Irish Independent Articles

[cheifo]

Two articles regarding current situation in LOI football in the Irish Independent yesterday by the Kellys David and Liam.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/if-most-league-of-ireland-clubs-cant-provide-clean-toilets-they-can-hardly-be-expected-to-run-academies-3161799.html

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/liam-kelly-nothing-should-be-off-the-table-in-radical-overhaul-to-save-league-of-ireland-3161798.html

[NeverFeltBetter]

And so, Irish international types despise the manner in which League of Ireland types refer to themselves as 'real' football fans; patriotism is at once the last refuge of the scoundrel and the last resort.

See, I mentioned this kind of thing in the "How the rest of the world sees us" thread, but how is this helpful? Are the people who went to Poland but only support English clubs going to read this and think "Wow, I totally want to see a LOI game now!"?


As the banner proclaims so proudly in Inchicore, "Ni neart go cur le cheile." There's no strength without unity.

I'm glad Mr Kelly can reduce himself to "unity" with the "scoundrels".

Also, Roddy Collins on this "commission?" Really!?

[marinobohs]

See, I mentioned this kind of thing in the "How the rest of the world sees us" thread, but how is this helpful? Are the people who went to Poland but only support English clubs going to read this and think "Wow, I totally want to see a LOI game now!"?



I'm glad Mr Kelly can reduce himself to "unity" with the "scoundrels".

Also, Roddy Collins on this "commission?" Really!?

Actually who knows more about the myriad of problems faced by LOI clubs than Roddy ?

Would fully endorse the Commission idea* to (a) evaluate the current debacle and (b) develop 3/5 year plan to stabilise football here. This new dispensation would be a great oppurtunity to shake off some of the historic baggage and rebrand the LOI going forward. All ideas on the table and a clear time line for implementation

*as membership of the commission would lead to days/months/years of arguments here's a proposal - 2 members appointed by FAI, 2 members by Dept of Sport, 2 members by LOI clubs (Prem and 1st Div) 1 marketing consultant/RTE person. 2 other independent members to be agreed by commission at first meeting (if agreed) Independent Chair appointed by Minister for Sport (prefeably from outside football).

[ped_ped]

2 members appointed by FAI, 2 members by Dept of Sport, 2 members by LOI clubs (Prem and 1st Div) 1 marketing consultant/RTE person. 2 other independent members to be agreed by commission at first meeting (if agreed) Independent Chair appointed by Minister for Sport (prefeably from outside football).

Well you can't really have a commission in which only three of the eight members (the LOI reps and the marketing/media consultant) actually know what they're talking about. The FAI would need to be included, obviously, and the Dept. of Sport should be included, but the views and interests of the clubs would never be properly voiced and explored with just one First Division representative and one Premier representative. In turn this would lead to consternation with the many clubs that would feel unrepresented, and ultimately the findings of the commission would feel like a dictate being passed down rather than an agreed course of action.

As you said, yourself, though, when you take all this into account things become quite messy.

[marinobohs]

Well you can't really have a commission in which only three of the eight members (the LOI reps and the marketing/media consultant) actually know what they're talking about. The FAI would need to be included, obviously, and the Dept. of Sport should be included, but the views and interests of the clubs would never be properly voiced and explored with just one First Division representative and one Premier representative. In turn this would lead to consternation with the many clubs that would feel unrepresented, and ultimately the findings of the commission would feel like a dictate being passed down rather than an agreed course of action.

As you said, yourself, though, when you take all this into account things become quite messy.

No offence to anyone involved but over a long number of years the clubs (both inside and outside the FAI umberella) have shown themselves incapable of running/managing the League and rarely capable of looking beyond their own vested interest(s).

I believe we are long past another LOI talking shop so yes, a dictate is what I believe we need. If I were looking at braodening the numbers I woud look at interests from other sports (GAA, Rugby,Horse racing etc) rather than more LOI club reps.

The terms of reference would be to design a vibrant league not how to run (run down) a LOI club so I suggest it disengenuous to suggest no one but LOI club people know how to run a league.

[geezer]

Commissions, Marketeers, cpos etc all cost expenses and bobs no club has, try the 5 things below

1. Get your committee in a room and Ring your season ticket list 4 times a season, ask them for help and come to the next game if they have stayed away, ask them to bring a friend or family member, chat with them for 5 mins, no more, they will be delighted with the call believe me.
( a local insurance, estate agent, call centre business may let you use their office phones etc for an evening as sponsorship)

2. Get your committee out at the turnstiles on match nights, welcoming people, shaking their hands and selling programmes

3. Introduce yourself and your committee to those coming to games get to know them on 1st name terms
( there is nothing like a person greeting you on first name terms at the club you love with your friend or family beside you, its as if everyone knows your name)


4. Thank them for coming as they leave and inform them of the next game personally. (dont just leave it to the pa system, thats lazy)

5. Brighten up the front appearance of the entrance to your ground with the smile of the people that run the club


These 5 things cost nothing only time and i will guarantee a 20% increase in gates within 6 weeks.

its not rocket science.

