Petition for the Rights of all Citizens to Vote in Presidential Elections [Archive] - Page 2

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DannyInvincible

07/01/2013, 8:44 PM

Amusingly, it turns out the tricolour won't even be flying over Leinster House on Saturday afternoon as the D�il won't be in session.

http://media-cache-ec2.pinterest.com/upload/84724036710286548_eZ07eDE8_c.jpg

Mr A

08/01/2013, 9:41 AM

They should fly the Union Jack. Just to freak the buggers out.

BonnieShels

08/01/2013, 11:00 AM

I wholeheartedly agree. that would be brilliant.

Gather round

08/01/2013, 11:11 AM

They should fly the Union Jack. Just to freak the buggers out

Good point, as Union Jacks are entirely unknown in Dublin.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/World/660/371/051711_queen.jpg

Dodge

08/01/2013, 11:19 AM

There's Union Jacks flying on the Quays currently (and for the next 6 months or so)

BonnieShels

08/01/2013, 11:36 AM

Good point, as Union Jacks are entirely unknown in Dublin.

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/World/660/371/051711_queen.jpg

Union Jacks atop Leinster House these days are unknown. Stop being a spanner.

Gather round

08/01/2013, 11:45 AM

A banner spanner, you mean?

Look, you posted a witless gag, I answered it in similar style. Get over yourself.

BonnieShels

08/01/2013, 12:21 PM

A banner spanner, you mean?

Look, you posted a witless gag, I answered it in similar style. Get over yourself.

Mr A did. I merely agreed.

Come on, it would be funny to see the confusion. Ye Unionists can smile can't ye?

Gather round

08/01/2013, 12:33 PM

Come on, it would be funny to see the confusion. Ye Unionists can smile can't ye?

Er, I just did (at the real instance rather than unrealistic possibility of Jackeens waving their flag). You were the one gurning humorlessly about it.

BonnieShels

08/01/2013, 1:36 PM

Er, I just did (at the real instance rather than unrealistic possibility of Jackeens waving their flag). You were the one gurning humorlessly about it.

I'm not sure what you're taking issue with. I found it funny. You don't.

DannyInvincible

08/01/2013, 2:08 PM

BonnieShels

08/01/2013, 2:18 PM

Why are there Union flags along the Quays? Something to do with Ireland's Presidency of the Council of the EU?

Wouldn't the Union flag fly daily within the grounds of the British Embassy in Dublin? Pretty sure that's a Union flag it in the top left of this photo:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44355000/jpg/_44355981_britishembassy2_203.jpg

The flags of all EU members are flying down the Quays in Dublin. I can't figure out the order in which they are though. I thought Alphebetical but it doesnt seem so.
I'll check where the UJ is flying when I'm heading.

There's a UJ at the Brit Ambassadors gaff in Carrickmines as well.

Wolfman

23/01/2013, 5:45 PM

Look, you posted a witless gag, I answered it in similar style. Get over yourself.

On the basis of this and previous posters he's clearly trying to be a WUM. Ignore fools like this is my advice.

Gather round

24/01/2013, 7:23 AM

On the basis of this and previous posters he's clearly trying to be a WUM. Ignore fools like this is my advice

Morning Wolfie, long time no hear. All going well in Ardee?

Wolfman

24/01/2013, 5:27 PM

What are you on about? Besides often making the same troll comments you have accused others of.

Spudulika

25/01/2013, 8:53 AM

I know this is probably going to annoy the ongoing debate on pedantics and skewed visions, though a regional governor in the Urals has decided that for all events the national anthem no longer needs to be played (before public meetings, parliament etc they play it, also all football, hockey, basketball etc). His reasoning is that it is not a re-iteration of national pride, as he believes too few people know the new lyrics. Now the guy has a point (he's in Sverdlovsk/Ekaterinaburg) though it has to be passed by a regional assembly. Forums are lighting up and oddly the anti-Putin protestors (Udaltsov and co) are raging against anti-Russian sentiment from lawmakers.

Now, I'll qualify the above by saying, he's not saying rule it out altogether, just that it should be limited to set events where it will have meaning. I don't believe that it is too much different to the North, with a majority of people not really interested in the situation and a select group of anti-democratic protesters solely interested in increasing their own profile and furthering a dangerous agenda. I could be very wrong though.

