Irish Times article on Trap and 'player differences'

[osarusan]

Emmet Malone in the Irish times has an article here (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0906/1224323654444.html) outlining 15 examples of what he calls player differences, or falling foul, in Trap's eyes.

I know there are threads for individual players and the incidents(or non-incidents) have been discussed there, but I thought this might be a good thread for discussing the topic in more detail.

Here are a few excerpts:


1 Stephen Ireland
The then Manchester City midfielder was an inherited problem in the wake of his infamous “Grannygate” departure from the squad during Steve Staunton’s time in charge but an attempt at a rapprochement didn’t go well and the player’s public criticism of Trapattoni afterwards for supposedly taking numerous calls on various different mobile phones sealed the Corkman’s fate. Much stronger club form just might change things but as they stand, more forgiving international managers that the 73-year-old Italian might well regard him as more trouble than he’s worth.


7 Anthony Stokes
Another to have been accused at one time or another of poor attitude during his underage days, the Dubliner withdrew from the squad for the end-of-season games against Northern Ireland, Scotland, Macedonia and Italy last year because, he apparently said, he was tired. Trapattoni effectively threw his eyes up to heaven and pushed on without the talented but hugely erratic Celtic player.


12 Damien Duff
The Fulham player was unequivocally positive about the manager in interviews given after he announced his decision to retire from international football, coming across as both liking and respecting the Italian who, he said, could not have done more to keep him on board. Others disagreed and Trapattoni has been obliged to suggest that he will meet the Dubliner during the coming weeks in an attempt to change his mind.

People who are more up-to-date than I am about injuries and so on can comment on the accuracy of the other entries, but the piece about Duff stood out for me. What player difference is highlighted there? It seems that Duff decided to retire, despite Trap trying to convince him to continue. I'm not sure how Duff is falling foul of anything.

[theworm2345]

He's trying to outdo Don Givens.

[Diarmo]

Shoddy journalism. Lots of them (Ireland, Stokes etc.) are completely of the players own making, others (Duff, Treacy) are non-stories, simply made to appear more sinister. At this stage we'll have the media saying Trap has some issue with Gary Dicker for not calling him up.

However, it does show that the media has turned on Trap, and we're going to see a Kerr-style witchhunt over the next few months.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeap, must have been a slow news day;Diarmo has nailed it I reckon.

[SwanVsDalton]

Bang on Diarmo. The Shay Given one too is nothing more than speculation. And if there was no warmth in the relationship, so what? Also suggests there's a discipline problem with Clark when it's far more likely he's just low down the pecking order. Wise up Malone.

[DannyInvincible]

The media and some fans alike are desperate to manufacture a scandal out of a non-existent "communications problem", as if to suggest the wheels are about to fall off the cart, Trap has lost the dressing room and the players are on the brink of revolt. I just read this over on YBIG, for example: http://www.ybig.ie/communication-scandal-envelops-ireland-setup.1.75.blog.html

It's all a load of overblown nonsense, but, unfortunately, people allow this stuff to influence their feelings towards the current set-up. When it's bombarding them left, right and centre, mind you, I suppose it's hard to avoid. Even sensible posters here are expressing fears about the whole set-up unravelling (http://foot.ie/threads/170411-Kazakhstan-v-Ireland-Squad-match-thread?p=1624428&viewfull=1#post1624428).

Trap's English may be suspect, which is what the writers of these silly stories are only too glad to exploit, but that doesn't mean we can lazily lump a bunch of unrelated occurrences together (to cast a gloomier outlook) and attribute blame for every player issue to Trap (if even some of these "examples" Malone raises are issues!), nor does it mean he cannot command the team's respect. Every manager will naturally have positive and negative interactions with players who want to see action; these interactions form a fundamental part of the manager's job. When there are only 11 places to fill, you can't keep everyone happy, nor is it Trap's duty to keep everyone happy either, to be honest. Discipline is crucial. If a player wants to sulk because he disagrees with Trap's way, that's not Trap's fault. By the way, I'm not even referring to any one specific incident here; just speaking generally as I've sensed the foundations are being set for the witch hunt of which Diarmo warns. I'll have a more thorough read through what Malone has written in a while and see what I make of it.

