Games of the XXX Olympiad - London 2012

[Real ale Madrid]

Just thought I would start a discussion thread regarding the upcoming games, as seen as they have just kicked off with GB v New Zealand in the women's football.

I have been trying to compile a list of all Irish Olympic medal winners, both pre and post 1924, the list pre 1924 is incomplete but the following are our medal winners to date representing Ireland:

edit - if anyone knows of a list of pre 24' medal winners then please PM that info, cheers

1924 Amsterdam
Pat O'Callaghan, Athletics Hammer, Gold

1932 Los Angeles
Pat O'Callaghan, Athletics Hammer, Gold
Bob Tisdell, Athletics, 400m Hurdles, Gold

1952 Helsinki
John McNally, Boxing Bantamweight, Silver

1956 Melbourne
Ron Delaney, Athletics, 1500m, Gold
Fred Tiedt, Boxing Welterweight, Silver
John Caldwell, Boxing Flyweight, Bronze
Fred Gilroy, Boxing Bantamweight, Bronze
Anthony Byrne, Boxing Lightweight, Bronze

1964 Tokyo
Jim McCourt, Boxing Lightweight, Bronze

1980 Moscow
David Wilkins and James Wilkinson, Sailing Flying Dutchman, Silver
Hugh Russell, Boxing Flyweight, Bronze

1984 Los Angeles
John Treacy, Athletics, Marathon, Silver

1992 Barcelona
Michael Carruth, Boxing Welterweight, Gold
Wayne McCullough, Boxing Bantamweight, Silver

1996 Atlanta
Michelle Smith, Swimming - 400 free, 400 IM, 200 IM, Gold - 200 Butterfly, Bronze

2000 Sydney
Sonia O'Sullivan, Athletics 5000m, Silver

2008 Beijing
Kenneth Egan, Boxing Light Heavyweight, Silver
Paddy Barnes, Boxing Light Flyweight, Bronze
Darren Sutherland, Boxing Middleweight, Bronze

Let’s hope we can add to the above tally over the next few weeks, although while we have quite a large team, its hard to see anyone apart from our Boxers add to the above tally. The very best of luck to them all.

So, what are people most looking forward to?
Myself?- its child in a sweet shop time, 2 weeks is almost too short - with the BBC having 24 channels going all day every day, you are bound to get more event specific coverage than ever before, so I am most looking forward to watching the Basketball, tennis, football and things like that, rather than having to sit through every gymnastics live session like is normal.

Obviously the swimming and athletics are going to get the most coverage globally.

Here's to a great few weeks.

[Dublin12]

Why don't we have a football team there?, could we not have put out an Eircom league 11, couldn't be any worse than the other lot in Poland.

[Schumi]

Why don't we have a football team there?

Didn't qualify.

[bennocelt]

Was surprised to see Brazil has never won a gold in the men's football, wow! Looking at the teams and squads - fancy Uruguay at 7.8 to win it, 4s to get to the final and 11.5 a spain-uruguay final - (all betfair) assuming they beat brazil in the semis

[Dublin12]

Didn't qualify.

I didn't even know we had a team!, I never heard of any qualification games either!.

[Real ale Madrid]

I didn't even know we had a team!, I never heard of any qualification games either!.

European U-21 championships is used as a qualifier - you have to qualify for that and then make the Semi's.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Only 3 European teams made it;Spain, Switzerland & Belarus made it, the top 3 in the U-21's? Brits only in as hosts...

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/olympics/soccer/2012/0725/330609-north-korea-apoplectic-after-flag-clanger/

Perhaps someone in the Organising Committee should get a new 'Korea' advisor...

[ramondo]

Ah, here we go again. I've been bangin on about this since Athens, Another-Pathetic-Olympics (http://foot.ie/threads/17047-Another-Pathetic-Olympics) but sadly it looks like nothing's changed.

