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ballyhenryglens
22/08/2004, 1:38 AM
to hell with political correctness!!!--abeit in 'britain' or 'ireland'

it is my belief that all murderers, paedophiles, drug dealers, terrorists,perpetrators of 'aggressive rape'---these animals---should all face the death penalty!!!

any one who--- physically abuses animals---who attacks and robs the elderley----who 'riots'...who commits 'racist' crime... these perpetrators ---should face the birch!!!!

discuss!!

adamcarr
22/08/2004, 1:39 AM
to hell with political correctness!!!--abeit in 'britain' or 'ireland'

it is my belief that all murderers, paedophiles, drug dealers, terrorists,victims of 'aggressive rape'---these perpetrators---should all face the death penalty!!!

any one who--- physically abuses animals---who attacks and robs the elderley----who 'riots'...who commits 'racist' crime... these perpetrators ---should face the birch!!!!

discuss!!
:eek:
Calm Down!

Troy.McClure
22/08/2004, 1:51 AM
victims of 'aggressive rape'

Thats a bit harsh isnt it? :eek:




discuss!!
You're making it into a Leaving Cert question now! :D


Personally I wouldnt agree with you. I dont really see where 'political correctness' comes into play though?

max power
22/08/2004, 3:44 AM
wouldn't agree, there are too many flawed and unsound judgements in our society today to allow such a system to be put into pratice....

also in US states such as Texas were the death penalty is legal, murder rates are no lower than where it is not in the law....

ballyhenryglens
22/08/2004, 10:25 AM
violent crime is on the uprise, and this 'softly softly' approach by the british government is totally ineffective.---i seriously can't see the point in keeping the likes of the ian huntleys, the robert blacks, and the peter sutcliffes of this world alive.......all at the taxpayers expense ofcourse.
prisons are now holiday camps and this is totally unacceptable.
the government should adopt a zero tolerance attitude to crime.
what say if the dunblane murderer--thomas hamilton--had not taken his own worthless life??---and was still alive??---should he not be a more than worthy canditate to test the weight of a rope??---of course he should!!

and as for violent paedophiles--what can they offer society??---they prey on the most vulnerable of all--innocent children!---would it not be better to have these loathsome predators removed from society--permantley??

let us all remember one thing--no matter propoganda the 'left wing' and anti-hanging lobby will tell us---statistics prove that 100% of hanged men--do not re-offend again!!!

Pat O' Banton
22/08/2004, 11:16 AM
let us all remember one thing--no matter propoganda the 'left wing' and anti-hanging lobby will tell us---statistics prove that 100% of hanged men--do not re-offend again!!!

I think that you'll find that some people convicted of murder didn't offend in the first place.

patsh
22/08/2004, 11:21 AM
violent crime is on the uprise, and this 'softly softly' approach by the british government is totally ineffectiveReally? Tell us about it as a lot of us don't know much about foreign government policies......

Duncan Gardner
22/08/2004, 11:54 AM
violent crime is on the uprise, and this 'softly softly' approach by the british government is totally ineffective

Britain has one of the lowest homicide rates among EU member states, and London is below average for EU capital cities. Yet violence of any kind is destructive to society, and although violent crime has fallen by 35% since its peak in 1995, and has remained relatively stable since 2000, we are doing all we can to continue bringing it down (source: British Home Office, equivalent to Irish Department of Justice)


i seriously can't see the point in keeping the likes of the ian huntleys, the robert blacks, and the peter sutcliffes of this world alive.......all at the taxpayers expense of course

Would you kill everyone in net benefit from the British taxpayer, then?


prisons are now holiday camps and this is totally unacceptable

There are more than 75,000 imprisoned in this country, prisons are full to 98% capacity (same source as above). That is more per capita than any European country bar Turkey. This does not suggest a relaxed regime, rather overcrowding. Suggest that next time you're in town, get off the 48 bus early and have a look at the (now closed) Crumlin Road jail. That's what most British urban prisons still look like- built in the Victorian era and long overdue for replacement.


the government should adopt a zero tolerance attitude to crime

Stats above suggest it does...


what say if the dunblane murderer--thomas hamilton--had not taken his own worthless life??---and was still alive??---should he not be a more than worthy canditate to test the weight of a rope??---of course he should!!

Every political party likely to form a government in this country seems to disagree with you.



and as for violent paedophiles--what can they offer society??---they prey on the most vulnerable of all--innocent children!---would it not be better to have these loathsome predators removed from society--permantley??