BonnieShels

13/03/2017, 8:39 AM

bennocelt

13/03/2017, 9:32 AM

Great, another referendum on something that's not important :rolleyes:

DannyInvincible

13/03/2017, 10:07 AM

Given that we have a thread for it...

I'd had a feeling there was already a thread on this. Indeed, here it is. Should have looked harder. :)

Great, another referendum on something that's not important :rolleyes:

I think it's a positive step towards subverting partition and hopefully undoing the sense of abandonment felt by many northerners as a result of partition and the approach of the southern establishment to their northern compatriots ever since. Extending the vote to all citizens, be they from the north or south of Ireland, has great symbolic significance.

The president is also the Irish nation's global representative. It is only fitting that all Irish nationals have a say in his or her appointment.

Which were the other unimportant referenda, in your view?

Gather round

13/03/2017, 11:12 AM

Enda Kenny announced in Philadelphia today that the Irish government is to hold a referendum as to whether to extend presidential election voting rights to Irish citizens living in the north and abroad: http://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0312/859...-patricks-day/

A very positive development

A few quick questions if I may:

1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate? (Notionally by close to 100% if you include Northern Nationlists, maybe Unionist ****-takers, foreign-based citizens and people not currently registered but who can do so by formality?)

3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial) ;)

BonnieShels

13/03/2017, 11:28 AM

DannyInvincible

13/03/2017, 12:28 PM

A few quick questions if I may:

1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate? (Notionally by close to 100% if you include Northern Nationlists, maybe Unionist ****-takers, foreign-based citizens and people not currently registered but who can do so by formality?)

3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial) ;)

1) I'd be confident of it receiving comfortable-majority approval from the electorate. All main parties will support it.

Chris Donnelly agrees: https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/12/irish-govt-to-hold-referendum-to-give-northerners-citizens-abroad-the-vote-in-presidential-elections/

This is a move likely to be supported across the board by political parties within the southern state, though it will be interesting to see if some voices from inside and outside of the political class are raised in objection to extending the franchise.

All strands of Irish nationalism in the north have long supported this move (http://ulsterherald.com/2016/12/09/tyrone-councils-back-irish-presidential-vote/), not least during Belfast-born Mary McAleese’s 14-year tenure in office.

2) Some info here that might be of assistance: http://www.globalirish.ie/issues/how-many-irish-people-live-abroad-an-ean-factsheet/

How many Irish people live abroad? A GlobalIrish.ie factsheet

Estimating the size of the Irish community abroad is difficult. There are an estimated one million Irish-born people living abroad today; the number has been declining in recent years as outgoing migration as slowed and return migration increased.

Where do the Irish-born live?

Accurate figures are not always easy to come by. The following statistics are compiled from a number of national censuses, and refer to those born in the Republic of Ireland, unless stated otherwise.

Just under 500,000 lived in Britain in 2001. (See BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/05/born_abroad/countries/html/republic_of_ireland.stm))
156,000 in the US in 2000. (See US Census figures (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/001687.html))
About 50,000 in Australia, with 21,000 from Northern Ireland. (2006 Census)
22,800 in Canada (2001 Census (http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/topics/RetrieveProductTable.cfm?ALEVEL=3&APATH=3&CATNO=&DETAIL=0&DIM=&DS=99&FL=0&FREE=0&GAL=0&GC=99&GK=NA&GRP=1&IPS=&METH=0&ORDER=1&PID=89424&PTYPE=88971&RL=0&S=1&ShowAll=No&StartRow=1&SUB=0&Temporal=2006&Theme=72&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=))

European statistics are more difficult to find. Statistics compiled for the Harvey Report in the 1990s show:

France 16,000
Germany 16,000
Belgium 10,000
Spain 8,000
Netherlands 4,040
Italy 2,000
Sweden 1,200
Denmark 1,020
Luxembourg 1,000
Austria 600
Greece 600
Portugal 250
Finland 144

How large is the diaspora?

