Reducing Costs

[peadar1987]

A lot is being made in other threads of the cost of participation in the LOI, so I thought I'd set up a different thread for the issue.

What ways could costs realistically be reduced to protect current clubs, and make joining the league more attractive to new ones?

Off the top of my head, perhaps collective bargaining for transport, insurance, and policing might reduce overheads. Then there's the classic of regionalising the leagues, but there are already 30 threads on that.

[Quayman]

The league entry fee is a joke, clubs finishing outside the top 3 automatically make a loss straight away. Think its 19 or 20k to enter. Thats alot for smaller teams on considerable low budgets.

[Dodge]

We have a utilities company as sponsor as the clubs don't receive anything from them. That'd be a start

[Jofspring]

I think a huge way you could cut costs for new clubs would be to cut there travelling by regionalising the first division for a few years at least till clubs find their feet. For example what would be the cost to just rent a bus from Cobh or Tralee up to Harps, €1,000+ ?? Then have to do that twice a season and maybe 3 or 4 times depending on cup draws.

The price of officials in the first division too. The last I heard you could be talking €1,500-€2,000 just for the officials. I'm open to correction on that one though.

More promotion of the first division in the newspapers, radio announcements, mns and sports news on rte/tv3 is needed to be pushed also. A lot of people probably don't even realise there is a first division so when it comes to promoting the clubs they are way behind straight away meaning the costs will be higher trying to get word around of games, news etc....

The participation fee has to be reduced or the prize money increased.

Organising a collective sponsorship of the league by a brand like oneills or umbro that will then supply training equipment, footballs etc...for the clubs.

[Trainee]

Why dont clubs come together and say we wont pay any player in the league more than €500 a week, most players are not good enough to play anywhere else so will end up playing in LOI anyway, Maybe Fai could reduce affilication fees & Refs fees etc

[NeverFeltBetter]

More promotion of the first division in the newspapers, radio announcements, mns and sports news on rte/tv3 is needed to be pushed also.

I actually think that this is the only thing approaching a "magic bullet" in terms of solutions. Publicity, and then more publicity.

[Sean South]

Why dont clubs come together and say we wont pay any player in the league more than €500 a week, most players are not good enough to play anywhere else so will end up playing in LOI anyway,
Another comedy gold post brought to you by the good folks at GUST

[bennocelt]

Was watching MNS the other week and noticed two completely bored garda out on am empty terrace on their own in the rain, think it was Dundalk. It had me wondering do LOI clubs pay for this? i sincerely hope not.

[Sam_Heggy]

Why dont clubs come together and say we wont pay any player in the league more than €500 a week, most players are not good enough to play anywhere else so will end up playing in LOI anyway, Maybe Fai could reduce affilication fees & Refs fees etc

A wage cap would be something worth looking at but really, there are very little clubs paying out that kind of money anymore.

[Dodge]

Why dont clubs come together and say we wont pay any player in the league more than €500 a week, most players are not good enough to play anywhere else so will end up playing in LOI anyway

There's nothing stopping clubs only offering €20 a week. No one but the clubs sets wages. players can ask for what they like. Clubs can pay what they like. (provided 65% blah blah)

[Dodge]

Was watching MNS the other week and noticed two completely bored garda out on am empty terrace on their own in the rain, think it was Dundalk. It had me wondering do LOI clubs pay for this? i sincerely hope not.

yes, they do pay for it

[Sam_Heggy]

There's nothing stopping clubs only offering €20 a week. No one but the clubs sets wages. players can ask for what they like. Clubs can pay what they like. (provided 65% blah blah)

I think the minimum you can pay a player is €50 in wages. You can give him "expenses" though.

[horton]

Would regionalising not require FAI and IL integration otherwise Donegal/Cavan/Monaghan teams would lose out with a tiny Ulster region? Surely all it would take is for the directors of each team to collectively demand a league fee reduction and whatever other silly terms there is to be removed before they sign up? If teams didn't agree to the terms we wouldn't have a problem!

[Trainee]

Would regionalising not require FAI and IL integration otherwise Donegal/Cavan/Monaghan teams would lose out with a tiny Ulster region? Surely all it would take is for the directors of each team to collectively demand a league fee reduction and whatever other silly terms there is to be removed before they sign up? If teams didn't agree to the terms we wouldn't have a problem!

Regionalising is not a good idea as if you have a group of 6-8 teams, clubs will play each other too often or they wont have a enough home games in a season, Clubs must have a min of 15 home games a season other I dont think it will work

[redobit]

I think the minimum you can pay a player is €50 in wages. You can give him "expenses" though.

Geting Mark Rossiter in as a Consultant in this area would be money well spent.

[Sam_Heggy]

Regionalising is not a good idea as if you have a group of 6-8 teams, clubs will play each other too often or they wont have a enough home games in a season, Clubs must have a min of 15 home games a season other I dont think it will work

Like the current 1st Division?

