Ireland V Germany 12th October & Faroe Islands 16th October 2012 - World Cup 2014 Q

[Charlie Darwin]

So? They still had better players than us in almost every position.

[the bear]

We have since played much poorer teams than the French on that night and failed to show anything like that kind of endeavour. That match completely goes against the style of play in any of our other games. I'm really not sure who is responsible for it.

[ifk101]

So?

If you are going to put the performance down to the team or Trapattoni, you might as well factor in the opposition.


They still had better players than us in almost every position.

So?

[Charlie Darwin]

If you are going to put the performance down to the team or Trapattoni, you might as well factor in the opposition.



So?
The fact Ireland were demoralised on Friday does not take away from Germany's performance. France were not themselves in Paris but they were a good side filled with world class players and were second best on the night. They were poor but Ireland were good.

[ifk101]

Our performance on Friday has been widely described as one of the worst, if not the worse performances by an Irish side. We contributed to the performance of the Germans. We allowed them to play as they pleased.

[Charlie Darwin]

And they were very pleasing. Of course our performance contributed to their dominance, but that doesn't mean they weren't good. All I'm saying is that we were excellent in Paris and only failed to win because we lacked a world-class finisher.

[paul_oshea]

We did play well in Paris but we know now the French were in a terrible mess.

That is all.

I think people are so blinded by how poor we have been from an attacking since, since trap took over that they think because we created 3 chances in France that could/should have produced goals i.e. clear cut chances, they somehow seem to think we played exceptionally well. Go back and have another look at the game.

[Ross]

Anyone in the UK know if the match is televised? Sky Sports don't seem to be showing it

[tricky_colour]

How many stupid stats have been quoted on this thread?

Bloody Sky Sports have a lot to answer for.


It's not that bad, only 7.39% of the posts actually contain any stats.

[paul_oshea]

I'm actually getting worried Germany wont beat sweden tomorrow and will be happy with the 4 points from the trip.

And if that is the case, that is going to be the biggest blocker to us not qualifying, assuming we sort ourselves out before we go to stockholm.

[Closed Account 2]

I dont think that's likely, Germany are at home they are much much better than Sweden man for man and as a collective. Also the Germans wont want to come anywhere near losing that game, if they lose then the Swedes will go level with them and the Germans will, as usual, endavour to have the group done and dusted by the summer - I dont think they'll risk a scenario where they are 0-0 at 85 mins and might lose the game down to a lapse. In all probability the game will be sewn up by 70 mins.... Even if what so say does happen I can't see Sweden doing a clean sweep on all the other teams in the group. These are there results since Euro 2012 (where they lost to Ukraine and England but beat an already qualified France):

H - Brazil L 0-3
H - China W 1-0
H - Kazakhstan W 2-0
A - Faeroe Is W 2-1

On paper it's three wins and a defeat, but the wins are very narrow ones against reasonably weak teams. Being beaten by Brazil at home is to be expected, but this was more or less the Brazil Olympic team. They only beat China 1-0, China's football team is pretty hopeless they hardly ever win away from home and a 1-0 home win for Sweden is a fairly limited result. Similarly beating the Kazakhs 2-0 at home (with a last minute goal) isn't much to write home about. No doubt people will say we only beat them 2-1 away with some last minute goals, but bear in mind plastic pitches and 10 hour flights only really apply to matches in Astana and not Stockholm. Kudos to them for putting away the Faeroese 2-1 away from home in what is a potential banana skin, but I dont think the Swedes will get 9 points from the games in Astana, Vienna and Dublin - they are the very definition of an average side and in some ways the Austrians are just as dangerous from our point of view. They are catchable and hopefully we'll be level with them after tomorrows matches.

[paul_oshea]

I was thinking they were away edmundo, someone told me they were definitely away, as I thought they were at home alright.

[EastTerracer]

Team just read out by Trap:

westwood, coleman, o'shea, o'dea, wilson, brady, andrews, mccarthy, mcgeady, keane, walters

Wilson and Brady get their first competitive starts....

[TrapAPony]

Ireland XI vs Faroe Islands - Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Wilson; Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady; Keane, Walters

[paul_oshea]

Wow the 6-1 Drubbing has finally made Trap realise what I said all the way back against slovakia at home, that ward is just not up to the standard. Great to see well done Trap. Hats off.

Poor kelly, he should be definitely starting against them.

