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View Full Version : Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q



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Charlie Darwin
26/09/2012, 2:18 AM
Trap is set to name the squad later today. Little snippet from the Irish Times report:


The Italian is expected to name all of his regulars including Richard Dunne despite the fact the Aston Villa defender’s groin problem appears increasingly likely to rule him out.

Darron Gibson is unavailable but Keith Andrews is in line to be recalled after missing the game in Kazakhstan through suspension.

Marc Wilson and Séamus Coleman are expected to retain their places but there will be some interest in whether David Meyler or Robbie Brady have impressed the manager sufficiently to earn spots amongst the squad.

Grafter
26/09/2012, 2:22 AM
Trap is set to name the squad later today. Little snippet from the Irish Times report:
No doubt the squad will change with three weeks still to run....

NeverFeltBetter
26/09/2012, 2:31 AM
Gibson is unavailable through injury or choice is it?

I suppose Brady might make it in, I'd certainly consider him against the Faroe's. But not Germany.

CraftyToePoke
26/09/2012, 2:59 AM
I'd certainly consider him against the Faroe's. But not Germany.

This is it, this is a fixture in the group where you can look to blood young players, or at least give them squad places and training/set up experience ahead of certain journeymen, without taking the opposition lightly or jeopardizing the result. Whether Trap will do this or not will I reckon have a large bearing on how patient the fans are willing to be with him.

Colbert Report
26/09/2012, 5:00 AM
Faroes away will be a tough match, and I'm not kidding. We barely beat them the last time we played them, I think it was a very hard fought 2-0 win for us.

DannyInvincible
26/09/2012, 10:56 AM
Gibson is unavailable through injury or choice is it?

He made himself unavailable (on the day he picked up an injury, as it happened), but I understand the injury will rule him out either way.

Junior
26/09/2012, 11:26 AM
He made himself unavailable (on the day he picked up an injury, as it happened), but I understand the injury will rule him out either way.

For the foreseeable future or was that just for the Kazak game squad?

DannyInvincible
26/09/2012, 12:34 PM
Until he informs Trap otherwise, as far as I know.

tetsujin1979
26/09/2012, 4:23 PM
Sqaud announced: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/statuses/250976338792546304
Westwood, Forde, Randolph, Wilson, O’Shea, St Ledger, O’Dea, Ward, Kelly, McShane, Whelan, McCarthy (More to follow)...
https://twitter.com/FAIreland/statuses/250976470426611713
... (Cont) Andrews, Fahey, Coleman, McGeady, Keogh, McClean, Keane, Doyle, Long, Cox, Walters. Standby: Dunne, Brady. #COYIG (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23COYIG&src=hash)

nigel-harps1954
26/09/2012, 4:29 PM
And no space for (insert name here) yet again. Typical FAI, typical Trap. They are a disgrace to the nation.

Murfinator
26/09/2012, 4:34 PM
Sqaud announced: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/statuses/250976338792546304
https://twitter.com/FAIreland/statuses/250976470426611713

Shouldn't it be #COYBIG ?

Either way no Duff, presume that means he rejected their invitation to return.

Closed Account
26/09/2012, 4:44 PM
Looking very weak on the wings. Might force him into a change of formation. :rolleyes:

Westwood
Forde
Randolph


Kelly O'Shea St Ledger Ward
Coleman O'Dea McShane Wilson


Keogh Whelan McCarthy McGeady
Cox Andrews Fahey McClean


Keane Doyle
Long Walters

nigel-harps1954
26/09/2012, 4:47 PM
Westwood

Kelly O'Shea Sledge Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Keane Walters


This is how I see it turning out. I think he'll give McClean his chance against the Germans.

tetsujin1979
26/09/2012, 4:54 PM
Shouldn't it be #COYBIG ?

Either way no Duff, presume that means he rejected their invitation to return.
it should be, but they posted COYIG

tetsujin1979
26/09/2012, 4:56 PM
And no space for (insert name here) yet again. Typical FAI, typical Trap. They are a disgrace to the nation.
only player who can feel slightly agrieved is Joey O'Brien IMO. Playing regularly for his club, didn't do anything wrong against Oman, but Kelly and O'Shea are established in the squad.

NeverFeltBetter
26/09/2012, 5:01 PM
Fairly straightforward selection, nothing too surprising. I would presume Hunt's international career might be done for the time being.