Yesterday saw 2 Irish swimmers in the heats (pure chance, as there were Aussies in the same races), and my daughter got excited because she now recognises the flag. I don't know whose embarrassment was greater: mine at the so-obviously-out-of-their-depth performances, or my daughter's embarrassment for me for being subjected to it in front of the family.

Why do we keep doing this? The only exception I can see would be where someone young has real potential at future olympics and the experience would be worth it.

BTW - the length of time between Pat O'Callaghan and Bob Tisdall's gold medals at LA in 1932 was about an hour.

Between Ronnie Delaney (Melbourne) and Michael Carruth's (Barcelona) gold medals there were 36 years.

On yesterday's performances we may be looking at a similar timescales...

[Real ale Madrid]

Ah, here we go again. I've been bangin on about this since Athens, Another-Pathetic-Olympics (http://foot.ie/threads/17047-Another-Pathetic-Olympics) but sadly it looks like nothing's changed.

Yesterday saw 2 Irish swimmers in the heats (pure chance, as there were Aussies in the same races), and my daughter got excited because she now recognises the flag. I don't know whose embarrassment was greater: mine at the so-obviously-out-of-their-depth performances, or my daughter's embarrassment for me for being subjected to it in front of the family.

Why do we keep doing this? The only exception I can see would be where someone young has real potential at future olympics and the experience would be worth it.

BTW - the length of time between Pat O'Callaghan and Bob Tisdall's gold medals at LA in 1932 was about an hour.

Between Ronnie Delaney (Melbourne) and Michael Carruth's (Barcelona) gold medals there were 36 years.

On yesterday's performances we may be looking at a similar timescales...

This post sums up everything thats wrong about the Irish sporting public imo.

Pipes up once every 4 years to complain about sub-standard performance , yet takes no interest whatsoever in the sports themselves in the interim.

I mean you could have at least named the two swimmers who "embarressed" you yesterday morning.

On the same day there were some really good Irish performances in Sailing and in the K1 Canoe and well as wins for Chloe Magee in Badminton and Adam Nolan at welterweight - no mention of them!

As for the games themselves - highlights of the weekend ?

Probably too many to mention but the BBC coverage is fantastic, great to see somebody other than a Team GB athlete win the Men's Road Race on saturday - Spain out of the football tournament, Italy's ten with the last arrow to win the Men's team event in the archery also was a standout moment.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, what he said.

Why do people make such tedious statements about Irish sporting competitors? They might not be 'world-beaters', but they're generally our best. Be happy they got there and are competing...

[ramondo]

This post sums up everything thats wrong about the Irish sporting public imo.



For me, Sonia O'Sullivan's "delight" (and everyone else's) at her silver medal performance in Sydney 2000 in a race she should have won sums up everything that's wrong with Irish athletes' attitudes. (The Szabo drug allegations didn't come out until later.)

It's more mental than physical. They don't have the killer instinct. Some money needs to be invested in sports psychology. As I've said before, I'm not expecting loads of gold medals, just a bit more mental preparedness. So many of our athletes seem to fall apart on the big stage with performances way below what they're capable of. I intentionally didn't mention names, but since you ask, Grainne Murphy's performance in finishing WELL last and 10 seconds below her personal best seemed particulary poor.

[passinginterest]

Grainne Murphy's performance in finishing WELL last and 10 seconds below her personal best seemed particulary poor.

The girl was suffering from food poisoning and probably shouldn't have competed at all. She's had to pull out of her event today. While it's dissappointing that the swimmers haven't been at personal best levels they're still competeing at elite level and finishing in the top 30 or so. If every country only sent medal contenders most of the events would only have about 5 or 6 people taking part. We've got serious medal chances in boxing, a decent chance in sailing and an outside chance in the canoeing hopefully some will exceed expectations in other events too.

[Real ale Madrid]

For me, Sonia O'Sullivan's "delight" (and everyone else's) at her silver medal performance in Sydney 2000 in a race she should have won sums up everything that's wrong with Irish athletes' attitudes. (The Szabo drug allegations didn't come out until later.)

