Delaney Doesn't Know Theres A Crisis

[sullanefc]

Wow, that's a great interview. Now, I'm a big softie but I have to say JD made a good case for himself and his work there. I maintain that he can do wtf he likes at night. Fraternising with fellow Irish while away on a business trip is absolutely fine. I get p1ssed when I'm away on business, often with clients / potential clients / competitors / whoever (at nights) so why shouldn't he?

Fanning was resorting to ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) tactics in that regard wheraes he should have focused more on the FAI's own review processes etc. Better questions to ask would be along the lines of Sadlier's criticism of Emerging talent Programme, i.e., that it starts too late.

I'm all on for the FAI to be subject to public scrutiny and would like to have seen more probing questions wrt Koevermans legacy etc.

wrt Bonner being a potential threat to JD wasn't it Liam Brady, on arrival at Celtic, who noticed that Bonner was very underpaid versus his peers and had very little business acumen? Hardly a candidate for FAI CEO I'd have thought, great guy that he is and all that.

Dion certainly asked him a lot of the tough questions, I'd certainly like to have heard more about his attitude to the LOI and the way he fines clubs who's fans criticise him.

He certainly has the same slimey tongue of a politician, but I disagree with you Stuttgart88 when you say he should be allowed to socialise and get ****ed with fans. I have no problem with him wanting to build a rapport with fans, but getting into a state like he did is simply unprofessional IMO. Its also very hypocritical of him as he held a photo shoot in Lansdowne before the Euros about responsible drinking. Yeah right.

He will defend his stance on going on to the pitch thanking the fans, throwing his tie in to the crowd etc, but it is so naff and cringey. A good CEO would get all the work done quietly without being seen. The man IS a clown.

[Alf Honn]

Wow, that's a great interview. Now, I'm a big softie but I have to say JD made a good case for himself and his work there. I maintain that he can do wtf he likes at night. Fraternising with fellow Irish while away on a business trip is absolutely fine. I get p1ssed when I'm away on business, often with clients / potential clients / competitors / whoever (at nights) so why shouldn't he?

Fanning was resorting to ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) tactics in that regard wheraes he should have focused more on the FAI's own review processes etc. Better questions to ask would be along the lines of Sadlier's criticism of Emerging talent Programme, i.e., that it starts too late.

I'm all on for the FAI to be subject to public scrutiny and would like to have seen more probing questions wrt Koevermans legacy etc.

wrt Bonner being a potential threat to JD wasn't it Liam Brady, on arrival at Celtic, who noticed that Bonner was very underpaid versus his peers and had very little business acumen? Hardly a candidate for FAI CEO I'd have thought, great guy that he is and all that.

The arrogance of this fool knows no bounds.

He said in one of his many newspaper interviews before going that he couldn't bring his kids because he'd be too busy working.

And here he is langers roaming the streets of Sopot looking for the next rent-a-crowd to get pictures with. I was there with mates for the week and between us all, saw his mush stuck into pints on nearly every night. So much for the odd night out.

All this interview showed was how invincible he feels, which is a sad state for the game in Ireland.

A CEO is there to keep the association stable but he doesn't even answer questions about finances, even though he buried the FAI into 50M of debt.

Wasn't that long ago he was bragging about all the money he'd made the FAI. All he's making now is a bigger clown of himself.

If only someone could sack him...

[paul_oshea]

I dont know enough about Delaney and what he does in the FAI to answer with fair reasoning whether he is doing a good job or not. I'd question the motives of LOI fans, when it comes to Delaney, at best they are probably looking for a scapegoat, it always easier to blame someone else.

I have gotten p1ssed on work nights out, it doesn't and hasn't effected my work, or my contract renewals. People really do lead very simple of lives to be worrying about a CEO getting ****ed on a sojourn. If it was Michael D as a representative of the Country getting ****ed then yes fair enough, but John Delaney is not representing the country or its people.

I would like to see some facts for why people are so against him. Has he reduced debt from 7million to 140k last year since taking over the LOI? He obviously has issues with the debt around the stadium, if it was healthy he would be more than happy to discuss it externally, or at least gives estimated figures. But he is adamant by 2020 it will be cleared, i reckon he is crossing his fingers for brazil and euro 2016 to ensuring this debt is cleared. That is a gamble, like a lot of banks before the recession, you are relying on increased performance, it could seriously backfire.

I reckon this emerging talent could be a bit of a smokescreen, is it actually benefiting any teams at international level? The development officers thing is definitely a plus and although there is only 1 in the region where i'm from(and they have produced 2 connaght cup winners in the last few years), its certainly better than none.

