Where to now for Bray Wanderers

[BrayUnknowns]

Still it is time to pause in this war of words for a little eight second breather and let the lads in those old portacabins reflect on their achievements to date.

Have you been in the "old portacabins"? Better equipped than the vast majority of dressing rooms in the League and a lot bigger too. They were only installed a few seasons ago. As far as portacabins go, there pretty state of the art. There probably the best thing about the Carlisle... As for the rest of it mind you...

[peadar1987]

Yeah, once you're inside you'd think you were just in an office. I've been in plenty of worse "permanent" interiors! The toilets are absolutely rubbish though, and my conscience would be slightly clearer if even a small section of the DART stand was covered to shelter away supporters from the elements!

[benbulben]

That is good news for Bray-but it is a scandal that the licence only gets announced now-just as the season starts.What sort of way is that to run a League?
Anyway I am off to get my season ticket -no way was I getting one until the season was confirmed - reading the forum
it looked like there was no chance . Looks like all that infighting has beeen sorted- and about time.

[BrayUnknowns]

That is good news for Bray-but it is a scandal that the licence only gets announced now-just as the season starts.What sort of way is that to run a League?
Anyway I am off to get my season ticket -no way was I getting one until the season was confirmed - reading the forum
it looked like there was no chance . Looks like all that infighting has beeen sorted- and about time.

It's the League of Ireland way...

Don't always believe what you read on the net... Pinch of salt. Wanderers were always going to get a Premier licence

[starryknight]

Ok that is enough of a breather, it's back to business now.

Sure the old portacabins will eventually wear out and fall apart but there will be plenty of spare ones around to be taken from bust builders.

What we have here now is a record that is not going to go away.

It is about how a couple of individuals in Wanderers contrived and plotted to get out of loans they took from decent people.
It's a story that has still to run its course.

The details will still be here for all to read for a long time into the digital future. Done a google on Wanderers recently?
It will stand as a warning to others that certain people in Wanderers have acted as turncoats when it suits them:
A turncoat is a person who shifts allegiance from one loyalty or ideal to another, betraying or deserting an original cause by switching to the opposing side or party.

[Albatross]

That is good news for Bray-but it is a scandal that the licence only gets announced now-just as the season starts.What sort of way is that to run a League?
Anyway I am off to get my season ticket -no way was I getting one until the season was confirmed - reading the forum
it looked like there was no chance . Looks like all that infighting has beeen sorted- and about time.

I'm afraid the infighting has not gone away and will not go away until the person, and I specifically say person, as he is the cause of everything that is wrong with Bray Wanderers has no further involvement in the club. The board do not run the club, nothing happens with out this individuals approval. I intend to fight for the club to be returned to the real owners of the club, the supporters. If the supporters did not come to matches there would be no club and nobody should forget that. The club is not somebody's private little fiefdom where glory will fall where it is not deserved and in case there is any doubt I'm not talking about Pat Devlin or anyone involved in team affairs. To reiterate again, justice will prevail.

[benbulben]

That is a pretty shocking situation.What way is that to run or support a team?If this infighting is as bad as you say is there any point following the team.Football in Ireland is suffering more now than ever before.The number of clubs that have collapsed and are on the brink of collapse is mad and it cannot go on.Dundalk only have a provisional licence as they change hands again.Monaghan were with us last year and are gone.Bohemians still have big trouble with loans that they owe.There are three senior clubs in Galway and not one good one between them.Now looks like Limerick are the club with funds for th season-I hear they are chasing players everywhere.Sligo didnt keep some of their winning team players for cash reasons.Where will it end?

[BrayUnknowns]

I'm afraid the infighting has not gone away and will not go away until the person, and I specifically say person, as he is the cause of everything that is wrong with Bray Wanderers has no further involvement in the club. The board do not run the club, nothing happens with out this individuals approval. I intend to fight for the club to be returned to the real owners of the club, the supporters. If the supporters did not come to matches there would be no club and nobody should forget that. The club is not somebody's private little fiefdom where glory will fall where it is not deserved and in case there is any doubt I'm not talking about Pat Devlin or anyone involved in team affairs. To reiterate again, justice will prevail.

