Where to from now....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except that our players are good technically, otherwise most of them wouldn't be employed in the EPL. It's just other countries' players are even better.

[geysir]

They are not good technically, playing Trap's cautious formation. And Trap's formation calls for a player like Green to be played over and above McCarthy and Gibson.
The players are not performing to their own standards and a few good players are being forsaken. That's what you'd call an all round management failure.
At least with Greece, you can observe the players (most of them) have technical proficiency and use their skills well, within their game plan.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except his (or any) formation has very little to do with their technical skills. And even Paul Green is light years ahead of any of us.

Do though take the point about us not matching up to the sum of our parts currently, but as much to do with a lack of creativity.
A canny operator would have assimilated the mad bald bloke and perpetual fat one back into the squad, with the appropriate kicks up the hole. As at least there would have been another 'Plan B'...

[paul_oshea]

They are not good technically, playing Trap's cautious formation. And Trap's formation calls for a player like Green to be played over and above McCarthy and Gibson.
The players are not performing to their own standards and a few good players are being forsaken. That's what you'd call an all round management failure.
At least with Greece, you can observe the players (most of them) have technical proficiency and use their skills well, within their game plan.

Geysir there appears to be a change of tune here somewhat, are you saying, Trap is not the man for the job, given his current performance, with the players at his disposal?

[geysir]

Except his (or any) formation has very little to do with their technical skills. And even Paul Green is light years ahead of any of us.

Do though take the point about us not matching up to the sum of our parts currently, but as much to do with a lack of creativity.
.
I think that's where there's a misconception. Regardless of formation, technical skills are required to make it work and I pointed out Greece as an example. Somehow, whatever technical skills we have get suspended or reduced to the lowest common denominator. Trap's formation has also to do with using skills but there is a gap which has not been bridged. The gap between the players using their skills when required or opportune and Trap encouraging them to play it safe and crude. That gap was accentuated by the players succumbing to crude and safe and Trap's player selection criteria, eg preference for choosing Green over Gibson and McCarthy.

[geysir]

Geysir there appears to be a change of tune here somewhat, are you saying, Trap is not the man for the job, given his current performance, with the players at his disposal?
My tune has been consistent.
Just as the game is ultimately about putting the ball in the net, results are what justify decisions that Trap has made and I only seriously look at results over a whole campaign. I was reasonably confident that Trap would get us to the Finals, this he did and we deserved it. I was confident we would have way too much experience for Armenia and Estonia in the pressure games.
I did not suddenly become deluded. Not to mention all those who turned from critic to OTT positivity. I thought we would be doing well to get one point. I even thought that we could play well and get no points. IMO, Croatia would have beaten any of the losing 1/4 finalists, Spain and Italy could grace the final. It was a tough group. Getting ripped apart by Spain was not unexpected and that scoreline was exaggerated by a few mistakes. The game against Italy was also expected, the game against Croatia was cursed but everything we were about, allowed those events to transpire.
Overall we were poor against much better teams and we didn't perform. There is no escape from that. What blocked that ability to perform lies mainly with Trap. What got us to the Finals is no longer valid.

I'd mainly go to an Ireland game to support the team and watch the game, I don't care for anything else, apart from the locality and conversations with sober people to pass the time before and after the game. I have only attended a couple of games under Trap. The home game against Bulgaria was a torrid spectacle on the pitch. Personally I wouldn't go to all the hassle and expense that I have to go through and risk another experience like that, and the risk is pretty high.
I'll make an effort to go to the Faroes, but more out of respect for the Faroe Islands than going to witness catenaccio Irish style, part 3.

[ArdeeBhoy]

'Mystic' Geysir is no more...

[Stuttgart88]

This is a decent idea. If it only took 3 years for sportspeople to become a naturalised Irish citizen, then you'd see big clubs having Irish affiliate clubs to help with work permit regulations, rather than the likes of Antwerp in Belgium for Man UtdI see Sunderland has signed an agreement with an African NGO and Tullow Oil (an Irish company).

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/sport/miliband-africa-link-good-for-club-3150890.html

Obviously Tullow has shareholders to answer to and isn't a charitable organisation so would only do this if there's commercial logic to it in some sense.

