Republic of Ireland V Oman - Tuesday, 11th September 2012 - Friendly - Fulham

[NeverFeltBetter]

Brady's showing tonight will do him no harm when it comes to potential places in the MUFC line-up. They're having some problems at left wing at present, League Cup coming up. He'll get at least one start between now and Germany.

[the bear]

for set piece delivery alone he's worth having in our team

[BonnieShels]

Can someone please tell me the point of this game? I'm not criticising any of the players because a 4-1 win is a 4-1 win but what did the players gain from it or management? Oman were absolutely useless.

If you want to watch players by all means give them chances, but there is no point pitting them against such weak opposition. It doesn't tell you anything more about them. If a player has a good game, people will still question their ability to do it against quality opposition and especially with the time and space you get against opposition like Oman. You want your players tested. You want your players playing at the highest levels so they have opportunities to learn and improve. They don't do that in games like this.

If we beat Oman 10-0 playing nice football, do people honestly feel it would have any bearing on how we are set up for the rest of the games? I personally don't think it would. The second we come under pressure against any side we would no doubt revert to route 1 again.

This isn't an attack on trap I just feel if were gonna stick with him we should prepare for the competitive games we're going to play , by playing that way in friendlies against stronger opposition because tonights performance will not have any resemblance to how we play against Germany.

If we struggled to break them down and scraped a 1-0 win would we have learnt any more from the experience?

Oman are ranked 93 in the world; Kazakhstan are 142. Now the FIFA rankings are somewhat skewed as they more often than not seem to favour most Confederations over UEFA due to UEFA's incredible strength-in-depth. But there's no denying that in theory tonight should have been more difficult than it was on Friday. We were playing a notionally better side with a completely changed team that had never played before together.

I think we learned a lot tonight.

[BonnieShels]

for set piece delivery alone he's worth having in our team

Couldn't agree more.

[Manblue]

If we struggled to break them down and scraped a 1-0 win would we have learnt any more from the experience?

Oman are ranked 93 in the world; Kazakhstan are 142. Now the FIFA rankings are somewhat skewed as they more often than not seem to favour most Confederations over UEFA due to UEFA's incredible strength-in-depth. But there's no denying that in theory tonight should have been more difficult than it was on Friday. We were playing a notionally better side with a completely changed team that had never played before together.

I think we learned a lot tonight.

What did we learn though?

[Murfinator]

Can someone please tell me the point of this game?

Getting a brief look at Brady and Pearce I suppose, checking out Coleman at RB. Nothing you wouldn't get from a behind closed doors training match. Perhaps there were no better teams available for the friendly today, looking at the friendly fixtures only Brazil, Czech Rep, Finland and some African teams who may not travel were playing friendlies. If there was nothing better today was marginally better than nothing but it's going to be of no real worth for our germany game. Impossible to learn anything playing a B team against poor opposition.

[zero]

i was at the game tonight and was a bit surprised how poor oman were. they're not such a terrible side based on recent form and have a reasonable chance of actually qualifying for the world cup. however 3 of our four goals came from crosses into the box which they failed to deal with.

plus points: long and doyle both looked sharp and strong. brady provided a lot of creativity though was ambling all over the park as if in a free role. hard to believe trap authorised this... meyler looked like a good version of paul green. i personally thought coleman was a bit erractic, i can't see him starting at full back against germany or in any other competitive fixture for a while. mcclean looked good when he came on.

minus points: keogh. he was our weakest player and did very little against a defensively poor side. both forde and randolph looked shaky. mccarthy didn't do much - i reckon we're back to whelan/andrews for the germany game. meyler had the better game of the 2 centre midfielders.

[Murfinator]

i reckon we're back to whelan/andrews for the germany game.

On that note why wasn't Andrews called up for this game? There's always the chance with Trap that like with Hunt he could just exclude him entirely for no good reason, although unlikely.
Also there's a very real chance Whelan could be dropped for Stoke and play very little in the next month, if that happened it may have a bearing on Trap's decision. He tends to make his most erratic calls against the big teams so I'm sure there'll be something we don't expect.

