Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Uncle_Joe]

Glen Whelan may have picked up an injury. Substituted 20 minutes into yesterdays game.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/worldcup/2012/1007/340683-whelan-joins-ireland-injury-concerns/

[the bear]

If Trap starts an injured Whelan, how will anybody know the difference?

[elroy]

To have any chance of a result and to keep the crowd (many daytrippers) onside, Ireland must start well and try and get to half time scoreless. Last thing we want is Croatia/Spain all over again and we concede very early. Lets knock that habit on the head right now.

Secondly, its not all that long ago when many of us thought we could give Italy a right game and maybe beat them on our day. Perhaps that was a little over confidence but we did play alright against them. My point is Italy beat Germany in the Euros and reasonably comfortably in the semi as well. I hope Trap is studying that game very closely. Fine let them have the ball, we know thats gonna happen but we do not want a situation like we had against Russia where they are carving through us with ease.

[paul_oshea]

We will not score. Our only hope is a 0-0 draw. A drab affair would be fine. I'm not sure a wet surface would help us, sliding all over the place.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sadly, we don't have the personnel or tactics to prevent that, Elroy.

Maybe our best hope is the Germans score 2 quick goals and then go to sleep. Our most optimistic hope is a 1-2 defeat but fear far worse.
Though at least I won't take the attitude of that eejit orifice Roy Curtis who has reportedly called on Irish fans to boo the team from the start, FFS.

[DannyInvincible]

Whelan looking very unlikely to take part in either of the upcoming qualifiers: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/stoke-boss-pulis-upset-whelan-after-hamstring-setback-3573361


Stoke City boss Tony Pulis was disappointed for Glenn Whelan after his hamstring injury in yesterday's 0-0 draw at Liverpool.

He now looks likely to miss two vital upcoming international qualifiers for his country.

"He [Glenn] felt his hamstring again so we had no option than to take him off,” Pulis told the club's website. “I'm pretty sure that he won't be off playing with Ireland, which will be a huge disappointment to him, as of course it is to us too.

"He is a massive Ireland supporter and he is a very patriotic lad, so he will be desperate to be out there playing for his country and helping them to get the results they are looking for over the next nine or ten days.

"Unfortunately though, with the injury that he has it looks unlikely that he will be able to play a part in any of their two games."

[Grafter]

Whelan looking very unlikely to take part in either of the upcoming qualifiers: http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/stoke-boss-pulis-upset-whelan-after-hamstring-setback-3573361

Could this open the door for a certain Marc Wilson in midfield alongside Andrews and McCarthy???? Kind of refreshing to have a bit of uncertainty about an Irish team for a change ....

[jbyrne]

Sadly, we don't have the personnel or tactics to prevent that, Elroy.

Maybe our best hope is the Germans score 2 quick goals and then go to sleep. Our most optimistic hope is a 1-2 defeat but fear far worse.
Though at least I won't take the attitude of that eejit orifice Roy Curtis who has reportedly called on Irish fans to boo the team from the start, FFS.

didnt Germany recently struggle to beat Austria 2-1 away and only beat the faroes 3-0?
the Germans are a very good team but i dont think we'll get a hammering.

[the bear]

Could this open the door for a certain Marc Wilson in midfield alongside Andrews and McCarthy???? Kind of refreshing to have a bit of uncertainty about an Irish team for a change ....

I would of thought Meyler would be ahead of him for CM

[peadar1987]

We'll be reduced to Wes Hoolahan at this rate.

Nah, Owen Garvan is the future for the Irish central midfield.

[shakermaker1982]

Shane Long better start.......4-5-1 and hope for the best.

[ArdeeBhoy]

didnt Germany recently struggle to beat Austria 2-1 away and only beat the faroes 3-0?
the Germans are a very good team but i dont think we'll get a hammering.
Do want to take a bet on us conceding 2 goals or more, with the proceeds to charity?

Take your general point, but circumstances have dictated we're liable to take a good beating this time.

[Noelys Guitar]

Whelan has been playing well for Stoke in the recent games I saw him play. Yet for us in recent games he looks like he has super glue on his boots. Player or tactics making him look bad? He had a poor Euros and did not have a good game against Kazakhstan. The team at the moment looks like

Westwood
Kelly JOS O'Dea Ward
Cox McCarthy Andrews McGeady
Keane Walters
If he picks that starting 11 then expect hoofing all night and conceding at least two goals. No pace in that Irish team to make the German midfield and full backs think twice about pushing forward. Keane won't get a kick of the ball against this type of opposition. Its like playing with 10 men. And Walters is not a Niall Quinn type of player. He won't trouble either German center back enough in the air. With Whelan almost certainly out then I would play Mayler, McCarthy and Andrews in the center. Coleman out right. McGeady left. Long up front on his own. And Wilson in for Ward. Mayler and McCarthy are two very tough players who will not be intimidated by the Germans. Long can run that right channel all night. He makes great runs into the space between the left center back and the left back. Wilson has been in good form for Stoke and is a very steady player. Ward gets pulled out of position too often.and will be exposed again against the Germans.

