Limerick, first division champions

[bluewhitearmy]

I guess we'll just move forward on the assumption that the guy isn't going to pull out mid-season?


Na we may as well pack it in now because obviously since it has happened to others its definitely going to happen to us.

[Lim till i die]

... and if its mid-season those foundations you speak of could well be gone.

The schoolboy set up and a big, massive, stadium would disappear if Pat O'Sullivan pulled out mid season??

Is there anything on earth to suggest he'd pull out mid season??

Or to suggest that such a pull out would close the club mid season?? (it wouldn't because of the club structure fwiw)

"could well"

I'm starting to feel a bit dirty for engaging again. :ball:

[Lim till i die]

Look this isn't the thread for debating idle speculation with people who are purely guessing.

It's a thread for Limerick getting into the Premier the division.

I'll tell you what this time next year we'll set up an "I told you so" thread where people can stick their tongue out at me or I can stick my tongue out at them, depending on whats gone on in the meantime.

Fair Enough?? :good:

[Lim till i die]

Also, for the record, I'm really looking forward to my trips to The Showgrounds (we're guaranteed to get two away fixtures against all the big clubs)

Lee Jays relations do be telling me about the setup at the ground and I like what they've done with the town up there.

Stay in the Riverside Suites on the cheap, get locked in that really dark nightclub, you just don't get that kind of thing away to Wexford. :ball:

[redobit]

Fair enough LTID, sure ye can buy me a pint. Not trying to p*ss on your parade btw. Well done on winning the FD title.

[cornflakes]

Stay in the Riverside Suites on the cheap, get locked in that really dark nightclub, you just don't get that kind of thing away to Wexford. :ball:

Ah here!! Theres a Riverside Hotel in Enniscorthy and some really dark night clubs all over Wexford. You just didn't make the best of the trip!

[sadloserkid]

Ah here!! Theres a Riverside Hotel in Enniscorthy and some really dark night clubs all over Wexford. You just didn't make the best of the trip!

Dark football pitches and all in Wexford. :D

[nigel-harps1954]

Last time I stayed overnight in Wexford we never left the pub next to the hotel. Didn't get as far as the town centre.

[bullit]

Have Lims a trust/friends committee? Always good to have a watchdog

[Mr A]

Most clubs are dependent on a frighteningly small core of people to keep the show on the road. Limerick may be a bit more extreme than many of the rest, but the vast majority of us are on the same tightrope.

[Dodge]

foundations dont pay wages
It's paying wages instead if building foundations that has most LOI clubs in the ****

As Mr A, and others, have pointed out no club can afford to be preachy about how it does business

[CrowdedHouse]

Congrats and Well done to Limerick FC

Don't forget I was there with ye in Fahy's Field back in March

[redobit]

It's paying wages instead if building foundations that has most LOI clubs in the ****

As Mr A, and others, have pointed out no club can afford to be preachy about how it does business

Are limerick in even greater peril if the one person has to pay on two fronts so!!!

I dont think anyone is being preachy. More of a 'where have seen this before' opinion.

[horton]

Limerick have yet to kick a ball in a PD match, and we can already see how the s**t is gonna hit the fan on them? they've really made it up to the big league:D

[Dodge]

Are limerick in even greater peril if the one person has to pay on two fronts so!!!

I dont think anyone is being preachy. More of a 'where have seen this before' opinion.

You haven't seen 'this' before, because you can't even be sure what 'this' is...

if Limerick balls it up, then thats their problem. Until then...

[redobit]

You haven't seen 'this' before, because you can't even be sure what 'this' is...

if Limerick balls it up, then thats their problem. Until then...

... an Irish business man pumping money into a LOI team!

As for the 'Until then... ' bit. You sound like youre expecting it to happen?

[A face]

A stadium and a schoolboy set up. These are tangible, there for the future things.

If a training complex is delivered on we're more or less set for forever.

Even when Pat pulls out and we go bust there's foundations there to fall back on.

Who owns them and who owns the club?

[Jofspring]

... an Irish business man pumping money into a LOI team!