[Stuttgart88]

I don't think the "too busy working to bring his family" remark is incompatible with drinking at night. I think the "drink aware" advocacy is a better point. I'd be a rank hypocrite if I ever did that - I'd have to delegate it!

I'm coming across all JD-ccentric here which I'm not, but again, he took professional advice from a subsidiary of IMG on Aviva ticket corporate sales and then the whole economic ponzi scheme came crashing down. Some warned it would, but wouldn't we all have loved to have called it right in fairness?

I think there are tougher and more pertinent questions that could be asked.

[Junior]

Of course there are many more pertinent questions that could be and should be asked but you can see by the responses to the difficult/tricky questions that were asked that the atmosphere of the interview began to change. Brick wall and politician responses became order of the day.

I don't know what positions Stutts and POS hold at their respective employers but I too have got drunk on work do's, moreso when I was much younger and certainly never in a position of responsibility. JD is Head Honcho on a salary of 400k and is 'working'. Having a meal and a few drinks, perhaps a few photos and then slipping off back to hotel is what I would expect. I don't expect some eejit, getting drunk acting the bufoon, effing and jeffing and acting like some sort of celebratory. It's completely inappropriate and for all the positive influences he says his tenure has had on Irish football I simply can't take this man seriously. I suppose it's easier to win 'votes' by taking your shoes off and singing with a raised glass and slainté than address the needs of a continually failing domestic football league (amongst other issues of course).

I am not knowledgeable enough in the detailed issues or problems on the LOI to offer constructive suggestions and it may appear like a cheap shot at JD but I think it's justified as its only in response to a cheap attempt at positive PR on his behalf.

[sullanefc]

I'd question the motives of LOI fans, when it comes to Delaney, at best they are probably looking for a scapegoat, it always easier to blame someone else.

A scapegoat? Yeah, the ills of the LOI are nothing to do with JD. He is only the CEO of the FAI. :rolleyes:


I have gotten p1ssed on work nights out, it doesn't and hasn't effected my work, or my contract renewals. People really do lead very simple of lives to be worrying about a CEO getting ****ed on a sojourn.
Getting p*ssed isn't a crime. But if you are doing so at your own work, in front of customers, then I'd be questioning your professionalism if I was your boss. But then, I don't know your line of work, maybe it's a plus in your industry.

But JD is a public person, who speaks on behalf of all the soccer community of Ireland. His actions in Poland do not paint him, or the association, in a good light, and this is a problem IMO. It also does not send a good message to all the kids playing soccer up and down the country either. Is it right that the head of football in Ireland feels that its appropriate to associate going to football matches and getting hammered?

*cue someone posting a jpg of Helen Lovejoy exclaiming "think of the chidren"

[Alf Honn]

I dont know enough about Delaney and what he does in the FAI to answer with fair reasoning whether he is doing a good job or not. I'd question the motives of LOI fans, when it comes to Delaney, at best they are probably looking for a scapegoat, it always easier to blame someone else.

I have gotten p1ssed on work nights out, it doesn't and hasn't effected my work, or my contract renewals. People really do lead very simple of lives to be worrying about a CEO getting ****ed on a sojourn. If it was Michael D as a representative of the Country getting ****ed then yes fair enough, but John Delaney is not representing the country or its people.

I would like to see some facts for why people are so against him. Has he reduced debt from 7million to 140k last year since taking over the LOI? He obviously has issues with the debt around the stadium, if it was healthy he would be more than happy to discuss it externally, or at least gives estimated figures. But he is adamant by 2020 it will be cleared, i reckon he is crossing his fingers for brazil and euro 2016 to ensuring this debt is cleared. That is a gamble, like a lot of banks before the recession, you are relying on increased performance, it could seriously backfire.

I reckon this emerging talent could be a bit of a smokescreen, is it actually benefiting any teams at international level? The development officers thing is definitely a plus and although there is only 1 in the region where i'm from(and they have produced 2 connaght cup winners in the last few years), its certainly better than none.


2020...Are you serious?

This chancer's track record shows he can't be believed on anything. Where do we start...

Remember the World class manager promise the night he stuck the knife into Kerr? (we got Stan instead)

The pledge of selling over 8,000 vantage club seats in a year...(there's no proof they've even sold 6k)

Huge prize money for LoI as a reason for the FAI to take full control (that didn't last long)

Massive commercial revenue from Euros (did they even get one new sponsor?)

And the best of the best...Team 33!

Delaney may be a fool but so are people to be fooled by him.