[DannyInvincible]

Yeap, must have been a slow news day;Diarmo has nailed it I reckon.

Sadly, I fear this is not mere "slow news day" material. There's an anti-Trap agenda at play here.

[SwanVsDalton]

Surprise, surprise (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trapattoni-needs-actions-not-words-3221574.html) - Dan McDonnell's on it too. Seems to suggest because the players didn't jump over Gibson - a friend and colleague - they agree with him. What a nonsense. As if any player would condemn him considering he may be back in the future...

I'm also sick an tired of the likes of Stephen Ireland, Andy Reid, even Steven Reid, being brought up as if they're slam dunks for the squad - Ireland's a nutcase, Andy's been out of form for years and Steven was injured, then retired and now appears to be a career right-back. People may disagree we couldn't use them, but it's nowhere near cast iron.

[DannyInvincible]

Did other players come out and condemn Stephen Ireland or Anthony Stokes? Of course not. Footballers play football; they don't bitch about one another in the media. And passivity certainly cannot be interpreted one way or the other here. We can't just assume the players believe Gibson is right because they haven't said anything to the contrary. Careless presumptuousness from McDonnell, although I suspect he knows exactly what he's doing.


It's not unrealistic to suggest that a manager with a more persuasive, player-friendly approach would have Darron Gibson, Steven Reid, Shay Given, and maybe even Damien Duff and, yes, Stephen Ireland, at his disposal here in Kazakhstan.

Entirely unfair comment. Gibson's being terribly foolish and immature. Even his pal, O'Dea, whilst offering sympathy, said he wouldn't do what he did. Given is 36 and wishes to prolong his club-career (In fact, he was benched by Villa last week). Trap can do little about that. Duff stated that Trap very nearly convinced him to stay on despite his deeply-held intentions, so hardly a valid criticism of Trap's communication skills there; a compliment to them, if anything. I don't even know why McDonnell's mentioning (as SVD highlights) retired/injury-riddled/bit-part WBA right-back Steven Reid, and worse, Stephen Ireland, whose been self-exiled since before Trap even took over! It's a case of making lazy, lazy associations in an attempt to erect Trap's "portfolio of shame".

[DannyInvincible]

It's ridiculous, all this, actually! I can't believe the spectre of Stephen Ireland - once the Irish sporting media's hate figure; a man who could do no right - is now being used as a bat with which to beat Trap, as if Ireland has been right all along and his exclusion has always somehow been Trap's fault. How fickle and disingenuous the media can be... The fact is that Stephen Ireland simply doesn't want to play international football; nothing Trap (and Liam Brady) could have done about that.

[tetsujin1979]

The comment about Duff really does sicken me, he made it as clear as he could that his retirement had nothing to do with Trapattoni, or the performance in the Euros, and that the manager could not have done more to convince him not to retire, yet it's still suggested that another manager would still have him available?

[Spudulika]

Sadlier, McDonnell, Malone, Fanning and a number of other drinking buddies are all singing from the same hymn sheet. The Indo are leading the charge with their anti-O'Brien bile. The others are sheep. Communication problems, even the mumbling John Giles came up with this at the behest of Newstalk. Sick of this, it's been the same since Jack Charlton was no longer soup of the day. Our meeja are a disgrace.

[osarusan]

I can't believe the spectre of Stephen Ireland...is now being used as a bat with which to beat Trap, as if Ireland has been right all along and his exclusion has always somehow been Trap's fault.

Where was this?

EDIT: Sorry, thought you were referring to the IT article - you were talking about something else.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The media talk rubbish. Surely that's not 'news' in any shape or form...

[DannyInvincible]

Where was this?

OK, afford me a bit of hyperbole in order to make a heated point. :)

McDonnell suggested it's entirely reasonable to expect that a manager other than Trap would have Stephen Ireland at his disposal. That's not reasonable at all. Ireland is a self-exile and was a self-exile before Trap even took over. Trap and Brady attempted to persuade him back but Ireland was having none of it. They didn't have to bother meeting him in person. The lad simply hasn't been interested in international football for his own personal reasons, despite recent rumblings that he may be on the verge of reconsidering. Besides, if he did have a gripe with Trap, why would he express that he may be open to a return in the near future?