As for the 'Until then... ' bit. You sound like youre expecting it to happen?

An Irish business man pumping money into a club as a whole.....a first team, under 19's, academy from under 4's right up to 13's, a ground, training facilities, community projects etc....

That to best of my knowledge has never been done before with regards to Irish business men and LOI clubs and is were there is a difference.

[Jofspring]

Who owns them and who owns the club?

Pat is the majority stake holder and the LEDP own the Markets field.

[Dodge]

... an Irish business man pumping money into a LOI team!
Most Irish businessmen who have put money into LOI clubs have done so with the best of intentions and without seeking any return. The league NEEDS businessmen to invest. You've no clue about O'Sullivan's intentions, that was my points


As for the 'Until then... ' bit. You sound like youre expecting it to happen?
Nope. Merely saying that if it happens you can say what you like, but until then idle speculation is pointless

[bluewhitearmy]

... an Irish business man pumping money into a LOI team!

As for the 'Until then... ' bit. You sound like youre expecting it to happen?


What if we get one of those independent reviews of our finances like Sligo got to calm fears? Could Rovers fans sort that our for us like they did for them?

[redobit]

Good to see he is building from the bottom up Jofspring. It could be a very worth while project.

In fairness Dodge I would have thought O'Sullivans intentions were fairly clear.

I suppose like any business ventre it will come down to a couple of things. The willingless to see the project through and more importantly the depth of the developers pockets. If Pat has both, then Limerick could become a real force in the long term. We wait and see...

[Jofspring]

Good to see he is building from the bottom up Jofspring. It could be a very worth while project.

In fairness Dodge I would have thought O'Sullivans intentions were fairly clear.

I suppose like any business ventre it will come down to a couple of things. The willingless to see the project through and more importantly the depth of the developers pockets. If Pat has both, then Limerick could become a real force in the long term. We wait and see...

In today's local Pat says he will not be splashing the cash next season on players as he feels we have a strong enough squad to play football in the premier. He mentions players will only come in if they have something really special to offer and any aditional sponsorhip money and support that comes in will not be blown on players. He also says we don't want to end up like the last 4 clubs that have gone out of existence.

[thomas72]

We need to strengthen our back line especially centre half position we are very weak with zero pace a winger and a striker needed aswell.

[Jofspring]

We need to strengthen our back line especially centre half position we are very weak with zero pace a winger and a striker needed aswell.

Ya we definitely need a few new faces I just don't think there will be an overhaul like some people would expect with an owner pumping money into a club.

As far as pace is concerned we seem to have some very good 19's and I'd like to see them get there chance.

[A face]

Pat is the majority stake holder

Who owns the rest? Do the fans own a share?


the LEDP own the Markets field.

LEDP as in Limerick Enterprise Development Partnership (http://www.ledp.ie/), so what ever is developed will be theirs? Will the club have to pay rent to LEDP for use of the facility?

[El-Pietro]

An Irish business man pumping money into a club as a whole.....a first team, under 19's, academy from under 4's right up to 13's, a ground, training facilities, community projects etc....

That to best of my knowledge has never been done before with regards to Irish business men and LOI clubs and is were there is a difference.

Spingal had all sorts of teams, deaf teams, blind teams, womens, underage, they had loads going on, until they didnt.

[A face]

An Irish business man pumping money into a club as a whole.....a first team, under 19's, academy from under 4's right up to 13's, a ground, training facilities, community projects etc....

That to best of my knowledge has never been done before with regards to Irish business men and LOI clubs and is were there is a difference.


a private equity fund that invest principally in the healthcare, technology, property, media and leisure sectors. They are also engaged in stocks and real estate. They have offices in Jersey, London and Dublin.
(http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/who-are-the-owners-of-cork-city-1456244.html)
How does that sound? Fairly reputable company there you would think. And all the above was promised as well ....


Hey if it happens then brilliant, until it happens, then exploit the good vibe around Limerick and form a supporters trust for yourselves.

[Jofspring]

Who owns the rest? Do the fans own a share?



