Contagion Crisis LOI

[geezer]

forget the euro, fiscal crisis, banking crises, emf, essf, Angela, kenny
There is now a monsoon crisis with us in our beloved league

People, supporters everyone seriously need to sit down in Athlone or somewhere central and sort something out, develop a plan, organise themselves sharpish for the next few years otherwise its surely curtains

Can the Supporters groups call a conference, emergency meeting or something quickly or there will be no league to go back to

[Sam_Heggy]

This looks like being a fun thread

[bluewhitearmy]

forget the euro, fiscal crisis, banking crises, emf, essf, Angela, kenny
There is now a monsoon crisis with us in our beloved league

People, supporters everyone seriously need to sit down in Athlone or somewhere central and sort something out, develop a plan, organise themselves sharpish for the next few years otherwise its surely curtains

Can the Supporters groups call a conference, emergency meeting or something quickly or there will be no league to go back to


What would you expect them to be able to do ?

[geezer]

No magic solution unfortunately but from experience i found an attitude last year where supporters were the last people considered in any proposed solutions.
Everyone Players, officials, representatives in fact anyone that lives off the game for a living or expenses of some sort were all left in the game and supporters were expunged
This is wrong. Supporters pay for the league eventually and should be respected a bit more. It will be supporters that will save the league as well.

I found supporters when put to the test could keep the people coming to games despite 34 defeats, have the ability to up their game hugely in the communities and increase gates by a few very simple actions. There is no major marketing money required, no grants needed and no fancy booklet or TV exposure

I always remember going to Tolka Park when i was young with my father all excited walking down richmond road then been startled by an oul fella roaring out "move on" and peering out through a hole at the turnstile leaving me with a feeling of what could only be described as what it must be like to be a pig entering an abbatoir. lets just say going to the pictures seemed a lot more friendly.
There are still more people going to mass in small country parishes on a sunday up and down the country then going to the local loi games and we through a daft costly licence process insist on putting up these huge ugly barriers that scream keep away or ya wont get out, its more reflective of a visit to a lad in mountjoy than an enjoyable event

[A face]

No magic solution unfortunately but from experience i found an attitude last year where supporters were the last people considered in any proposed solutions.
Everyone Players, officials, representatives in fact anyone that lives off the game for a living or expenses of some sort were all left in the game and supporters were expunged
This is wrong. Supporters pay for the league eventually and should be respected a bit more. It will be supporters that will save the league as well.

I found supporters when put to the test could keep the people coming to games despite 34 defeats, have the ability to up their game hugely in the communities and increase gates by a few very simple actions. There is no major marketing money required, no grants needed and no fancy booklet or TV exposure

I always remember going to Tolka Park when i was young with my father all excited walking down richmond road then been startled by an oul fella roaring out "move on" and peering out through a hole at the turnstile leaving me with a feeling of what could only be described as what it must be like to be a pig entering an abbatoir. lets just say going to the pictures seemed a lot more friendly.
There are still more people going to mass in small country parishes on a sunday up and down the country then going to the local loi games and we through a daft costly licence process insist on putting up these huge ugly barriers that scream keep away or ya wont get out, its more reflective of a visit to a lad in mountjoy than an enjoyable event

Supporters cant expect to be listened to until there is an organised group of them to approach.

[legendz]

No magic solution unfortunately but from experience i found an attitude last year where supporters were the last people considered in any proposed solutions.
Everyone Players, officials, representatives in fact anyone that lives off the game for a living or expenses of some sort were all left in the game and supporters were expunged
This is wrong. Supporters pay for the league eventually and should be respected a bit more. It will be supporters that will save the league as well.

I found supporters when put to the test could keep the people coming to games despite 34 defeats, have the ability to up their game hugely in the communities and increase gates by a few very simple actions. There is no major marketing money required, no grants needed and no fancy booklet or TV exposure

I always remember going to Tolka Park when i was young with my father all excited walking down richmond road then been startled by an oul fella roaring out "move on" and peering out through a hole at the turnstile leaving me with a feeling of what could only be described as what it must be like to be a pig entering an abbatoir. lets just say going to the pictures seemed a lot more friendly.
There are still more people going to mass in small country parishes on a sunday up and down the country then going to the local loi games and we through a daft costly licence process insist on putting up these huge ugly barriers that scream keep away or ya wont get out, its more reflective of a visit to a lad in mountjoy than an enjoyable event
Agree 100%. Ye the supporters lucky to have a club, pay for the league and should be respected more.

Supporters cant expect to be listened to until there is an organised group of them to approach.
Agreed with that as well. All clubs need an organised group firstly. Possibly an organised group then with members from all clubs would be required as well to ask questions of the FAI.

As I've mentioned before, the FAI do get public funding. Organised supporters groups by clubs should be able to lobby local representatives (TDs) about asking more questions of the FAI regards the development of the game and league nationally.