His inclusion in the bizarre Malone list would insinuate that Stephen Ireland is part of some general Trapattoni problem that has been "rumbling on" for quite some time now. Malone does say that other more forgiving managers "might well regard [Ireland] as more trouble than he's worth", but the general purpose of that piece, with Ireland's inclusion as someone who's supposedly taken issue with Trap in a way that justifies making a big deal out of it, is to manufacture a portfolio of shame by which to attack Trap. It appears like an attempt to paint the picture that Trap is generally at fault for a number of loosely and lazily connected issues and non-issues due to some over-riding character or communicational flaw simply by virtue of being a common denominator. He's a "common denominator" because he's the team manager who, as a fundamental aspect of his role, has to deal with all sorts of player issues. They can't just be casually lumped together to push an agenda and, as Johnny Giles would say, must be judged on their own merits.

Saw this posted in the comments section below Malone's piece:



Emmet Malone:

1. Stephen Ireland. Are you seriously making a case for this guy after all the stunts he pulled? Get a grip!

2. Stephen Reid retired "out of courtesy"? Players like Duff earn the right to retire from international football. Stephen Reid is not in that bracket.

4. McCarthy: Trap's handling of him and McClean has been spot on. Ease young players in and make them earn their place rather than risk having international duty being taken for granted.

5. Wilson: A manager simply cannot make room for everyone. We had a settled back 4.

7. Stokes is an awful footballer. Despite our lack of striking options, this man should not be anywhere near the squad.

9. Kevin Foley isn't good enough.

10. Joey O'Brien: To say that Trap's reaction was "severe" is utter nonsense. O'Brien was crocked. He simply wasn't in contention.

11. Shay: "no warmth to the relationship"? How you can contrive a conspiracy out of this one is beyond me.

12. Duff: "Trapattoni has been obliged to suggest that he will meet the Dubliner" - again, nonsense. The press shouldn't be in any position to oblige managers to do anything. Duff has been the outstanding player of the generation but the time is right for the likes of McClean, McGeady and Coleman to assume the mantle on the wings.

13. Gibson: Withdrawals for cases of "disappointment" must be nipped in the bud. He's a loss but there must be repercussions. You'd have to question the enthusiam of a guy who was content to be 7th or 8th choice midfielder at his club.

14. Hunt only made it to Poland due to the manager's loyalty. It's not a freeze-out. He's a headless chicken who has fallen down the pecking order.

15. Long's committment is unwavering. He'll always turn up for work and give it socks, even if he is occasionally a bit gobby.

A few players mentioned by Malone appear to be missing, but it mostly speaks sense to counter much of Malone's rubbish. Was that someone from here?

[Stuttgart88]

The Duff thing is just odd.

What was Clark's alleged disciplinary issue?

[Murfinator]

he (Duff) said, could not have done more to keep him on board. Others disagreed

This is the Irish Times journalism in a nutshell. Ignore what the player says and reference these unnamed "others" to support your claims. It's incredible they'd still report a claim when the player himself has flat out dismissed there being a problem. It continues to be highly ironic how the Irish medias evidence of Traps poor communication channels is littered with inaccuracies, guesswork and miscommunications.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bang on Diarmo. The Shay Given one too is nothing more than speculation. And if there was no warmth in the relationship, so what? Also suggests there's a discipline problem with Clark when it's far more likely he's just low down the pecking order. Wise up Malone.
I might be going mad and making this up (call me up, Irish Times!) but I seem to remember murmurings of some sort of indiscretion on Clark's part last year. I can't for the life of me remember what though. When was the last squad he was called up for?

The Duff one is weird. I fear Hunt might just be past it.

[jbyrne]

It continues to be highly ironic how the Irish medias evidence of Traps poor communication channels is littered with inaccuracies, guesswork and miscommunications.

exactly. how can anyone blame trap for communication problems with Gibson, for example, when Gibson told a fib when he pulled out of the Serbia friendly by claiming he was injured when in fact he had no intention of turning up again?

many of these players who have alleged problems with Trap have told many fibs and half truths in many cases. How is any manager in any walk of life supposed to deal with this behavior??

[tetsujin1979]

the Hunt one is puzzling as well, didn't Trapattoni show a text from him in the press conference before the Serbia game that he was ok with being left out of the squad?

