for himself.

DannyInvincible

19/10/2012, 2:13 PM

The dressing room is a packed deck.
It's a moot point speculating whether Trap has the backing of the players he picks. The evidence of the whole package is there to be seen on the pitch. Trap is like a tragic Don Quixote figure out to revive a redundant type of football and bound tight by the rules of that game. Tardelli in the Sancho role of course.

I think it's something worth attaining clarification on since some fans and figures within the media are unfairly using it as a brush with which to beat Trap. If Trap had actually lost the dressing room, the situation would certainly be much worse than it is. As it is, he hasn't lost the dressing room and the situation is what it is; not as bad as it being made out by some.

Junior

19/10/2012, 2:24 PM

Grand, until he starts making such a mess of it and we start geting absolute hammerings, repeatedly. He changed it, under duress, and we won 4-1. But do I trust him to hold the correct course and heal the divide he created, sadly, and I do mean sadly, no I do not. I think we have just forestalled the inevitable messy fallout but maybe saved a few quid. Key also, is the breathing space this gives Delaney to navigate a path out of it for himself.

Out of the FAI? or Out of the 'I Hired Trap, gave him a new contract, didnt fire him against popular opinion' problem?

If it was the former, then I'd be doubly pleased with the outcome of the last week.

The change 'under duress' - When has Trap folded under duress? He doesnt, isnt that what annoys a lot of you on here? He doesnt give a fcuk what the man in the street opinion is - All power to him I say.

The 4-1 victory - When hasnt he got a victory away against the lower seeds since he's been in charge? No thats right, it was business as usual.

CraftyToePoke

19/10/2012, 2:37 PM

Out of the FAI? or Out of the 'I Hired Trap, gave him a new contract, didnt fire him against popular opinion' problem?

If it was the former, then I'd be doubly pleased with the outcome of the last week.

The change 'under duress' - When has Trap folded under duress? He doesnt, isnt that what annoys a lot of you on here? He doesnt give a fcuk what the man in the street opinion is - All power to him I say.

The 4-1 victory - When hasnt he got a victory away against the lower seeds since he's been in charge? No thats right, it was business as usual.

It was a financial bomb ticking away under his ass and it has been fudged, stalled for a time when it will be less expensive. You know this as well as I do.

I didn't say he folded under duress did I ? I said he changed it. And a player, not any old player, a full back he has ignored for God knows how long, slams one on the top corner from outside the box (only rub with that for Trap was it required said full back being out of his own half)

All power to him indeed, right up to the point we are repeatedly embarrassed while ignoring ways to improve either because he wont look at those options through misguided arrogance of a fine career or because he cant be bothered to anymore, and was on the precipice before he would even consider such avenues.

Junior

19/10/2012, 2:58 PM

It was a financial bomb ticking away under his ass and it has been fudged, stalled for a time when it will be less expensive. You know this as well as I do.

It was a genuine clarification I was seeking. Yes of course I know the Trap Contract(s) are something JD is responsible for and something financially the FAI cannot get out of (on their own), I just wasnt sure whether you think JD thinks he can still steer this ship with or without Trap or you were implying he might be looking for a get out himself. You've cleared it up.

I didn't say he folded under duress did I ? I said he changed it. And a player, not any old player, a full back he has ignored for God knows how long, slams one on the top corner from outside the box (only rub with that for Trap was it required said full back being out of his own half)

Semantics - He changed under duress / He folded under duress. Great goal from Wilson I agree, who didnt perform all that great on the night. Just as well O'Dea covered his ass on occasion whilst chipping in with a goal himself! - Okay playing Devils advocate a bit here, but Wilson playing wasnt what got us a result on the night (I know you havent said that explicitly) but Trap has proven to get results in these places time and again.

All power to him indeed, right up to the point we are repeatedly embarrassed while ignoring ways to improve either because he wont look at those options through misguided arrogance of a fine career or because he cant be bothered to anymore, and was on the precipice before he would even consider such avenues.

I think Stutts said it elsewhere, the FAI, the Media, We, are all within our rights to ask Trap 'to pull up his socks a bit' fair enough, of course there are improvements to be made, the best manager in the world can always look to improve. I think we are in a better position today than if we had sacked Trap on Wednesday - certainly for the rest of this campaign, which is where I think it should probably end.

paul_oshea

19/10/2012, 3:58 PM

CraftyToePoke

19/10/2012, 4:06 PM

All power to the dictator. The belarussian president or the kazakh president don't listen to the man on the street either.