LEDP as in Limerick Enterprise Development Partnership (http://www.ledp.ie/), so what ever is developed will be theirs? Will the club have to pay rent to LEDP for use of the facility?

Pat may even own 100%of the club, I wouldn't know the specific details to be honest.

Ya that's the LEDP. JP is the one behind them. One of the reasons it was bought in their name is so down the line the club cannot use the ground towards wages etc... And run up debt against it. As far as I know the club will be paying rent, whether that is a minimal charge I don't know.

The markets field is to be used for other codes too and not just soccer. We will basically be the anchor tenants if you will.

[Jofspring]

Spingal had all sorts of teams, deaf teams, blind teams, womens, underage, they had loads going on, until they didnt.

Fingal still have a special Olympics team.

http://www.limerickfc.ie/special-olympics-limerick-fc-v-sporting-fingal-fc

Fingal were always dodgy though, no past history, little support, going up against some historic clubs in Dublin for fans, pumping ridiculous money in wages to a whole squad of top LOI players and to top it off they were relying on a property developer that despite getting in trouble himself financially still kept pumping money he didn't have into the first team. They didn't try build a club, they tried to build a franchise over night by throwing money at it in the hope of instant success.

If we finish anywhere near mid table next season with averages near 1,500 fans I will see that as good progression and something to continue building on.

[NeverFeltBetter]

.
(http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/who-are-the-owners-of-cork-city-1456244.html)
How does that sound? Fairly reputable company there you would think. And all the above was promised as well ....


Hey if it happens then brilliant, until it happens, then exploit the good vibe around Limerick and form a supporters trust for yourselves.

If? Most of the stuff mentioned by Jobspring has happened.

[El-Pietro]

If we finish anywhere near mid table next season with averages near 1,500 fans I will see that as good progression and something to continue building on.
I'd say 1500 is a bit much if ye are only mid table, and mid table is a bit much if Scully is your manager given his record against remotely decent football teams.

Mid table involves losing/drawing a lot of games, (its not remotely fun, though I'm sure after that last couple of decades that is something your hardcore are more than comfortable) and the passing fan isn't interested in a team that isn't winning regularly.

Secondly, while Mr. O'Sullivan talks a good game and sounds confident I still don't see ye playing in Markets Field anywhere near the start of the season. Too much slippage in terms of dates it will be ready, ye were to be in there for the start of this season, then oh we can wait til next year cos we're in the first maybe even have it ready for the end of this season, and here we are in October and planning still hasn't been submitted. Someone mentioned that the fact that it hasn't been submitted yet means if no one complains ye still wouldn't make the start of the season and you can guarantee someone will. My money is on the closest GAA team.

So assuming you start the season in Jackman park thats one opportunity lost in terms of winning over new fans, something for the locals to get excited about (look at Tallaght for a good example, though most likely on a different scale). On top of that while Premier Division teams will bring you more of an away crowd they don't bring massive numbers on a regular basis. You will get some who willbe interested in seeing a new ground, again that would be multiplied for Markets Field. many fans will not want to visit Jackman, because its horrible. Shamrock Rovers fans kicked up a fuss over teh facilities in Turners Cross and while they had some legitmate concerns I think its safe to say Turners Cross offers a better experience for the away fan than Jackman Park.

You will get increased home crowds for the likes of Shamrock Rovers and possibly Sligo as champions, but many teams won't bring hundreds upon hundreds to Limerick. Shamrock Rovers always travel well, but no one else generally bring more than a couple of hundred fans to Cork, Sligo last week excepted, though they brought about 30 for the previous game when they weren't looking like absolute certs for the league.

1500 would put you ahead of (mid table) Derry, Bohs, Shels and title challenging Pats. In a championship season your average is 677, Shels in a similar but more exciting season last year reached 781 last year and are now only at 1200, in a much better stadium than Jackman Park. They also, you'd imagine do well as so many clubs don't have so far to travel to get to Tolka, something our clubs don't benefit from.

Get into Markets field and I'd revise my prediction, but I'd be surprised if ye top 1100 next season. I actually think I'm being overly optimistic there. Play the full season in Jackman and I'd say 900.