Now lets take it to the faroes, definitely the gap is closing but we can beat them and thats a decent team. We should not be over-run in midfield.

I'm positively looking forward to this game. Trap finally making the right calls, but perhaps too little too late.

[TrapAPony]

Clark for O'Dea would have been nice but happy with the rest of the team tbh

[centre mid]

McGeady is lucky to have kept his place. Clark should be ahead of O'Dea anyway, if only for the fact he makes less mistakes.

[tetsujin1979]

really attacking side there, even in defence

[fionnsci]

Thank god re Brady and Wilson. Still taking the **** re Clark and Long.

[Closed Account 2]

I was thinking they were away edmundo, someone told me they were definitely away, as I thought they were at home alright.

Yeah the Sweden v Germany match in Sweden is the last match of the group. One would assume the Germans will have qualified long before that so there is a chance they will send a reserve team to Sweden (Holland actually did this for Euro 2012 qualification - and the Swedes beat the Dutch reserve team), but I think Germany's reserves would beat Sweden anyway.... I would imagine they'll send their first team anyway, the Germans are ruthlessly professional at this sort of thing and it would be utterly out of character for them to send a sub-par team.

[Manblue]

Thank god re Brady and Wilson. Still taking the **** re Clark and Long.

Who would you drop for Long...thought Walters was one of our best the other night and Keane has a proven knack for banging them in against this sort of opposition.

[tetsujin1979]

Don't think Kelly should be starting ahead of Coleman, not until he's starting regularly again at Fulham
O'Dea for Clark is the only change I'd make there.

[fionnsci]

Who would you drop for Long...thought Walters was one of our best the other night and Keane has a proven knack for banging them in against this sort of opposition.

I actually do agree, I kind of changed my mind after posting. Happy enough with the strikers. Would have Long marginally ahead of Walters still.

[paul_oshea]

I think Kelly might have been a better option than Clark or Coleman at right back. Coleman just isn't sound enough defensively yet. But in 5 months time when we are playing sweden and austria, he might hopefully have 6 months under his belt of playing consistently as a right back.

[Olé Olé]

Delighted to see Brady and Wilson get the nod. Walters retaining his place too is deserved after his toil Friday night, even if Long is still unlucky not get a start.

Can't believe O'Dea is being retained though. Kelly or Clark at centre-half, or anyone else for that matter. Coleman was given a torrid time by Reus, I agree but, overall, I don't think it was a terrible international debut. I think O'Dea at centre-half made too many mistakes. Coleman, at least, was composed on the ball. The same cannot be said for O'Dea.

[Olé Olé]

One way of looking at Coleman starting is that if he is troubled by whoever the Faroes have on his flank then it's a very sad indictment of him, given that even if his defensive abilities were only of League One level than he should capably deal with the opposition. He'll provide a massive threat from right-back.

On the other hand, O'Dea, one would hope, would be able to deal with the threat from whichever Faroese attack is facing him. However, he cannot be trusted to play composed and effective ball out of defence, as was clearly demonstrated against Germany, but also against Kazakhstan. He's also liable to make a mistake.

[rebelmusic]

I think Kelly might have been a better option than Clark or Coleman at right back. Coleman just isn't sound enough defensively yet. But in 5 months time when we are playing sweden and austria, he might hopefully have 6 months under his belt of playing consistently as a right back.

While i didn't agree with Coleman starting against the Germans - it was purely down to his lack of experience. Saying that, he is the right full back we want to see in our future teams and these are exactly the matches he should be playing to gain experience. I would say that Long's omission is down to Keane and not Walters. To be honest, Keane has a proven track record of scoring against minnows and we need the lift for this match. We also badly need to fix some of our goal difference so i agree with the striker choice.

For me, the only one who shouldnt be in there is O'Dea. The Germany match proved to me how brilliant Dunne really is. O'Shea always looked strong next to him, so did O'Dea. Without Dunne they both looked cr.ap, O'Shea being slightly better than O'Dea. Absolutely should be Clarke starting and again there's no excuse. A manager should drop players when they're underperfoming and O'Dea was one of our worst players against Germany.

[geysir]

Nope. I'm not. It's a really bad Icelandic translation of where I live given the Norse provenance of the area.

When I lived in Stoneybatter/Oxmantown I had "Austmennstad" there.

In Lucan, it was Elm Place.