[Stuttgart88]

Junior, I fully take the point that JD was courting favour among the fans - as he did in Estonia and to a more justifiable extent in Slovakia by chartering the train to Zilnia - but I don't think he courted the publicity in Poland. Camera phones and youtube are a deadly combination. Christ, I'm not sure I could ever be a public figure in this day and age.

I'm not fooled by anyone Alf, just looking for proper reasons to doubt or prove his competence. I think there's no doubt whatsoever that he's a very canny political operator.

[osarusan]

I wonder will Daniel McDonnell write anything in reply to that interview. He's usually very good at responding with specific details to the kind of broad claims Delaney made.

[Junior]

Junior, I fully take the point that JD was courting favour among the fans - as he did in Estonia and to a more justifiable extent in Slovakia by chartering the train to Zilnia - but I don't think he courted the publicity in Poland. Camera phones and youtube are a deadly combination. Christ, I'm not sure I could ever be a public figure in this day and age.

I'm not fooled by anyone Alf, just looking for proper reasons to doubt or prove his competence. I think there's no doubt whatsoever that he's a very canny political operator.

We shall have to agree to disagree re: Poland. If it happened once then perhaps I could agree/ be swayed but from what I can gather it was most nights.

I agree though it's all rather a distraction from the real issues at hand. No coincidence in that either I suspect.

[bennocelt]

I dont know enough about Delaney and what he does in the FAI to answer with fair reasoning whether he is doing a good job or not. I'd question the motives of LOI fans, when it comes to Delaney, at best they are probably looking for a scapegoat, it always easier to blame someone else.

I have gotten p1ssed on work nights out, it doesn't and hasn't effected my work, or my contract renewals. People really do lead very simple of lives to be worrying about a CEO getting ****ed on a sojourn. If it was Michael D as a representative of the Country getting ****ed then yes fair enough, but John Delaney is not representing the country or its people.

I would like to see some facts for why people are so against him. Has he reduced debt from 7million to 140k last year since taking over the LOI? He obviously has issues with the debt around the stadium, if it was healthy he would be more than happy to discuss it externally, or at least gives estimated figures. But he is adamant by 2020 it will be cleared, i reckon he is crossing his fingers for brazil and euro 2016 to ensuring this debt is cleared. That is a gamble, like a lot of banks before the recession, you are relying on increased performance, it could seriously backfire.

.


Funny how the ole ole brigade always stand by their man:rolleyes:
While the LOi is dying on its arse the CEO makes a show of himself, buying friends with drink is a joke. easy to be so savy with your money when you are "earning" 400,000 a year for doing sweet fa. Id buy anyone a pint myself if i was on that wage

[tetsujin1979]

Funny how the ole ole brigade always stand by their man:rolleyes:
While the LOi is dying on its arse the CEO makes a show of himself, buying friends with drink is a joke. easy to be so savy with your money when you are "earning" 400,000 a year for doing sweet fa. Id buy anyone a pint myself if i was on that wage
Read an article last year about what an average day is for Delaney, suffice it to say, he does not do "sweet fa"
And that's not his wages either

[paul_oshea]

2020...Are you serious?

This chancer's track record shows he can't be believed on anything. Where do we start...

Remember the World class manager promise the night he stuck the knife into Kerr? (we got Stan instead)

The pledge of selling over 8,000 vantage club seats in a year...(there's no proof they've even sold 6k)

Huge prize money for LoI as a reason for the FAI to take full control (that didn't last long)

Massive commercial revenue from Euros (did they even get one new sponsor?)

And the best of the best...Team 33!

Delaney may be a fool but so are people to be fooled by him.

I'm not fooled by anyone, but I don't know enough either way. I also know the innate irish trait is knock and look for excuses rather than take responsibility or do something about it ourselves. We are a nation of knockers.

3 or 4 of those points come down to the same thing, recession, its hardly delaneys fault that commercial streams/marketing/advertising revenues all dried up in the last 4/5 years, if he could have predicted that, he certainly wouldn't have been CEO of the FAI.

The Stan thing was a joke, but we all makes mistakes, if he has learnt from that, then thats the most important thing.

I'd like to hear what he has done, and what he hasn't done. Forget about the stadium, as i know its a huge bug bear for most, and rightfully so, but he consulted on most aspects and went with what he was advised, the recession has played a big part in the expected revenues to be generated from it, so I'd be willing to forgive him on this one.

What i wouldn't forgive though, is playing russian roulette with Debt, based on expected results and/or qualifications. Thats like shels/bohs trying to buy the title over the years, and when things go pete tong, ending up in near collapse. You can't do that with the Governing organisation of football in Ireland.