[sadloserkid]

I also fall very firmly into the Clubs-should-stop-offering-wages-they can't-afford camp. The entry fee is too high and should be looked at but we're not talking about enough money there to suddenly make insolvent clubs thriving examples of professionalism. Wages are definitely the biggest drain on what passes for resources here.

[bennocelt]

yes, they do pay for it

I can understand for the big games but do they really need the coppers out for the small games - Bray V UCD, etc.
I go to a lot of small club games here in and around London and for some games you never see a copper (games with similar/slightly bigger attendances)
How much would it generally cost Dodge?

[NeverFeltBetter]

I suppose that's an issue of "Just in case"

If there was a fight or trouble, regardless of the size of the crowd, the first thing people might ask is "Why wasn't there any security?"

I presume they subsidize the St Johns crowd too.

[Dodge]

How much would it generally cost Dodge?

Honestly haven't a clue. There isn't even a uniform approach is its down to local sergeants. Some clubs may have better relations than others etc

[Mr A]

I also fall very firmly into the Clubs-should-stop-offering-wages-they can't-afford camp. The entry fee is too high and should be looked at but we're not talking about enough money there to suddenly make insolvent clubs thriving examples of professionalism. Wages are definitely the biggest drain on what passes for resources here.

For several of the D1 clubs, wages are now not that big a proportion of expenditure having already been cut back massively. Going completely amateur is an option of course, but then the club risks losing what fans are still there and their player to clubs from intermediate and junior leagues that demand a lot less of their players and pay a lot more. It's difficult for senior clubs that have to play things by the book when there are non-senior clubs that seem able to lash out money from their backers with impunity. Legacy debts add to the issue of course. The situation is not a straightforward one, but certainly something needs to be done to make life for clubs in D1 some way viable.

[sadloserkid]

I don't disagree with you at all Mr.A but basically if a club can't afford to operate at semi-professional status they can choose to go amateur, wind up or play the league classic spend-money-you-don't-have-and-hope-something-comes-up (though it never has card). The divide between senior and junior/intermediate is a big factor (we know this as well as anybody in Limerick over the years) but that's more symptom than cause of the malaise, when things are going well on and off the field the threat from the lower levels of football is far less significant. I don't like to say it and hope we don't lose any more clubs but the brutal truth is that in the current climate there possibly isn't room for all of our senior clubs to operate at the level they would like, if at all, in some cases. The worry is obviously, as you suggest, that reducing costs will reduce standards which lowers the appeal of our product to the audience (most of whom view us as undesirable anyway) and that a cycle of decline ensues. Interesting times ahead for sure.

[citybone]

I think regionilising could work but it would involve scrapping the 1st division and these clubs going back to the provincial league, eg, Wexford in the LSL, Finn Harps in the Ulster Senior League with Mons, This would make the Provincial leagues better, including restarting the Connacht Senior League and getting clubs outside of Cork into the Munster senior league, have one team relegated from the Premier division and one to come up from a series of playoffs between the Provincial senior leagues. Otherwise we would need 30 senior clubs in order to have a 10 team premier and 1st division north and 1st division south.
I would say Merging Northern and Southern leagues is the only way we will have 30 + senior clubs.

[Charlie Darwin]

Scrap the entrance fee and reduce prize money accordingly, to zero in some cases if necessary.

Contract referees centrally and charge the clubs a monthly fee instead of messing around with officials fees.

Rationalise the calendar so clubs aren't going 4 and 5 weeks without a home fixture.

[nigel-harps1954]

I'd be all for the use of the LSL, USL, MSL and a CSL, but the problem with them is, they'd need to be broadened out a bit, as you say citybone, the MSL is essentially Cork senior league, the USL is essentially Donegal senior league, and the LSL basically Dublin area.

They would really need to involve as many counties as is possible. A proper makeover of all the regional leagues.

There's too much work in it. The only way forward is regionalised North and South division one. Entry fee needs to be significantly reduced as does referees costs.

Again too much work means the FAI won't bother their arses.

[Macy]

I'd imagine the biggest fixed cost for clubs are controlled by the FAI - League entry fee's and officials costs. Most other costs can be avoided to a large degree - clubs themselves have control over wages, they can play during the day to avoid electricity bills etc. Perhaps the old rules about games over a certain distance having to be at weekends could be reintroduced (even in an amended form of travel time, rather than distance)?

Regionalisation may reduce travel costs, but then you'd also have much less attractive fixtures with clubs with little support and a driving down of the overall standard. Overall standard could hit attendances, and also makes the step up harder. So it's not going to solve the problem unless it's done properly with proper entry criteria - it could just give us 2 grave yards instead of one. I still think if there's going to be a change in structure, it should be something much more radical which could involve regionalisation.