And now I live in Smithfield Which gives "Sviði á Smiðar" or "Field of Smiths" or from it's Irish translation of "Margadh na Feirme" or "Farm Market" you get "Bæmarkaði"

But if Geysir wants to correct it or improve it I am more than happy!

I can try to move it up another sviði :)

"Bæmarkaði-Sviði á Smiðar", it's not Icelandic but similar, meaning somewhat distorted from the pure (scandinavian) stuff.
Bæ = town /city
markaði (genitive/dative case?) market

sviði = classification/level/catagory/type
smiðjar = woodwork

I'd expect a 6/10 for this guess - at the town market - various woodwork types. carvings possibly?

[paul_oshea]

a Don't you mean plural mistakes? :)

I still can't believe, the manager included that people were blind to the fact that O'Dea played for Toronto, and that indictment alone was proof of his ability. Was it arrogance or ignorance to be so dismissive of other managers? You can't think 1 or 2 ok performances against poor opposition is a marker for a player, yet this was always the reasoning behind the O'Dea has been nothing but solid blah blah blah for us.

Poor Trap is dying by his own sword.

[paul_oshea]

Why has Trap changed his phillosophy/policy/system? He is playing all these attacking players? Playing players we always wanted and discarded his own defensive approach? Do you think perhaps he wants the sack?

[BonnieShels]

I can try to move it up another sviði :)

An Icelandic joke? YUSS! I get jokes.


"Bæmarkaði-Sviði á Smiðar", it's not Icelandic but similar, meaning somewhat distorted from the pure (scandinavian) stuff.
Bæ = town /city
markaði (genitive/dative case?) market

sviði = classification/level/catagory/type
smiðjar = woodwork

I'd expect a 6/10 for this guess - at the town market - various woodwork types. carvings possibly?

Jaysus, Google is pants sometimes.

I got Bæ as Farm. Sviði as field/area. Smiðjar came from when I translated Blacksmith and then I attempted to Pluralise it.

So, eh, can you translate it for me then: Margadh na Feirme-Smithfield

[BonnieShels]

Why has Trap changed his phillosophy/policy/system? He is playing all these attacking players? Playing players we always wanted and discarded his own defensive approach? Do you think perhaps he wants the sack?

Desperate measures, cornered dog response.

[paul_oshea]

I'd prefer a cornered dog(well breed specific), than a cornered rat.

[geysir]

Wilson will hoof it more accurately to Walters.
We're back to 442, with Walters up front. And with Fahey dropped, that can only mean one game plan.
Why can't we have a ball player like Fahey in there? What is the big fear of having a player who is all-round competent and can pick out a pass?
Brady is a prospect - why not bring him on after 60 minutes or so? if and when the game is safe.

It just shows that Trap's idea was to clutter the midfield against Germany, with no assigned or valued technical roles for each midfielder or one that suited each midfielder.
And now the 3 central midfielders tactic is up in smoke? How on earth would a team set up like that, hope to compete against any other team in the group?

[brine3]

What is the big fear of having a player who is all-round competent and can pick out a pass?

McCarthy is that player.

Keith Fahey was ****e against Germany.

[shakermaker1982]

I'm glad Ward has gone.

I've have moved Coleman to RM and played Kelly at RB.

O'Dea is a lucky lucky boy after that dire showing on Friday, same goes for O'Shea.

The Trap is relying on his captain BIG TIME tomorrow. If Keano has a bad night at the office & heads start to drop then the Trap will be gone by the weekend.

[centre mid]

Keith Fahey was ****e against Germany.

A bit unfair on Fahey, his job was to keep Ozil quiet.

[BonnieShels]

I'm glad Ward has gone.

I've have moved Coleman to RM and played Kelly at RB.

O'Dea is a lucky lucky boy after that dire showing on Friday, same goes for O'Shea.

The Trap is relying on his captain BIG TIME tomorrow. If Keano has a bad night at the office & heads start to drop then the Trap will be gone by the weekend.

How O'Shea is still there is merely down to lack of options. He was beyond gash. And he should be slowly removed from the squad.

I've always tried to defend him when I can but mother of lord.

[Murfinator]

Why has Trap changed his phillosophy/policy/system? He is playing all these attacking players? Playing players we always wanted and discarded his own defensive approach? Do you think perhaps he wants the sack?

I think the FAI are putting pressure on him to change some things with regards playing younger players and changing the formation. Which seems to have pushed Trap out of his comfort zone which is to the benefit of nobody. Last 3 squads have been very untypical from Trap.