The beatings will continue until the morale of the men improves eh Paul ? Until there are smiles everywhere.

Junior

19/10/2012, 4:10 PM

All power to the dictator. The belarussian president or the kazakh president don't listen to the man on the street either.

Haha add Fergie and Mourhino to yer list as well.

Junior

19/10/2012, 4:12 PM

I was referring to his thing about keane and doyle. I just take it that the english lads probably get on better with the dubs and the country lads would stick together!! I wasn't on about Trap! Doyler comes across as your typical unassuming country lad, the complete opposite of Keane really. long the same and i'm sure o'shea and the rest are too. I reckon dunnes parents are from the country :D joking!

So the dressing room is lost because the players dont get on with one another? You've lost me, it wouldnt be the first time though in all fairness.:D

geysir

19/10/2012, 5:00 PM

I think it's something worth attaining clarification on since some fans and figures within the media are unfairly using it as a brush with which to beat Trap. If Trap had actually lost the dressing room, the situation would certainly be much worse than it is. As it is, he hasn't lost the dressing room and the situation is what it is; not as bad as it being made out by some.
Okay, I'll sleep easy in the knowledge that as bad and all as things actually look now with our team of happy hoofers, it could be worse with a lost dressing room or even one with Paul Jewell :)

p2011

20/10/2012, 9:03 AM

you have to look at his overall Ireland record compared to the players at his disposal while also considering if any other manager available to us would actually do much better. and yes, results are important and yes qualifying is important.

If all that is true then maybe you could answer my original question:
Name me a satisfactory competitive result with any sort of acceptable performance against decent opposition (not Estonia or Faroes or Armenia) in the last 3 years since Paris?

Stuttgart88

20/10/2012, 9:32 AM

Fascinating stuff in today's Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1020/1224325507692.html

and Examiner

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/a-week-of-living-dangerously-211468.html

Spud, as our professional meeja watcher, what do you think?

geysir

20/10/2012, 10:34 AM

It's hardly a resounding vote of confidence from the FAI in the manager, 'we would get rid of you for sure but we found out we can't afford to'.
I wonder if O'Brien had something to say there to influence the board's decision, something like 'if you keep Trap - I'll stick to my sponsorship promise 100% but if you let him go, you can't expect me to pay 50% of the settlement'.

Crosby87

20/10/2012, 1:59 PM

The funny thing is, if we do somehow make the world cup everyone will want him to stay on for the next Euros.

DannyInvincible

20/10/2012, 2:04 PM

The funny thing is, if we do somehow make the world cup everyone will want him to stay on for the next Euros.

Well, if he pulled it out of the bag, that would make sense, but based on recent form, we'll be nowhere near the World Cup. That's why people have been getting worried about his management and have been desiring change by some means or another; be that by placing a new manager in charge or through a change of strategy/modus operandi by Trap.

CraftyToePoke

20/10/2012, 2:35 PM

The funny thing is, if we do somehow make the world cup everyone will want him to stay on for the next Euros.

Well, as you say Crosby, it would be a case of funny old game, stranger things have happened, sick as a parrot and indeed over the moon too.

Will we make the world cup though ? Or will we take one or maybe two points from Austria & Sweden home and away combined. Who knows. At least its interesting.

SkStu

20/10/2012, 2:56 PM

Look, we should start forgetting about qualifying for Brazil no matter who's in charge. Instead of checking out trannies in Rio in 2014, we'll have to dream of drinking yak milk in Yekaterinburg in 2018...

Junior

20/10/2012, 6:48 PM

Give over. Lets play the double header in March and then evaluate our chances. Runners up spot is still in our own hands. Sweden obviously are in a favourable position but look inconsistent, I'm giving up on fcukall this early in to the campaign.

bishbash

20/10/2012, 11:45 PM

So 4 years into his reign the FAI suggest that maybe the manager of the football team goes and watches the players that available to him. Anyone else see anything slightly unusual in this?