Returned to the real owners, the supporters... But the supporters have never owned the club and let be honest about it, the club would die if the supporters owned it. We do not have enough supporters attending games to pump enough money into the club to sustain a Premier Division team. The only reason why Bray are still going today is the money that the Slevin's have put into it over the years, no other reason than that. Other people have been brought in on the board to invest in the club but after a couple of seasons they withdrew the money they said they would invest and moved on to something that would make them money.

[Mr A]

There is infighting at ever Irish club, from the smallest to the biggest.

If the supporters want a say, organise and get active. There's no point just complaining about stuff.

[benbulben]

You can't invest money in a club and expect to make money.Nobody has and nobody will -here or as everyone knows in England.There is so much stuff on this website that makes no sense-loans written off ,directors sacked ....if half the energy went into the team that goes into the internal politics of the club Bray might be champs..no reflection on Pat Devlin who has done a great job and puts in great effort .(I'm not his mother either!)

[Dove]

You can't invest money in a club and expect to make money.Nobody has and nobody will -here or as everyone knows in England.There is so much stuff on this website that makes no sense-loans written off ,directors sacked ....if half the energy went into the team that goes into the internal politics of the club Bray might be champs..no reflection on Pat Devlin who has done a great job and puts in great effort .(I'm not his mother either!)

It is my understanding that the people who put money into the club and were later sacked put it in for the wider good of the club and the future development of Bray Wanderers.

These people should be encouraged and praised for supporting League of Ireland, like all the others around the country who put their hands in their pocket to support LOI, week after week.

Benbulben correctly points out that you do not put money in football for a financial return. You do it for the love of the local club and the game, and people putting money in know this. Many investors see their return marked in the local success of a club, and we should not always look upon € as the only way you can mark a return on investment.

What we need to do is to get more of these investors involved and show them respect for supporting the LOI.

Would you not agree?

[Albatross]

There is infighting at ever Irish club, from the smallest to the biggest.

If the supporters want a say, organise and get active. There's no point just complaining about stuff.


Returned to the real owners, the supporters... But the supporters have never owned the club and let be honest about it, the club would die if the supporters owned it.

On this thread supporters were given the opportunity to buy shares in the club and while admittedly there were only a few takers the club has refused to ratify the transfer of those shares so it looks like the club are determined to ensure that supporters are not involved.

In response to BrayUnknowns, you are right, the phrase "Returned to the real owners, the supporters" was incorrect but where I was coming from was that I believe the Barcelona Model is where the club should aspire to in that the club is owned by the supporters and those who run the club are accountable to the supporters. At this point in time those who run the club are accountable to no-one.

[Seagull]

reading the forum
it looked like there was no chance

You wouldn't want to believe all that gets posted here masquerading as fact, plenty of people with their own agendas out there. Bring on the football!

[starryknight]

You can't invest money in a club and expect to make money.Nobody has and nobody will -here or as everyone knows in England.There is so much stuff on this website that makes no sense-loans written off ,directors sacked ....if half the energy went into the team that goes into the internal politics of the club Bray might be champs..no reflection on Pat Devlin who has done a great job and puts in great effort .(I'm not his mother either!)

Spot on Benbulbin, you can’t invest money in a club and expect to make money.
But you should at least expect to be treated with respect.

Lets face that fact. Investors are an important part of Irish Football, look at who’s paying half the national manager’s salary.

When they give generously they don’t expect to be shafted at some later stage.

The story of Investors in Bray Wanderers from 2007 to 2012 has been written and printed and is waiting to go. It is going to show how well meaning investors were literally dragged into litigation for more money in 2012 even though they had concluded their contact in 2008. Some people in Wanderers think this is only an internal club matter and should only be of concern to themselves, but when a club sets out on a course to shaft investors then this impacts on the wider community and on football in general.

Do the boys in those portacabins really think that shafting well meaning people would remain as some internal Wanderers matter and never get out and be given full public scrutiny?

Well boys, we know you sit there every morning reading this forum?