[bennocelt]

Read an article last year about what an average day is for Delaney, suffice it to say, he does not do "sweet fa"
And that's not his wages either

Yeah because the facts speak for themselves - LOI falling apart, duff national team manager, nice FAI debt, no real effort to have an academy or decent under age structure, and he gets more than the Prez. How are those premium ticket sales going along, did you buy one yourself?
He spent 30,000 euros on drink - and thats not embarrassing!:eek: he is taking the pee

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah because the facts speak for themselves - LOI falling apart, duff national team manager, nice FAI debt, no real effort to have an academy or decent under age structure, and he gets more than the Prez. How are those premium ticket sales going along, did you buy one yourself?
He spent 30,000 euros on drink - and thats not embarrassing!:eek: he is taking the pee
any facts to back up that figure?

[bennocelt]

any facts to back up that figure?


http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/fai-chief-takes-grave-offence-at-sopot-criticism-198615.html

[tetsujin1979]

any links to the original article mentioned here -
In weekend interviews, Mr Delaney claimed he had spent some €30,000 of his own money on fans during his reign and took "grave offence" at criticism of his socialising while in Poland.

[Stuttgart88]

Just on Stan, he wasn't appointed by himself. Sir Bobby Robson was appointed alongside Stan to have a very hands-on role. SBR took ill very shortly afterwards and just before WC06 campaign started as far as I recall. The plans were torn up immediately. It seems that Kerr had lost the dressing room, so Stan's relationship with the players was seen as an important ingredient, as was his leadership qualities. SBR brought the tactical, coaching and international knowledge after a glittering club career in several major football countries. I personally never saw much in the brains department in our Stan, but one can see why the dual appointment made sense. OK, maybe a replacement should have been found for SBR once he took ill and it's a fair point that maybe the Stan / SBR combo was never a good one anyway. He should only have been a no. 2 at most.

Is the LOI falling apart or has one team not just overstretched itself? I'm not taking the FAI's side here but "fixing" the LOI is a very demanding task and if punters want a higher standard of professional football in Ireland LOI supporters may not support what might be required. I'm playing devil's advocate here: might more LOI clubs have gone bust if the licensing regime hadn't been introduced?

Sorry, I also don't buy into the argument that XYZ should earn less than An Taoiseach or the President. You need the right package to attract the right person for the role in an open employment market* - although I firmly believe that in both the public and private sectors senior executives have been getting paid too much for delivering too little. Executive pay has become a major issue in the UK (where I live) and shareholders are only now getting antsy about it. An FT columnist recently claimed that many corporate CEOs are effectively "looting" their companies.

* I don't believe we have a properly functioning employment market. Instead we have a dysfunctional market rigged by insiders whose talents and performance don't match their remuneration, of opinion of themselves. As the CEO of Shell said after he stepped down - if they paid me half as much I'd have worked exactly as hard.

[Junior]

* I don't believe we have a properly functioning employment market. Instead we have a dysfunctional market rigged by insiders whose talents and performance don't match their remuneration, of opinion of themselves. As the CEO of Shell said after he stepped down - if they paid me half as much I'd have worked exactly as hard.

Interesting, in the Fanning interview - JD effectively said if he needs to take a 'cut' he will or words to those effect - I get the impression his view would be similar to the Shell's CEO. It will be intetresting to see if there are any more redundancies or cost cutting exercises affecting lower graded staff in the aftermath of the poor tournament. One single point out of those three games would have funded JD's salary for a year or 3 points would have funded the FAI's share of Trap's salary for a year. Perhaps they both should have a think about it!!

But those two taking a wage cut will not solve many (if any) problems in all honesty, though it might help to maintain a level of support through the turnstiles...

[ArdeeBhoy]

They have already got rid of virtually all the FAI's ticket office staff, instead using those leeches Ticketmaster instead...

[jbyrne]

They have already got rid of virtually all the FAI's ticket office staff, instead using those leeches Ticketmaster instead...

last summer it took about 4 calls to the ticket office and countless emails to sort my season ticket arrangements (drop my allocation from 4 to 3 and have someone who only has one ST allocated a seat beside us). the saga went on for weeks and we ended up with worse seats than we started with.

this time i wanted to move us back to where our tickets were first time around and pay for someone elses over the phone at the same time. the call to ticketmaster lasted about 3 mins and all was sorted.

thats why they farmed the tickets to ticketmaster instead of keeping it in-house. the once very reliable FAI ticket office had become a mess

[SkStu]

im not sure if it is intentional positioning by Stutts and Paul but it is not just the LOI that is the issue here in terms of Irish football. To categorise this as just the baying of LOI heads is unfair.