[DannyInvincible]

I might be going mad and making this up (call me up, Irish Times!) but I seem to remember murmurings of some sort of indiscretion on Clark's part last year. I can't for the life of me remember what though. When was the last squad he was called up for?

He was last called up for the friendly against Uruguay in March last year. I think it's just a case of Trap not trusting him as a full-back whilst favouring other options in the centre, although I do recall talk of a disciplinary issue, but think that was mere media speculation.

[Wolfie]

In total agreement that pathetic and tenuous arguments have been dredged up to create a fantasy "let the credits roll" type of a rap sheet against Trap and his treatment of players.

In relation to recent debate about tactics and style of play, some of you know I've posted here for a good while and my views are honest, consistent and considered (most of the time!!).

I think there is merit in us debating our teams tactics and suggesting we can play more effectively. No more, no less.

[SkStu]

I might be going mad and making this up (call me up, Irish Times!) but I seem to remember murmurings of some sort of indiscretion on Clark's part last year. I can't for the life of me remember what though. When was the last squad he was called up?

he must have been caught playing his banjo after lights out...

Shocking article. I don't think anyone can deny there have been some communication issues, some serious, some not so but this is barrel scraping stuff.

[EastTerracer]

Collected comments from @emmetmalone on Twitter today


Piece in today's Irish Times on Trap's relationship with some of his players. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0906/1224323654444.html?via=mr (http://t.co/kUGCX4FV)

Many seeing it an attack which it's not.. simply an attempt to go through how his relationship with players has influenced the options open to him.

Given and Duff on list simply because he couldn't keep them on board and that, combined with his confusion over what their intentions were, raises questions about his relationship/communication with even big players. No attempt to suggest any more. Thought some of the summations were actually supportive but not everyone agrees which maybe raises questions about my communication skills. Decide for yourselves....

Personally think he was in the right on Ireland and A Reid, no big issue re Given & Duff...

[tetsujin1979]

interesting that he wrote a follow up piece after the online reaction to it.

[Murfinator]

In total agreement that pathetic and tenuous arguments have been dredged up to create a fantasy "let the credits roll" type of a rap sheet against Trap and his treatment of players.


This is true for some time but the question I have is why is it happening? Why are so many media outlets intent on pushing this as an issue with Trap. Are they just frustrated with the language barrier in press conferences and trying to deflect their venting as coming from the players, do they want to pursue the issue so that an English speaker is appointed with or instead of Tardelli next campaign? Or is it that our papers are becoming more anglocentric tabloid in their dealings and are looking for fault where there is none?
It's just been looking a bit forced recently, particularly with regards Duff, Given and Gibson. Two of which there was no problem to begin with and the other being entirely in the wrong to the extent that actual players in the squad are condemning what he's done.

[geysir]

It's forced these past few days because the deadline for this theme is Friday, after the game the issue becomes dormant (hopefully).
Malone's justification for this type of article is baffling as he brought nothing to this well worn out Trap communication question, except some farcical innuendoes.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the issue will rumble on as long as Gibson isn't in the squad.

[Murfinator]

I think the issue will rumble on as long as Gibson isn't in the squad.

It shouldn't, there's not reason to think anything other that the problem is entirely with Gibson's attitude.

[Charlie Darwin]

It shouldn't, there's not reason to think anything other that the problem is entirely with Gibson's attitude.
Agreed, but there is going to be a sizable number of people who will blame Trap regardless and the media will always thrive on that kind of controversy.

[Murfinator]

Agreed, but there is going to be a sizable number of people who will blame Trap regardless and the media will always thrive on that kind of controversy.

Why though? There's a sizable number of people who believe Gibson is a self-centered ass and symptomatic of the modern footballer with an attitude of entitlement and empathy towards the international game, why aren't they thriving on that? Why is it always the anti-Trap angle and never anti-player even when opinion is divided.

It was pretty remarkable after the Euro's how little flak our players got for example. All the bile was at Trap's selection and his system which is a bit ridiculous when we had JOS/Dunne/Ward/Given/Whelan in particular all playing abysmally.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd imagine "Gibson is a self-centered ass" isn't going to sell many papers. I think there are journalists who have written just that, mind, but I think the 'outrage' element tend to dominate coverage, no matter what the issue. Just listen to Joe Duffy.