[Lim till i die]

Who owns them and who owns the club?

The schoolboy/academy section is self sufficient and nothing to do with the senior team per se.

The ground was bought in trust by JP McManus for the use of Limerick senior football. Which is fairly common knowledge tbh.


a private equity fund that invest principally in the healthcare, technology, property, media and leisure sectors. They are also engaged in stocks and real estate. They have offices in Jersey, London and Dublin

How does that sound? Fairly reputable company there you would think. And all the above was promised as well ....


LOL, wut?!

[Lim till i die]

Someone mentioned that the fact that it hasn't been submitted yet means if no one complains ye still wouldn't make the start of the season and you can guarantee someone will. My money is on the closest GAA team.

And here, in a nutshell, is everyones concerns.

A man who thinks the closest GAA team (who play over the hills and far away from the Markets Field fwiw) are going to object to the JPDome.

Absolutely clueless. And I genuinely mean no offence there, how could you be expected to half a clue, you're not from Limerick, you're just idly speculating on an internet forum.

Like all the other idle speculators in here.

If Limerick aren't in in March it'll be because the plans have changed.

On the crowds next season, I'd be well pleased with a 900 average.

[Dodge]

BTW Fingal aren't the worst case scenario for anything. They left without owing a penny to any creditors (inc players etc)

All they were missing was a fanbase. Something limerick teams should be OK with

[Jofspring]

I'd say 1500 is a bit much if ye are only mid table, and mid table is a bit much if Scully is your manager given his record against remotely decent football teams.

Mid table involves losing/drawing a lot of games, (its not remotely fun, though I'm sure after that last couple of decades that is something your hardcore are more than comfortable) and the passing fan isn't interested in a team that isn't winning regularly.

Fair enough 1,500 may be a little bit optimistic but never underestimate the Limerick bandwagon. We averaged 677 in a division with pretty much no traveling support, despite winning the league we were brutal in the majority of games at home and the the opposition was nowhere the calibre of whats in the premier but people still managed to come out.


Secondly, while Mr. O'Sullivan talks a good game and sounds confident I still don't see ye playing in Markets Field anywhere near the start of the season. Too much slippage in terms of dates it will be ready, ye were to be in there for the start of this season, then oh we can wait til next year cos we're in the first maybe even have it ready for the end of this season, and here we are in October and planning still hasn't been submitted. Someone mentioned that the fact that it hasn't been submitted yet means if no one complains ye still wouldn't make the start of the season and you can guarantee someone will. My money is on the closest GAA team.

That's pretty much exactly what I said in the Markets Field thread in our own section.


So assuming you start the season in Jackman park thats one opportunity lost in terms of winning over new fans, something for the locals to get excited about (look at Tallaght for a good example, though most likely on a different scale). On top of that while Premier Division teams will bring you more of an away crowd they don't bring massive numbers on a regular basis. You will get some who willbe interested in seeing a new ground, again that would be multiplied for Markets Field. many fans will not want to visit Jackman, because its horrible. Shamrock Rovers fans kicked up a fuss over teh facilities in Turners Cross and while they had some legitmate concerns I think its safe to say Turners Cross offers a better experience for the away fan than Jackman Park.

I don't think any Limerick FC fan would disagree with you there.


Play the full season in Jackman and I'd say 900.

Play the full season in Jackman and I would definitely say around 900 average maximum.

[Lim till i die]

BTW Fingal aren't the worst case scenario for anything. They left without owing a penny to any creditors (inc players etc)

I knew there was some correlation between a new team in a new area and a team from a city which has put a League Of Ireland team on the field for the last 75 unbroken years.

There simply had to be when everyone kept comparing them.

It turns out the answer is not running up debts.

Thanks Dodge.

[A face]

LOL, wut?!

Just saying that we believed everything that Arkaga said as well at the start, they were an invertment companies who's portfoilo was mainly health industry and education. It was all good news, and they were spending money.

The best thing our club has ever done was start a supporters trust.