The Irish international team is not set for future success. We do not have quality players coming through the English system anymore and we do not have the same quantity of players coming through the same system due to the influx of "foreigners" (arent we foreigners too? Aaaanyway...). Therefore, it is fair to say that something is not working or could be working better. That includes, amongst a whole host of issues, the LOI. Perhaps LOI fans are the most vocal but the calls have been for reform of the game here, analysis and consideration of the structure of the game here, the set-up of clubs at all levels, the coaching of young players, the coaching philosophy at all levels of the game, the retention of our young players until it is more appropriate for them to move, finding ways to use the league or other mechanisms to do this, and so on.

I will reiterate that until we have someone who will look at these things, select a plan, put that plan to work and make some hard decisions, we are doomed to the international wilderness for the foreseeable future. It might be okay for the next 5-10 years but we are on the precipice. He may do the administrative side of things okay (i.e. those fundamental functions that need to be done by any CEO) but if Delaney cannot or will not take the bull by the horns, make some difficult decisions and stop playing politics and acting the clown then he should be removed and we should get someone in who is prepared to do it poperly.

[Stuttgart88]

Where have I or Paul said it's just the baying of LOI heads?

My personal suspicion is that JD has too much power and isn't held to account strongly enough but when you see grass roots / junior football stakeholders writing to the IT, complaining about Emmet Malone's one-sided article and praising JD's work and interest in the grass roots then I need more than simply citing the LOI as evidence he's not doing a good job.

I've said before that I think running football in Ireland is a thankless task, as is trying to make the most out of the LOI. The Irish public and media are in thrall to England. English and a lot of European football is out of control and Ireland can't get anywhere near competing financially. If we can't afford to make a good product then the public won't pay to watch the product. I find it hard to blame JD for that. There's such a deep anti-JD feeling on this forum that LTID had to apologise for daring to play devil's advocate on a JD thread in the LOI forum. The LOI forum can't even agree the best structure for the league (10 or 16 teams for example).

Now, I thought JD argued well to Fanning that the Energing Talent programme was a good initiative. The best put down of that argument was Sadlier saying it starts too late, at 14. This is the type of critical appraisal I need to avoid falling into the obvious "sack the board" rants of football fans.

What I want is proper informed evidence that JD is not delivering for Irish football in a country obsessed with English teams, GAA and where we have European champions playing rugby. A lot of the KPIs seem to be more than half-full (U19 boys, U17 girls, improvement in the U21s*...). I couldn't care less if that opinion comes from a LOI head or a so-called barstooler!

* how Givens kept his job so long is a matter for public inquiry in itself.

[Stuttgart88]

Isn't the key point that the whole Irish football pyramid has to be joined up, with the LOI being the absolute peak of the domestic game and with every level aspiring to either move up to a higher level or provide players for a higher level, rather than the various tiers seeking to get players to England as early as possible unless they're exceptional? We need a style of football taught to all levels of the pyramid and for underage football to emphasise fun and skill rather than simply results.

If this is what Stu means by a plan then I'm all for it. Is unifying all the factions (a) a goal and (b) achievable?

[SkStu]

Where have I or Paul said it's just the baying of LOI heads?

My personal suspicion is that JD has too much power and isn't held to account strongly enough but when you see grass roots / junior football stakeholders writing to the IT, complaining about Emmet Malone's one-sided article and praising JD's work and interest in the grass roots then I need more than simply citing the LOI as an evidence he's not doing a good job.

I've said before that running football in Ireland is a thankless task, as is trying to make the most out of the LOI. The Irish public and media are in thrall to England. English and a lot of European football is out of control and Ireland can't get anywhere near competing financially. If we can't afford to make a good product then the public won't pay to watch the product. I find it hard to blame JD for that. There's such a deep anti-JD feeling on this forum that LTID had to apologise for daring to play devil's advocate on a JD thread in the LOI forum. The LOI forum can't even agree the best structure for the league (10 or 16 teams for example).

Now, I thought JD argued well to Fanning that the Energing Talent programme was a good initiative. the best put down of that argument was Sadlier saying it starts too late, at 14.

What I want is proper informed evidence that JD is not delivering for Irish football in a country obsessed with English teams, GAA and where we have European champions playing rugby. A lot of the KPIs seem to be more than half-full. I couldn't care less if that opinion comes from a LOI head or a so-called barstooler!

its the impression im getting from your posts.

With regards to your post - after me saying that it is more than just the LOI and listing a whole load of things that need to be looked at, two-thirds of your post was in response to the LOI angle... :)

also, its not about competing financially with England/Europe which a lot of people seem to think is what is required, its about making the most of our lot and making the most of our own power to have a successful national team that can be supported by a highly functioning domestic game. The FAI have charged themselves with that but have not delivered. I have no ambitions for the LOI other than it to become a selling/feeder league but lets do it the smart way and not lose our 15-16 year olds to English clubs or sell the few success stories there have been for pittance. This is all under the remit of the FAI by their own demand.