[Murfinator]

Our strength in depth in the defensive areas isn't bad, losing Dunne, St Ledger, Whelan and replacing with O'Dea, Kelly and Andrews isn't too steep a climb down. I'd even they've been our in form players in those positions in the past few months. Not that it really matters who we play since Germany are on a different planet though it'll be interesting to see how the guys who came in do for leaving their mark down for a place. JOS back to centre back and Kelly to right back in particular I reckon is something that'd benefit us for the long run. Whelan has been diabolical for us in recent times too so I wouldn't be too upset if he didn't get his place back.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Clark has been called up

[Stuttgart88]

Wilson, Coleman, Clark, Meyler and Brady all in this squad now. Knowing how hard it is to actually get out of an Irish squad this might be a good sign!

[the bear]

I would start all of them

[Noelys Guitar]

Trap just said O'Shea being considered for center back but nothing else mentioned on other player changes or tactics.

[mark12345]

I would start all of them

So would I.

[Fixer82]

Westwood
Kelly JOS O'Dea Ward
Cox McCarthy Andrews McGeady
Keane Walters


I think you're dead right.

Personally I'd have:

Westwood
Kelly JOS O'Dea Wilson
McGeady McCarthy Andrews McClean
Keane Long

If that wasn't effective I'd bring on Meyler or Brady for Keane and let McCarthy play behind Long.
Wll any of this happen? Maybe. And by maybe I mean definitely not!

[Noelys Guitar]

So what are peoples predictions for the game? It obviously depends on the starters for both teams. If Trap starts with Ward, Cox and Keane then I can only see a straight forward 2-0 win for the Germans. If he changes things around and plays Wilson, Long, Coleman and possibly even Meyler then I can see us getting something from this game. Maybe a 1-1.

[DannyInvincible]

Wilson, Coleman, Clark, Meyler and Brady all in this squad now. Knowing how hard it is to actually get out of an Irish squad this might be a good sign!

Who did Meyler replace if Brady replaced Doyle?

[Olé Olé]

Who did Meyler replace if Brady replaced Doyle?

Glenn Whelan picked up a hamstring strain at the weekend. Not sure if he's been ruled out, but he is undergoing scans today.

[Stuttgart88]

Meyler was called up at same time as Brady I think - when Doyle withdrew. 2 in for 1, so not directly replacing anyone.

[SwanVsDalton]

Think Meyler was actually called up before Brady weirdly, on Friday. Appeared Trap just decided to get David in regardless of injuries.

I'd pick Meyler/Fahey in the middle with McCarthy and Andrews regardless of Whelan missing out. Pack the midfield and frustrate them. Don't think Keane's an ideal lone front man but he'll do, particularly if we utilise Long's pace out right.

If things stay tight, play Coleman on the right, Long into the middle with Walters and go for it.

It'll probably be 4-4-2 with Cox back in as a phantom midfielder. Fahey might have a decent chance to start though.

After the Euro trauma I truly fear a beating, but think Germany will ease to a 2-0 win.

Trying to keep in mind Portugal '01 and the late drafting of Stan and Dunne into central defence. There's always hope.

[IsMiseSean]

Great to see Clark finally get a call up, I'm a bit suprised Alex Pearce didn't get the nod ahead of him though.
Trap must not have been too impressed with what he saw during the Oman game.

Mats Hummels ruled out today.
Joachim Loew calls up Westermann to replace injured defender Hummels (http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/71772f9369cf40fea93337e4f8493511/SOC--Germany-Squad)

[Charlie Darwin]

Great to see Clark finally get a call up, I'm a bit suprised Alex Pearce didn't get the nod ahead of him though.
I'd say it was probably his performance against Spurs for Reading when Defoe made him look very ordinary. Both Clark and Pearce are very green at Premier League level but Clark has a bit more experience (and ability).

edit: Leverkusen defender Lars Bender has also been ruled out

[paul_oshea]

All these withdrawals could be a win win for Trapatoni, especially if end up losing by 2 or more goals.

[Murfinator]

So what are peoples predictions for the game? It obviously depends on the starters for both teams. If Trap starts with Ward, Cox and Keane then I can only see a straight forward 2-0 win for the Germans. If he changes things around and plays Wilson, Long, Coleman and possibly even Meyler then I can see us getting something from this game. Maybe a 1-1.