There are an estimated 3 million Irish passport holders – many of these would be second- or third-generation Irish people. The total number in the diaspora, however, is much larger, but more difficult to estimate. While the census process in some nations allow people to specify where their ancestors came from, this can be contentious; controversy over the ‘ethnic question’ may call results into question.

The total number has been put at 70 million by some sources. The following figures are census statistics from the nations with the highest numbers.

United States: 34.7 million reported Irish ancestry, according to the 2000 US Census (http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/facts_for_features_special_editions/009465.html) statistic. 6 million reported Scotch-Irish ancestry.
Britain: Figures on the Irish diasporic community in Britain vary widely, from an estimate of 5 million with an Irish parent or grandparent (10% of the British population) in the 1991 census, to a total of 14 million (24% of the British population) in a 2001 study (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1224611.stm). 1.2% of people in England and Wales reported themselves to be of Irish ancestry in the 2001 census, although the ethnic question was highly contentious.
Canada: 3.48 million in the 2006 census (http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census06/data/topics/RetrieveProductTable.cfm?ALEVEL=3&APATH=3&CATNO=&DETAIL=0&DIM=&DS=99&FL=0&FREE=0&GAL=0&GC=99&GK=NA&GRP=1&IPS=&METH=0&ORDER=1&PID=92339&PTYPE=88971&RL=0&S=1&ShowAll=No&StartRow=1&SUB=0&Temporal=2006&Theme=80&VID=0&VNAMEE=&VNAMEF=) (13% of the population).
Australia: 1.8 million reported Irish ancestry (2006 census (http://www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/abs@.nsf/7d12b0f6763c78caca257061001cc588/5a47791aa683b719ca257306000d536c!OpenDocument)) (9.1% of the population)
Argentina: About 350,000-500,000 Irish descendants are reported.

For more information, visit the websites listed above and
Irish Emigrants and Irish Communities Abroad: A study of existing sources of information and analysis for the Task Force on Policy regarding Emigrants. (http://www.dfa.ie/uploads/documents/taskforcestudy.pdf)

3) I assume possession of an Irish passport will be the means of proving one's eligibility to vote, so it'll probably just be the cost of your application; €80 through the express service. Further info here: https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/top-passport-questions/passport-fees/

And here, as you're living across the water: https://www.dfa.ie/passports-citizenship/passport-express/#uk

When are you applying? ;)

4) It could be perceived as a psychological blow, I'm sure. I'd be dismayed if it was rejected because southerners sought to give their northern compatriots the cold shoulder, although I'd be genuinely extremely surprised if things took such a turn. I don't see why a negative result would or should necessarily damage unity prospects though. I suppose you could interpret a negative result as a blow to the notion of national solidarity or a sentimental sense of unity, but it would be worth remembering that this is also about extending the vote to citizens living outside of Ireland, some of whom may never have been to Ireland in their lives. There may be people in the south who'd happily support political re-unification but who would take issue with extending a vote to, say, third-generation Irish citizens in the US or wherever who have never set foot in Ireland, so that may influence their decision rather than it being representative of a rejection or snub of northerners.

Gather round

13/03/2017, 2:11 PM

When are you applying? ;)

As you know I'm a pragmatist and may well apply for a Southern passport if I think I need one ;)

Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.

Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.

DannyInvincible

13/03/2017, 2:33 PM

Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.

Why do you think it may damage the office and/or state? Because it may cost a lot or do you think it would undermine integrity in some way? Don't other states confer voting rights upon their citizens living abroad? In some cases, even for parliamentary elections and policy/constitutional referenda? Has it damaged them?

Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.

Perhaps birth documents or something else would suffice to prove entitlement. I have no idea. We'll have to wait and see.

Gather round

13/03/2017, 2:49 PM

I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the vote would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.

In short, a problem arises because you are both generous in offering nominal citizenship rights but have always pragmatically resisted giving them any real effect abroad in order to placate opinion at home.

Given that this has been trailed for a few years now it's reasonable to expect that politicians and commentators should be able to answer the questions above, particularly on cost/ access, quite readily.

DannyInvincible

13/03/2017, 2:53 PM

I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the poll would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.