No. The appropriate punishment for sexual crime is imprisonment followed by monitoring- which may be life-long in serious cases.


let us all remember one thing--no matter propoganda the 'left wing' and anti-hanging lobby will tell us---statistics prove that 100% of hanged men--do not re-offend again!!!

Although hanging doesn't appear to deter others from following them into serious crime. There are 450 offenders on 'death row' in Texas, for example (source- State of Texas). Maybe you can offer more evidence on the Ballhenry omnibus- I'll have a single to Duncan Gardens :)

dortie
22/08/2004, 12:49 PM
to hell with political correctness!!!--abeit in 'britain' or 'ireland'

it is my belief that all murderers, paedophiles, drug dealers, terrorists,victims of 'aggressive rape'---these perpetrators---should all face the death penalty!!!

any one who--- physically abuses animals---who attacks and robs the elderley----who 'riots'...who commits 'racist' crime... these perpetrators ---should face the birch!!!!

discuss!!

Lets Just hope you never be wrongly accused of a crime or incident :rolleyes: .....can happen anyone.

ballyhenryglens
22/08/2004, 1:15 PM
gentlemen, i accept there are not many of you out there that share my views on capital punishment.
lets take this from another angle----2 examples----
1/ mrs. elsie davidison (83)--mrs davidson was robbed and beaten to death in swansea last year by a brutal already convicted murderer--a one mr. john richard jarvis.---mr. jarvis had already served a 'life' sentence for murder---was released onto our streets---to commit murder yet again!!
had the state have done its job properly on the 1st murder conviction--and hung mr. jarvis...mrs. davidson would now be alive.

this is not the 1st time this has happened--nor do i fear it will be the last---we just have to look at the likes of mccloy, cuthbert, and steele---all convicted murderers who when released onto society again---murdered again.
if these creatures had have been 'topped' 1st time 'round---innocent people who are now dead-- would be alive.

2/ child murderer/paedophile-robert black.---this pervert had 3 convictions for violent sex offences against children---long before he went on to perfect his deadly art of murder....had the state done its job right --and taken mr. black out of society by a noose around the neck---on his 1st conviction of paedophlia---3 young children who are now dead--would be alive.

lenient sentences by courts--no proper justice for victims---the criminal ending up in holiday camp were he can eat the best of food, and can return to his cell to enjoy modern day comforts like sky t.v----and you have the audacity to tell me that the government adapts a 'zero tolerence of crime'??

are you lot serious??
it is high time we put the 'rights' of victims--above those of the criminal--and treat these criminals with the total contempt and 'mercy' they deserve---no mercy at all!!!!!

ballyhenryglens
22/08/2004, 1:47 PM
Thats a bit harsh isnt it? :eek:

it certainly is, old boy, and thanks for bringing that to my attention!

the post is now re-edited.--a tad careless of me there--i had one to many smirnoff last night, and foolishly hadn't checked what i had posted.

i ofcourse meant 'perpetrators' of rape...not 'victims'.

Pat O' Banton
22/08/2004, 1:56 PM
The logical conclusion of your arguement then is that sentences should be stiffer not a return to the death penalty. Secondly numourous people have pointed out that wrongful convictions can lead to more innocent people being murdered (this time by the state) would you care to address this.
Also you should be aware that murder is not usually an offence that people will recomit (residivist?) once they are released.

green goblin
23/08/2004, 10:02 AM
statistics prove that 100% of hanged men--do not re-offend again!!!

And statistics also prove that 100% of wrongly convicted hanged men never get to enjoy their freedom once pardoned.

The pro-noose lobby would have have hanged the Birmingham 6, the Guilford 4, the S Club 7, the lot of 'em if they'd had their chance. And it's the mark of civilised society that we don't allow them, no matter how emotive the issue.

Harry Tipper
23/08/2004, 10:27 AM
:eek: Why hanging just?
There are loads of other methods.
We could stone them.
Or burn them.
We could boil them.
Or quarter them.
We could build camps and gas them to death.
Or drop bomps on whole cityfulls of them just before sunrise.
It doesn't matter. 'We' are civilised and 'they' are animals.

Christ it's hot in here. Back to the footie lads
:ball:

Harry Tipper
23/08/2004, 10:46 AM
What's so wrong with red hot pokers inserted into the anus?

Let's not mix business and pleasure here. That particular pleasure is reserved solely for United Fans. :D

brendy_éire
23/08/2004, 2:47 PM
Capital punishment has been banned in the EU, it's not coming back any time soon.