Is there any movements there in your consciences maybe telling you that your actions have left a big blot on the good character of a fine club?
Are you all happy that what you have done was honest, honourable and correct behaviour and something that you would recommend to all followers of football? To other clubs even?
Last chance to make amends and keep the relationships between sports and the people who are generous enough to give time and money to sports on the right track.
Interested?

No? No response from you?
No comment to make as usual?

Ok well, then the full story might as well come out.

[Albatross]

You wouldn't want to believe all that gets posted here masquerading as fact, plenty of people with their own agendas out there. Bring on the football!

Which of the facts on this thread are not true or is this just wishful thinking? It's possible I suppose that your are not talking about this thread. As for agendas, yes there are agendas, like getting paid money that is rightfully owed, the forcing of that individual to go legal to get paid. The club would not do that to a player? All people are looking for looking for is justice and to be treated with respect or would you be opposed to that?

[Seagull]

Which of the facts on this thread are not true or is this just wishful thinking? It's possible I suppose that your are not talking about this thread. As for agendas, yes there are agendas, like getting paid money that is rightfully owed, the forcing of that individual to go legal to get paid. The club would not do that to a player? All people are looking for looking for is justice and to be treated with respect or would you be opposed to that?

I have no idea what's fact or fiction here. Posts are put up by people hiding behind pseudonyms, that's how the forum works. If anyone thinks a forum like this is the place to air allegations like I've seen here, I'd say you're deluded to think that act will change anything. There's 11 pages of this now, three or four people replying to each others posts and I'd take it all with a pinch of salt. Just because someone says something is fact doesn't make it so. There's two sides to every story and there's only one biased side here. Wanderers have a better squad heading into a new season than they've had in a long time, I'm looking forward to a season fot the first time in years. Well done to everyone at the club who has made this so, bring on the football!

[starryknight]

I have no idea what's fact or fiction here. Posts are put up by people hiding behind pseudonyms, that's how the forum works. If anyone thinks a forum like this is the place to air allegations like I've seen here, I'd say you're deluded to think that act will change anything. There's 11 pages of this now, three or four people replying to each others posts and I'd take it all with a pinch of salt. Just because someone says something is fact doesn't make it so. There's two sides to every story and there's only one biased side here. Wanderers have a better squad heading into a new season than they've had in a long time, I'm looking forward to a season fot the first time in years. Well done to everyone at the club who has made this so, bring on the football!

Sure bring on the football but make sure it is run properly and that the leaders in the club have acted and continue to act totally above board.

There are questions to be asked about the management in Bray and their contribtion to making Wanderers by now the widely acclaimed club for this run of infighting.
In case you missed it the allegation here is that some people in Bray Wanderers set out to shaft investors and also did the same to others who had contributed greatly to the club.
It looks like at least six of the former board are ****** off over what has happened and that leaves just two controllers on the other side.

So, Seagull, go out for yourself and ask the questions and find out yourself what is fact or fiction.
Can you refute any of what has been detailed in the past 11 pages?
Cause if you can then I suggest you say so for all to read,
rather than waffle.

[Seagull]

Cause if you can then I suggest you say so for all to read,
rather than waffle.
I'll leave the waffling to the experts already posting in this thread, they seem like they know what they're at. Anonymous allegations on an an internet forum don't impress me much, I'm happy that the club has a Premier licence, a decent squad and the season is imminent. I support a football club, I'm sure there's politics but, so what?

[starryknight]

Sure Seagull, no problem, live just for the game and have no concerns about the politics or the affairs of Bray Wanderers.

No concerns about how things are done,,
No concerns about the image of Bray Wanderers,
No concerns about any acts of the officials running the club,
No concerns about how Wanderers is seen in the community.

I’m sure you pay attention to questions of standards in sports. How about the big questions of doping in sport and Lance Armstrong, how about questions of match fixing and FIFA attempts to weed it out. How about the small questions, how about making sure that all involved, both players and other professionals, are paid properly for their efforts and not left out of pocket. I’m sure you would agree that professionals like trainers, physios, coaches, accountants, and other people giving professional assistance should also be properly paid. I hope you will agree that integrity and keeping your word is important.

Sure a few whistleblowers are posting and Bray Wanderers’ dirty laundry is getting a public showing. Somebody started the mess.
There is plenty more to come out, it will get a full public viewing, might not interest you, but it will fascinate others.