I see. It's a fair point. That would have the potential to breed resentment, but referenda/elections can be (internally) divisive as they are; see Brexit or Trump, for example.

BonnieShels

13/03/2017, 2:53 PM

The passport is the only cast iron confirmation available to those born abroad to prove their citizenship. I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of those wishing to exercise their franchise in a different jurisdiction to show a passport. If they can’t be bothered then tough, the bellyaching is irrelevant. I mean, they can’t vote now so they’re hardly going to punish a sitting government. It’s not an argument to even consider.

Gather round

13/03/2017, 3:04 PM

The passport is the only cast iron confirmation available to those born abroad to prove their citizenship

How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?

I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of those wishing to exercise their franchise in a different jurisdiction to show a passport

The problem isn't that it's beyond anyone's wit, but that it would be an unreasonable cost for some people.

If they can’t be bothered then tough, the bellyaching is irrelevant. I mean, they can’t vote now so they’re hardly going to punish a sitting government. It’s not an argument to even consider

You're half right. The can't be arsed (me, for example) can be ignored. The would be arsed if it doesn't impose that unreasonable cost are different.

osarusan

13/03/2017, 3:06 PM

5 million new passports is 400 million quid.

Plus say....a 'diaspora voters register' with registration fees of 50 quid. Another 250 million.

Shrewd.

Wolfman

13/03/2017, 3:57 PM

A few quick questions if I may:

1 What's the realistic result- close, unpredictable or a big win for one side or the other?

2 If it passes, how much will this increase the electorate?

3 Will people like me from that latter group have any direct cost to take part? (Such as buying a passport or a pint of green Guinness at Heathrow Airport?)

4 If it fails, is continued partition inevitable for the foreseeable future?

Victory to Vicious Sid (Votes for Irish Citizens in Orange-Unionist Sectarian Statelets in Denial)

The Diaspora will 'win'.
A lot as DI and osarusan have pointed out.
You will have to get Irish citizenship(no European airport serves 'green Guinness' FFS, that's one for the Yanks).
No, even you're not that stupid.

And WTF has 'Sid Vicious' to do with this?

As you know I'm a pragmatist and may well apply for a Southern passport if I think I need one
Why would you want to become Korean? Their diversity of cuisine perhaps?

Isn't this just a kite-flying exercise? If the referendum passes and the new electorate is 'limited' to Irish-born, it'll **** off much of the diaspora; whereas if all six million potentially eligible in Britain plus those 144 Finns- 24 for every shamrock-themed bar last time I was in Helsinki- are eligible, then it looks not merely absurd to double or treble the numbers, but damaging to the office and even the state. You'd be paying millions for the equiv of a Buzzfeed survey on Facebook.
Even if this was true(It won't), why would you care? You keep telling us Ireland is some sort of failed state.

And given your posts on here, I would pity the recipients of the equivalent on social media!

Nobody will pay EU80 just to vote for a ceremonial Prez, but many might complain if the lack of a particular passport, or any at all, bars them.
Except that's not the reason why they want a passport...

I was thinking less of the direct costs of the poll (which you could argue would be marginal as the vote would be happening anyway), more that if a large minority (or even majority) who don't live in the State vote differently from and with an impact on those who do, it not merely looks odd but creates real potential for bitter taxation/ representation rows.
A bit like unionists in the North then...

In short, a problem arises because you are both generous in offering nominal citizenship rights but have always pragmatically resisted giving them any real effect abroad in order to placate opinion at home.
Given that this has been trailed for a few years now it's reasonable to expect that politicians and commentators should be able to answer the questions above, particularly on cost/ access, quite readily.

It's really no big deal, which you would know if you were ever to go to Ireland.

How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?
By getting a passport. You're very slow on this...

The problem isn't that it's beyond anyone's wit, but that it would be an unreasonable cost for some people.
Except you could say this about any country's citizens who can't afford a passport...

You're half right. The can't be arsed (me, for example) can be ignored. The would be arsed if it doesn't impose that unreasonable cost are different.
This makes no sense even for you!

BonnieShels

13/03/2017, 4:13 PM

How's that? My birth certificate confirms my eligibility?