Ballyhenry, if you kill a person who has killed, how does that make you any better than them? Capital punishment should be consigned to history. We've no need to stoop to the level of the yanks or Chinese.
I'd like to think us Europeans, along with plenty other nations, are setting the example for countries that use capital punishment.

blobbyblob
23/08/2004, 8:23 PM
Confine them to a cell with Noel King and Roddy Collins.

ballyhenryglens
23/08/2004, 8:52 PM
phew...well one things for sure...there are not many lads who post on these forums that share 'my hard line views'--i'll certanly give you that.
in saying that however, this will be my last post on this subject---granted, i must accept that no matter what i say -or type--i will never be able to bring you 'round to my way of thinking on this topic---likewise the flip side of the coin-is no matter what you type--you will never be able to persuade me that capital punishment is wrong, or immoral.
my sympathies -at all times-lie with the victims, or those families that have been berieved by violent crime,--the criminal who chooses to murder?-nah, i'm sorry but i have no sympathy for him whatsoever--as far as i'm concerned the world would be a much better place without him!!--

in closing i notice one of the posters happen to mention why i had put in 'those who physically attack animals'---the reason is that in northern ireland here lately, we have been hit by a spate of vicious attacks on friendly household pets--one example-in north belfast a young kitten had been disected by some evil sadist, who then proceeded to pin the cats remains to the owners garage---now perhaps i'm being biased here--i have a great love of domesticated pets--but i feel that any offender who could do such a vile act is lower than vermin--in fact they are lower than the lice and the parasites that crawl on the vermins back!!--i would like to see such an offender meet a 'cat' at the hands of the state--i am referring of course to the cat 'o' nine tails--the birch!!----i believe such an indivudial should recieve a very,very, very severe beating, carried out by the state!!

gentlemen, we must agree to disagree on this subject, and finally may i take this opportunity to bid you all a good evening, good luck, and the very best of british to you.

Pat O' Banton
23/08/2004, 9:34 PM
phew...well one things for sure...there are not many lads who post on these forums that share 'my hard line views'--i'll certanly give you that.
in saying that however, this will be my last post on this subject---granted, i must accept that no matter what i say -or type--i will never be able to bring you 'round to my way of thinking on this topic---likewise the flip side of the coin-is no matter what you type--you will never be able to persuade me that capital punishment is wrong, or immoral.
my sympathies -at all times-lie with the victims, or those families that have been berieved by violent crime,--the criminal who chooses to murder?-nah, i'm sorry but i have no sympathy for him whatsoever--as far as i'm concerned the world would be a much better place without him!!--

in closing i notice one of the posters happen to mention why i had put in 'those who physically attack animals'---the reason is that in northern ireland here lately, we have been hit by a spate of vicious attacks on friendly household pets--one example-in north belfast a young kitten had been disected by some evil sadist, who then proceeded to pin the cats remains to the owners garage---now perhaps i'm being biased here--i have a great love of domesticated pets--but i feel that any offender who could do such a vile act is lower than vermin--in fact they are lower than the lice and the parasites that crawl on the vermins back!!--i would like to see such an offender meet a 'cat' at the hands of the state--i am referring of course to the cat 'o' nine tails--the birch!!----i believe such an indivudial should recieve a very,very, very severe beating, carried out by the state!!

gentlemen, we must agree to disagree on this subject, and finally may i take this opportunity to bid you all a good evening, good luck, and the very best of british to you.

You can't do this, in the great foot.ie tradition you have to carry on an arguement until it reaches at least thirty pages, throw in the occasional personal insult and go round in circles for at least half the pages. Lopez v Twlfth Apostle on the Croatian war crimes thread, the pro/ anti Celtic threads, anything our erstwhile village idiot Patrick J was involved in there are plenty of such fine examples. :)
BTW your right anyone who hurts a tame animal for enjoyment os a sick w*****r

Closed Account 2
24/08/2004, 12:37 AM
sounds like Sharia' law to me !?!?!?

