LOI match scores w/e Monday 20th August

[BonnieShels]

It's not, but they routinely bring a bigger crowd than Bohs, who despite being our fierce local rivals can't seem to overcome the lack of a direct bus route.


Three years on and it still makes me chortle.

[pineapple stu]

Obviously, Sligo fans are at an advantage because they don't have to worry about going back to Sligo after the game.

[redarmyfaction]

Obviously, Sligo fans are at an advantage because they don't have to worry about going back to Sligo after the game.

Some have to travel back, but it is true Sligo Rovers have ,more support in Dublin than UCD and more support in UCD than UCD.

[Mr A]

The debate around league structure is always coloured by the position of the club from which people are arguing. This is despite the fact that things tend to change very quickly in this league and the closer you get to the very top it seems the more likely that you'll have an implosion. Still, clubs at the top don't want to play 'minnows'. Those at the bottom want games against the current top clubs in the hope of attracting more people to their matches and interest generally.

Ideally you'd get leadership from the FAI on this to look at the overall good of the league, but that seems unlikely, and in any case they seem to be concerned with the arguments from the top sides, especially that expanding the league will reduce quality and therefore affect the chances of Irish side in Europe. Generally, structural changes have been approached from the point of view of the premier with the first division as an afterthought, which is the wrong approach in my opinion.

As I see it, some of the arguments against a bigger premier don't really wash.

Will the quality reduce that much? I don't really think so. Generally there are some decent teams in the first and some poor ones in the premier- you'd add in some more poor ones of course, but chances are the good players would spread out a bit more and even things up. The really awful teams tend to be as much due to meltdowns as much as anything else and these have been relatively division independent (indeed probably more prevalent in the premier). I don't particularly care about European results- I used to, but once it was evident that their improvement didn't help anyone but the clubs involved I lost a fair bit of interest. And so what if there are mini leagues within the top flight? They're there already in most leagues around the world and don't do any real harm except where the number of clubs at the very top gets too small. And Irish football is pretty good in terms of having different clubs on the up at different times.

On the other hand in a bigger premier clubs would have a greater variety of fixtures meaning derbies and the like mean more, greater security in which to rebuild when necessary (mid-table obscurity isn't always a bad thing), permanent balance between home and away fixtures.

The biggest argument I see against a bigger top tier at the moment is that a one tier league doesn't feel right and may stagnate. But at the moment we're running out of clubs to keep the already pretty stagnant feeling first division going, and indeed the prospect of playing there is probably a deterrent rather than incentive to aspire to senior football for non league clubs unless they have major backing, so something needs to be done. Relatively decent clubs with good traditions can get bogged down in the first for years and wither somewhat (or a lot), which isn't healthy for the league overall. Of course, many argue that's the clubs' own fault, but then again there's always the sort of people around who'll punch a guy's teeth out and then punch him in the stomach for mumbling. Ideally the league structure might feature regional first divisions feeding into the national premier, but this would take time, will and effort to implement and I don't think that's there with the FAI currently. As I believe may have been mentioned on here in the past, the pyramid structure in Irish football is horribly dysfunctional. Is the will there to remedy this? Not really.

On a somewhat related point- I think one of the major things that needs to be addressed is to lower the cost of being a senior club. Affiliation fees, refs fees, fines etc all seriously add up and make the step up to the first very daunting even for the bigger non league clubs. For a senior club cutting to the bone and trying to rebuild, the high fixed costs make this particularly difficult. Incidentally- for such clubs a few bigger gates per season would make a hell of a difference.

Edit: As if this wasn't long enough.. meant to say that with regard to structural change I'd like to see some actual analysis done before the next one, rather than the usual gut feeling / knee jerk approach. That's fine for us on here, but not for running senior football!

Anyhoo, bit of a ramble there, thanks for for reading and may Allah guide your footsteps towards a pie of your choosing.

[sullanefc]

I'd be in favour of a larger Premier. Cork City don't get to play Limerick or Waterford an awful lot, and despite what kind of squads each of these teams possess, they will always be competitive due to it being a derby.

Ideally the league structure might feature regional first divisions feeding into the national premier, but this would take time, will and effort to implement and I don't think that's there with the FAI currently. As I believe may have been mentioned on here in the past, the pyramid structure in Irish football is horribly dysfunctional. Is the will there to remedy this? Not really.

I'd agree with all that Mr. A. On the issue of having a league below the Premier, I'd be in favour of bringing back an A championship type division underneath the Premier. I can understand Premier teams being pressed financially to field ANOTHER team, but LOI teams already have to field U19 teams and there is an U17 league on the way I believe. Could this regional league (possibly 3 regions??) not be regarded as a psuedo u21 league with some reserves allowed rather than a full blown reserve league. Aspiring future LOI teams (e.g. Carlow, Tralee, Fanad etc) would also be involved and could be alllowed to field as many over 21 players as they liked.