In your case it confirms your eligibility. But it's not you or your ilk that would have issues here. There's plenty of Nigerians or Argentine's or Finns who would have a higher burden. As they should.

But your birth cert does not in a lot of cases show your eligibility. Perhaps proof of your place on the foreign births register could well prove to be an option. But again there's ways and means why this may not have been done in the past and yet people may remain eligible for citizenship. Again, the passport comes in here as the cast-iron guarantee of your eligibility for those born outside of the island of Ireland.

The priority is to open the franchise up to other citizens without making a mockery of the robustness of our electoral system.

DannyInvincible

14/03/2017, 10:56 AM

And right on cue, unionism responds to the Irish government's proposal to extend voting rights to northern-based Irish citizens and it's as depressingly uptight, defensive, resistive and disingenuous you'd expect: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792

Unionists have warned the Irish Government that no polling stations will be set up in Northern Ireland for future Irish presidential elections.

On Sunday, Taoiseach Enda Kenny announced plans to allow Irish citizens outside the Republic to vote in future presidential elections.

Ulster Unionist MP Tom Elliott said: "I don't want polling stations set up here in Northern Ireland.

"That would be imposing on the people of Northern Ireland."

First of all, nothing is to be imposed. It is simply the extension of a choice. If unionists, or anyone else in the north for that matter, wish to opt out, boycott or ignore the whole thing, they're fully free to do so and they can continue with living their lives unaffected and as normal.

Secondly, can unionists impose a veto on the setting up of polling stations north of the border? The Irish government could surely rent out private spaces in which to set up polling stations rather than having to rely on the provision of public spaces by the northern government, no?

Thirdly, who on earth does Tom Elliott think he is? Just because he doesn't want something, doesn't mean other people must also be deprived of it. How utterly imperious and narcissistic. For Tom, it seems that nationalists can have their rights, but just so long as those rights don't offend his unionist sensibilities...

osarusan

14/03/2017, 11:08 AM

Secondly, can unionists impose a veto on the setting up of polling stations north of the border? The Irish government could surely rent out private spaces in which to set up polling stations rather than having to rely on the provision of public spaces by the northern government, no?

It wouldn't surprise me if the Irish government would need permission from the NI/UK government to conduct its business there, to be honest. Apart from embassies at least. It is their country after all.

As far as I know, most absentee voting is done by post. I don't think there is anywhere that UK citizens in Ireland can 'go' to vote - they do it by post or by proxy.

Wolfman

14/03/2017, 11:52 AM

The latter point is correct in British elections.

And similarly for certain Irish citizens in Seanad elections.

BonnieShels

14/03/2017, 3:21 PM

Australia set up polling stations in their embassies.

Obviously not an issue for us in Belfast.

I'm just shocked it was Tom Elliot because he has always shown restraint when it comes to such matters.

DannyInvincible

14/03/2017, 3:35 PM

Australia set up polling stations in their embassies.

Obviously not an issue for us in Belfast.

Does the Irish government/state have any diplomatic or ambassadorial-type presence or space in Belfast, or elsewhere north of the border for that matter? I'm not aware that it does.

I'm just shocked it was Tom Elliot because he has always shown restraint when it comes to such matters.

Ha!

BonnieShels

14/03/2017, 4:26 PM

WE have office space and a residence used by our BI Council staff (in Stranmillis I think). We have no consulates for obvious political reasons; that the political reasons are from a nationalist POV rather than not wanting to upset Unionists.

I remember Reg Empey was complaining that we hadn't opened a consuulate "like we had in other UK cities". Jog on Reg!

There was talk post-GFA about setting up a Passport Office in Belfast but that went quiet.

backstothewall

14/03/2017, 10:48 PM

A postal vote would have done me fine but i sincerely hope a polling station is set up in every decent sized town in the north now. Tom Elliott can stick his opinions up his arse.

BonnieShels

14/03/2017, 11:22 PM

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...