:p

lopez
25/08/2004, 12:02 PM
You can't do this, in the great foot.ie tradition you have to carry on an arguement until it reaches at least thirty pages, throw in the occasional personal insult and go round in circles for at least half the pages. Lopez v Twlfth Apostle on the Croatian war crimes thread, the pro/ anti Celtic threads, anything our erstwhile village idiot Patrick J was involved in there are plenty of such fine examples. :)
BTW your right anyone who hurts a tame animal for enjoyment os a sick w*****rAnd we still managed to kiss and make up after TC questioning whether I'm a batter or a bowler. :D

CP is a dodgy subject. Personally I'm against it - because it's treating the symptoms rather than the causes (as seen in the US) and its tendency to kill innocent people. However, I knew this bloke once who was highly liberal, anti-CP because of the B6, G4, etc (before they were pardoned but when everyone knew they were innocent) who went to America and within six months was howling that this is the best solution after watching a re-offender go Rambo on a ferry circa 1986. If someone killed a member of my family or pinned my cat against my garage wall, I would happily pull the trigger. Society is there to take a more pragmatic and let's say civilised view and dispense proper justice. However murder and other vicious crimes such as rape should be punished by 'life' sentences. It is only the case in multiple murders of the Shipman, Suttcliffe, Nilsen type of cases or reoffenders on licence that this is currently done.

Pat O' Banton
25/08/2004, 1:24 PM
Folks, it is only a cat...

I hate cruelty to animals, but let's always keep a bit of perspective on things. We routinely abuse animals daily for our purposes (who asks the fish does it like dying at the end of a fishing hook being dragged out of its natural environment?). I'm not saying we should accept animal cruelty, but comparing killing a family member to pinning a cat against a wall is not valid...

I ask questions about it, but then again I'm a raving lefty vegetarian type. ;)

Think one of the things about animal cruetly, apart from the fact that I just find it truely sick, is that especially amoungst the young it can show trends in the way people will act later in life. In other words if you find enjoyment in killing/harming one innocent thing then what will you develop like and how will this show up in your relationships with other living things inc. humans

Pat O' Banton
25/08/2004, 1:39 PM
Can I ask you if you grew up around farmers? Farming is very often a cruel business, animals spend their life in captivity, rabbits and foxes get shot, puppies get drowned etc. etc. But I don't think there is a higher degree of violence in a rural area than, say, Fatima Mansions. farmers don't all become raging perverts. I know farmers may not do it purely for enjoyment, but I don't see them wrestling with their conscience either. It's life. Animals are not humans.

I'm talking cruelty for fun here being the most worrying aspect not the business of farming, i.e. yer man in Belfast was doing something like this for kicks, I find that something that is very worrying. Would say that it is difficult to justify finding fun in any sort of cruelty or killing where it be animal or human.
Farm life? Only the obligetary plastics on tour, six weeks summer holiday in Fermanagh at the uncles. (For anyone lurking from followfollow, you will be please to know yes I did do tattie hoking :eek: :D)

Pat O' Banton
25/08/2004, 1:45 PM
farmers don't all become raging perverts.

Don't know, thats a debate I've had several times before :D

lopez
25/08/2004, 1:55 PM
Can I ask you if you grew up around farmers? Farming is very often a cruel business, animals spend their life in captivity, rabbits and foxes get shot, puppies get drowned etc. etc. But I don't think there is a higher degree of violence in a rural area than, say, Fatima Mansions. farmers don't all become raging perverts. I know farmers may not do it purely for enjoyment, but I don't see them wrestling with their conscience either. It's life. Animals are not humans.All the things mentioned above were not done purely for cruelty's sake...even the drowining of the puppies (and kittens).

My mother grew up on a small farm in Spain and no, she never wrestled with her consciousness over a story she tells us of a pig being slaughtered in front of her eyes with a knife through the heart, because every edible morsel of the animal was turned into some sort of food which even for farmers was in short supply. But on the other hand she's always hated bullfighting purely because of the unecessary cruelty. Perhaps only a vegan can hold his/her hands up and say they don't collaborate with some form of animal cruelty, and the rest of us are hypocrites. But I still would be as furious with cruelty to my cat as with say my kids, even if this sounds excessive - and rightly so - in the eyes of the state.

Thunderblaster
01/11/2007, 8:34 PM
Since the last post three years ago, there were definitely some murders here that would fall into the capital punishment category in the USA, the SS case would be the obvious one followed by the RO'R murder.

Lim till i die
01/11/2007, 8:39 PM
perpetrators of 'aggressive rape' [QUOTE]

As opposed to soft, cuddly rape?? :eek:

[QUOTE]Confine them to a cell with Noel King and Roddy Collins.

I'd rather be Kenny in third series of Oz tbh :eek: :)

jebus
01/11/2007, 8:57 PM
Torn between my love of rants and mass murders and my hatred of all things Glentoran on this one I'm afraid

CollegeTillIDie
01/11/2007, 8:57 PM
ballyhenry glens

I agree with you but in order to get past the do -gooders as a compromise I have suggested sterilising them and preventing them breeding. This would eventually lead to low life scumbags dying out. :D

Aberdonian Stu
01/11/2007, 9:44 PM
Either way this thread doesn't belong in this section.