[benbulben]

Are there any fundraisers coming up?
From reading this thread looks like a lot of funds will be needed this year.

[Seagull]

Sure Seagull, no problem, live just for the game and have no concerns about the politics or the affairs of Bray Wanderers.

No concerns about how things are done,,
No concerns about the image of Bray Wanderers,
No concerns about any acts of the officials running the club,
No concerns about how Wanderers is seen in the community.

I’m sure you pay attention to questions of standards in sports. How about the big questions of doping in sport and Lance Armstrong, how about questions of match fixing and FIFA attempts to weed it out. How about the small questions, how about making sure that all involved, both players and other professionals, are paid properly for their efforts and not left out of pocket. I’m sure you would agree that professionals like trainers, physios, coaches, accountants, and other people giving professional assistance should also be properly paid. I hope you will agree that integrity and keeping your word is important.

Sure a few whistleblowers are posting and Bray Wanderers’ dirty laundry is getting a public showing. Somebody started the mess.
There is plenty more to come out, it will get a full public viewing, might not interest you, but it will fascinate others.
Looking forward to seeing Bray Wanderers on Oprah, hot on the heels of Lance Armstrong...

[starryknight]

Looking forward to seeing Bray Wanderers on Oprah, hot on the heels of Lance Armstrong...

Full marks there, good one:), made me laugh and you certainly need a laugh in this doom and gloom thread. Thanks.

[Albatross]

Looking forward to seeing Bray Wanderers on Oprah, hot on the heels of Lance Armstrong...

Oprah, Nah! don't think so, what about Tubridy, O'Connor or better still Joooooooooooooooooe Duffy, now there's a man who loves his bit of scandal.

[Dove]

The title of the thread is WHERE TO NOW FOR BRAY WANDERERS

Can we forget about talk of Oprah and angry radio channels and stick to the theme.

First congrats to all for getting the Premier Licence.

Now if I am correct nothing has changed. We still had a skeleton board (2 is not enough)

Is there any way that the club could entice the others (and more) back to the board, and to help drive the club forward, PLUS Bray need to widen the shareholder base.

For years the Slevin boys were there........and what a great job they done.

Could they be tempted back?

What about the others?

Over the last 6 months all sorts of things have been posted, and all I believe in the firm belief of helping the club..
We now need to bridges built.

The club needs NEW shareholders.

The club needs New Directors (not shadow directors) but acting Directors who will take up roles and work for the good of the club, set out road maps and strategy.

How about Bray doing a call for help.


I am sure there are retired senior -ex Directors of major companies and public bodies with wide corporate experience who would relish the chance to give back something to the local community and town. They would have a wealth of experince and major contacts.

They could help devise a plan: Where to now for Bray Wanderers-2013-2016 -A 3 year plan.

Any takers on this?

[KK77]

Could Pat Devlin step in and help the club? Throw a few quid in or get more involved at board level? Would that even be allowed if was still manager? I know there was something a few years back about him being an agent and allowed manage as well but it was cleared up that he was just an advisor! LOL I notice Katie Taylor is saying he's her agent! Advisor Katie, advisor! LOL

[Albatross]

Since it's Fr. Ted weekend I thought I'd make a dignified protest so here goes.

DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING!

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!

Bray Wanderers is a bit like Suriname, where two tribes have been "knocking the **** out each other" since 2007 and it's proved impossible to unite them "in the spirit of Christian harmony".

Maybe it's time to give our own Bishop Brennan a good kick up the arse; in the mean time I'm practising making arrows, I know it will come to me eventually.

[dahamsta]

I've received the following quoted legal threat (original here (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/126915/fax000091898.pdf)) yesterday, purporting to be from a Kieran Kelly, who claims to represent Bray Wanderers Ltd. (I use "purporting" and "claims" advisedly, since people have been known to send me fake "solicitor's letters" in the past. No, I'm not kidding.) The letter arrived by fax, so presumably Mr. Kelly lives in the nineties.

I'm posting it here publicly because I view the decision to skip the simple process of reporting the posts in question using the tools specifically designed for that purpose as lazy, ignorant, cowardly and even wasteful; and I refuse to deal with solicitors unless required to do so via the courts system.