...The station is based at the offices of the Chinese Welfare Association at Stranmillis Embankment in Belfast.
The polling station has been organised by an electoral committee appointed by the Polish Consulate in Edinburgh.
Eva Grosman, chair of the Polish Electoral Commission in Northern Ireland, said anyone wishing to vote would need to register either through the Polish Consulate in Edinburgh or by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Poland website.
"There's a large Polish community here in Northern Ireland, we've an established number of about 30,000," Ms Grosman said.
"However, just something in the region of 1,000 people did register and express their willingness to vote in the presidential elections.
"This number indicates that perhaps some people are more involved in Northern Irish politics since many more took part in elections here in Northern Ireland rather than the Polish ones."
Registration closes at midnight on Thursday.
To be eligible to vote, you need to have registered, to be over 18 and hold a Polish passport.
This facility has been offered before on two occasions, for last year's European Elections and four years ago for the Polish Parliamentary election.

http://www.bbc.com/news/10334739

It's almost like it was a sectarian comment from poor oul Tommy.

That may be harsh from me I mean, it's not as if he's ever said things before that would be deemed as inappropriate...

The Ulster Unionist leader Tom Elliott has hit out at people waving Irish tricolours at the Omagh election count, describing them as the "scum of Sinn Fein".
He referred to the tricolour as "the flag of a foreign nations".
He was speaking at the end of the count for the Fermanagh-South Tyrone constituency where he won a seat for his party yesterday.
The Omagh leisure centre was also the venue for the West Tyrone count.
"I see many people here with flags here, many of them flags of a foreign nation," he said.
When he was heckled by some in the crowd, he said that he would expect nothing better from "the scum of Sinn Fein".

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-13323770

osarusan

15/03/2017, 7:50 AM

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...

So there is a precedent for it in NI.

I still imagine permission is needed though - but this precedent makes a refusal more difficult to justify.

BonnieShels

15/03/2017, 8:39 AM

I can imagine permission would probably be needed. But I highly doubt it would ever be refused. I mean they're unlikely to host it in a building on Sandy Row.

Anyway it's all moot... by the time 2025 rolls around we will have had our border poll.

Gather round

15/03/2017, 10:38 AM

Anyway it's all moot... by the time 2025 rolls around we will have had our border poll

I mean they're unlikely to host it in a building on Sandy Row

It's moot not because there'll be a united Ireland within eight years (there won't) but because the South has never given citizens outside the state the vote (and just might continue not to do so, for well established reasons). Let's see after the referendum.

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.

If there isn't a poll station in Sandy Row (or writ large, Bangor/ Carrick/ Banbridge/ Coleraine) is it worth getting annoyed about? Just post/ email it in.

DannyInvincible

15/03/2017, 10:40 AM

WE have office space and a residence used by our BI Council staff (in Stranmillis I think).

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

DannyInvincible

15/03/2017, 10:45 AM

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.

That it will be seen in such a way says more about those who will view it so than those who may wish to facilitate northern-based Irish nationals or those Irish nationals in the north who may wish to participate in the election of their president.

BonnieShels

15/03/2017, 10:54 AM

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

Not 100% it's in Stranmillis. But I recall that was where I thought it was a few years back. I checked the BI Council yday and found nothing myself.

Gather round

15/03/2017, 10:58 AM

That it will be seen in such a way says more about those who will view it so than those who may wish to facilitate northern-based Irish nationals or those Irish nationals in the north who may wish to participate in the election of their president

Indeed. We've long known that Unionist politicians often rely on being defensive against the real/ perceived Nationalist bogeyman (or paranoia, as one of our regulars calls it).

Any guesses on how comfortably the referendum will pass- 51/49, 60/40, 80/20?

Wolfman

15/03/2017, 11:12 AM

It's moot not because there'll be a united Ireland within eight years (there won't) but because the South has never given citizens outside the state the vote (and just might continue not to do so, for well established reasons). Let's see after the referendum.
Except they have.

Further ahead, this isn't really about precedent, more that it'll be seen as a provocative windup in way that helping Poles vote for Szczecin Council wouldn't be.
More red fish.

Indeed. We've long known that Unionist politicians often rely on being defensive against the real/ perceived Nationalist bogeyman (or paranoia, as one of our regulars calls it).

Any guesses on how comfortably the referendum will pass- 51/49, 60/40, 80/20?
They are totally paranoid in the main. And hopefully by 1690 votes!
;)

BonnieShels

15/03/2017, 11:16 AM

Interesting; I wasn't aware of this. Have you any further info? Is it definitely in Stranmillis? I can't find any mention of it online.