BohsPartisan
01/11/2007, 10:47 PM
discuss!!

The East Germans used to be pretty good at it.

Lionel Ritchie
02/11/2007, 12:36 AM
Funniest Thread Ever!!!:D ...in whatever section.

Oh and this is just an observation (voice drops to whisper) ...has anyone else noticed there's a whole lot of French-Canadians on the board at the mo'?

:D

Best thread ever!

kingdom hoop
02/11/2007, 3:26 AM
Holy cow, are you baileban in disguise? :p

Spookily enough, I was reading a list from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_methods_of_capital_punishment) earlier today which made for some eye-opening viewing. If you're eating I wouldn't advise opening the link by the way. I think my favourite is the scaphism one, what would you pick especially for your 'first up against the wall'?! I very much approve of any bizarre punishments, I think we need to shake things up big time as incarceration doesn't seem to be a deterrent at all. Remember that judge a good few years who made some fella, John McClean-esque, walk down O'Connell Street draped with a placard proclaiming that he'd ****ed in public? (keep the alliterative p thoughts and you should guess the word!) More judges like him is what this world needs. :)

Bluebeard
02/11/2007, 11:49 AM
Remember that judge a good few years who made some fella, John McClean-esque, walk down O'Connell Street draped with a placard proclaiming that he'd ****ed in public? (keep the alliterative p thoughts and you should guess the word!)

He proposed in public?

I say hang the Romantics - coming over here, taking our potential wives...

jebus
02/11/2007, 11:54 AM
I always liked that Brazen Bull one myself. Especially the fact that turned the condemned's screams into bull noises for the laugh! :D

Wolfie
02/11/2007, 12:03 PM
let us all remember one thing--no matter propoganda the 'left wing' and anti-hanging lobby will tell us---statistics prove that 100% of hanged men--do not re-offend again!!!

Whatever happened to ballyhenryglens? Did he post beyond 2004?

Maybe he's currently serving time somewhere for a murder he didn't commit.

pete
02/11/2007, 1:03 PM
Bad cases make bad law. Prison must be there to punish as reforming does not work for violent criminals.

superfrank
02/11/2007, 1:09 PM
I've pondered this from time to time and my belief is that murderers who are found guilty, 12 out of 12, and receive a life sentence should be executed. Don't waste prison space for them. This won't effect murder rates but it would probably empty up prisons (I know in England they're pretty full).

Wolfie
02/11/2007, 1:16 PM
Bad cases make bad law. Prison must be there to punish as reforming does not work for violent criminals.

"If hospitals cure, then prisons must bring their pain"

A Manics lyric - possibly quoting "Crime and Punishment" ? :confused:

Dodge
02/11/2007, 1:21 PM
Bad cases make bad law. Prison must be there to punish as reforming does not work for violent criminals.

The world according to pete. I'd buy that book pete. As is the norm in this forum. Any stats to back it up?

jebus
02/11/2007, 1:24 PM
I'll take it Pete and Superfrank aren't Buddhists then

pete
02/11/2007, 1:35 PM
The world according to pete. I'd buy that book pete. As is the norm in this forum. Any stats to back it up?

I am only going by the Irish Prison System. Is it possible to "cure" criminals & why would a criminal see as the downside to serious crime? Up until recently even the high security prison seemed to allow the prisoners fairly reasonable luxuries. Aside from denial of freedom seems to be no downside. I don't agree with state sanctioned murder but serving 7 years for murder is beyond a joke.

Dodge
02/11/2007, 2:12 PM
I am only going by the Irish Prison System. Is it possible to "cure" criminals & why would a criminal see as the downside to serious crime? Up until recently even the high security prison seemed to allow the prisoners fairly reasonable luxuries. Aside from denial of freedom seems to be no downside. I don't agree with state sanctioned murder but serving 7 years for murder is beyond a joke.

Thats not what I asked pete. have you any stats to back up your claim that rehabilitation doesn't work?

Oh and the vast majority of murderers don't re-offend. Surely thats the point?

kingdom hoop
02/11/2007, 2:26 PM
Prison must be there to punish as reforming does not work for violent criminals.