Comfortable German win with your first team, dominant German win for your 2nd team. You're insane if you think throwing in a stoke, west brom and everton reserve against probably the 2nd best team in the world is going to somehow earn parity. More than likely it'd make a bad situation worse with all the cohesion problems of missing every single starter from the last campaign in their position bar McGeady. We'd be looking at a 7-0 destruction if he did that.

[Murfinator]

Great to see Clark finally get a call up, I'm a bit suprised Alex Pearce didn't get the nod ahead of him though.
Trap must not have been too impressed with what he saw during the Oman game.

Mats Hummels ruled out today.
Joachim Loew calls up Westermann to replace injured defender Hummels (http://www.greenfieldreporter.com/view/story/71772f9369cf40fea93337e4f8493511/SOC--Germany-Squad)

Big blow, one of and if not the best centre back in the world at the moment. Though our midfield will actually have to create something for a change for our strikers to have any chance of capitalising on that.

[Charlie Darwin]

All these withdrawals could be a win win for Trapatoni, especially if end up losing by 2 or more goals.
While I have no doubt Trap would use something like that as proof of his selection policy, he would still prefer to be proved wrong.

[paul_oshea]

Well not really CD, because for the bigger picture, a loss against Germany is not a bad scenario at all, especially if that scenario is having played what he believes is the 2nd string.

Our qualification doesn't come down to losing the game against Germany on Friday, so a loss with what he regards as players who are either not ready or dont fit the system, relieves a lot of pressure, and can be used as leverage once again against the media and everyone else, and a stopper to change be that the system/tactics/players.

[geysir]

I suppose a nil-all draw in a 50/50 game would have us very satisfied. Those were heady days under Stan.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well not really CD, because for the bigger picture, a loss against Germany is not a bad scenario at all, especially if that scenario is having played what he believes is the 2nd string.

Our qualification doesn't come down to losing the game against Germany on Friday, so a loss with what he regards as players who are either not ready or dont fit the system, relieves a lot of pressure, and can be used as leverage once again against the media and everyone else, and a stopper to change be that the system/tactics/players.
You seriously think Trap cares about pressure from the media? He came out of the Euros with the worst record ever by a competing side and still insisted he made all the right calls. Apart from occasionally getting exasperated in press conferences, all he actually cares about is qualifying and he'll do it whatever way he likes and he's not going to welcome a loss just to prove wrong some journalists whose opinions he doesn't rate to begin with.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Germany are such a qualification machine, that a loss wouldn't even draw that much criticism from me, as long as there is some measure of positive stuff to take away from the game. A Moscow-esque performance with a lot of luck could get a draw, and I would be ecstatic.

[paul_oshea]

Ilkay Gündogan is missing as well now.

They are still not sure about muller due to his eye injury.

[DannyInvincible]

McClean has been ruled out due to hip injury: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/1008/340780-clarke-called-into-ireland-squad-for-germany-clash/


James McClean has been ruled out of Ireland’s clash with Germany due to an injury picked up over the weekend.

The Sunderland winger picked up a hip injury in Saturday’s 3-0 defeat to Sunderland despite playing the entire 90 minutes for Martin O’Neill’s side.

A spokesman for the Football Association of Ireland said: "The results of James McClean's scan this morning in Sunderland showed a grade one hip flexor strain which will certainly rule him out for the Germany match and may exclude him for the Faroe Islands.

"McClean will remain at his club to receive treatment."

[paul_oshea]

You seriously think Trap cares about pressure from the media? He came out of the Euros with the worst record ever by a competing side and still insisted he made all the right calls. Apart from occasionally getting exasperated in press conferences, all he actually cares about is qualifying and he'll do it whatever way he likes and he's not going to welcome a loss just to prove wrong some journalists whose opinions he doesn't rate to begin with.

I dont think he cares about the media but what they stir up indirectly effects him. IF the players start to take notice and the fans and the whole country eventually JD and the FAI posse take notice and his position becomes untenable, either through resignation or a pay-off*.

I'm aware of the FAIs circumstance, but this is under normal circumstance.

[Charlie Darwin]

I dont think he cares about the media but what they stir up indirectly effects him. IF the players start to take notice and the fans and the whole country eventually JD and the FAI posse take notice and his position becomes untenable, either through resignation or a pay-off*.

I'm aware of the FAIs circumstance, but this is under normal circumstance.
The fans have been against him since the first campaign - he's weathered that storm already. The players' only gripe is that he doesn't give enough of the fringe players a chance. His position won't become untenable because frankly he's achieved more than could have been expected, even if he has failed to restore the kind of champagne football we played under Brian Kerr and Steve Staunton.

[paul_oshea]

You are only as good as your last game so to speak CD, and his last games haven't been very good.