Another advantage to this would be that talented players who were over 19 and not quite ready for LOI premier, could ply their trade in this league as an U21 player and possibly a future reserve player until they were ready for the step up.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd imagine the latter idea would probably just compromise the integrity of the U19 league.

[sullanefc]

I'd imagine the latter idea would probably just compromise the integrity of the U19 league.

How? Where do 20 year olds that are not quite good enough yet for Premier LOI go to?

[nigel-harps1954]

I imagine that most teams used the A league as a underage type team anyway with a few fringe players. I know Harps did this. I'd be in favour of a one team Premier and a regionalised A championship below it.

Imagine an 18 team Premier. Below that North/South, 9 reserve teams and 3 non-league making 2 divisions of 12.

[Charlie Darwin]

How? Where do 20 year olds that are not quite good enough yet for Premier LOI go to?
That is a problem but I don't think clubs at the moment have the numbers to be fielding another team between U19 and senior level.

[Charlie Darwin]

Emmett Malone in the Irish Times more or less confirms what we know: FD teams are in favour of a merger and the PD teams are against. Shamrock Rovers are opposed despite the relative gains they'd make, presumably because overall income would decline (in the short term): http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0824/1224322861559.html

[NeverFeltBetter]

Waterford are going to walk away? Really?

The idea that the FAI press ahead with what could possibly be just 6 teams in the First Division next year is crazy. Not mad about the idea of a split single tier either.

[nigel-harps1954]

Anyone else have a strange feeling there will be some relegation this year from the Premier after all?

We could have a Maxi all over again.

[gufc2000]

Any of the older fans on here have many memories of what a single tier 16 team division was like?

Were the attendances much different to today, and was there much interest from teams near the bottom as the season progressed despite there being no relegation?

[Battery Rover]

Any of the older fans on here have many memories of what a single tier 16 team division was like?

Were the attendances much different to today, and was there much interest from teams near the bottom as the season progressed despite there being no relegation?


I grew up with the one division and the reserve division but it was in a different time without the blanket coverage of sport that is available now. In that time there was nothing else to do other than attend a match on a Sunday afternoon after probably watching one of the local junior sides earlier in the morning so attendances while greater it was a different era but still had their up and downs depending on success.

An example of crowds fluctuating was the second year we won the league I believe it was almost over just after Christmas and people werent turning up for games as the league was won or to really show how fickle support could be in the season following out first ever league success after a few games we were laying 4th and half the support was calling for Turleys head.

In my opinion we have no choice but to go with one division and under 19 / 17s in the present climate as clubs are slowly disappearing into stagnation in this First Division with match sponsorship with very little return for the sponsor becoming harder to get.

One thing with one division is how do they manage licensing for clubs not at Premier Standard yet.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Well, who is that? Limerick will be fine once the new ground is completed. I think Waterford (though is there financial issues for them?) and Longford are fine. Terryland is there for a Galway club, whoever it is. So, Finn Harps, Wexford and Athlone? I can't remember if they got PD licenses.

[L.T.F.C.]

We've always got a premier license, except for 2009 I think when we mistakenly went for a first license. Financially we're sound enough for the forseeable, but most clubs are a couple of bad decisions away from ruin.

[redobit]

Whichever structure they put in place there will most likely be a u19 league with no reserve teams, due to the cost. They need to think about allowing maybe 2 senior players on the pitch at any one time in an u19 league. It wOuld be a good way of getting 1st team players some game time as they come back from injury.

[blue til i die]

Well, who is that? Limerick will be fine once the new ground is completed. I think Waterford (though is there financial issues for them?) and Longford are fine. Terryland is there for a Galway club, whoever it is. So, Finn Harps, Wexford and Athlone? I can't remember if they got PD licenses.

No there isn't.

A First Division with eight teams this season is ridiculous, that moving to a six or seven would be catastrophic to those 6/7 teams.

[Partizan]

Mervue and Salthill will not be paying senior football next season which could very well force the FAI's hand.

[Lim till i die]

Mervue and Salthill will not be paying senior football next season which could very well force the FAI's hand.

To a far greater extent than John O'Sullivans empty threats anyway.

It's going to be an 18 team league or remain as an 12 and an 8 for another year.

There's arguments to suggest both would be most likely.

The attendances thing is an absolute red herring as well, from both sides of the argument.

[Partizan]

To a far greater extent than John O'Sullivans empty threats anyway.

It's going to be an 18 team league or remain as an 12 and an 8 for another year.

There's arguments to suggest both would be most likely.

The attendances thing is an absolute red herring as well, from both sides of the argument.