It's more mental than physical. They don't have the killer instinct. Some money needs to be invested in sports psychology. As I've said before, I'm not expecting loads of gold medals, just a bit more mental preparedness. So many of our athletes seem to fall apart on the big stage with performances way below what they're capable of. I intentionally didn't mention names, but since you ask, Grainne Murphy's performance in finishing WELL last and 10 seconds below her personal best seemed particulary poor.

Sorry now, but you are talking complete and utter rubbish re. Sonia

Interesting you picked Sonia to have a go off though. Without question the greatest athlete this country has ever produced and possibly the greatest female sportswomen we have ever had.
8 time medallist at major championships inc 5000m world champion.
Dual world cross country champion.
Dominated female middle distance running in the mid 90's.
Imagine what she could have achieved with some of ramondo's killer instinct.

Fair played to you for looking up Grainne Murphy's name. A triple European medallist at just 17 years of age. ( but also seemingly lacks the killer instinct ) It seems that her viral infection that has dogged her preparation has been more problematic than we have been led to believe.

[bennocelt]

Am i the only person who wasnt overly impressed with the opening ceremony? Maybe as I get older I dont have the stamina for what is essentially a gloried sporting version of the Eurovision. Too long and the live music was rubbish
But having said that, am really enjoying the sport on the box. Who ever know Archery could be so exciting, kind of like a rich man's darts, the football has plenty of shocks, and it was great to see the French team win last night in the swimming (talk about heart). Collected my tkt to see Korea v Gabon for Wednesday, will try and fit into my old red 2002 Korea top, and am looking forward to singing the songs (tellybingo 123, and pis ed in korea). Am a little disappointed about the empty seat fiasco as would have loved to bring the wife to a few of the sports but all the cheap stuff sold out quick.

As for the Irish team, well tbf if we don't seriously invest then we shouldn't expect a whole lot tbh

[ramondo]

Sorry now, but you are talking complete and utter rubbish re. Sonia

Interesting you picked Sonia to have a go off though. Without question the greatest athlete this country has ever produced and possibly the greatest female sportswomen we have ever had.

Yet no Olympic gold, which in my book beats a world championship by a country mile.

Okay, perhaps I went too far. But my point is, in general, even taking our population into account, our record is poor. What puzzles me is the apparent inability of so many to see this.

(BTW - Amsterdam was 1928)

Summer Olympics medals won by selected countries since 1924, excluding those won in 1936 as we didn't participate.

Denmark = 118
New Zealand = 87
Norway = 85
Austria = 56
Ireland = 23 (*including Smith's dodgy 4)
Portugal = 21

[Spudulika]

Olympics affect Irish people like Wimbledon. We seem to forget that there are events going on each and every week but only one thing matters. We are lucky in boxing to have a decent system which has developed of its own accord until Dom O'Rourke and others took over. We have some very good young tennis players coming through but this is down to one man (Garry Cahill) begging, stealing and borrowing to get something happening. The OCI have set down long terms goals and in fairness the SC prefer to back medium-long term projects. People will always whinge, but we will improve. I'm happy with our boxers performance. Eoin Rheinisch did well, the sailors did well, but I'd rather our swimmers trail than stay up with the "natural" freaks up at the top. We have so many drugs in Ireland, just not the right ones.

[Real ale Madrid]

, the sailors did well, .

Annalise Murphy has won Race 1 of the women's laser. A serious medal prospect.

Edit - has now won race 2 as well! Sensational!

[Mr A]

Am i the only person who wasnt overly impressed with the opening ceremony? Maybe as I get older I dont have the stamina for what is essentially a gloried sporting version of the Eurovision. Too long and the live music was rubbish


Agreed. I thought it started well and got a bit boring as it went on. Not a good thing when you then get to watch 208 teams walk out one after the other.. yawn.

As for the games.. enjoying them way more than I thought I would. I suspect I'm always like that though!