Clubs should all be working together on these simple initiatives

[nigel-harps1954]

*as membership of the commission would lead to days/months/years of arguments here's a proposal - 2 members appointed by FAI, 2 members by Dept of Sport, 2 members by LOI clubs (Prem and 1st Div) 1 marketing consultant/RTE person. 2 other independent members to be agreed by commission at first meeting (if agreed) Independent Chair appointed by Minister for Sport (prefeably from outside football).


This, but I agree with ped_ped. A delegate from each member club in the League of Ireland would have to be included. Be it the Chairman, or elected spokesperson, the clubs voices need to be heard.

[ped_ped]

No offence to anyone involved but over a long number of years the clubs (both inside and outside the FAI umberella) have shown themselves incapable of running/managing the League and rarely capable of looking beyond their own vested interest(s).

I believe we are long past another LOI talking shop so yes, a dictate is what I believe we need. If I were looking at braodening the numbers I woud look at interests from other sports (GAA, Rugby,Horse racing etc) rather than more LOI club reps.

The terms of reference would be to design a vibrant league not how to run (run down) a LOI club so I suggest it disengenuous to suggest no one but LOI club people know how to run a league.

Fair point on the track record of those in the LOI, but at the same time, if you're talking of running a league instead of running clubs then the input of the members of that league is required. In that case, then, representatives of clubs need to be involved in the discussion, if not in the commission itself or the decision-making process. Top-down change doesn't work when the 'top' in this case is a commission consisting of individuals unaffected by the changes (GAA, Rugby officials, etc.), so the members need to feel involved and be listened to. They will be the ones affected by these changes in the end.

That said, the idea of beinging GAA and Rugby officials into the reckoning is an excellent, as they are running successful models as we speak (indeed, the two most successful sports models in the country). I'd be afraid their know-how in this area would be quite limited, though, considering the GAA is effectively the FIFA of its code and doesn't compete vastly superior Spanish and English hurling and football teams, while the hugely successful four provinces system used by the IRFU couldn't be implemented in the LOI without crushing the identity of the game. Likewise, the IRFU have less of a problem of international competitors with two of the most successful club sides in the world in Munster and Leinster. GAA and Rugby would promote themselves, and yet they are all over the TV, radio and print media on top of that. It's hard to know how effective their PR machine is, then, considering their product is obviously more attractive at a glance to begin with.

Nonetheless, they should be involved and asked for assistance. (What initiatives they have found successful, etc.)

[lawman]

commissions, marketeers, cpos etc all cost expenses and bobs no club has, try the 5 things below

1. Get your committee in a room and ring your season ticket list 4 times a season, ask them for help and come to the next game if they have stayed away, ask them to bring a friend or family member, chat with them for 5 mins, no more, they will be delighted with the call believe me.
( a local insurance, estate agent, call centre business may let you use their office phones etc for an evening as sponsorship)

2. Get your committee out at the turnstiles on match nights, welcoming people, shaking their hands and selling programmes

3. Introduce yourself and your committee to those coming to games get to know them on 1st name terms
( there is nothing like a person greeting you on first name terms at the club you love with your friend or family beside you, its as if everyone knows your name)


4. Thank them for coming as they leave and inform them of the next game personally. (dont just leave it to the pa system, thats lazy)

5. Brighten up the front appearance of the entrance to your ground with the smile of the people that run the club


these 5 things cost nothing only time and i will guarantee a 20% increase in gates within 6 weeks.

Its not rocket science.

Clubs should all be working together on these simple initiatives



some very simplistic and realistic ideas here that i'd be very surprised that have been overlooked by any committee. This type of thing happens at our local community meetings every week to plan events or any fundraiser. Think " shop local"

[geezer]

some very simplistic and realistic ideas here that i'd be very surprised that have been overlooked by any committee. This type of thing happens at our local community meetings every week to plan events or any fundraiser. Think " shop local"


i find people now will do anything but ask for help directly, forget for a minute tweeting, poking, texting people or advertising. You cant beat the personal touch, the phone call and asking for help a bit of an update and a thank you for all their support in the past. Help is the most important word and all they have to do to "help" is turn up.
Our clubs are very small, a 10 person or 12 person committee should know practically all their regulars to see at least. Go ring them, talk to them and when they come to the game go shake their hands and introduce your people and re introduce them to others in the ground.

I can guarantee you this works, I am available to any club with the interest to prove it.

[Spudulika]

Liam Kelly destroys any good points in his article with 2 grievous errors. 1. It's Premier Division, not League. 2. Roddy is incapable of working within any defined structure on a consistent basis, he knows this.