[mark12345]

Said it the minute Brady left the threesome, that the communication issue was going to be huge, and so it proved. But in hindsight Trap was given an interpreter and she said what he told her to. Ultimately I believe his life values (and football values for that matter) are at odds with the modern day young footballer. Doesn't make Trap's values wrong, but at the same time he's not getting through to the players and the fans the way a manager should.

[Stuttgart88]

That's a fair point, and well made.

[Spudulika]

The media (led by Dunphy and INM) insinuated that it was lack of communication that led to Stephen Ireland not being called up, that Trap had to call him, go kiss his little toes. Andy Reid (then an overweight but reasonably decent mid-level footballer) acted the mick on an away trip and was banished, even as his form slipped and he was not a relevant inclusion in the squad, it was brought up. Next McCarthy (and getting him in an Irish shirt), McClean, Gibson. It will be endless as the meeja need this. Don't for one moment think that it's isolated. The journos covering football in Ireland have a single purpose, keep their jobs at all casts regardless of principle. They will out Joe Duffy each other with shock horror and nonsensical malice. I don't know if anyone else listened to Joe one day when someone had called in (it was a story in one of the papers) telling of their rescue of an unfortunate motorist who appeared to be drunk but was actually suffering from insulin shock. Within minutes the Liveline was filled with callers outdoing one another with tales of derring do and rescuing people who were suffering from some sort of ailment of a similar type. GAA writers write about what they know and understand, most of their football brethren are Football Manager experts and figure that getting Dundalk into the Europa League final outdoes Trap by heaps (I kept them in the Premier Division and was thrilled!).

[DannyInvincible]

Doyle insists everyone is fully behind Trap, which would seem to indicate the hoo-ha over alleged communication and man-management issues is a media concoction: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0908/336816-doyle-insists-players-are-behind-trapattoni/


Kevin Doyle today tried to play down talk of unrest and insisted the whole Republic squad are behind Trapattoni, whose position would have been under intense pressure had Doyle and Robbie Keane not scored two late goals to snatch all three points last night in the former Soviet republic.

"Everyone is together," Doyle said. "Everyone respects the manager 100% and there is no other scenario.

"Honestly, it's the same as any squad I have been involved in with Ireland. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and feeling but as far as I can see everyone is right behind the manager and hopefully that win will ease the pressure on us."

[tetsujin1979]

Doyle insists everyone is fully behind Trap, which would seem to indicate the hoo-ha over alleged communication and man-management issues is a media concoction: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0908/336816-doyle-insists-players-are-behind-trapattoni/
so did Long: http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/my-spat-with-trap-is-long-forgotten-insists-shane-3217547.html
and Andrews: http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/few-positives-but-we-still-won-206938.html
and Duff: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trap-tried-hard-to-make-me-stay-duff-3215588.html
and Noel Hunt tweeted that there's no problem between Stephen and Trapattoni: https://twitter.com/boyhunt/status/244128633059414016

A lot of tweets to me about Stephen and Trapitoni honestly nothing happened there they still talk! Just wasn't named in the squad!???

[ifk101]

16. James McClean
17. Stephen Kelly

[Murfinator]

16. James McClean
17. Stephen Kelly

Kelly dispute was manufactured by the media.
No manager on the planet would not dispute with what McClean did, I thought Trap handled it very well.

[Fixer82]

He scraped the barrel a bit to make that magic number 15 but definitely I think Trap's communication with certain players is less than desirable. While I don't agree with massaging players' egos, some players need an arm around the shoulder and some need a bollicking. It's just decent man-management. And Trap seems to have taken the Mussolini approach. Which i just don't think works with modern young footballers as much as it did in the 80s or early 90s

[paul_oshea]

In total agreement that pathetic and tenuous arguments have been dredged up to create a fantasy "let the credits roll" type of a rap sheet against Trap and his treatment of players.

In relation to recent debate about tactics and style of play, some of you know I've posted here for a good while and my views are honest, consistent and considered (most of the time!!).

I think there is merit in us debating our teams tactics and suggesting we can play more effectively. No more, no less.

HAHA.

A month is a long time in football.....

[geysir]

I'm sure Wolfie was aware that his sagely post would be lost on some :)