In regards team selection, I would hope, if he goes with a 4-4-2, that at least Andrews would be put in for Whelan.

Supreme feet
26/09/2012, 5:04 PM
Westwood

Kelly O'Shea Sledge Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Keane Walters


This is how I see it turning out. I think he'll give McClean his chance against the Germans.

Substitute Ward for Wilson, and I'd be reasonably satisfied. I think Pearce, O'Brien and Meyler could have been included on stand-by at least, given the fact that we have two games.

Charlie Darwin
26/09/2012, 5:05 PM
I'm surprised Meyler isn't at least on standby, otherwise as expected.

Olé Olé
26/09/2012, 5:26 PM
Westwood

Kelly O'Shea Sledge Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Keane Walters


This is how I see it turning out. I think he'll give McClean his chance against the Germans.

Did Trap not already state that McClean won't be starting against Germany either?

I'm looking through the squad now and I'm not very optimistic that Trap will even change the team that much from the Kazakhstan game (Andrews aside). On the basis of the absentees from the Oman game, it's clear Trap hasn't placed too much weight in the performances from that win. Otherwise, Brady would be in the squad. Consequently, I don't think he's likely to change the team too dramatically.

Given the reality of Trap's selection framework, I don't think there is a strong enough argument to be made in relation to changing the back four. I don't agree with his selection against Kazakhstan because I think O'Shea is our best centre-half (Dunne aside) and Wilson is a superior left-back to Ward. However, this was Trap's chosen 4 against Kazakhstan and his loyalty to the O'Dea and Sledge as centre-halves and lack of trust in Wilson could ensure the same 4 is maintain. Coleman's recent run at right-back will be ignored, I reckon.

McGeady is nailed on for one wing. I'd like to see Doyle, Long or McClean on the opposite flank with Doyle or Long partnering Robbie up front. It's most likely that Doyle/Walters and Keane will start up front. I think Doyle did enough against Kazakhstan to merit a recall to the starting line-up because Trap has shown plenty faith in this partnership in the past. Also, Trap doesn't fancy Long and Keane up front. Ultimately, I think it comes down to a call between Long and Cox on the wing. However, as we saw at the weekend, Long is a great impact sub. This could stand against him and Trap could start Cox, knowing that Long is in reserve for the final 30 minutes. So Long and Walters could be kept in reserve, alongside McClean.

The middle of the park provides an interesting conundrum. McCarthy was the better of the pair against Kazakhstan and, on that basis, deserves his start. The issue is that I feel Trap likes to have Whelan lying deep and that McCarthy filled the Andrews role against Kazakhstan i.e. the more advance, dynamic of the pair because dynamic isn't Whelan's middle name. Now that Andrews has returned, Trap is likely to again demonstrate his preference for him and put him straight into the side. This would all mean that McCarthy loses out.

Olé Olé
26/09/2012, 5:28 PM
Fahey could be a wildcard selection on one wing too, it just dawned on me, in place of Cox. That'd leave a decent bench including McCarthy, Cox, Walters, Long and McClean.

Murfinator
26/09/2012, 5:51 PM
Westwood

Kelly O'Shea Sledge Ward

McGeady Whelan McCarthy McClean

Keane Walters


This is how I see it turning out. I think he'll give McClean his chance against the Germans.

He already said he wouldn't play McClean, given his EPL form just as well too. Not sure what he has planned for that other wing without Duff though.

nigel-harps1954
26/09/2012, 6:05 PM
Trap says all this stuff. But do you really trust what he says? He'll spring some sort of surprise yet.

Charlie Darwin
26/09/2012, 6:18 PM
Fahey could be a wildcard selection on one wing too, it just dawned on me, in place of Cox. That'd leave a decent bench including McCarthy, Cox, Walters, Long and McClean.
Fahey started on the left against Slovakia away if I remember correctly, and had been introduced on the left when he scored against Armenia.

geysir
26/09/2012, 6:44 PM
Was he not on the right side against Slovakia away?

Charlie Darwin
26/09/2012, 7:07 PM
I think you're right actually, McGeady was on the left.

centre mid
26/09/2012, 7:17 PM
I'd love to think Coleman woulc get a run, he has managed to force himself into the starting 11 at Everton in the last few weeks.

paul_oshea
26/09/2012, 7:43 PM
he was most definitely on the right where the ball came in from for the goal

Stuttgart88
26/09/2012, 8:08 PM
yeah but that was a set piece, an inswinger.