[Spudulika]

The day that LOI fans (or Irish domestic soccer people in general) can come together en masse and fight for what is right is the day that David Norris gets hitched to Nell McCafferty. Can't and won't happen. Soccer in Ireland has been developed (and governed) by the FAI so that insular interests will always win out. Would absolutely love for something proper and decent to happen, but we're too beholden to "them across the water" and their warped sporting values for anything to take root.

[Hairy Bowsie]

This group has been started on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/events/252777901503825/#!/events/252777901503825/?notif_t=plan_user_joined

For those not on facebook it reads


"Potential meeting to discuss representation of LoI supporters"

"This past week has seen the collapse of another senior club in Ireland's top division with the frustration of League of Ireland fans expressed online and through banners at grounds up and down the country.

Having been involved in a very limited way in the past and seeing the good work done by supporters trusts, ultras, bloggers and volunteers, I wanted to see if there would be interest in a meeting about what fans can do to help address the problems the league faces together. A date and location can be set later on.

If you are interested in doing so, please click on attending so we can get an idea of numbers. If you have thoughts please share them below while keeping them civil and positive. Thanks

You can get in touch with me at xrockridgex@gmail.com. In the interests of full disclosure, I'm a Shels fan who has blogged on the league in a few different places.
Lee"

Anyone any interest?

[SkStu]

Will post on the Bohs mb, bowsie.

[Acornvilla]

I like the idea of the FB page, good that someones at least gotten the ball rolling. Let the rabbling commence.

[Spudulika]

Wedding bells in D2?

[geezer]

no point having a bitch fest either or a harmless moan in a pub.

I think a forum or a type of speed funding type scenario where every idea, whinge etc is gathered and colated. Maybe Supporters Direct could advise.

We can moan all we like but the FAI is our association too and we have to get a scenario where a conduit or working relationship can be established to benefit all, establish facts etc like is it €180,000 minimum to finish bottom of the 1st division.

[Hairy Bowsie]

It's another Shels fan thats behind this, i'm just spreading the word. Lads, a lot of you will know me as a very grumpy, cynical Shels fan who rarely posts here and something like this would come up and i'd normally be the first to dismiss it but I, We, just cannot ignore the fact that the league we support is in a very bad way and the people in charge of running it are making it worse. JD's behaviour in Poland, as Monaghan united when out of busness has to seen as a final straw by more than just me. I'm afraid of what can happen if we don't so something. As fans all we can do is try so i implore anyone who cares about any club within the league, if not the league itself to support this. There is strenght in numbers.


Thanks SkStu. Can someone from each of the other league clubs please put the word out on your respective forums, thanks.

[Mr A]

Clubs should be getting together on a regular basis anyway. I've been to a few LOI yokes on marketing run by the FAI and it's always fascinating to talk to people involved with other clubs. Keeping an LOI club is an uphill battle- and the experience that exists within the league in fighting that battle is immense. If only a little of that experience could be shared around and ideas shared there could be benefit in that.

Then there's the potential for things like shared fundraisers. Harps do very well out of our Monster Draw every year, but could we do every better if a bunch of clubs got together to create a common prize pot with the clubs keeping the majority of their own ticket sales? I think there used to be a GAA club that did something along these lines and did very well, and I think GUST have this sort of arrangement with local football clubs for their lotto.

So there is potential in clubs getting together- but the people keeping the show on the road are already flat out doing just that, which would be the major problem. This is the sort of thing you'd love to see the FAI put together and administer. Not much chance of that I'm afraid.

[Sean South]

Spread the word, get organised, get active. Apathy and moaning would change anything. It's on our MB too

[outspoken]

That facebook group sounds good in theory but when you read some of the comments on there you see potential for disaster because many are proposing anti-fai protests/banners/chants etc but either don't realise or don't care that THEIR club will be fined and it doesn't take a genious to tell you the clubs can't afford such continous fines. Also if there is no direct link between the group and the fai then we may as well just have a good old Internet debate at least that way the FAIlure might see our comments....that's just my 2cents on it.

[Acornvilla]

You have to expect people throwing in ideas left right and centre at the beginning. Things are always like that when you gather a group of people together. If handled correctly you take the best ideas and find a way to make it work. More discussion can only be a good thing, being afraid to try will get us nowhere.

To put it bluntly, not everyone will have the mental capacity to grasp the aim of the group, and thats the same in every walk of life, but you still have to let them have their voice, just hopefully if things are organized by people who have common sense their ''silly'' ideas and comments will be ignored. Your just scaremongering and dismissing the idea out of hand without actually giving things time to settle down. I would be reluctant to make a judgement until if and when a meeting has been held to see if this can become something more tangible than a fleeting idea. Starting is the hardest part mate..