[Manblue]

Getting a brief look at Brady and Pearce I suppose, checking out Coleman at RB. Nothing you wouldn't get from a behind closed doors training match. Perhaps there were no better teams available for the friendly today, looking at the friendly fixtures only Brazil, Czech Rep, Finland and some African teams who may not travel were playing friendlies. If there was nothing better today was marginally better than nothing but it's going to be of no real worth for our germany game. Impossible to learn anything playing a B team against poor opposition.

Accept the point about availability of stronger opposition, Perhaps a behind closed friendly against premier league opposition who are looking to settle in new players after the transfer window may of been a better option (provided a club were willing to oblige). I know a couple of clubs played games at the weekend to do this amongst themselves so don't think it would of been impossible to arrange.

As i said, i do want to see new players and its nice to see them get an opportunity but against such opposition i feel it is a bit pointless. Oman are doing ok in there group and have drawn with Australia but that doesn't mean much when you see them losing to Jordan tonight.

[the bear]

i was at the game tonight and was a bit surprised how poor oman were. they're not such a terrible side based on recent form and have a reasonable chance of actually qualifying for the world cup. however 3 of our four goals came from crosses into the box which they failed to deal with.

plus points: long and doyle both looked sharp and strong. brady provided a lot of creativity though was ambling all over the park as if in a free role. hard to believe trap authorised this... meyler looked like a good version of paul green. i personally thought coleman was a bit erractic, i can't see him starting at full back against germany or in any other competitive fixture for a while. mcclean looked good when he came on.

minus points: keogh. he was our weakest player and did very little against a defensively poor side. both forde and randolph looked shaky. mccarthy didn't do much - i reckon we're back to whelan/andrews for the germany game. meyler had the better game of the 2 centre midfielders.

Nice to here comments from someone who was at the match. Mostly I agree with you.

Worrying that we still have to rely on set piece goals against such a poor defensive team. Although we did come up with some promising interplay that unfortunately ended up at Keogh's feet, who you are right is woeful.

I think describing Colemans performance is erratic is off the mark although i understand what you mean. I would see it as opportunism which is very important to a FB's game and he should go roaming if he is allowed to. However I'd say Trap would see this the same as you. I was very impressed by him in CM. He looked assured, composed and direct.

Meyler and McCarthy were trying things throughout the match, a lot of it wasn't working out for them but I think they are small mistakes that will be ironed out after they get a couple of caps behind them. We could of got a glimpse of the future of our CM tonight.

Was hoping Wilson would get more time. very hard to judge him on tonight and unsure of how Trap ranks the LB's now. Hopefully Pearce can be a good player for us. As i mentioned above Brady should go straight into the team now. We are a team that looks to score most of our goals from deadballs. With deliveries like tonight we'll score plenty

[tricky_colour]

I am not angry with him ( McClean) [about the Tweet]. I never get angry with my players and I don't watch Twitter."

Well you would not be watching it Trap, you would be reading it ;)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/12/ireland-robbie-brady-giovanni-trapattoni?newsfeed=true

[tricky_colour]

For what it is worth Oman do not play much outside their 'zone', games they have played include away to
Australia and Japan, who are ranked 1 and 3 places above (ie better) us respectively.

So it seems like a par performance all round, making the team as good as our first team.

As for the choice of opposition, I don't know when the fixture was arranged but I doubt Trap wanted to go into the German game on the back of a defeat.

It also give him a chance to get a look at some players in a safe environment.

[Colbert Report]

If you're as bewildered as me as to why we struggled with our best team against the lowly Kazakhs and yet beat Oman handily with a B team yesterday - Ramadan. The Oman players had just finished observing Ramadan and their fitness levels were not up to snuff according to their manager. Makes sense to me, the reason we played Oman at this time of year looks like a smart move from the FAI.

[jbyrne]

Can someone please tell me the point of this game? I'm not criticising any of the players because a 4-1 win is a 4-1 win but what did the players gain from it or management? Oman were absolutely useless.


always better to play than not play no matter what the opposition. i doubt too many other better teams were idle / interested in playing a friendly last night.
as a minimum it means that when brady, meyler etc are required when it counts it wont be their first cap and they should be more comfortable with their surroundings as a result

[paul_oshea]

I lost all my objectivity, in the giddiness and excitement of seeing all these young players playing in front of me under traps reign, that the closest sniff of a touch of a ball and I was giving glowing assessments.

