Italy V Republic of Ireland - Monday, 18th June 2012 - Euro 2012 Group C

[Crosby87]

We had hoped the Azzurri would be on our level but it never happened.
Still, the group is in disarray.

Ireland Vs Italy, Euro 2012.

Italy needs the match.
Do you get any satisfaction in a win? Or a draw? Do we give "The Kids" A run out? Or are there no "Kids"?

[tricky_colour]

It would be unfair not to field our strongest team?
Surely it is in Trap''s interests as an Italian to field the weakest Ireland team?
I suppose many will assume Spain will easily beat Croatia?

Bookies odds.
Croatia (15/2) v (15/8) Spain (4/5)

So a draw is only about 2-1

Now take a look at Ireland's odds

Italy (3/10) v (5) Ireland (11)


We have had a few draws against Italy recently (2009) do that 5-1 seems a good price
but I guess people think our form has dropped significantly?

Can we pull a result out of the bag? Would be a nice way to finish beating Italy!!!

Remember ranking points are at stake so I think we need to go for the strongest side don't we? So yes a win is important to stop the slide in rankings.

We can try different players in friendlies.

[DannyInvincible]

Am I correct in thinking that if Spain-Croatia ends in a score-draw of 2-2 or more, both Spain and Croatia will go through irrespective of what Italy can manage against us?

[Carrigaline]

Trap has said that he will be making a few changes, but the team won't be drastically different otherwise he says the media will accuse him of just giving the game to Italy. Personally, I think Long and Gibson will get some game time. Not only have these lads not been given a chance yet, but they were knocking on the door of the first team before the finals.

[dong]

Sure what is our strongest side anyways? The one that hadn't a notion what it was supposed to be doing against Croatia or the one that surrendered over 70% of the ball to Spain and goals after 3 minutes against both? Sorry, I forgot we played exactly the same team against both (one player change apart) and got humiliated each time.

Its not like a major advantage will be lost or gained if Gibson replaces Whelan or McLean replaces McGeady.
What a joke.

[osarusan]

Given the way we played so far, maybe the Croats and Spanish are hoping we do make mass changes to our first team.

[geysir]

Am I correct in thinking that if Spain-Croatia ends in a score-draw of 2-2 or more, both Spain and Croatia will go through irrespective of what Italy can manage against us?
If Italy win - irrespective of what they manage to score , to be more exact :) then a score-draw of 2-2 or more will see both Spain and Croatia go through.
Head to head results count, even in a 3 way tie. Whatever any of the 3 tied teams did/do manage to score against Ireland, doesn't count.

[Murfinator]

Can say with all honesty I don't really care what team he fields or what the result is. Our tournament is over, using this as a platform for the WC 2014 is a bit silly really.

If we perform it'd be frustrating as you'd wonder why they couldn't have done that at a stage that counted, if they don't its depressing awakening to the reality of just how bad we are. I'm just going to draw a line under the previous two games and strike this game from any relevancy.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Am I correct in thinking that if Spain-Croatia ends in a score-draw of 2-2 or more, both Spain and Croatia will go through irrespective of what Italy can manage against us?

I'm not sure how that works for you Danny. I'd have thought that if Spain Croatia ended drawn 2-2 or upwards then Italy would go through IF they beat us by three goals and would go through as group winners if they beat us by five. I don't think either of those results are likely by the way whatever anyone else thinks of us or our chances.*

Anyway we owe it to Croatia and Spain to give Italy a game. Besides, if we get our collective heads out of our jocks and beat Italy we finish above them.

So, we're out and we're on our way home -so let's drop Italy off on the way.

*EDIT: I'm wrong and of course you're correct - a 2-2 draw in the Spain Croatia game sends them through in 1st and 2nd respectively regardless of the outcome of the Italy Ireland game. My scenarios only come into play in the event of a 1-1 draw between Spain and Croatia.

[mark12345]

Big test of Trap this game. Let him show us that he is starting to plan for WC 2014, as he believes he deserves the chance.

No time for nostalgia here. He should drop Whelan, Andrews and O'Shea for starters. Should also drop Ward but there's no Wilson to take his place (Wilson who should have been there in the first place). And if we're going on form Robbie, Shay and Dunne should also be dropped, but won't.

[brine3]

The question is also if the players rebel on the pitch and play a more open form of football.

At the moment we are the worst team at this tournament and if we keep doing the same things we will continue to be.

Holland could lose tonight, and Sweden will probably lose to France. If we beat Italy then that leaves us on more points than Holland, Sweden and Italy. And suddenly we were only a Croation draw from the 1/4 finals. All the media in Europe who had their newspaper articles ready about Ireland the poorest team in the tournament will have to throw their stories in the bin.

Maybe it's time for the players to go out, perform a mutiny on the pitch and show their manager that they can actually play some football? But is Robbie Keane the captain to inspire something like that? I don't think so.