I'd prefer to see Fahey playing wide left and McGeady on the right, rather than having Keogh or Cox wide.

Charlie Darwin
26/09/2012, 8:13 PM
Have we decided that the right is McGeady's best position?

geysir
26/09/2012, 10:56 PM
Anytime I see those clips from him at Spartak, he's on the right side.
I think Fahey was used on the right side against Slovakia because Lawrence got injured against Russia. Good to have him back in the squad and Trap likes him.

backstothewall
27/09/2012, 12:44 AM
Have we decided that the right is McGeady's best position?

I've been banging the play McGeady on the right drum for years, but I've recently changed my mind!

Crosby87
27/09/2012, 12:51 AM
Speaking of Ireland/Germany, I coincidentally learned today that Hitler's father (Alois Hitler) had a second wife who was from Ireland, and they had a son named William Patrick Hitler (Hitlers Half Bro) who at some point lived in New York. Any of you related to him?
Discuss.

Charlie Darwin
27/09/2012, 12:57 AM
I'm not but I am the grandfather of Hitler's beloved Social Darwinism.

EastTerracer
27/09/2012, 3:29 AM
Speaking of Ireland/Germany, I coincidentally learned today that Hitler's father (Alois Hitler) had a second wife who was from Ireland, and they had a son named William Patrick Hitler (Hitlers Half Bro) who at some point lived in New York. Any of you related to him?
Discuss.

Alois was Adolf's half-brother (not his father) so William Patrick was Adolf's nephew. Alois was a waiter in the Shelbourne Hotel but that was way before Adolf came to power in Germany

William's sons still live in Patchogue, Long Island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Patrick_Hitler

gastric
27/09/2012, 6:27 AM
Emmet Malone comments on the squad and the German game.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0927/1224324471672.html

mark12345
27/09/2012, 10:45 PM
Trap says all this stuff. But do you really trust what he says? He'll spring some sort of surprise yet.

He better spring something. I'm getting really fed up with him now. No more excuses for him. He used up all his lives in Poland and promised us a different approach for the current campaign, but it's just more of the same.

Paul McShane in a squad that doesn't feature Wes Hoolahan. How can that be? Hoolahan is a creative ball player and should be in the starting eleven. McShane is well......

The tactics will be all wrong again. But we'll have to wait and see.

Charlie Darwin
27/09/2012, 10:49 PM
McShane and Hoolahan play in different positions. McShane isn't in the squad to play, he's in the squad because in a dire emergency he knows the system inside out and can slot in seamlessly. There's a reason Trap likes him - he'll never be a great player but if he's given a specific job to do he will do it.

Paddy Garcia
27/09/2012, 11:12 PM
McShane and Hoolahan play in different positions. McShane isn't in the squad to play, he's in the squad because in a dire emergency he knows the system inside out and can slot in seamlessly. There's a reason Trap likes him - he'll never be a great player but if he's given a specific job to do he will do it.

But Pearce is a much better bet than McShane - who every game will present the opposition with at least one gilt edged opportunity.

Charlie Darwin
27/09/2012, 11:24 PM
Pearce was a mess against Tottenham - he and his defensive partners presented the Spurs strikers with half a dozen chances they shouldn't have. He looked very loose in possession against Oman too.

McShane is an extremely limited player but he plays fine for Ireland. He does very little and gives away very little. I'd be a little worried about him at centre half but he can do a passable job if required. I'd be far more worried about Clark or Pearce making a glaring error and giving away a goal. Believe it or not, discipline often trumps natural ability, and McShane is not blessed with natural ability.

Truth is we don't have any world class defenders, or anything close to it. Russia aside, Richard Dunne gives up gilt-edged chances in most games. It's what happens when you play superior opposition. McShane is like a less talented version of Dunne - tonnes of heart, never stops trying but ultimately a flawed footballer.