But if I were to look at the positives this is what I saw:

Doyle and long were good, long had a very good half but not so much in the second.
Brady has something special about him, but id worry about his weight in the future, strong lad, good leap, great touch, and very quick – also most importantly he is a natural left footer.
Mccarthy very good first half but probably tired a little in the second half.
Meyler had a good 25 minutes but at least he got a full run out. He was a bit too casual for traps liking at times I would say. Only playing 10-15 minutes a week so it’s understandable really.
Wilson was solid, I know it was only oman but he played some lovely balls as well, only on for a half but id definitely start him ahead of ward.
Keogh tried hard but really saw his limitations.
Kelly was solid.
Coleman was very good in the second half some of his running in the midfield was very good but he wouldn’t get away with it against stronger opposition
Mclean didn’t do a great deal.
Pearce looked good when he came on.
St ledger showed experienced and talked a bit which was good.

I think brady or less likely Wilson are they players to get that 1 spot trap was on about.

And yes the keogh and mcclean comments are seen as positives...

[dynamo kerry]

My only concern is that 3 of the 4 goals were set pieces against a side I hear are quite short? I guess I've learned that even against weak oppostion scoring goals from open play is going to remain a challenge.

[geysir]

What did we learn though?

We learnt that a Trap team can try to play with the ball on the ground for 90 mins and we could see a few new players in the flesh in amongst that team.
What matters is what Trap takes from it, re players like Pearce, Meyler, Wilson and Brady, but I wouldn't hold my breath that there will be much deviation from lumping it up towards Walters or Doyle.

Good news I hope for Cox, who (according to a Trap prognosis) should be okay.

[Fixer82]

Great to see some of the young lads doing well, especially Coleman and Brady.
Will they have a chance of starting the next competitive game? Hello no!

[Noelys Guitar]

Traps comments after the game suggest little change from the team that started against Kaz. He mused about a 5 man midfield or a 4-4-1-1. Whether to attack the Germans or sit back(easy one to answer). Maybe McCarthy in a 5 man midfield with Whelan and Andrews(not going to happen). Sounds like a 4-4-1-1 then against Germany very similar to our formation away to Russia in the last campaign. Looking at last nights game through Trap glasses Wilson might have played his way into the team. But I still think he will go with
Westwood
Jos Dunne Sledge Ward
McGeady Andrews Whelan Cox
Walters
Keane
against the Germans.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0912/1224323911986.html?via=mr

[p2011]

Traps comments after the game suggest little change from the team that started against Kaz. He mused about a 5 man midfield or a 4-4-1-1. Whether to attack the Germans or sit back(easy one to answer). Maybe McCarthy in a 5 man midfield with Whelan and Andrews(not going to happen). Sounds like a 4-4-1-1 then against Germany very similar to our formation away to Russia in the last campaign. Looking at last nights game through Trap glasses Wilson might have played his way into the team. But I still think he will go with
Westwood
Jos Dunne Sledge Ward
McGeady Andrews Whelan Cox
Walters
Keane
against the Germans.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0912/1224323911986.html?via=mr

I will despair if Trap picks this team next month. A repeat of the Euros so.... the same mistakes repeated again and again, nothing learnt. The definition of madness.

For all his strengths and limitations, picking Walters always encourages us to lump the ball to him. And what on earth does Long need to do to get into this team? The energy and interaction shown by Long and Doyle together last night was great. Will we see it in the Aviva? Like hell we will.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why is anyone surprised at this stage by a lack of change in team selection...

[Charlie Darwin]

First things first, we looked good no matter who the opposition was. Oman were obviously in friendly mode - i.e. they played some good stuff but they switched off, which Kazakhstan would never have done - but we exploited their weaknesses quite ruthlessly and really it would have been a hammering had they not had arguably the world's best shot-stoppers in goal (he's not so great from crosses though, as we discovered).

I think it's pretty clear that the position Trap hinted was up for grabs is left back, and of the two candidates I think Kelly probably shaded it, though Wilson can feel hard done by that we didn't play a good team. Nevertheless, I think Trap has unexpectedly been thrown a selection quandary by both Brady and Meyler, and of the two I think Meyler is more likely to start against Germany. I suspect we might end up with McCarthy/Whelan/Meyler in midfield with McGeady and Cox on the wings.