David Kelly, as a lifelong Pats fan (as well as rugby fan), is speaking from deep knowledge of the LOI. Though the common thread of his article is negative.

It's great that the Indo deems the LOI worthy of 2 articles that explore the wants and needs. Debate and discussion can only, at least, lead to some sort of progress. Though from the tone of both articles, they're having a go at 1 man and this continues their disgraceful tradition of character assassination in the lowest and most vile British tabloid form. Whatever good they generate from points made, it is facetious, they have their editorial orders - Trap out, Delaney out - and are thinly disguising it as concern for the LOI.

[bennocelt]

At least its better than accepting the status quo

[Mark]

Two generally good articles (obviously we all do not agree with everything in both), informative and balanced; neither of which was written by that paper's football correspondent....

[marinobohs]

Fair point on the track record of those in the LOI, but at the same time, if you're talking of running a league instead of running clubs then the input of the members of that league is required. In that case, then, representatives of clubs need to be involved in the discussion, if not in the commission itself or the decision-making process. Top-down change doesn't work when the 'top' in this case is a commission consisting of individuals unaffected by the changes (GAA, Rugby officials, etc.), so the members need to feel involved and be listened to. They will be the ones affected by these changes in the end.

That said, the idea of beinging GAA and Rugby officials into the reckoning is an excellent, as they are running successful models as we speak (indeed, the two most successful sports models in the country). I'd be afraid their know-how in this area would be quite limited, though, considering the GAA is effectively the FIFA of its code and doesn't compete vastly superior Spanish and English hurling and football teams, while the hugely successful four provinces system used by the IRFU couldn't be implemented in the LOI without crushing the identity of the game. Likewise, the IRFU have less of a problem of international competitors with two of the most successful club sides in the world in Munster and Leinster. GAA and Rugby would promote themselves, and yet they are all over the TV, radio and print media on top of that. It's hard to know how effective their PR machine is, then, considering their product is obviously more attractive at a glance to begin with.

Nonetheless, they should be involved and asked for assistance. (What initiatives they have found successful, etc.)

Obviously the Commission would/should take submissions from all parties with an interest in the structure/future of the LOI, especially those most directly involved. All of these submissions plus best practice world wide (other FAs) and best practice in other sports (where appropriate) feed into the outcome.

In many cases having "fresh eyes" onthe matter (and avoiding revisiting the arguments/differences of the past) is a positive and can offer up a new perspective on an old problem.


Personally think having someone like Roddy involved could be usefull as he is always likely to throw up a curveball or two that is unforeseen.

[Sean South]

Commissions, Marketeers, cpos etc all cost expenses and bobs no club has, try the 5 things below

1. Get your committee in a room and Ring your season ticket list 4 times a season, ask them for help and come to the next game if they have stayed away, ask them to bring a friend or family member, chat with them for 5 mins, no more, they will be delighted with the call believe me.
( a local insurance, estate agent, call centre business may let you use their office phones etc for an evening as sponsorship)

2. Get your committee out at the turnstiles on match nights, welcoming people, shaking their hands and selling programmes

3. Introduce yourself and your committee to those coming to games get to know them on 1st name terms
( there is nothing like a person greeting you on first name terms at the club you love with your friend or family beside you, its as if everyone knows your name)


4. Thank them for coming as they leave and inform them of the next game personally. (dont just leave it to the pa system, thats lazy)

5. Brighten up the front appearance of the entrance to your ground with the smile of the people that run the club


These 5 things cost nothing only time and i will guarantee a 20% increase in gates within 6 weeks.

its not rocket science.

Clubs should all be working together on these simple initiatives

Was there a 20% increase in Galway United's attendances when the Trust took over the running of the club?

[Mr Maroon]

Was there a 20% increase in Galway United's attendances when the Trust took over the running of the club?

There was a small increase, despite the worst results ever seen in the LOI.

[Sean South]

Fair play.

[geezer]

This works. costs nothing and if you in mervue friday night i would explain it to you further its free advice be only happy to help

[Jofspring]

This works. costs nothing and if you in mervue friday night i would explain it to you further its free advice be only happy to help

Not sure if serious :confused:

[geezer]

Not sure if serious :confused:

honestly, I will be in Mervue watching Lims on friday night. pm me. Lims are an ideal outfit for trying it out, im convinced if you are getting 500 or 700 now that this can increase 20% probably 50% over 2 seasons

[Jofspring]

I was more talking about the fact Sean south isn't a limerick fan so won't be at the game. Was a bit of a running joke there about 2 weeks ago with people thinking he was a limerick fan so he changed his avatar.

On the board being out and about on march day. I must while they don't come up to every fan etc... But you will always see them going around the ground. Michael O Sullivan, Pat O Sullivan and Kieran Judge can always be seen knocking about jackman an usually when they have the time they are talking to the fans etc... Pat even watches the games on the hill in jackman in amongst everyone instead of up above the dressing rooms where he could go.