[seanfhear]

May be the Irish team should just sing for the 90 minutes and hope the Italians don't kick our "arias"

" Meoooooow "

[texidub]

Can say with all honesty I don't really care what team he fields or what the result is. Our tournament is over, using this as a platform for the WC 2014 is a bit silly really.

If we perform it'd be frustrating as you'd wonder why they couldn't have done that at a stage that counted, if they don't its depressing awakening to the reality of just how bad we are. I'm just going to draw a line under the previous two games and strike this game from any relevancy.

I doubt the players and management team will be thinking like that. We messed up the first two games but it's not like those games are the end of Irish football. Life goes on. It's time to dust ourselves off and start again --even if we are out of the tournament.

Also, we have only one friendly before the WCQs start, so we should take this game very seriously.. and yeah I would give Long a chance.

Can we beat Italy? Definitely. They will be psychologically damaged by knowing that they have performed poorly against the same core of Irish players in recent years.. especially with Ireland playing so badly.

Also, if anything positive is to come out of this experience, it's that this is the time to stop playing like Metrosexual Allstars United and start getting in people's faces again, chasing down the opposition and making it difficult for opposing teams to play their game.

In fact, it's good to have a game quickly after the last two disasters. Imagine having five months (or whatever it is) to ponder the last two games!

I don't care much whether we win or lose this particular game, as long as we start playing with passion again.

Prediction: 0-0/1-1

[BonnieShels]

I'm not sure how that works for you Danny. I'd have thought that if Spain Croatia ended drawn 2-2 or upwards then Italy would go through IF they beat us by three goals and would go through as group winners if they beat us by five. I don't think either of those results are likely by the way whatever anyone else thinks of us or our chances.*

Anyway we owe it to Croatia and Spain to give Italy a game. Besides, if we get our collective heads out of our jocks and beat Italy we finish above them.

So, we're out and we're on our way home -so let's drop Italy off on the way.

*EDIT: I'm wrong and of course you're correct - a 2-2 draw in the Spain Croatia game sends them through in 1st and 2nd respectively regardless of the outcome of the Italy Ireland game. My scenarios only come into play in the event of a 1-1 draw between Spain and Croatia.

You spelled "hereby" wrong too. :P

[Lionel Ritchie]

You spelled "hereby" wrong too. :P

Thanks. Can you do an auld spellcheck on "pedantic ****er" as well? ;)

[BonnieShels]

Thanks. Can you do an auld spellcheck on "pedantic ****er" as well? ;)

Now now. With no pineapple_stu someone has to step up to the plate.

[Stuttgart88]

I just did on the national academy thread. You got what you deserved.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The FAI just tweeted that the same team that played Croatia will play Italy. Doyle for Cox. That's the only change.

[BonnieShels]

the fai just tweeted that the same team that played croatia will play italy. Doyle for cox. That's the only change.

really?

Christ!

Just saw it there...


Starting XI v Italy: Given, O'Shea, Dunne, St.Ledger, Ward, Duff (c), Andrews, Whelan, McGeady, Keane, Doyle. Duff captain for his 100th cap

[Noelys Guitar]

Knew he would change very little. And barring retirements and injuries this is the team that will start against Kazakhstan.

[shakermaker1982]

God he's loyal or extremely stubborn. At the very least O'Shea & Whelan should have been dropped.

[Maroon 7]

Some lads will have to retire for Trap to change the team. And even then he still might pick them.

[Stuttgart88]

Some lads will have to retire for Trap to change the team. And even then he still might pick them.Lol ..

[Irwin3]

Trap: "Same again."

Extremely disheartening. What are the likes of Gibson and Long thinking?

[cestlavie]

Trap doesnt need a squad

[Stuttgart88]

Duff captain. Is this his 100th cap? That'd explain it.

[cestlavie]

Duff captain. Is this his 100th cap? That'd explain it.

Duff deserves it, 100 caps great achievement It may be his last game too.

[geysir]

God he's loyal or extremely stubborn. At the very least O'Shea & Whelan should have been dropped.

He's both loyal and stubborn. Even if Trap was never going to select Given or Whelan again, he would still play them in this game.
Maybe he also believes in redemption against all odds, for this team.

[the 12 th man]

He's both loyal and stubborn. Even if Trap was never going to select Given or Whelan again, he would still play them in this game.
Maybe he also believes in redemption against all odds, for this team.


If we unearthed an Irish Messi he wouldn't get into a Trapp team,he wouldn't fit in with Trapps idea of how to play the game.

[dong]

If we unearthed an Irish Messi he wouldn't get into a Trapp team,he wouldn't fit in with Trapps idea of how to play the game.

There were lots of hugely talented players in his Italian team when he managed there. This argument about Trap doesn't stand up.

[BonnieShels]

And there was Cassano...

[the 12 th man]

There were lots of hugely talented players in his Italian team when he managed there. This argument about Trap doesn't stand up.

He's gone very conservative in his old age.

[brine3]

I'll watch the match. But to be honest this **** just isn't worth watching any more.

[CraftyToePoke]

I'll watch the match. But to be honest this **** just isn't worth watching any more.