[DannyInvincible]

Trap says Brady won't start against Germany: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0912/337346-trapattoni-will-not-throw-brady-in-deep-end/


Trapattoni said: "I have been asked whether players who play in friendlies will play in the qualifiers immediately after before and in the case of the game against Germany, the answer is no. Absolutely no.

"We need to play with the players who know the system and who know what they can do because the Germans are strong.

"They (the likes of Brady) can be in the squad but not in the team because we have the team that played in Kazakhstan. We have to have a team that is fit and strong mentally.

"At the moment maybe it's better to have Cox than others.

"I choose the players on the basis of the job ahead. Obviously there are players in the squad who are coming back like Richard Dunne and maybe Damien Duff."

[NeverFeltBetter]

Really wish this Damien Duff business would get put to bed.

[Murfinator]

Trap says Brady won't start against Germany: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0912/337346-trapattoni-will-not-throw-brady-in-deep-end/

He's correct, getting swayed by a performance against a nothing team would be a ridiculously impressionable decision and show very low confidence in his selections.
Interesting though he mentions the Duff possibility a day after meeting with him, meaning the proposal wasn't flat out refused. It'd be a huge boost for us if we could get him back.


I think Trap has unexpectedly been thrown a selection quandary by both Brady and Meyler, and of the two I think Meyler is more likely to start against Germany. I suspect we might end up with McCarthy/Whelan/Meyler in midfield with McGeady and Cox on the wings.

I very much doubt Meyler is anywhere in the frame with all of Whelan, Andrews and McCarthy about. What might be realistic is he keeps his squad place over Gibson.

[Mr A]

Thought we looked decent but at the same time against weak opposition there were some worrying signs too. Simple passes misplaced and stupid frees given away that better opposition would have punished us for. Ant the back line looked pretty ropey at times too.

Cox sent for scans hopefully not too badly hurt.. awful pass from McGeady that lead to the challenge taking out the opposition for a wing slow maybe. (Joking BTW)

[Diarmo]

Really wish this Damien Duff business would get put to bed.

I agree. Duff will be 35 by the time WC 2014 rolls around. And it's insulting to our younger wingers that Trap and Tardelli keep making admiring glances towards him. As good as Duff is, it would be a step backwards in my opinion.

Having said that, we really missed his ability in possession and winning frees away to the Kazakhs.

[tetsujin1979]

Thinking back to the two players in central midfield last, was McCarthy playing the "Whelan" role of staying around the halfway line, breaking up play, receiving the ball and playing it forward, with Meyler playing the "Andrews" role a little further forward, pressuring the opposition midfield, and looking to shoot from distance?

[Stuttgart88]

Wweak opposition but I enjoyed the game.

I liked the way we were allowed to play a more fluent style.

Forde - not much to do
Coleman - decent and looks fluid at full-back but didn't impress enough to convince Trap I reckon
Wilson - very competent, confident on the ball and took this game in his stride while he was on
Sledge - got to every ball before his man, even when second favourite. Led the defence with authority. Nearly gave away a sucker penalty but it looked like a dive / fall from where I was
Kelly - nothing flash, just soundly competent
Meyler - happy to be on the ball and used it swiftly and efficiently. A bit too careless one a couple of occasions and followed up loose passes with lunge fouls which experienced Germans would ensure secured a booking. Very promising but Trap won't trust him unless it's a 3-man midfield.
McCarthy - similar to Meyler. Comfortable on the ball but seemed to play within his ability.
Keogh - missed great early chance and generally looked the least suited to this level.
Brady - very promising display. Very quick over short distances.
Long - beast of a player
Doyle - very good game

Notable others: for the short time he was played in position Cox looked very good, pro-active and direct. Not as good as Long but I'm happy we have him. I hope his injury wasn't bad (I've just logged in in an airport, I've read no papers).
Pearce: good at set-pieces. looked a bit Gary Doherty-like but worth another look for sure.