[SkStu]

Watching the Womens Weightlifting earlier... Some impressives snatches on display.

[OwlsFan]

Probably too many to mention but the BBC coverage is fantastic.

Perhaps it's just me but I am very disappointed that they don't show the medal ceremonies (unless a Brit is involved). It would be so much more entertaining than Gary Lineker andvformer Olympians wittering on about something. What would people think if the World Cup Final was played and then Lineker interviewed Bobby Charlton while the presentation was being made in the background? RTE are somewhat similar as well :(

[peadar1987]

Annalise Murphy has won Race 1 of the women's laser. A serious medal prospect.

Edit - has now won race 2 as well! Sensational!

Annalise is a demon in the breeze, she's insanely fit, but we've seen today she can struggle when it gets light. Still, it was very tricky conditions, patchy and shifty, lots of people up and down. Windy forecast for the next few days so if her confidence is still intact (and it should be), we can expect a lot more from her. Good to see an Irish sailor really competing at the top, it would be great to see Gerbil Owens do well in the 470 as well.

[Eminence Grise]

I hope some of you find this illustrated, educational article as revealing as I did!:drool:

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/photos/beach-volley-what-do-those-hand-signals-mean-slideshow/

The source is fine, but some workplaces may find it a little nsfw.

[Macy]

It would be so much more entertaining than Gary Lineker andvformer Olympians wittering on about something.
I don't know, I've really enjoyed swimmers and rowers analysing cycling.

Laughable lack of comment on the hometown decision in last nights boxing.

[bennocelt]

I don't know, I've really enjoyed swimmers and rowers analysing cycling.

Laughable lack of comment on the hometown decision in last nights boxing.

Got another one today,lol - gotta love olympic boxing, you really never truly know who the hell has won

[peadar1987]

For me, Sonia O'Sullivan's "delight" (and everyone else's) at her silver medal performance in Sydney 2000 in a race she should have won sums up everything that's wrong with Irish athletes' attitudes. (The Szabo drug allegations didn't come out until later.)

It's more mental than physical. They don't have the killer instinct. Some money needs to be invested in sports psychology. As I've said before, I'm not expecting loads of gold medals, just a bit more mental preparedness. So many of our athletes seem to fall apart on the big stage with performances way below what they're capable of. I intentionally didn't mention names, but since you ask, Grainne Murphy's performance in finishing WELL last and 10 seconds below her personal best seemed particulary poor.

I think that Ireland suffers from not having a national obsession with a sport that's in the Olympics. If GAA was in there, or rugby, or horse racing, we'd have a lot more medals in the bank. Countries like Austria, for example, 14 of their medals have been in canoeing, which is unsurprising considering their topography. They also had 17 medals before Ireland was even an independent state.

But in the end it all comes down to money. Some of the set-ups they have in other countries are incredible, everything is joined up from the very bottom to produce top athletes, which is something we don't have. Personally, I think there should be free sports clubs available for every single child in the country, with as many sports as possible on offer, not just a choice between gaelic and hurling, with the possibility of football if you live in a city. The benefits would extend far, far beyond the Olympics.

Unfortunately, we had the money and the chance to invest in something like that, with a real, lasting, positive legacy for the country, and our Dear Leaders spunked it all away. Nice one lads.

[shakermaker1982]

The boxing has been a shambles so far. Incompetent judging and some of the refs have been a disgrace. Fingers crossed the Irish lads don't come across any Team GB boxers or they'll be going home.

[peadar1987]

Annalise recorded a 2nd and a 10th today, now lying in second overall 1 point behind Evi van Acker of Belgium, and 2 ahead of Marit Bouwmeester of the Netherlands, with two normal races tomorrow, and the double points medal race on Monday. Still in with every chance of getting a medal if it stays windy, but I think Bouwmeester and van Acker have the beating of her if the wind drops.