I'd go along with that, just now. The one bit of redemption available here was to see him be willing to change it, the one silver lining available was Westwood, Gibson, Long and McClean hinting at a brighter future Vs an Italy who need a result.

Even should this selection go out and win tomorrow it will only breed even more frustration with the earlier results, Croatia in particular.

[Murfinator]

Trap: "Same again."

Extremely disheartening. What are the likes of Gibson and Long thinking?

Gibson will hopefully be thinking "I shouldn't have done SFA in my other 19 caps", Gibson was on the fringe of not even making this squad!
and perhaps Long will reflect on his 7 goals in 26 appearances and wonder why people are claiming he doesn't get a chance.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's gone very conservative in his old age.
Because he refuses to pick a player who doesn't exist?

Trap's comments in the press conference were worrying. It almost sounds like he's given up and is just playing this team as a thank you for qualifying.

[brine3]

And how many of those 26 appearances were 90 minutes do you think?

[brine3]

Because he refuses to pick a player who doesn't exist?

Trap's comments in the press conference were worrying. It almost sounds like he's given up and is just playing this team as a thank you for qualifying.

Or maybe he wants Italy to go through? And nobody can accuse him of fixing it if he plays his "strongest XI"...

[brine3]

I don't get it to be honest, he goes on about respect and loyalty to those who qualified after they've shipped seven goals in 180 minutes.

Yet he has no problems dropping Foley from the squad at the last minute to bring in McShane.

[Stuttgart88]

Or maybe he wants Italy to go through? And nobody can accuse him of fixing it if he plays his "strongest XI"...The man's open to criticism but I think he's far more honest than that. That's a cheap dig.

[eekers]

Instead of picking a team for the future he's gone with what he considers his strongest team.
Why? It all goes back to 2004 when he was managing Italy. Denmark and Sweden 'conspired' to put Italy out.
He doesn't want to be seen to roll over and let Italy win.
Its all about how he wants to be seen in Spain and Croatia. Trap cares more about his reputation than the future of the Irish team.

[Irwin3]

Gibson will hopefully be thinking "I shouldn't have done SFA in my other 19 caps", Gibson was on the fringe of not even making this squad!
and perhaps Long will reflect on his 7 goals in 26 appearances and wonder why people are claiming he doesn't get a chance.

You're absolutely correct. They might as well retire now.

If only Gibson had been able to meet the high standards of Whelan, Andrews and Green then he might have seen some game time. I hear David Moyes is going to break the bank for Andrews and Green to supplant Gibson.

If only Long could have matched Doyle, Walters and Cox's fantastic goal ratios then he might have played more. Remind me which of our strikers has actually scored in the last 4 games?

[The Fly]

Roy says it's time to ring the changes (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/euro2012/4377157/Euro-2012-Roy-Keane-says-Republic-of-Ireland-should-dump-em-all.html).....(or Roy back on the attack)

[tricky_colour]

He has to play his strongest team, ranking points depend on this result so it
could determine what pot we are in in the future.

[tricky_colour]

team.
---------Westwood
mcclean dunne hunt Mc Shane
duff andrews gibson mcgeady
long walters

[Murfinator]

He has to play his strongest team, ranking points depend on this result so it
could determine what pot we are in in the future.

Yep there's extra weighting for winning matches in a tournament. But lets not let common sense get in the way of a good tabloid rant.

[SolitudeRed]

I thought that Italy were the team that we would most likely get points off when I heard the draw back in December but now I am not so sure about that after the first two performances! I am stuck in Madrid at the moment too so there wont be much craic surrounding the match either for me will prob find it difficult to find a bar thats showing it given that spain are playing at the same time ffs

[texidub]

There's a good footballing reason to change the team for the Italy match --IIRC, we have only one friendly scheduled before the WCQs start. This isn't a throwaway game of no consequence, it's a WCQ warm up at the highest level. If Trapp wants to reward specific players he should organize a testimonial!

EDIT: Obviously if this is the team that starts against the Khazaks then things are worse than I want to believe...

[DannyInvincible]

Instead of picking a team for the future he's gone with what he considers his strongest team.
Why? It all goes back to 2004 when he was managing Italy. Denmark and Sweden 'conspired' to put Italy out.
He doesn't want to be seen to roll over and let Italy win.
Its all about how he wants to be seen in Spain and Croatia. Trap cares more about his reputation than the future of the Irish team.

Idle speculation that just doesn't add up. Why would he care how he's viewed in Spain and Croatia because of something that happened in 2004? He'll be managing us for a further two years after this tournament, so it's in his best interests to care about the future of the Irish team. He'll pick what he believes to be his strongest eleven because he wants to win the game.

[geysir]

He's picking the team that got us through the qualifiers.
That's fair enough but this exact team has already had a run out in the tournament.
Unless we get at least a draw there little justification for not making a couple of changes.
He could also have a fear of being accused of not playing his strongest team and a man like Trap feels honour bound to play them.
Anyway, the main issue is not what we do in the Italy game but what changes are made afterwards.