[Murfinator]

I agree. Duff will be 35 by the time WC 2014 rolls around. And it's insulting to our younger wingers that Trap and Tardelli keep making admiring glances towards him. As good as Duff is, it would be a step backwards in my opinion.


A step backwards to play our best player and only player who can actually retain possession? Ridiculous.
If we're serious about qualifying we need Duff, if we're not then we might as well ditch Trap and everyone over 30 and start planning for Euro 2016. Since we've only played 1 game and won it I would assume we're still serious about trying to qualify.

[Diarmo]

A step backwards to play our best player and only player who can actually retain possession? Ridiculous.
If we're serious about qualifying we need Duff, if we're not then we might as well ditch Trap and everyone over 30 and start planning for Euro 2016. Since we've only played 1 game and won it I would assume we're still serious about trying to qualify.

Within this 'system'. Several of our players are able to retain possession with their club sides, and there were good moments against Oman & Serbia.

Optimistically, I reckon that not having Duff around may expose how poor our current lineup is in possession, and may force Traps hand to adjust tactics/personnel. Like the way he dropped McGeady for Lawrence to keep possession on the right and counter the threat of Grosso/Evra.

[Diarmo]

Anyway, for some pointless and rambling player ratings.

Forde: Not a lot to do.

Coleman: Impressive running down the right hand side. Linked well with Brady and even cut inside. Bizarre seeing him in CM towards the end, but he acquitted himself well.
St. Ledger The usual. Solid at the back and threatened from set-pieces.
Kelly Did fine at CB, didn't really notice much of him at LB.
Wilson Assured in possession. Would start him instead of Ward.

Keogh I didn't really feel he offered much on the wing. Made a slightly better impression closer to goal, but I fear he's played out of loyalty than anything else.
Meyler Likes a tackle. But I'd worry about those needless free-kicks he gave away against a hardly imposing Oman midfield. Too raw to throw in against the Germans, but I'd give him another run out in the November friendly. Better than Whelan.
McCarthy Didn't impress me tonight. Must try to remember he's only 21, but I didn't see much to make me think he'll be a top player. However, did get on the ball more than most of the matches we play.
Brady Thought he looked great. Did run down a few blind alleys, but set piece delivery was top-notch. I'd chuck him in for Cox against ze Germans.

Long One of the things that impressed me about Long is his ability to come from deep. I remember him winning the ball in our own half against the Kazakhs and he continues to impress.
Doyle Nice goal.

Pearce Decent header for the goal. Not a bad debut.
Randolph Did fine. Shouts at defenders. Maybe left his line a bit early for the Oman goal.
McClean Good belter of a shot. Eclipsed by Brady.
Cox Did ok. Nothing to write home about.
McGeady
Joey O'Brien Decent in the two or three touches he had

[Jolly Red Giant]

One interesting point of note - there were more players attached to Premiership clubs playing against Oman than there were against Kazakhstan.

My assessment - V Kazakhstan - hoof the ball as long as possible and see it bounce all over the place on the astroturf. A dog with a mallet up his rear end would know that on astroturf you play the ball to feet. Once the Kazaks dropped their two central midfielders a little deeper after 5 minutes the hoofed ball was useless and we had no plan B.

My assessment - V Oman - the players on the pitch with a bit of skill actually passed the ball and the team played well. Long and Doyle are by far and away the best forward combination.

Against the Germans we will need someone in the middle who can pass the ball otherwise it will be a long night. Coleman should start at right-back - he is better than Kelly and much more effective going forward. And in relation to Duff - I think he can do a better job at left back than Ward and Wilson.

We have to get over the 'its the result that counts' stuff - its the performance that counts - if the performance is good enough then the results will match - if the performance is brutal then we will lose a lot more than we will win (or even draw).

The problem is that Trappatoni - he is stuck in the old arch right-wing conservative 1980s Italian philosophy and will not change. He brought stability to the team after Staunton but has now become a complete feter on its development and has to go.

[tricky_colour]

If you're as bewildered as me as to why we struggled with our best team against the lowly Kazakhs and yet beat Oman handily with a B team yesterday - Ramadan. The Oman players had just finished observing Ramadan and their fitness levels were not up to snuff according to their manager. Makes sense to me, the reason we played Oman at this time of year looks like a smart move from the FAI.