[backstothewall]

We have no facilities. Until that changes it is hard to see when this will change. Take cycling for example. We restrict our chances to only 8 of the possible 18 medals because we don't have a velodrome. Nor do we have a rowing lake, or a white water facility, and we only have 1 50 pool (with one under construction in Bangor). That leaves us with events like badminton and archery that are dominated by the far east, and events we just don't have the weather for.

Hard to see what chance we will have in 20 years time if the Chinese decide they want the boxing and sailing medals.

Would a running track fit in Croke Park? Is there any way we could get the European Championships?

[DannyInvincible]

Whilst an admirable ideal at its most basic, the notion that it is the taking part that counts is ingrained in our national sporting psyche.


Would a running track fit in Croke Park? Is there any way we could get the European Championships?

Croke Park's pitch dimensions are 144.5 by 88 metres. As far as I can make out, 176.91 by 92.52 meters are required for an Olympic-standard running track, so not viable.

[Spudulika]

Really disappointed with the boxing. Adam Nolan was very close in the 1st 2 rounds of his fight but was judged to be well behind. The ref warned him, early, to punch correctly - when he did, and he was taken out of his stride. Some awful officiating and a couple of refs have been suspended I believe. Happy to believe that we'll get 3 medals from boxing.

Ireland will never be a world power in sports other than those which we're genetically and socially well aligned to - boxing and, well, boxing. We could do well in any sports but, as btw says - it's down to facilities.

[DannyInvincible]

Not trying to be facetious as I know the west African physique is well suited to short-distance sprinting whilst the east African physique is suited to long-distance running, but which are the sports to which we are more genetically-aligned?

[Eminence Grise]

Boxing seems to be the most likely in terms of medals. At a guess, I'd imagine that, whatever about genetics, out cultural heritage (maintained by disgracefully low funding of sport) is towards sports that require power and physicality, rather than finesse and precision, perhaps because the latter generally require expensive personal equipment and infrastructure whereas the former only need a pair of gloves, a ball, a flat field, etc.

One reason why we don't have a fencing history for instance (last Irish olympian was in 1992) is that we never had a royal court. The powers in world fencing were traditionally Italy, Germany, Russia, Hungary, France and Spain, who did. But the rules for pistol duelling are called the Tipperary Rules - the power of the bullet versus the precision of the point, I suppose.

Poetry (Oliver St John Gogarty, 1924) and art (Jack B Yeats, 1928) were areas where we might have won a few more medals, but they were discontinued!

[Gather round]

We have no facilities. Until that changes it is hard to see when this will change. Take cycling for example. We restrict our chances to only 8 of the possible 18 medals because we don't have a velodrome. Nor do we have a rowing lake, or a white water facility, and we only have 1 50 pool (with one under construction in Bangor)

So a Bangor swimmer might medal like a Maghera cyclist or Coleraine rowers?

[Spudulika]

Not trying to be facetious as I know the west African physique is well suited to short-distance sprinting whilst the east African physique is suited to long-distance running, but which are the sports to which we are more genetically-aligned?

Genetically there is no advantages for boxing - it's down to weights. If you look at weightlifting it's got alot to do with physical structure (genetics) and a heap of "help". Same with sprinting, long distance running etc. I think we just need to get our drugs right, though I think I'd rather stoners on our streets than masculine chicks and steroid freaks.

[backstothewall]

So a Bangor swimmer might medal like a Maghera cyclist or Coleraine rowers?

I know your probably hoping for someone to rise to the bait, but it won't be me. I am absolutely delighted for Alan Campbell and the Chambers brothers. The Maghera cyclist didn't win anything as there is no medal for first reserve on a cycling team.

But here's the thing. The Coleraine rowers and Maghera cyclist live in London, Maidenhead and Cornwall. How many medals would be coming back to Ireland (whatever colours the athletes are togged out in) if our best chance wasn't relying on people who have emigrated to places with proper facilities?