Noelys Guitar
28/09/2012, 12:56 AM
I see Trap has already started bigging up McCarthy and suggesting we might play a different system. He says the exact same things before every game with only the personnel changing. Big up a player and then not play him. And we always play 4-4-2. He might change his mind closer to the game and play McCarthy out wide on the left./right instead of Cox but at this moment in time McCarthy will not be starting. The only doubt Trap will have in regards to the starting 11 will be one of Doyle or Walters and I believe he will choose Walters to start.

Side will be Westwood
O'Shea O'Dea Sledge Ward
Cox Whelan Andrews McGeady
Keane Walters

Charlie Darwin
28/09/2012, 12:57 AM
Who else has he bigged up and not played?

Noelys Guitar
28/09/2012, 1:27 AM
Who else has he bigged up and not played?
Ironically McClean a week before the Kazakhstan game. That didn't end well. McCarthy numerous times. Doyle and Long numerous times. Do you believe he will start McCarthy instead of Andrews? Or change the system to accomadate McCarthy? There is the slimmest of chances Trapatonni will play McCarthy instead of Cox but I doubt it very much.

Charlie Darwin
28/09/2012, 1:40 AM
What did he say to big-up McClean? He spent the entire week talking about how he was sick.

I suspect he will play Andrews, but possibly in a three-man midfield with Whelan and McCarthy.

Noelys Guitar
28/09/2012, 2:01 AM
What did he say to big-up McClean? He spent the entire week talking about how he was sick.

I suspect he will play Andrews, but possibly in a three-man midfield with Whelan and McCarthy.

http://foot.ie/threads/170411-Kazakhstan-v-Ireland-Squad-match-thread/page7 post 138 onwards.

Trap is just playing games with the media(and fans) by suggesting McCarthy might play in a three man midfield. He originally suggested an extra man in midfield after the 3-2 home defeat to Germany. Briefly mentioned it after the 0-0 draw away to Russia. Made it sound like a certainty after the Euros. Not going to happen.

Charlie Darwin
28/09/2012, 2:11 AM
Hardly bigging him up. He said that maybe he could play.

Noelys Guitar
28/09/2012, 2:43 AM
Hardly bigging him up. He said that maybe he could play.
But he had no intention of playing McClean. Trap is going to continue to play O'Shea at right back (despite the player saying he longer has the legs for it. Hence the move back to center half at Sunderland). Ward a poor left back will also start. Why? Within the squad we have Wilson and Kelly. Neither great players but better than what will start the game against Germany.. Kelly should be starting at RB. Wilson at LB and O;Shea and Sledge center backs. Coleman, Andrews, McCarthy Whelan and McGeady. Long as the lone striker. Westwood in goal. Not going to happen unfortunately. Germany are no Spain and we have the players that could really give them a tough game.

Charlie Darwin
28/09/2012, 2:51 AM
Germany are probably the closest side in the world to Spain in terms of ability.

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

Stuttgart88
28/09/2012, 9:14 AM
But is the system effective?

OwlsFan
28/09/2012, 11:33 AM
I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

While I agree with you, it is usually small margins which win games. O'Shea is incapable of finding his own player when playing at full back but I think he is played for his height as is Ward. We are quite a small team (even StL isn't that tall) and in the absence of Dunne we will be very vulnerable in the air at set pieces, not exactly Coleman's strongest asset.

A back 4 of Wilson, O'Shea, StL, Coleman on the ground is better than O'S, StL, O'D, Ward but not in the air. Which margin do you go with?

Noelys Guitar
28/09/2012, 12:19 PM
Germany are probably the closest side in the world to Spain in terms of ability.

I find it questionable that people demand Coleman be included instead of O'Shea and Wilson instead of Ward. It's at best a like for like switch. A conservative full back (Wilson) for an offensive (Ward) and vice-versa (Coleman for O'Shea). At best, we are slightly better off than before; at worst, we are more vulnerable using players unfamiliar with the system.

I'm not suggesting Coleman play at right back. I would play him out wide on the right in the same role he plays for Everton. I would play Kelly at right back with O'Shea moving back to center back. Kelly already knows the system and Wilson plays in a similar system at Stoke. Germany folded against an Italy side that then got hammered by Spain. That said they are a good side with some very good players. Which is why we need some pace in the team up front to keep their lumbering center backs busy. If we go with Walters and Keane as I suspect it will mean the ball coming straight back every time. Play Long as lone striker and Coleman out right and it will give the German defense a problem they won't have expected.