[outspoken]

Well I've actually been talking to the guy running it and i've told him if it's run properly I'd love to help him with it but as I've said can see the potential for clubs getting fined through silly protests and banners.

[Sean South]

Was there a list of all supporters trusts, clubs, groups etc on this site before?

[Martinho II]

I am pretty sure there was a list taken before sean south for supporters trusts,clubs taken before!

[SkStu]

I posted on the Bohs mb but it was removed. Not sure why.

[Mr A]

There's always been a clear anti-Bohs agenda on that message board in fairness.

[SkStu]

Actually just noticed it was moved from the main forum to the LOI forum.

[outspoken]

Wasn't sure where to put this but what did everyone else make of fran gavins thoughts on mns last night?

[Park_Lane]

Wasn't sure where to put this but what did everyone else make of fran gavins thoughts on mns last night?

It was a typical defensive FAI interview, basically denying that there is any problem in the league and passing the buck.
And where did he get the statistic that 30 million has been put into the league to upgrade facillities etc? Or did I just dream that????

[Dodge]

A meeting organised on the forums and through facebook. These thigns usually go well

Most active fans in the league are involved with their clubs in some way anyway. Thats how you effect change. Start with your own club and sort them out before moving on. Say 10 Shels fans turn up at this meeting. Imagine the work the ten of them could do for Shels instead of trying to run an anti Delaney campaign (and I'm not saying that sa ll there'll be...)

If the clubs are being run shoddily (and most are) then what chance is there of a well run league? Mr A is spot on above. Clubs need to work together, and fans need to be a part of this. But it has to be in the same direction

[Trainee]

It was a typical defensive FAI interview, basically denying that there is any problem in the league and passing the buck.
And where did he get the statistic that 30 million has been put into the league to upgrade facillities etc? Or did I just dream that????

I think 30 million figure is money spent by all soccer clubs in Ireland (its includes underage, junior intermediate clubs etc). All this money didn't come from Fai, in fact most of it would have come through Govt grants and fundraising by clubs themselves.

Roddy made a valid point last night that only difference between league now and 30 years ago is that the players are better and the facilities are a joke, while most have improved so grounds in premier div are not fit to host underage games, in first div some grounds are just a field with a fence.

Fran and the rest of the board running the league are just a bunch of clowns in suits(sorry for insulting clowns).

Any ideas how fans from all clubs protest against these clowns

[Partizan]

I think 30 million figure is money spent by all soccer clubs in Ireland (its includes underage, junior intermediate clubs etc). All this money didn't come from Fai, in fact most of it would have come through Govt grants and fundraising by clubs themselves.

Roddy made a valid point last night that only difference between league now and 30 years ago is that the players are better and the facilities are a joke, while most have improved so grounds in premier div are not fit to host underage games, in first div some grounds are just a field with a fence.

Fran and the rest of the board running the league are just a bunch of clowns in suits(sorry for insulting clowns).

Any ideas how fans from all clubs protest against these clowns

In all fairness when I started following Waterford back in 1985/86 season, the vast majority of grounds with the honourable exceptions of Miltown, Flower Lodge and Dalymount were absolute dumps with non existent facilities.

The big difference now and I agree with the Rodster is that the playing standards has improved immensely and Dalymount is an absolute dump.

[bennocelt]

Wasn't sure where to put this but what did everyone else make of fran gavins thoughts on mns last night?

I just kept thinking 400,000, 400, 000, 400,000...........

[Spudulika]

I thought he came across well, not much else he can say. As mentioned above the sum of money he mentioned could bear some scrutiny, but what made it ridiculous was having Stephen McGuinness on, especially with no Mons rep.

[Lim till i die]

A meeting like this of league fans could potentially be useful in so far as all gathered together they might get a small idea of just how clueless the average fan actually is when it comes to the ins and outs of how the league and the clubs are actually ran.

Or they could slap one another on the back and paint a few banners.

Whatever.

[outspoken]

A meeting like this of league fans could potentially be useful in so far as all gathered together they might get a small idea of just how clueless the average fan actually is when it comes to the ins and outs of how the league and the clubs are actually ran.

Or they could slap one another on the back and paint a few banners.

Whatever.

It's potentially a great idea but this is my problem with it...There is no direct link between the group and the people running the league or the FAI so even if they came up with the greatest ideas ever no one will hear about them only themselves so they might as well just post them on here! Also like you said it very well could turn into an anti-FAI fest resulting in bans for all the clubs because of banners, chants etc......Will be interesting to see how many of the 200+ that said they are going will actually turn up, hopefully it works out well for them, best of luck.

[marinobohs]

In all fairness when I started following Waterford back in 1985/86 season, the vast majority of grounds with the honourable exceptions of Miltown, Flower Lodge and Dalymount were absolute dumps with non existent facilities.