What if Mervue and Salthill withdraw which in likelihood will? will you still be insisting on the present set up which is farcical to begin with. Its not so long ago that Limerick fans were crying out for this much needed change.

The present set up is simply unsustainable. Where is the logic in denying Finn Harps and Derry City 2 derbies a year garnering the much needed cash that would make a big difference to their respective seasons.

[Lim till i die]

What if Mervue and Salthill withdraw which in likelihood will? will you still be insisting on the present set up which is farcical to begin with. Its not so long ago that Limerick fans were crying out for this much needed change.

Where am I insisting on anything?! :bulgy:

I said it will either go one division or stay the same for another year and that there's arguments for both to be most likely......


The present set up is simply unsustainable.

At the moment there's very little to suggest a new set up would be any more sustainable than the current set up.

Because the clubs are to a large extent ran by ( largely well meaning) daws who don't know their arse from their elbow and/or are bought and paid for by John Delaney.


Where is the logic in denying Finn Harps and Derry City 2 derbies a year garnering the much needed cash that would make a big difference to their respective seasons

Where's the logic in denying Rochdale a derby with Man United?!

Where's the logic in denying Barnet a derby with Arsenal?!

Where's the logic in denying Gateshead a derby with Newcastle?!

You're familiar with the concept of a league structure yes??

[sullanefc]

If Mervue and Salthill drop out and GUST come in, then as it stands, there will be a 12 team premier and a 6 team 1st. For those that say a single division league is unsustainable, then a 6 team 1st division is even more unsustainable.

Some people say that having 2 divisions is important as the threat of relegation keeps clubs competitive and honest in their endevours. But the becomes a moot point if you don't have enough teams to populate 2 divisions. At the current rate of losing clubs, we might have only 10 teams left in total in a few years. What happens then, do we have a premier of 6 and a 1st of 4 teams JUST to maintain 2 divisions?

I think it was Pat Devlin who made the point in the Independent article above that the big clubs need the small clubs to form a league and he is right. With the current number of teams that we will probably have next season, then an 18 team league is the only plausible and logical way forward.

[Lim till i die]

Can always wedge in two more teams for an eight team first.

If they want.

[sullanefc]

Can always wedge in two more teams for an eight team first.

If they want.

Who?

Even if they did get 2 more teams, an 8 team league is still farcical IMO. If there is to be 20 LOI teams and if we must have 2 divisions, then 2 10's would be better IMO.

[nigel-harps1954]

Can always wedge in two more teams for an eight team first.

If they want.

Just because Limerick might actually get promoted this season ;)

[Sean South]

Any of the older fans on here have many memories of what a single tier 16 team division was like?


Sh*te

[Lim till i die]

Who?

Cobh and whoever, tis easily done if the FAI have the will, witness Kildare, Fingal, SD, Dublin City, Tralee and Carlow in the A League etc, etc, etc, there's a long history of clubs being used when it suits.


If there is to be 20 LOI teams and if we must have 2 divisions, then 2 10's would be better IMO

It would.

But it can't happen next season because the promotion and relegation has been set in stone.

Try to relegate two extra clubs.

Spend pre season in and out of the high court/funny pages.

Now that's farcical.


Just because Limerick might actually get promoted this season ;)

My feelings on the whole thing have been clear on here for quite some time in fairness, I've done threads on it.

I'd be in favour of one main division, IF it was done correctly.

I just don't think the "we want one division because we need the money" argument holds much water. Nor does the "we want two divisions because Pats have 300 more away fans than Longford" argument while I'm at it.

Both arguments stem from the fact that the clubs are in large part a shambles. And while the clubs are a shambles, you can have one division of twenty, two divisions of ten, three divisions of six and a third or four divisions of five and the league will still be a jokeshop.

There's far bigger issues than the league structure to be dealt with.

[gufc2000]

Most likely you will have:

Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
St Pats Athletic
Shelbourne
Bohemians
Cork
Derry
Drogheda
Bray
UCD
Dundalk
Limerick
Longford
Waterford
Athlone
Finn Harps
'A Galway club'
Wexford

Thats 18. Cobh Ramblers have a team competing in the Elite Division of the U19 League. Surely this team is there to build a platform to regaining a senior team.

We've had potential clubs like Carlow, Fanad, Tralee, Castlebar, Tullamore, Portlaoise.

We've lost Monaghan, Kildare and Kilkenny.

Letterkenny have entered a team in the U19 League and apparently LOI ambitions.

There are no shortage of clubs to have two reasonably sized divisions. However, the astronomicaal cost of running an amateur club in the First Division is driving clubs away. The FAI are going nowhere until they assess affiliation fees, referee fees and fines. I mean it's ridiculous the cost of entering a team in the league, given the awful prize money on offer. You need to finish in the top half to at least get your money back.