Well spotted, you are right about that, the Oman players have either not eaten all day or had just stuffed as much food as possible
into their bellies before the match, either way it certainly looked like one or the other, they were very poor they did not seem
to be at the races at all. Might also explain an improved second half.

[DannyInvincible]

Didn't Ramadan end nearly a month ago?

[NeverFeltBetter]

20th August I think.

Edit: Wikipedia says 18th- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan_(calendar_month)

[jbyrne]

20th August I think.

Edit: Wikipedia says 18th- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramadan_(calendar_month)

sure why let the facts stand in the way of someone trying to run down a decent enough Irish performance and win.

[Colbert Report]

I'm only repeating what the Oman manager said, he didn't say that it had ended that day, he said that it had "just recently" ended. Is three weeks enough to get back to full fitness after not eating or drinking during the day for a month during daylight hours?

[Charlie Darwin]

Athletes stay fit during Ramadan. It might not be ideal but with proper diet and exercise they should be exactly as they'd normally be. It's certainly no worse than the British and Irish players who spend their summers eating crap and drinking and then crash diet for pre-season.

[theworm2345]

Finally got to watch the match this morning...not much to say really as Oman were pretty weak but a decent enough performance and some nice goals. This is the kind of team we should be fielding in friendlies to look at young/new players.

Athletes stay fit during Ramadan. It might not be ideal but with proper diet and exercise they should be exactly as they'd normally be. It's certainly no worse than the British and Irish players who spend their summers eating crap and drinking and then crash diet for pre-season.
From personal experience, I can tell you athletes struggle mightily during Ramadan. I used to play on a Turkish team (we also had some West African Muslims) and I will tell you that during Ramadan we probably averaged at least one red card (which was not the norm) a game due to tempers being very thin and tired bodies and minds.

[paul_oshea]

Athletes stay fit during Ramadan. It might not be ideal but with proper diet and exercise they should be exactly as they'd normally be. It's certainly no worse than the British and Irish players who spend their summers eating crap and drinking and then crash diet for pre-season.

Its completely different. But given some of the opinions you have aired on here previously I'm not surprised. ;)

Its not just "they don't eat". The body clock is completely different, sleep patterns are effected, fagtigue everything.

[Charlie Darwin]

From personal experience, I can tell you athletes struggle mightily during Ramadan. I used to play on a Turkish team (we also had some West African Muslims) and I will tell you that during Ramadan we probably averaged at least one red card (which was not the norm) a game due to tempers being very thin and tired bodies and minds.
Well it's not ideal - otherwise they'd do it year-round - but a professional athlete should be able to cope and maintain a balanced diet. I'm sure they'd prefer not to and would perform better with their normal routine, but 3 weeks on they should not still be feeling the effects.

[theworm2345]

Well it's not ideal - otherwise they'd do it year-round - but a professional athlete should be able to cope and maintain a balanced diet. I'm sure they'd prefer not to and would perform better with their normal routine, but 3 weeks on they should not still be feeling the effects.
Not necessarily, I don't think they're even allowed to drink water while the sun is up, so my teammates would gargle it. It would also obviously harder at a higher latitude (such as England and Ireland) because the sun is up longer than places like the Middle East or even here in Chicago.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I've just put the match up on Irish Torrents.

[Charlie Darwin]

Its completely different. But given some of the opinions you have aired on here previously I'm not surprised. ;)

Its not just "they don't eat". The body clock is completely different, sleep patterns are effected, fagtigue everything.
I didn't say it was. I'm referring to the recovery period afterwards - if you're sticking to a balanced diet, you won't still be suffering 3 weeks later.


Not necessarily, I don't think they're even allowed to drink water while the sun is up, so my teammates would gargle it. It would also obviously harder at a higher latitude (such as England and Ireland) because the sun is up longer than places like the Middle East or even here in Chicago.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, I've just put the match up on Irish Torrents.
No, they can't drink water if they adhere to it strictly. It's not ideal practice for an athlete but the body has coping mechanisms, especially when you've been doing it most of your life.

[Junior]

As interesting as the Ramadan discussion is.......Oman were just $hite end of.

[DeLorean]

Bumping thread


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ-sWZvLL_E

[DeLorean]

Closed thread.