Roberto

25/10/2012, 8:01 AM

Okay, I'll sleep easy in the knowledge that as bad and all as things actually look now with our team of happy hoofers, it could be worse with a lost dressing room or even one with Paul Jewell :)

It might be worth pointing out that not too long ago John Giles and Eamon Dunphy were putting Paul Jewell's name forward as manager for Ireland. In fact John Giles actually approached Jewell and 'sounded him out'. Jewell was at the time on a break from football and since his return to the game he has suffered relegation with Derby and has now left Ipswich who currently lie bottom of the Championship. So be careful what/who you ask for as even our so called 'experts' can get things badly wrong!

paul_oshea

25/10/2012, 8:27 AM

What annoys me on the panel is no one brings these things back up or points these things out to dunphy or even giles. Bill just goes along like dumbo the elephant, he should be sticking these questions to them and holding them to ransom on them.

geysir

25/10/2012, 8:40 AM

Dumbo? leave Dumbo out of it. Dumbo is a classic.

pineapple stu

26/10/2012, 12:47 PM

peadar1987

26/10/2012, 1:26 PM

So 4 years into his reign the FAI suggest that maybe the manager of the football team goes and watches the players that available to him. Anyone else see anything slightly unusual in this?

Could he not do this equally well from Italy, watching recorded matches with the option of multiple camera angles, replay, and slow-motion functions?

the bear

26/10/2012, 1:44 PM

Could he not do this equally well from Italy, watching recorded matches with the option of multiple camera angles, replay, and slow-motion functions?

You see a lot of things watching a player play in front of you that you wouldn't see on telly.

No substitute for face to face contact with players in my opinion, can't understand his continued use of text messages.

SkStu

26/10/2012, 5:34 PM

Not entirely sure you know where Yekaterinburg is...

Russia.

pineapple stu

26/10/2012, 5:42 PM

Well, that's a start.

Wouldn't be the biggest yak-milk drinking area is all.

Nice enough city actually. If we get to play there, the London pub closes for seven hours a week. :)

SkStu

26/10/2012, 9:22 PM

Well, that's a start.

Wouldn't be the biggest yak-milk drinking area is all.

Nice enough city actually. If we get to play there, the London pub closes for seven hours a week. :)

:) Sorry Stu, my knowledge on areas of interior Russia most partial to Yak milk drinking is not what it used to be... :)

Did you visit there on your recent escapades? When it was announced as a venue for 2018 it was one of those weird places id never heard of that piqued my interest... we should plan to meet there and yack up after a couple of Yak vodkas if we qualify!

pineapple stu

26/10/2012, 9:42 PM

Yeah, I was there for about 12 hours. Arrived at 6am, left at 6pm. Just a stop-over on the train. Was -16 when I arrived towards the end of March!

It's ok; fairly modern, western city (which is mainly why I was having a laugh at your suggestion that it was a place of nomads sitting around drinking yak milk outside their tents). Not a massive amount for the tourist to do there - the Romanovs were shot there, and a church was built on the site later; there's a giant keyboard and a few miles outside of town is a monument indicating the border of Europe and Asia. The London pub though is open from 7am till 6am five days a week, doesn't close at all on Saturday and shuts for two hours on Sundays, which will fill the gap nicely! The lounge staff are all dressed in the traditional English dress of suggestive school uniforms. :)

DannyInvincible

27/12/2012, 9:29 AM

Just came across this story: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/ireland-coach-trapattoni-reveals-roma-talks-3712781#.UNwgWW_symN

Republic of Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni admits he came close to joining AS Roma last year.

Trapattoni revealed “Roma wanted me as their Coach 18 months ago,” when Luis Enrique was still on the bench.

“Around 18 months ago I was contacted by Roma and they wanted me as their Coach,” 73-year-old Trap told Radio Man� Man� Sport.

“It wasn’t the first time I had been close to the Giallorossi, but the negotiations did not end with a positive outcome.

“In all honesty, it disappointed me a little, because Roma are a great club with passionate fans.”

18 months ago would have been around the time of the Nations Cup games against NI/Scotland and our away Euro 2012 qualifier against Macedonia.

Charlie Darwin

27/12/2012, 12:58 PM

Wow, that's something else.

nigel-harps1954

27/12/2012, 2:35 PM

Because he's probably getting 3 times the wages here.

Charlie Darwin

27/12/2012, 2:40 PM

I'd be fairly confident a Serie A club would pay more than Ireland, particularly for someone of Trap's experience.