[harpin]

I was more talking about the fact Sean south isn't a limerick fan so won't be at the game. Was a bit of a running joke there about 2 weeks ago with people thinking he was a limerick fan so he changed his avatar.

On the board being out and about on march day. I must while they don't come up to every fan etc... But you will always see them going around the ground. Michael O Sullivan, Pat O Sullivan and Kieran Judge can always be seen knocking about jackman an usually when they have the time they are talking to the fans etc... Pat even watches the games on the hill in jackman in amongst everyone instead of up above the dressing rooms where he could go.

Or where sometimes you wish he would go:)

[Lim till i die]

Sean South. http://tgn.tv/community/data/images/smilies/adore.gif

Geezer, you're an absolute beaut, our board are accessible to the point where I'd safely say everyone in the ground knows who they are and that they can stop and chat to them. Thanks a million for the offer but you're grand.

[geezer]

wondering how it took so long to retort smugly. If everything is perfect at Limerick thats great congratulations.
I have seen two of the men you mention in action and they are fantastic lads & gentlemen.

Best of luck

[Stuttgart88]

Liam Kelly destroys any good points in his article with 2 grievous errors. 1. It's Premier Division, not League. 2. Roddy is incapable of working within any defined structure on a consistent basis, he knows this.

David Kelly, as a lifelong Pats fan (as well as rugby fan), is speaking from deep knowledge of the LOI. Though the common thread of his article is negative.

It's great that the Indo deems the LOI worthy of 2 articles that explore the wants and needs. Debate and discussion can only, at least, lead to some sort of progress. Though from the tone of both articles, they're having a go at 1 man and this continues their disgraceful tradition of character assassination in the lowest and most vile British tabloid form. Whatever good they generate from points made, it is facetious, they have their editorial orders - Trap out, Delaney out - and are thinly disguising it as concern for the LOI.Very well said. I think the points he made are generally good - but tempered by the usual slurs. He also threw in a dig at the Irish fans too btw.

[bluemovie]

I was rooting through old programmes earlier and found this interesting piece by the Irish Independent's Noel Dunne in the Ireland v Northern Ireland programme from October 1989. It's funny/depressing/thought-provoking to read now. Bear in mind the last line was pre-Sky HD 3D Super Sundays.

Support Local Soccer

Almost two years have passed since the never to be forgotten intervention of a Scot thrust the Republic of Ireland truly into the European spotlight for the first time. And the squad certainly did not let us down in West Germany. They proved they had the right – which some doubted – to be there.

Even after that however there were many, at home and abroad, who said the Irish honeymoon could not continue. That they would be 'found out' in the World Cup preliminaries. Well, now the Republic is on the brink again. Not on the edge of disaster as was the tradition over so many agonising years, but on the verge of going to the finals in Italy.

And if they succeed – even now there must be that qualification to the most cautious, a body which includes Jack Charlton – will any benefits accrue to the game on the domestic scene?

In one aspect, if one is to judge by the aftermath of the European Championships, the answer would appear to be in the negative. Certainly in the following League of Ireland season the fans did not exactly come swarming back to the terraces.

Indeed there is much that remains to be done in the local arenas. But there is a lot of good there too. And many of the fans (you?) who are most caustic of the standard of football here will admit, nay, even seem to take some pride in saying that they have not attended a match in their locality for years.

So, again with that 'if', will World Cup qualification make any difference to the health of the game at home? Surely it must. After West Germany the benefits were felt perhaps mostly behind the scenes. Much-needed revenue became available which enabled, for instance the formation of a Development Comittee to decide how best to foster the game at every level.

And though Milltown is gone – like the loss of Flower Lodge a disgrace which will not be forgotten – Dalymount, where panic flags were raised in supplication, Tolka Park and United Park in Drogheda, all under threat, were saved.

Also very welcome was the new joint FAS/F.A.I. League Apprenticeship Programme evolved to eradicate the exploitation of young players. The number of clubs around the country continues to grow, as, apparently does the number of coaches involved. Neither of which is necessarily all for the best. Coaching should nurture and educate at younger levels, not risk stifling budding talent by 'blackboard' thinking.

However, getting off that hobby-horse of mine, there remains the not inconsiderable tourism benefit which would accrue if we go to and travel well, in Italy.

We will never know to what extent but the Republic did reap some reward in this phase from the Irish exploits in West Germany. And that was due in no small way to you lot, our wonderfully-behaved ambassadors abroad.

Keep up the good work in Italy, but in the meantime why not take in a League of Ireland game or two. It would help the players to play in a better 'atmosphere'. And also act as a spur to those clubs who have not really got their act together to do so.

Try it sometime. It does make a change from the glossy, hyped-up TV productions.