[Olander]

Mervue and Salthill will not be paying senior football next season which could very well force the FAI's hand.
Why not?

Just curious, have not heard the same.

[Trainee]

Why not?

Just curious, have not heard the same.

Fai have said that their will be only one Galway club in the league next season.

Talks between Fai, Salthill, Mervue & GUST still ongoing

[Trainee]

They should try one league for 3 years.In the meantime FAI should try and recruit new team to a regionalised First div(easier to get new teams if it is regionalised as the cost for teams will be lower).

In 3 years time reduce the premier league down to 12. For the teams who get relegated from the premier league they will join the new clubs in a regionalised first div.

Run the first Div like the A league was, have groups, then have quarter finals, semi finial, and a final

Last in premier gets relegated, 2nd last plays runner up in First in a playoff.

This will only work if new teams come on board so thats why it will take a few years

[bluewhitearmy]

They should try a one team premier for 3 years.In the meantime FAI should try and recruit new team to a regionalised First div(easier to get new teams if it is regionalised as the cost for teams will be lower).

In 3 years time reduce the premier league down to 12. For the teams who get relegated from the premier league they will join the new clubs in a regionalised first div.

Run the first Div like the A league was, have groups, then have quarter finals, semi finial, and a final

Last in premier gets relegated, 2nd last plays runner up in First in a playoff.

This will only work if new teams come on board so thats why it will take a few years

Wouldnt be a very long season.

[Trainee]

Wouldnt be a very long season.

Cheers for that - edited post

[sligoman]

I'd be in favour of a one team PremierWould certainly cut down on travel expenses, suppose you want Harps to be that team so ye can win it every year? :P

[nigel-harps1954]

Would certainly cut down on travel expenses, suppose you want Harps to be that team so ye can win it every year? :P

Easy prize money and all that.

[geezer]

Fai have said that their will be only one Galway club in the league next season.

Talks between Fai, Salthill, Mervue & GUST still ongoing


a man came down from the moon, spent an afternoon on Galway, he listened , he was a nice man seemingly,

diddly squat since. its the biggest long fingering project of the year to allow the league dream up some other daft variant of sd galway. At the rate of pace of this process there will be 2 days to prepare a club for re entry to the league and thats if we are lucky



There is a cute hoor 2 man committee in Galway deciding whats best for Galway as long as it suits their personal ambitions.

[Sam_Heggy]

Most likely you will have:

Shamrock Rovers
Sligo Rovers
St Pats Athletic
Shelbourne
Bohemians
Cork
Derry
Drogheda
Bray
UCD
Dundalk
Limerick
Longford
Waterford
Athlone
Finn Harps
'A Galway club'
Wexford

Thats 18. Cobh Ramblers have a team competing in the Elite Division of the U19 League. Surely this team is there to build a platform to regaining a senior team.

We've had potential clubs like Carlow, Fanad, Tralee, Castlebar, Tullamore, Portlaoise.

We've lost Monaghan, Kildare and Kilkenny.

Letterkenny have entered a team in the U19 League and apparently LOI ambitions.

There are no shortage of clubs to have two reasonably sized divisions. However, the astronomicaal cost of running an amateur club in the First Division is driving clubs away. The FAI are going nowhere until they assess affiliation fees, referee fees and fines. I mean it's ridiculous the cost of entering a team in the league, given the awful prize money on offer. You need to finish in the top half to at least get your money back.

The Irony of a Galway United fan looking to add a second and third Donegal side into the LOI.

[gufc2000]

The Irony of a Galway United fan looking to add a second and third Donegal side into the LOI.
Didn't propose that all 3 should be there at once, far from it! Know first hand the kind of problems it can generate. It just shows the interest is there, but while the costs remain as high as they are, there's little or no chance of new teams putting their futures on the line and joining the league.

[bluemovie]

Would certainly cut down on travel expenses, suppose you want Harps to be that team so ye can win it every year? :P

I still wouldn't fancy their chances

[marinobohs]

I still wouldn't fancy their chances

....might back them each way though :o

The whole argument here appears to be that the move to a single Division is to "save" a number of First Division clubs. This presumably predicated on the "fact" that all current Premier Division clubs are fine and sure any loss would be no problem to them. Mention of Sporting Fingal, Monaghan or Galway Utd is met with "sure that was different".

The REAL fact is unless the available resources are increased then some clubs may not survive. Redistributing current revenues may simply change which club dies.

Another victory for the Me Fein brigade of LOI :rolleyes:

[marinobohs]

Is this thread morphing into the other thread on League format ? perhaps Mods can cut and paste please to prevent duplication (or posters like me stick to right thread :o) ?