[Murfinator]

As for the game, we're relying on Robbie Keane heavily tomorrow both for leadership and goals. Bit of a sad state that he has to take a pain killing injection against the faroes when we have Long/Cox/Keogh around too but in the circumstances we need him.

[Charlie Darwin]

I really hope this means Walters will be playing in his wide Stoke role, not the big knock-down man that he was employed as in Astana.

[Murfinator]

I really hope this means Walters will be playing in his wide Stoke role, not the big knock-down man that he was employed as in Astana.

The Kazakh defence was very good and bossed him that night, there's no harm trying it again but if he gets dominated aerially again we need to be flexible and able to revert to Plan B.

[TerryPhelan]

Team v. Faroe Islands:
Westwood, Coleman, O'Shea, O'Dea, Wilson, Brady, Andrews, McCarthy, McGeady, Keane, Walters

Let's forget the Germany game for a moment - this is probably the most attacking line-up Ireland has selected in a very, very long time (dating right back to Mick's tenure).

Coleman: excellent attacking right-full, rightly selected and hopefully going to make that position his own and put an end to the travesty of JOS at right back.
Wilson: been saying this for a long time, he is not just our best option for LB, he is our ONLY option. A solid and versatile performer. Hopefully this will be the last we see of Stephen Ward for quite a long time.
Brady: outstanding so far. Very cocky, confident and exciting - can shoot from range and has a brilliant setpiece delivery. This is a good time for a character like him to come in - fresh face, full of self-belief, untainted by the maulings we've had (save for the 5 minutes he played against Germany, when he had the assist for Keogh's goal).
Andrews and McCarthy: not a holding CM between them. Andrews is a guy who should always be playing further up the pitch. McCarthy is a classy, technical ball-player who will hopefully dictate the tempo.
Walters and Keane: okay, I want Long to be in from the start. But we need a proven performer like Robbie to dig us out. Walters is someone I'm pinning some moderately high hopes on as being a big contributor for Ireland over the coming years. I feel that whoever the next manager is will use him a little differently and get more out of him.

Thoughts lads?

[Sullivinho]

Pleased to see Wilson and Brady included and happy that the 'Cox on the wing' experiment seems to be over.

[Stuttgart88]

I'm a bit worried about centre of defence. O'Dea will be short of confidence and O'Shea needs to pull his finger out.

Wilson is a welcome addition.

I'm not fussed about reverting to 442 because I doubt the Faroes have enough in them to dominate midfield, unless we allow them to. I'd hope that Coleman can be free to focus on offensive duties.

McGeady is lucky to be retained. I'm losing pateience with this fella. I'm beginning to think his tricks and gimmicks would be best suited to the freestyle circuit.

I hope the players take it among themselves to play their own game, use their heads and give it a proper go. We'll win by at least a couple if we do that.

John McDonnell knows the Faroese well. He says they will have put so much into the Sweden game that they'll be knackered after a while against us. We need to starve them of the ball and keep them running around.

[Diarmo]

A bit unfair on Fahey, his job was to keep Ozil quiet.

By the way, WTF was that about? Fahey was probably the least defensive of our three centre mids against Germany, yet he's shackled with a man marking job? Baffling. Along with McClean and McCarthy behind the striker, I think Trap has no idea what to do with the third CM.

[brine3]

A bit unfair on Fahey, his job was to keep Ozil quiet.

Not sure if it was Özil's doing that caused Fahey to pass the ball straight into touch a couple of times when under no pressure.

[centre mid]

Centre back is a real worry tomorrow, it was noticeble on Friday how much of a disconect there was between midfield and defense in those central positions. O'Shea and O'Dea were constantly dropping off and leaving a sizable gap between themselves and the midfield. Andrews, on a nubmer of occasions had to bawl both O'Shea & O'Dea out of it. Whatever about O'Dea and his relative lack of experience, O'Shea shouldnt be getting these basics wrong. I suppose it echos the point already made above about how important Dunne is to this team.

[centre mid]

RE Fahey

He looked shattered by the time he was taken off, its just not his game. Point taken though, he didnt play well in possession.

[the doc]

How O'Shea is still there is merely down to lack of options. He was beyond gash. And he should be slowly removed from the squad.

I've always tried to defend him when I can but mother of lord.

It's only a few days ago people were calling for JOSH to be played at CB.
Make your mind up!

In Trap we must trust