[paudie]

Annalise recorded a 2nd and a 10th today, now lying in second overall 1 point behind Evi van Acker of Belgium, and 2 ahead of Marit Bouwmeester of the Netherlands, with two normal races tomorrow, and the double points medal race on Monday. Still in with every chance of getting a medal if it stays windy, but I think Bouwmeester and van Acker have the beating of her if the wind drops.

Annalise came 3rd and 7th today and is down to third overrall before the medal race on monday.

It's really close.

Dutch girl first on 33 points
Chinese girl second on 33
Annalise third on 34
Belgian girl fourth on 34.

It's between those 4.

I work out that if annalise wins the medal race she gets gold
If she comes second she is guaranteed silver at least.

If she finishes ahead of one of the above 3 sailors she will get a medal. The other 3 have been more consistent in the last few days. for example they finished 1-2-3 in the last race while Annalise dropped from 3rd to 7th.

On the other hand she seems to be better in the first race of the day so a once off medal race might suit her.
Anyone else think she is nailed on for fourth?:mad:

[peadar1987]

Annalise came 3rd and 7th today and is down to third overrall before the medal race on monday.

It's really close.

Dutch girl first on 33 points
Chinese girl second on 33
Annalise third on 34
Belgian girl fourth on 34.

It's between those 4.

I work out that if annalise wins the medal race she gets gold
If she comes second she is guaranteed silver at least.

If she finishes ahead of one of the above 3 sailors she will get a medal. The other 3 have been more consistent in the last few days. for example they finished 1-2-3 in the last race while Annalise dropped from 3rd to 7th.

On the other hand she seems to be better in the first race of the day so a once off medal race might suit her.
Anyone else think she is nailed on for fourth?:mad:

The top 4 girls are all within a point of each other, and the medal race is worth double points, can't be discarded, and is also used as the tiebreaker if points are level at the end of the series, so essentially, the order the girls finish in the medal race is the order they finish in the overall standings.

Annalise just goes better in the breeze, she's had her poorer results in the more technical, tactical stuff, by and large. If we're being honest, van Acker, Bouwmeester, and the Chinese girl are all probably better sailors on a technical and tactical level than her, she's just very tall and very fit, which gives her the edge when things get a little hairy. And the forecast for the medal race? Not particularly breezy.

Heart says silver, head says a still-very-impressive 4th place. If she hadn't taken 4 bullets in the opening 4 races, we'd be jumping for joy at the thought of a 4th place.

[Spudulika]

I know your probably hoping for someone to rise to the bait, but it won't be me. I am absolutely delighted for Alan Campbell and the Chambers brothers. The Maghera cyclist didn't win anything as there is no medal for first reserve on a cycling team.

But here's the thing. The Coleraine rowers and Maghera cyclist live in London, Maidenhead and Cornwall. How many medals would be coming back to Ireland (whatever colours the athletes are togged out in) if our best chance wasn't relying on people who have emigrated to places with proper facilities?

btw, this is the nub of it and also a practical solution. An Irish solution to an Irish problem - export them!

1. How much would it cost to build and maintain a world class velodrome? What chances are that it will result in dozens (or even half a dozen) world class track racers?
2. How much would it cost to build a rowing lake? And as above but rowers in for racers.

It is cheaper and more efficient to send them abroad. In many cases we don't have the brainpower to develop the athletes at home. Plus, if an athlete really wants to make the breakthrough, they'll go for it somewhere else. Support them, facilitate them, educate them and organise their careers, but make sure they know where they're from and tie them up with a contract.

Handwringing and whinging from pundits is largely self-serving nest feathering. Track and field athletes go abroad in winter for warm weather training, regardless of indoor facilities available to them - yet I heard the 3 talking heads on RTE complain that they "have to" go in the winter. What do we do, effect a weather changing machine? Others I heard complaining that the facilities "just aren't there", there's a reason. In your tiny sport there isn't the critical mass to invest tens of millions to build something to keep YOU in a job!