But as i said there is so much wrong with Irish football - from supporters to clubs to administration. Its rotten to the core. I think the evidence is all around you Stuttgart, youre just choosing not to see it.

[SkStu]

Isn't the key point that the whole Irish football pyramid has to be joined up, with the LOI being the absolute peak of the domestic game and with every level aspiring to either move up to a higher level or provide players for a higher level, rather than the various tiers seeking to get players to England as early as possible unless they're exceptional? We need a style of football taught to all levels of the pyramid and for underage football to emphasise fun and skill rather than simply results.

If this is what Stu means by a plan then I'm all for it. Is unifying all the factions (a) a goal and (b) achievable?

Bingo! (pretty much)

By the way, it is c) non-negotiable.

Which will require a larger pair of bolloks than currently sits in HQ.

[SkStu]

Bingo! (pretty much)

By the way, it is c) non-negotiable.

Which will require a larger pair of bolloks than currently sits in HQ.

to avoid any confusion there are plenty of big bolloks' in HQ right now. Im talking about having the cojones to make change...

[Stuttgart88]

its the impression im getting from your posts.

With regards to your post - after me saying that it is more than just the LOI and listing a whole load of things that need to be looked at, two-thirds of your post was in response to the LOI angle... :)
I think you have a persecution complex! I'm far more open minded than you think.

[Stuttgart88]

Bingo! (pretty much)

By the way, it is c) non-negotiable.

Which will require a larger pair of bolloks than currently sits in HQ.Yey! We agree.

Anyway, Ive a semi final to watch...

[SkStu]

I think you have a persecution complex!

I definitely do. Im a LOI fan. :)

[Macy]

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

Just because some at different levels are defending him does not mean he's doing a good job for the long term development of the game.

[Stuttgart88]

Macy, this answers a question I asked in the FAI Governance thread - is the structure efficient? 61 members from a range of often disparate (and competing?) stakeholders must ratify strategic decisions taken by an Executive which they hold accountable means that even if JD and the Executive had balls the size of oranges nothing could get done because some tosser representing Defence Forces (as an example of what I assume is arelatively irrelevant stakeholder these days - just as Oxford & Cambridge Universities have Council positions in the FA, or did) might vote against it. So, isn't this debate now making progress?

[SkStu]

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

Good post. thats what i mean about need to have the balls to make tough decisions and stand by them. Certain things need to be non-negotiable.

[Noelys Guitar]

The so called grass roots carpet bombed todays Irish Times letters page in support of their leader Delaney. Laughable stuff.

[Stuttgart88]

But does the governance structure of the FAI allow for ballsy decisions to be made? In one sense what you're crying out for here is an autocratic dictator but one with the right plan. Instead the CEO has to implement what his Council members are constitutionally compelling him to do. Of course you can also argue that JD is happy to appease the most powerful blocks of stakeholders because that's what keeps him in his well-paid job. These are the issues that proper appraisal of the FAI's Governance structure should address.

If it's OK by the rest of you I may copy these last few posts into the Governance thread. There've been more pertinent issues raised here in the last 2 hours than any article by Malone or Fanning.

[Stuttgart88]

The so called grass roots carpet bombed todays Irish Times letters page in support of their leader Delaney. Laughable stuff.Laughable because it supports Delaney or laiughable because they're an entrenched / untouchable vested interest? What would be interesting is a letter to the IT from a Council member complaining about Delaney. That would add weight. Instead the only published complaint came from a disgruntled fan, the "sack the board" brigade which I tend to ignore.

[Alf Honn]

Macy, this answers a question I asked in the FAI Governance thread - is the structure efficient? 61 members from a range of often disparate (and competing?) stakeholders must ratify strategic decisions taken by an Executive which they hold accountable means that even if JD and the Executive had balls the size of oranges nothing could get done because some tosser representing Defence Forces (as an example of what I assume is arelatively irrelevant stakeholder these days - just as Oxford & Cambridge Universities have Council positions in the FA, or did) might vote against it. So, isn't this debate now making progress?

Way wide of the mark. The 61 don't ratify, they nod their heads.

Delaney defends all his decisions on the basis of board approval (that's him + 9). He boasted recently that the council are fed a board report at their 4-times per year meetings. Its a free lunch then.

God forbid something like Delaney's massive undeserved contract extension til 2015 be put to the Council to be ratified. Someone might have queried it! That would be more democratic but not the case under his regime.