Fact is, prison doesn't punish anywhere like it should to act as a deterrent. Thus it's only function is to keep us safe in our homes and give us peace of mind that criminals are locked up and incapacitated. But we all know sentences in this country are extremely lenient, so we are very much short-changed in the whole equation. The current system we have thus fails on all major counts; deterrence, incapacitation and reform. The latter is one perhaps least explored in our discussions but is the most interesting in my view. I don't know much about the psychology etc of it all but how do you know people can't change? Leopards may not change their spots, but don't forget chameleons change their colour! Instead of being defeatist and saying it is impossible I'd be more of the view that reform is possible but the system in place is woefully inadequate, not giving any chance of reform. I've said it before and I'll say it again;


Back onto the railroads to repay the debt to society, then give them a frontal lobotomy to rewire their system and off with them to a Buddhist monastery to learn how you should lead your life and then they can come back to lead a loving, productive life.

Ok fair enough the lobotomy idea may blemish my point, but at the very least I think hard labour is essential as that way the public is getting something back, tipping the scales in our favour a bit more compared to the way things are now. As for the reforming aspect, I don't think the Buddhist monastery notion, or similar, is all that outlandish. I'd be confident in betting that the vast majority of prisoners have never left this country, read a book, things like that, ie their horizons haven't been broadened, they don't know much about the world, don't appreciate its wonder, or realise the opportunities available. Open them up to the world and I think there is at least a chance some of them will change. I know I have. - joke. a poor one I realise :o

Lionel Ritchie
02/11/2007, 3:10 PM
I think as a complimentary therapy to hard labour -pointless labour should also be on the cards -especially for those who produce sick notes ...and that'd surely be plenty.

I'm thinking production lines that produce nothing but paper-clip chains augmented by a secondary stage where all they do is dismantle paper-clip chains. The type of work that keeps the body occupied but gives the mind time to dwell upon it's errant ways

jebus
04/11/2007, 3:59 PM
to hell with political correctness!!!--abeit in 'britain' or 'ireland'

I bet ballyhenry would be outraged to learn that his Hang All Murderers thread has been rebranded as Crime and Punishment Discussion by the PC brigade around here!! :mad::mad::p

micls
04/11/2007, 5:57 PM
I am against capital punishment in theory but there are times when I would happily do the deed myself. Some people are absolute scum, and I wouldnt be slightly bothered if they happened to die but it is not worth the risk that a single innocent person would die because of capital punishment.

What we certainly do need though is harsher sentencing. Let them rot

rebelarmyexile
04/11/2007, 10:32 PM
to hell with political correctness!!!--abeit in 'britain' or 'ireland'

it is my belief that all murderers, paedophiles, drug dealers, terrorists,perpetrators of 'aggressive rape'---these animals---should all face the death penalty!!!

any one who--- physically abuses animals---who attacks and robs the elderley----who 'riots'...who commits 'racist' crime... these perpetrators ---should face the birch!!!!

discuss!!


May be of interest to people that YFG are holding a seminar "Liberal Laws & the decline of Civilised Society" on tuesday 6th in Dublin. covers this topic almost too well.

pete
05/11/2007, 6:07 PM
Frank Ward (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1031/chawkec.html) would be a good example of someone who is beyond reform. 54 year old career violent criminal.


A 54-year-old man has been sentenced to life imprisonment for shooting and stealing from publican Charlie Chawke.

The court heard that Ward has six previous convictions including five for robbery and firearms offences.

Ward received three 12-year sentences for three charges of possessing a firearm. All of the sentences will run concurrently.

Apparently life is 12 years. I wonder how many years he will serve...

Clearly he effort made to reform him & given his 'stats' it is likely not possible.

Any one know how our sentences compare with other countries?

kingdom hoop
06/11/2007, 11:54 PM
Frank Ward (http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1031/chawkec.html) would be a good example of someone who is beyond reform.


Maybe. But how do we know someone is beyond reform if there is little to either constructively help them become better people once they offend, or upon release there is no major deterrent not to relapse? I'm not trying to be a smart arse here Pete I'm just suggesting that until alternative methods of punishment and reform are implemented in the prison service I don't think it's right to give up and say someone is beyond reform. I mean, is it not well established that prisons are more akin to crime colleges than the life colleges that they should be? Wouldn't whatever investment is put into proactive initiatives to push criminals toward a better life be dramatically recouped if even a small number don't re-offend?

What is pretty clear to me is that with the current system of 'punishment' (pretty lenient sentences/few thinking outside the box rehabilitation plans/holiday camp prisons) we have, and no matter how many extra Gardaí are on the beat, crime levels will continue to rise. Did I hear someone shout Kingdom hoop for Minister for Justice? :p