I know I'm being as much of a whinger as the nodding dogs on tv and in the media, but please spare the the madness that we hear once in four about "facilities". If it was just that then Ireland would be a world class tennis power........

[DannyInvincible]

I was watching Team GB and South Korea last night in the football and noticed that Giggs started the run-up for his penalty from outside the 'D'. For some reason, I'd always thought the 'D' was a marker within which the penalty-taker's run-up was to be confined and assumed that Giggs had gotten away with scoring a foul penalty. I had a further read around the purpose of the 'D' though and it appears that this may not be the case. In fact, from what I can make out, it marks an exclusion zone for other players, in order to keep them outside of the box and arc as a penalty is being taken, rather than to keep the taker inside. It seems the taker can start his run-up from wherever on the pitch he likes. Can anyone confirm this to be the case?

Also, if Ramsey had started his run-up from outside the 'D' for one of his penalties during the game, would an opposing player have been within his rights to stand in the path of Ramsey's run-up, just so long as he was interfering outside of the box and the 'D'? And does it mean that two players could theoretically begin a run-up towards the ball on the penalty spot from outside the 'D' in order to confuse the keeper with only one following on through into the 'D' and box to take the kick?


So a Bangor swimmer might medal like a Maghera cyclist or Coleraine rowers?

But just how pivotal were the facilities at home to their achievements?


Annalise just goes better in the breeze, she's had her poorer results in the more technical, tactical stuff, by and large. If we're being honest, van Acker, Bouwmeester, and the Chinese girl are all probably better sailors on a technical and tactical level than her, she's just very tall and very fit, which gives her the edge when things get a little hairy. And the forecast for the medal race? Not particularly breezy.

Had read that alright; she's better in windier conditions due to her weight and strength. Unlikely she'll take the gold then if the forecast is calm.

[Macy]

The D marks 10 yards from the spot - the rest of the penalty area is at least 10 yards from it. only the taker and the keeper are allowed in it before the ball is kicked. I don't think interference
, bar verbals, would be allowed if a player took a longer run up. The penalty taker must be identified to the keeper and ref before its taken.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't think interference
, bar verbals, would be allowed if a player took a longer run up.

What would prevent a line of of opposing players positioning themselves along the edge of the 'D'? The law against impeding the progress of an opponent presumably (covered by the rather ambiguous Law 12 of the Laws of the Game)? Could it be deemed obstruction though if the group were just standing where they were legitimately entitled to stand rather than moving into the taker's path or budging him off course?

[backstothewall]

btw, this is the nub of it and also a practical solution. An Irish solution to an Irish problem - export them!

1. How much would it cost to build and maintain a world class velodrome? What chances are that it will result in dozens (or even half a dozen) world class track racers?
2. How much would it cost to build a rowing lake? And as above but rowers in for racers.

It is cheaper and more efficient to send them abroad. In many cases we don't have the brainpower to develop the athletes at home. Plus, if an athlete really wants to make the breakthrough, they'll go for it somewhere else. Support them, facilitate them, educate them and organise their careers, but make sure they know where they're from and tie them up with a contract.

Handwringing and whinging from pundits is largely self-serving nest feathering. Track and field athletes go abroad in winter for warm weather training, regardless of indoor facilities available to them - yet I heard the 3 talking heads on RTE complain that they "have to" go in the winter. What do we do, effect a weather changing machine? Others I heard complaining that the facilities "just aren't there", there's a reason. In your tiny sport there isn't the critical mass to invest tens of millions to build something to keep YOU in a job!

I know I'm being as much of a whinger as the nodding dogs on tv and in the media, but please spare the the madness that we hear once in four about "facilities". If it was just that then Ireland would be a world class tennis power........