I refuse to do so because of the terrible advice they often give, such as asking me to furnish the private data of Foot.ie users, which would put my company firmly in breach of the Data Protection Act. I know this because I've asked the Data Protection Commissioner; because solicitors have demanded this information from me in the past. I'm sure Mr. Kelly has made a mistake in this regard, since I'm sure he wouldn't intentionally ask someone to suborn themselves.

I've reviewed the posts in question and while I think a couple may be questionable, my ignorance on matters football - I've never denied it - preclude me from deleting them on the off chance that something might be defamatory. Therefore I will be consulting with other moderators before taking any action. I will say, however, that I absolutely won't be deleting all of them. You'd have to go massively out of your way to draw some of the implications that have been drawn.

I'll take action on this by close of business on Friday of next week, the 15th of March. In the meantime, I'd suggest that the people responsible for handling the problem in this way - and it is barely a problem - look into self-esteem counselling. People are criticised, get over it. If you can't get over it, get a job that you won't be criticised in. Or just grow a pair of balls.

The rest of ye, I don't want to see anything else in this thread that even borders on defamation while I sort this out, understand? I've had a crap week, the last thing I need is more of this nonsense. Don't come to my attention or you might get more than you bargained for.

Finally I'd like to add, to all those ahabs out there who criticise Foot.ie or me personally for the way the site is run, bitching and whining like a bunch of a little girls, calling me and mine names and throwing threats around like big men: This is why Foot.ie is run the way it is.

I get several of these a year, every year, and despite that, despite my having to spend time and money facing down wimps that can't take criticism and can't communicate for themselves, Foot.ie is still here, 12 years later, hammering away goodoh. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.


We have been instructed by Bray Wanderers Limited, which is the limited company which operates Bray Wanderers Football Club.

You manage and host the website "Foot.ie".

Firstly, our client wishes to emphasise that they have no difficulties or problems whatsoever with the forum such as you operate and the encouragement of discussion about matters, particularly Irish football matters and matters insofar as they concern Bray Wanderers.

Regrettably, It has come to our client's attention over the past number of weeks that there are individuals who are grossly defaming of the Club and its two directors. Mr Jack O'Neill and Mr Eddie Cox.

By way of example, on 20 February 2013 Starry Night refers to the directors of the company and describes them as "turncoats". (Post number 205). Albatross states at 206 that the Board does not run the Club. This Is grossly defamatory of the directors and suggests that they are not carrying out their fiduciary duties and responsibilities to the company. At post 214, Starry Night clearly implies that the Board are dishonest, dishonourable and act inappropriately and with improper behaviour. At post 209, there is the implication that there is widespread doping in Bray Wanderers and that there is Improper accounting going on.

Other posts which are suggestive of unlawful and disreputable behaviour on the part of the Board include those at posts 163, 172 and 177.

In the first instance, we call upon you to immediately remove the offending posts identified above. Secondly we need assurances that all posts to this thread will be properly moderated so that allegations of this nature will not be repeated in the future.

Thirdly it is our client's intention to bring defamation proceedings and whatever other proceedings It feels will be necessary against the posters, "Starry Night" and "Albatross". Accordingly, we hereby call upon you to furnish us with the details of the posters of the threads to include any email addresses, contact addresses, names and any other relevant details which would identify these people who chose to hide behind anonymous names.

We await hearing from you as a matter of urgency.

[peadar1987]

Hope your week improves mate!

As for any persons connected with Bray Wanderers reading this thread, this is one of the largest online football communities in Ireland, and the support base is vital to Bray as a club. Would it not make more sense for the club to register an account at foot.ie and talk to the posters quietly by private message to try and clear things up, rather than take legal action against the fans of the club, which, regardless of whether the contents of posts here was defamatory or not, is going to stir up ill feeling?

[dahamsta]

That would be the mature, adult thing to do, certainly.

[lowflyingseagul]

what a great club we support .......

[dahamsta]

This thread is closed until further notice. I'm seriously considering banning all discussion of Bray Wanderers on Foot.ie because of this nonsense.