The big difference now and I agree with the Rodster is that the playing standards has improved immensely and Dalymount is an absolute dump.


.... and how are milltown and Flower Lodge getting on ?

[MariborKev]

Dodge is bang out.

Get involved in your own club, start making it better and then worry about the League.

Whatever grouping gets set up always gets accused of being biased.

[marinobohs]

Dodge is bang out.

Get involved in your own club, start making it better and then worry about the League.

Whatever grouping gets set up always gets accused of being biased.

Agree up to a point Kev but isn't each club "doing its own thing" part of the problem ? Yes, clubs need to get their own house in order but promoting the League, getting better licencing regulations etc is something I believe should be done centrally (ie FAI or similar)

[MariborKev]

Sorry MB,

I outlined my point poorly.

How many of those looking to set up an "anti-FAI" group, are involved in their clubs. How many of them have an honest/rational assessment of the state of their own clubs. There is no point going "Delaney Out" if you don't have an alternative to fill the vacuum.

Generally I tend to find that people who volunteer at their clubs tend to have the most pragmatic views of progress etc. Why? Because, they have a rasonable idea of what the challenges are and therefore aren't likely to go on mad rants about what should/should not be done.

[Lim till i die]

.... and how.................. Flower Lodge getting on ?

Far, far, better than any League Of Ireland ground you care to mention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1irc_U%C3%AD_Rinn) ;)

[wonder88]

Didn't Shelbourne under Ollie Byrne do their own thing, ditto Bohs and Drogheda. The problem with clubs doing their own thing is that they usually make a mess of their club and then start crying to everyone else involved in Irish soccer looking for a bailout.

[marinobohs]

So your idea of progress LTID is to sell grounds to the GAA ? At least Dalymount (bad as it is) is still in Irish football the other two grounds referenced (by partizan) are (1) a housing estate and (2) lost to the black arts.

........ give me decaying Dalymount anytime :rolleyes:

[marinobohs]

Sorry MB,

I outlined my point poorly.

How many of those looking to set up an "anti-FAI" group, are involved in their clubs. How many of them have an honest/rational assessment of the state of their own clubs. There is no point going "Delaney Out" if you don't have an alternative to fill the vacuum.

Generally I tend to find that people who volunteer at their clubs tend to have the most pragmatic views of progress etc. Why? Because, they have a rasonable idea of what the challenges are and therefore aren't likely to go on mad rants about what should/should not be done.

Dont get me wrong Kev I agree RE "Delaney out" mob offering little (enjoyable though it may be) but there is a need for pressure to be put on the FAI to come up with a business plan for development/saving the league. Within that structure clubs will then manage/mismanage their own affairs but whatever damage they inflict on themselves will not be constantly weakening the League overall. If that pressure can be brught to bear by a LOI fans group so be it, although I agree it is probobly not likely. Anyb business plan that is developed must have the input of those involved in the game (that must be apparent even to the FAI)


Suspect it will eventually take an embarrassment factor to force the FAI to act. God knows what further damage will be done before we reach that point.

[sullanefc]

So your idea of progress LTID is to sell grounds to the GAA ? At least Dalymount (bad as it is) is still in Irish football the other two grounds you referenced are (1) a housing estate and (2) lost to the black arts.

........ give me decaying Dalymount anytime :rolleyes:

Weren't Bohs going to sell Dalymount to a property developer recently until the deal fell through?? A bit hypocritical???

[marinobohs]

Weren't Bohs going to sell Dalymount to a property developer recently until the deal fell through?? A bit hypocritical???

Part of that sale (to Danninger) included a brand new 10,000 seater stadium in Harristown (Bohs would not move until it was ready). hardly the same as losing a ground to bogballers now is it ?

Besides, sale of Dalymount was only agreed because FAI said the club would not get any more maintenance/development grants unless we sold half the ground to Ollie Byrne for a ridiculous figure (effectively Bohs had no choice on keeping Dalymount)

[Dodge]

Didn't Shelbourne under Ollie Byrne do their own thing, ditto Bohs and Drogheda. The problem with clubs doing their own thing is that they usually make a mess of their club and then start crying to everyone else involved in Irish soccer looking for a bailout.

And some want these same people to run the league again...

[nigel-harps1954]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the FAI HAVE to run the league in order for them to keep running an international team under some rule the was brought in the late 90's? The same reason Wales had to run their national league or something along those lines?

[marinobohs]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the FAI HAVE to run the league in order for them to keep running an international team under some rule the was brought in the late 90's? The same reason Wales had to run their national league or something along those lines?

Think they have to have a national league (for Internatioal representation) not sure they have to run it (or indeed run it into the ground :()

[Dodge]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the FAI HAVE to run the league in order for them to keep running an international team under some rule the was brought in the late 90's? The same reason Wales had to run their national league or something along those lines?

No, it can be run seperately under their license.