And above all, is he the best we can do? There's a ready-made replacement living back in Ireland...Niall Quinn.

[Deckydee]

Delaney at it again!

http://www.joe.ie/euro-2012/euro-2012-news/video-is-there-anything-to-be-said-for-another-video-of-a-drunken-john-delaney-in-poland-0026333-1

[paul_oshea]

Part of the problem is the power and influence the so called grass roots have. of course they support Delaney - he's made no attempt to take them on and put in place a structure for player development that'll effect them. how do you reckon they'd react to following the Spanish example on competitive underage games? What would they do without the chance to win, at all costs, an under 11 league title?

Just because some at different levels are defending him does not mean he's doing a good job for the long term development of the game.

Thats an interesting point, like most associations, the leader isn't going to bite off the hand that feeds him. The thing is though, Sean kelly when elected president of the GAA, his main goal was to open up croke park, and he said as much at the time. Now when he was first elected, there was nowhere near a 2/3s manority support to do so. But yet he did it, so it can be done. The point I'm making is a strong leader can direct an association/organisation along a path he so wishes, by being a good politician, and a stern enforcer when needs be. Delaney is certainly a good politician.

I take on board your original point, not sure about the conclusion resulting from the fact that at u11 win at all costs mentality, but when I was a young fella, and i think the attitude has changed even more so now, until we were about 13 there was no emphasis on winning, it was all about enjoying ourselves. Added Rant : Which actually p1ssed me off, because we had a good underage side, and some very good individual players, 1 in particular, who fell by the wayside, becasue of no proper management or scouts or motivation to continue on.

[Uncle_Joe]

Does anyone have any inside knowledge of the runnings of the schoolboy leagues particularly the DDSL?
I was reading a piece someone posted in another thread about Wim Koevermans and the work he was doing and how some of the ideas were obstructed by the Schoolboy leagues. This came up again on Off The Ball on Tuesday where they had a youth coach Antonio Mantero (Portuguese, I think) who seems quiet passionate Irish football at grassroots level. He talked about a lot of recurring points in youth development like smaller pitches, more touches for players, a ideology of youth coaching where the focus is on playing and developing skill rather than winning and how these ideas don't fit into the schoolboy league setup. They attract young players, win leagues, build on their reputation, attract more young players, win leagues and so on.
From what I gather their focus is on results and not the development of players. Any restructuring of the FAI structure from top to bottom would need to have some backing of the schoolboy clubs and how likely are they to vote for something that could bring an end to their environment?

If anyone is interested here is a link to the Off The Ball interview, It was on Tuesday 26th, on Part 3 about 30 minutes in.
http://www.newstalk.ie/programmes/all/offtheball/listen-back/

And here is a link to the guy's (Antonio Mantero) blog http://www.thecoachdiary.com/ which I think makes for some interesting reading for anyone interested in grassroots football in Ireland

[bennocelt]

good article from rte.ie
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0627/326781-alan-cawleys-airtricity-league-blog/?utm_source=NewsWhip (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish/2012/0627/326781-alan-cawleys-airtricity-league-blog/?utm_source=NewsWhip)

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, I think Quinn would be a capable and popular choice as per Alf'ssuggestion.

I've actually got a lot on today so don't have time to inspect the constitution but it looks like the Board has full control over strategic decisions. The Board is made up of honorary roles and the heads of the main permanent committees (finance, domestic, underage, development, legal & corporate, international, national league) and the CEO. This is 10 in total because some of the honorary roles automatically invoke chairmanship of some of the committees. The CEO sits on the finance, legal & corporate and national league committees but not domestic, underage, international or development.

The Council is responsible for monitoring the FAI and the FAI board, and has the power to take "such decisions as are necessary for the effective governance and control of The Association".

As Alf says, Council meets 4 times a year and special meetings can also be convened. These meetings are to discuss the reports fed to them by the Board and to provide feedback to the Board - but seemingly only if the Board asks for it (rule 15(h). Rule 15 (d) is interesting:

The Council shall have the power to remove the Board and/or the Honorary Officers and/or any individual member of the Council by a two-thirds majority vote of those present and voting on a motion submitted 14 days in advance of a meeting of the Council and signed by at least 20 Council members.

So, does this mean only the entire Board can be removed, rather than an individual? I suppose special meetings can be convened to remove individuals or discuss their pay.

What looks odd to me - I don't know how it works in other organisations - is that the Board and senior management appear to be more or less the same. Let's take a typical company. It has shareholders, a Board of Directors, and full-time management. The Board's job is to monitor management on behalf of shareholders but also to steer a strategic path for the company and delegate the running of the company to management. Shareholders can hold the Board to account by a re-election process and the Board can fire managers.