Colbert Report

27/12/2012, 9:56 PM

He's not up for a full time job, health wise. He can make the same money here working six or seven weeks a year.

Crosby87

27/12/2012, 11:45 PM

why would he come out and say that. go, dont go. Whatever.

dong

28/12/2012, 5:01 PM

He's seriously childish in a lot of ways. The point seems to be "count your blessings Ireland, there was a big Italian club interested in me".
Then again, a lot of managers who have operated at the highest level are the same. Ferguson, Mourinho etc

the doc

28/12/2012, 6:07 PM

We are lucky to have a manager such as Mr Trapattoni.

Where else are we going to get someone that good and experienced?

In Trap we must trust!

Supreme feet

29/12/2012, 2:55 AM

We are lucky to have a manager such as Mr Trapattoni.

Where else are we going to get someone that good and experienced?

In Trap we must trust!

Trap took over Stuttgart in 05-06, when they were one of the top Bundesliga teams. They sunk down the table with Trap in charge, and he got sacked half-way through the season. His style of play did not fit the players at the club. Armin Veh took over, and the following season, they won the Bundesliga.

Trap has a great pedigree, but his style is too rigid to be successful with every team he manages. Like with Stuttgart, he clearly doesn't know how to get the best out of the resources available to the Irish team at the moment. I wonder if Armin Veh could be swayed from Eintracht Frankfurt? I'd like to see a Dutch or German manager take over after Trap, to hell with British managers.

Spudulika

29/12/2012, 11:55 AM

Trap took over Stuttgart in 05-06, when they were one of the top Bundesliga teams. They sunk down the table with Trap in charge, and he got sacked half-way through the season. His style of play did not fit the players at the club. Armin Veh took over, and the following season, they won the Bundesliga.

Trap has a great pedigree, but his style is too rigid to be successful with every team he manages. Like with Stuttgart, he clearly doesn't know how to get the best out of the resources available to the Irish team at the moment. I wonder if Armin Veh could be swayed from Eintracht Frankfurt? I'd like to see a Dutch or German manager take over after Trap, to hell with British managers.

Veh wouldn't take the drop in wages to come to Ireland, no sane person would want to manage Ireland. All they have to do is see how the umbilical cord has been strengthened to the mother country and they'd run a mile. Eintracht are going great guns this year because they're throwing money at players and doing well, much as I love them, they'll probably drop off the pace in March and struggle for a Europa League spot.

A Dutch or German coach would only work if there was the work done lower down the ranks. And that the coaches of the underage teams buy into the same philosophy, in Ireland, how likely is that?

Charlie Darwin

29/12/2012, 12:37 PM

A Dutch or German coach would only work if there was the work done lower down the ranks. And that the coaches of the underage teams buy into the same philosophy, in Ireland, how likely is that?
It's already happened. Every underage side plays progressive football using the same adaptable system. The only outlier is Trapattoni.

NeverFeltBetter

29/12/2012, 1:10 PM

Has Trapattoni actually been over to England to see games in the last while? Didn't he say he would, or did I imagine that?

DannyInvincible

29/12/2012, 4:01 PM

It was reported that he attended one or two Norwich games, I think. Not sure if he's been to any others.

Spudulika

29/12/2012, 4:11 PM

It's already happened. Every underage side plays progressive football using the same adaptable system. The only outlier is Trapattoni.

Will this continue without the technical director? How long will it continue before the usual self-collapse comes in irish football? When the young players come through in abundance Trap won't be there, we're 20 years away from a consistent senior side.

tetsujin1979

29/12/2012, 5:23 PM

It was reported that he attended one or two Norwich games, I think. Not sure if he's been to any others.
Clark said he came to see him at one of the Villa games

OwlsFan

29/12/2012, 5:44 PM

Clark said he came to see him at one of the Villa games

Hopefully not any of the last three!

elroy

29/12/2012, 10:05 PM

One of the few Irish sportswriters that I respect, Liam Mackey had a piece in the Examiner over Christmas - well it was really was of an end of year sporting piece with the other sports journalists from the paper. Liam's view was that Trap has performed a very good job with a limited Irish team. The Euros aside, he has performed very well, almost qualifying in his first campaign and delivering on qualification the second time around. This campaign has been relatively disappointing but results wise, we are where most would have expected.