Take the rowing lake. You're right it would cost a few quid. But that's not to say it wouldn't be world doing. Maintaining a lake doesn't sound like its going to be terribly expensive in Ireland. It's not like we're going to need a big team of people to be responsible for filling it in our climate, and building it would put a load of people who drive diggers and what not to work for a year or two. Every good park has a lake; ours hasn't got one and once it was finished Micky D would have somewhere nice to walk the dogs in the morning. And we would be able to host an annual regatta and fill hotel rooms with toffs, who are likely to spend a few bob more round the city than the typical stag-do crowd.

[Spudulika]

BTW, this is Ireland we're talking about. It will take 3 years longer than expected, have cost overruns x 4 and then have to be closed because some brightspark forgot to file the right papers and remove the toxic waste dump (aka Navan) from next door. Add to this the inevitable fall out over who is to operate it, until it's outsourced to a FG buddy whose offshore company also has links to some unsavoury regime (Merkel) and the Catholic church.

Apart from that it looks fine :-)

Really though, having such facilities can help Irish sports and tourism, but look at what we have and what we do with it? Initiatives like this can come from a) government, b) big business or c) both together. It's long term, community based and for the betterment of everyone - the only way this is going to work is if it's outsourced to the GAA.

[Gather round]

The Maghera cyclist didn't win anything as there is no medal for first reserve on a cycling team

Indeed, I was thinking of her silver in 2008. Quite impressive that she was even first reserve this time, given that the other three women were all about 12-15 years younger.


But here's the thing. The Coleraine rowers and Maghera cyclist live in London, Maidenhead and Cornwall

A fair point, although actually Houvenaghel had to live in Manchester for years to be near the velodrome. As did Wiggins and many of the other top British cyclists. Bodmin (a small town in England's most remote, poorest county) had about as much chance of getting one as Maghera.


How many medals would be coming back to Ireland (whatever colours the athletes are togged out in) if our best chance wasn't relying on people who have emigrated to places with proper facilities?

Tsk, who's winding up now. We don't emigrate to Manchester or London, even if you do :rolleyes:


But just how pivotal were the facilities at home to their achievements?

For the rowers, I'd guess quite a bit. It's still a very popular schools sport in more affluent Unionist areas, AFAIK. In my day, you had to be both physically fit (no-one was allowed near a boat before proving themselves in cross-country, weights etc.) and brave (to risk brick-throwers and potential suffocation or tetanus from a fall in the Lagan).

[backstothewall]

Tsk, who's winding up now. We don't emigrate to Manchester or London, even if you do :rolleyes:

Completely innocent, but if I substitute the word "emigrate" for "move" we're we in complete agreement right?

[Gather round]

Completely innocent, but if I substitute the word "emigrate" for "move" we're we in complete agreement right?

I'm not sure actually. While the rowers and cyclists clearly benefit from moving for tougher competition and better/ the only appropriate facilities, is that true of all sports? I mean, the Irish boxing team don't spend all their time training in Las Vegas, Ukraine, or Philipines, or wherever that sport's current stronghold is?

As for spend on Olympic standard facilities, Ireland already has three (Abbotstown, Belfield and Limerick) with a fourth about to complete in Bangor. There seem to be only eight in England according to Wiki, so that's hardly ungenerous. The priority in spending should be more modest but still high quality facilities eg 25m indoor pools in all large towns, astroturf pitches for every school etc.

[Spudulika]

GR, the Irish boxing team travel for training camps as well as host teams in Ireland thanks to long term vision from the IABA and investment that matched their ambitions. Athletics Ireland couldn't agree on the colour of the bib let alone what spot to develop, ditto the FAI etc.

As for Olympic standard facilities, don't leave out DCU, top class facilities and they host a number of high end professionals (Cricket, tennis and boxing).

[paudie]

The rowers have a National Rowing Centre in Inniscarra in Cork, which is on the reservoir on the river Lee. it probably isn't a world class facility but the union probably made the best of it with the money they have. The female rower Sanita Puspere moved to cork from Dublin so she could use the National rowing centre more often.

[Spudulika]

Well, we have our first medal. 2nd up tomorrow, and 3rd too!