[Dodge]

Just saying that we believed everything that Arkaga said as well at the start, they were an invertment companies who's portfoilo was mainly health industry and education. It was all good news, and they were spending money.

Not everyone is as thick as Cork fans... ;)

[Sam_Heggy]

Negative Comment

[cheifo]

I'll raise your negative comment with a concerned, slightly patronising "Have you thought this through properly" comment with a well done at the end.

[bluewhitearmy]

Negative Comment


Sarcastic reply.

[nigel-harps1954]

Fair enough 1,500 may be a little bit optimistic but never underestimate the Limerick bandwagon. We averaged 677 in a division with pretty much no traveling support, despite winning the league we were brutal in the majority of games at home and the the opposition was nowhere the calibre of whats in the premier but people still managed to come out.
.

Ahem.


Sarcastic reply.

Not surprised at all to be honest.

[redobit]

If Limerick aren't in in March it'll be because the plans have changed.



The planning process could easily hold ye up. The absolute minimum from when the application is made until work can begin on site is 14 weeks (say mid january, inc. for xmass holidays). That would mean approx. 2 months to get the work completed prior to season starting start of March.
And if youre puting it out to tender straight after planning (assuming its ready to go out) it could be another month before a contractor is on site. Not to mention you need to get your Fire Cert and Disability Cert sorted while planning application is in (takes min. 8 weeks plus how ever long for the Engineers to do it).

It could be very tight time wise and thats barring no Planners futher Information or objections but if youre well prepared its possible.

[Mr A]

Sarcastic reply.

Fails to see the sarcasm, goes on a massive rant.

[El-Pietro]

And here, in a nutshell, is everyones concerns.

A man who thinks the closest GAA team (who play over the hills and far away from the Markets Field fwiw) are going to object to the JPDome.

Absolutely clueless. And I genuinely mean no offence there, how could you be expected to half a clue, you're not from Limerick, you're just idly speculating on an internet forum.

Like all the other idle speculators in here.

If Limerick aren't in in March it'll be because the plans have changed.

On the crowds next season, I'd be well pleased with a 900 average.

people object. someone with too much time on their hands will definitely object, i dont know where mf is, all i know of limerick is ul and jackman, but banking on a gaa club complaining is safe enough, they dont care for the loi in general and dont like to see any loi club make progress

but even if they dont, someone else will and even jp mcmanus cant stop that (nor should he be able to)

[Longfordian]

There's an architect in Longford who spends his time perusing planning applications all over the country and objecting to them. Speculation is rife as to whether he does it in the hope that someone will make it worth his while to go away or whether he just likes to prove he knows more about the planning laws than anyone else. On one infamous occasion a developer paid him to do the initial plans to try and ensure he couldn't object. He didn't object, but his wife did. To give him his due he's rarely completely defeated. A recent example is his objection to the rebuilding of the cathedral in Longford, a move that made him about as popular as Mr Burns when he blocked out the sun. Moral of the story, as said above, there's always one.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The GAA doesn't have a a totally stellar following in the city though, from my observation, most of the clubs in that area are pretty small fry compared to the clubs in the county. Na Piarsaigh got a lot of attention this year, but they're on the other side of the river.

In all of the Market's Field saga, the only objections put forth were from city Councillors who wanted community halls or something included in the plans.

[KevB76]

There's an architect in Longford who spends his time perusing planning applications all over the country and objecting to them. Speculation is rife as to whether he does it in the hope that someone will make it worth his while to go away or whether he just likes to prove he knows more about the planning laws than anyone else. On one infamous occasion a developer paid him to do the initial plans to try and ensure he couldn't object. He didn't object, but his wife did. To give him his due he's rarely completely defeated. A recent example is his objection to the rebuilding of the cathedral in Longford, a move that made him about as popular as Mr Burns when he blocked out the sun. Moral of the story, as said above, there's always one.

How in gods name did ye end up with so many ghost estates in Longford after all this chaps efforts!?!

[thomas72]

Local paper (the post) saying a major announcement is expected on the coming days that crunch meeting took place last week and this week and an announcement Will be made after that.