You cant live off reputation for ever.

[Murfinator]

I suppose a nil-all draw in a 50/50 game would have us very satisfied. Those were heady days under Stan.

In fairness given the situation of that match a draw qualified Germany whereas we needed to win to stay alive, they just happily took the draw and why wouldn't they.

[SkStu]

The fans have been against him since the first campaign - he's weathered that storm already. The players' only gripe is that he doesn't give enough of the fringe players a chance. His position won't become untenable because frankly he's achieved more than could have been expected, even if he has failed to restore the kind of champagne football we played under Brian Kerr and Steve Staunton.

Sorry but that's garbage.

His popularity with fans is at an all time low. He actively alienates players. The players gripe about his communication, tactics, mentaliteeee, stubbornness, selections and in fact the last thing they complain about is him not giving fringe players a chance.

The only reason his position will not become untenable is because it would cost the FAI too much to acknowledge that. I can't wait until he is gone to be honest.

[Charlie Darwin]

You are only as good as your last game so to speak CD, and his last games haven't been very good.

You cant live off reputation for ever.
I'll give you the Kazakhstan game but at the Euros we were just outclassed by classier footballers.


Sorry but that's garbage.

His popularity with fans is at an all time low. He actively alienates players. The players gripe about his communication, tactics, mentaliteeee, stubbornness, selections and in fact the last thing they complain about is him not giving fringe players a chance.

The only reason his position will not become untenable is because it would cost the FAI too much to acknowledge that. I can't wait until he is gone to be honest.
His popularity is at an all-time low, yes, but he was already very unpopular in the first campaign when people figured out he was just going to park the bus for 90 minutes and hope to nick a goal. His big mouth gets him in trouble but so far we haven't lost anybody we'll miss as a result.

When have the players questioned his tactics? If anything, they blame themselves for not passing the ball enough within the system. I mean fringe players like Gibson and McClean have complained about not being given enough chances.

[jbyrne]

His popularity with fans is at an all time low.

when did we last have a manager who was continually popular with the fans? Even Jack went through periods of unpopularity.
most of our fans are deluded about the land of milk and honey that they think would exist if trap left. we go through this phase with each manager only to find that the next management doesnt deliver on these expectations either

[Fixer82]

What does our squad look like now with all the injuries/withdrawals?

[Supreme feet]

Goalkeepers: Westwood, Forde, Randolph

Defenders: Kelly, Coleman, O’Shea, Clark, O’Dea, McShane, Ward, Wilson.

Midfielders: Meyler, McCarthy, Andrews, Fahey, McGeady, Brady.

Strikers: Keane, Long, Cox, Walters, Keogh.

[SkStu]

when did we last have a manager who was continually popular with the fans? Even Jack went through periods of unpopularity.

And where exactly did I suggest otherwise? Jack or anyone else's popularity is irrelevant. They are gone. What I wrote is indisputably true. His popularity is at an all time low. And rightly so in my opinion.

He's a dinosaur. I hope he gets the chop and the sooner the better.

[SkStu]

most of our fans are deluded about the land of milk and honey that they think would exist if trap left. we go through this phase with each manager only to find that the next management doesnt deliver on these expectations either

I am well aware of and prepared for the dark times that are ahead for Irish football that are not the fault of any manager but rather the fault of the administrators of the game here. I just don't want Trap as manager while we still have some talent available to us. Prehistoric the crap that we play.

[Charlie Darwin]

A couple of little tidbits from the Times' updated article: Trapattoni said O'Shea will "probably" play CH (I think earlier reports just said he hinted) and that he's been playing a three-man midfield in training games with Andrews, McCarthy and one of Fahey and Meyler. I'd actually forgotten Fahey was in the squad, but I think Meyler might have a better chance of featuring due to his physique.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/1008/1224325038014.html

[paul_oshea]

I am well aware of and prepared for the dark times that are ahead for Irish football that are not the fault of any manager but rather the fault of the administrators of the game here. I just don't want Trap as manager while we still have some talent available to us. Prehistoric the crap that we play.

Whilst I agree with SkStu overall, i think there is relevance to the argument that aren't irish fans always unhappy, the point being they should be ignored, could be a valid one.

Personally, I'm happy for the short term impact for longer term benefits of having Trap, if he got us to qualify for Brazil. If we qualify it keeps the interests or breeds new interest for 7, 8 , 9 year olds in soccer in the country. If the structure and organisation within that period of say 10 years can change and focus more on technical ability than anything else then its a double whammy.

What I don't believe is that we can't get both with Trap, the change that everyone wants, with the players that people would like to see brought in and a slight change of tactics. But I'm still willing to let Trap do his stuff, only if we get the results though, and those seem to be running out fast.