In the FAI, Council is essentially the shareholders, but there isn't a clear distinction between the Board and the management. The Council also includes the 5 honorary Board roles but I don't think they can vote unless it's in their capacity as another representative (say, of a LOI club?). So, it would appear that the bridge between Council and the Board is the Honorary members, who each has a foot in both camps. The Honorary positions are subject to maximum terms and re-election (President, VP, Hon Treasurer, Hon Sec) so a stronger degree of Council control exists here I suppose. The Chairman of the National League is an honorary Board member and serves a term as nominated by that committee, I think.

I don't see any means of removing the non-Honorary Board members other than full removal of the Board (15d) or a special meeting. Each method requires at least 20 of 61 Council members to propose such an action, followed by a vote requiring a 2/3 majority - so removal or sanction of a Board member would appear quite tough.

Other than the 5 Honorary Board members, the remaining Council membership consists of 22 LOI club representatives, 18 provincial reps (weighted by size of province), and samll numbers of reps from Junior, Schools, Womens, Universities, Defence Forces, Referees etc. LOI clubs have a fair amount of collective power then - more than I'd thought.

[Stuttgart88]

The thanks button is missing today, so thanks Uncle Joe - v interesting. Irish Soccer on its Knees blog is very good. Informed, insider opinion is really useful.

Where do the schools representatives fit into the governance structure (so how much influence do they have - nominally anyway?)?

They are represented on (but don't dominate) the international, underage, development and finance committees - the heads of each of these is a Board member.

The SFAI and FAIS has 6 Council seats.

[barney]

I’ve heard talk of reform for 20-25 years and every time, people mention how young lads are being sent onto a full size pitch which promotes hoofball. I’ve never, ever heard anyone dispute the fact that putting eleven year olds on a full sized pitch is plain wrong. Everyone I know of believes it’s dumb. Therefore, why do we still do it? I watched my nephew a few weeks ago who is 12 and up to my knee. He played on a full sized pitch but, despite having a good touch and a good football brain for his age, he was forced to hoof it like everyone else. They have no option on that size of a pitch. Why do we still put our young lads on these pitches? Who thinks it’s a good idea?

There was a good piece I saw in the Indo (English version) about how, as a kid in this part of the world, you are always taught ‘if in doubt, boot it out’. We’ve all heard it, we’ve probably subscribed to it on some level but it promotes hoofball. I’ve heard it at LOI grounds when defenders come under pressure from the same people who demand a passing game. Our mentality of ‘hoof it’ is wrong and if we want to produce ball players like Xavi, Pirlo and Iniesta, we have to change it.

[Stuttgart88]

That Portuguese bloke's blog asks what is the underage committee:

COMPOSITION OF UNDERAGE COMMITTEE
a. Four representatives from the S.F.A.I.
b. Two representatives from the F.A.I.S.
c. Two representatives from the W.F.A.I.
d. One representative from the FAI National League participant clubs
e. One representative from the Youth Committee
f. One representative to be elected by Council.
g. One representative to be selected by the Selection Sub Committee.

In selecting this member, the Selection Sub Committee shall select only from the S.F.A.I, F.A.I.S and W.F.A.I., on the clear understanding that none of the aforementioned affiliates shall have more than five members on this Committee. The person selected may not be a representative of the same affiliate as the person elected.


The Rule book does not define the objectives of the underage committee and (e) above is the only mention of the Youth committee.

[Charlie Darwin]

Delaney again. On the plane home from the Manchester United match (a great victory for Irish football), supposedly asked twice to stop using the f- and c-words, plus singing "we beat the scum". A new low...

https://twitter.com/Martink82/status/290581476708347904
https://twitter.com/dv9876/status/290596502303297536

[Charlie Darwin]

John Delaney. 500k a year CEO of FAI. **** faced. He's buying drinks for the whole plane and taxis home for all.

John Delaney has promised us a sing song but only when we get airborne. He wants the de icing to happen first.

John Delaney not buying drinks. All sobered up. Plane going nowhere. Mood is not good on the ground. Turns out John Delaney is sound.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BAg2Tn5CcAAzmHc.jpg

[DannyInvincible]

How can this even be real? He's becoming a parody of himself.

[Charlie Darwin]

Becoming?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Can I play devil's advocate and posit this might not be true? It's a few Twitter accounts and a picture. Could be one guy trolling and a bit of a pile-on effect afterwards. I'll wait and see if a few others come forward, if his behavior is as stated surely the press would be looking into it.

Was Delaney just in England for the United/Liverpool match?