So yeah tis in Salubrious Malone/Stranmillis on Notting Hill. Incidentally you can't do street view on google on that street. But from aerial photos I would wager it's the new build at the bottom of the cul-de-sac backing onto the US consulate.

https://goo.gl/maps/fd4JreyvXsB2

See here also...

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/berties-bunker-a-plush-65m-hq-for-officials-26341578.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/empey-calls-for-irish-consulate-in-belfast-1.1032896

DannyInvincible

15/03/2017, 9:23 PM

Well they had no objections when the Poles set them up in 2010...

or when it was used in the European elections in 2009...

or when it was used in the Polish Parliamentary elections in 2006...

http://www.bbc.com/news/10334739

It's almost like it was a sectarian comment from poor oul Tommy.

Armagh also hosted a polling station (using booths and desks borrowed from the NI Electoral Office) for Bulgarian citizens living in the north last November so as to allow them to vote in the most recent Bulgarian presidential election: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37912120

The race to the White House is not the only presidential election taking place right now.

Bulgarians too are in the process of picking a new leader.

Nearly 7m people will go to the polls, including about 2,000 currently living in or visiting Ireland.

In Northern Ireland, the only polling station is in Armagh. On Sunday, it hosted a steady stream of Bulgarian voters anxious to have their say in the first round of what is shaping up to be quite a drawn-out process.

Rumen Radev won the first round, just ahead of ruling party candidate Tsetska Tsacheva and they will now have a run-off on Sunday.

So how has it come to be that votes cast in an Armagh community centre can influence an election so far away?

Valentina Stefanova is a Bulgarian who has been living and working in Armagh for several years.

She helped organise the polling station there, along with government representative Anastaya Milenova who jetted in from Sofia to oversee the count.

Ms Stefanova said that, while they have no official figures, they believe as many as 500 Bulgarians are living in the Armagh/Banbridge/Craigavon area and, with no postal voting system in operation, it is important that they are given their chance to have their say.

The only other polling stations in Ireland are in the Bulgarian embassy in Dublin and at Shannon.

The booths and desks were borrowed from Northern Ireland's electoral office, but there was one key difference in the ballot boxes themselves.

Bulgarian law insists that these are see-through, so out went the familiar black boxes we all know so well.

The votes cast in Armagh were also counted there before the figure was verified and sent on to Sofia.

DannyInvincible

21/03/2017, 1:44 PM

Slugger O'Toole commentator David McCann (https://twitter.com/dmcbfs) feels the referendum to extend the vote in presidential elections to northern citizens should be used as a testing ground and learning enterprise for nationalists/republicans who will be arguing for Irish unity when the time comes for that referendum: https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/03/19/nationalism-should-focus-on-presidential-voting-rights-rather-than-an-immediate-border-poll/

This vote is a chance for those wanting a border poll to test arguments and tease out voters in Southern Ireland�s desire for all island politics. It will also serve as a useful training ground for understanding a potential No side in a future referendum.

Arguments around the structure of the Irish state, who is viewed as a part of that state and what rights should be given across the island will all chime with arguments about a United Ireland.

Nationalists across the island should park the drive for an immediate border poll and focus all of their energies on getting the Presidential voting rights referendum over the line. The cool reaction in some quarters to this proposal shows that a Yes campaign will have a fight on its hands and the ability to come up with clear and convincing arguments for this proposal will be useful for future electoral battles.

As he looked back on the success of the Vote Leave campaign, Chief Executive Matthew Elliott noted how he used the No to AV campaign in 2012 as a warm up act for a potential referendum on the EU down the track. Working on voting reform helped him understand attitudes and how to win people over to your side of the argument. Many of the top figures in the successful No to AV campaign went onto to run the Vote Leave campaign.

The training they received in 2012, paid dividends for their campaign in 2016.

People who seek a border poll need to view the Presidential voting rights referendum in the same way.

The approaches, arguments and organisation will have synergies across the electoral campaigns. It is important to learn about people�s concerns and then find arguments that put them at ease.