However, given the mutual love-in between Ireland and Poland at the moment wouldn't some form of football co-operation- player exchanges, training etc. make sense with Euro 2012 as the catalyst?

Maybe Lech Poznan and Rovers' ultras can get together :)

[paul_oshea]

I've emailed that guy at Tullow Oil before in a former guise as PRO for an organisation over here, i thought given our connections he might at least send me a PFO :(

They don't really seem to be very "Irish proud", sponsorship from a sports point of view anyway.

[Charlie Darwin]

Why? Sure Sunderland AFC is more Irish than the Irish themselves.

[tricky_colour]

Indo highlighting some key issues, without adding much in the way of detail.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/irelands-summer-of-discontent-3147777.html



Looks like the shoite has finally started hitting the fan (no pun intended even if it is accurate).

[the bear]

And so it begins...

The press has turned on el Trap, will we see a repeat of McCarthys fate after 2002?

Poor results in Kazakhstan and when the Germans visit could see the axe fall.

[SwanVsDalton]

I suspect Trap would survive poor results IF he takes a serious look at McCarthy, Gibson, McClean, Long etc in those games (or even a couple of them). Inflexibility is his most damning indictment at the moment.

[the bear]

But is he really capable of adapting now. He quite clearly stated we have to play his way because we aren't good enough to play like real footballers. How will that have changed. He has also shown he is not one to be turned by public opinion. The same cannot be said for the FAI, if the press demand it, Delaney will pull the trigger.

[Stuttgart88]

Juast reverting back to our woeful opass completion rate: Guardian today says Spain completed more passes in the first half against France than Portugal completed in two whole games. That's Portugal, not us. It's not as if they can't use the ball a bit.

[Stuttgart88]

Lee Carsley with more interesting stuff to say

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0627/1224318804865.html#

ANALYSIS: THE GENERAL reaction to Ireland and then England’s demise at the European Championships has been fairly similar – neither nation was good enough by half, be it technically or individually.

I think this stance is wrong.

Let’s start by looking at Scott Parker and Steven Gerrard; the cramped up, exhausted England midfield pairing from the other night’s defeat to Italy. Put them against any three-man midfield in the tournament and they were always going to struggle.

Any two chasing possession against three men will expend way more energy. Just look at the drained look on Parker’s face as he was hauled off or Gerrard cramping up on 71 minutes.

Around the same time the first beads of sweat dripped off Andrea Pirlo’s forehead. Glenn Whelan and the frustrated Keith Andrews had similar problems during their Pirlo passing tutorial.

The Italian playmaker is 33 but this obvious weakness was never tested because Italy constantly had the option of an extra body against both Ireland and England. Pirlo barely moves but the two midfielders in front of him had Gerrard and Parker on their toes.

The English backroom really should have made their boys sit through the Italy v Irish game. It was there for all to see. Yet no lesson was learned. We’re back to the 4-4-2 debate again. This problem will not go away.

There was an English plan. It was for Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney to alternate dropping off and putting pressure on the Italian puppetmaster. It was important for either Welbeck or Rooney to tackle from the wrong side of Pirlo. You don’t want them goal-side of him as the Italians can react to that. It worked a few times with Pirlo losing the ball and Italy immediately looking fragile.

A striker, by his very nature, is a free spirit so to ask Welbeck or Rooney to do a man-marker’s job throughout was a tactical flaw. Eventually they stopped doing the job. Same thing happened with Ireland’s front two. There were countless moments when the English, and Irish, strikers were five yards off Pirlo, sucking in oxygen as the Juve number 21 picked out his umpteenth pass deep in opposition territory.

England, or Ireland, could even have played with Parker, or Whelan, in front of two midfielders, with a simple brief to stop Pirlo. Stand on him for 90 minutes, or until Cesare Prandelli was forced to change. Then you react and frustrate them some more. Get stuck into them but do it cleverly. It would have become 10 versus 10 and made a massive difference.

I actually felt Ireland had more of a go against Italy than England. The extra man in midfield means a player must be sacrificed elsewhere. Neither Giovanni Trapattoni nor Roy Hodgson were prepared to do this. The better teams in this tournament have embraced this approach, giving up the attacking option out wide by going through the middle in numbers.

The Premiership is the best league in the world. Looking at the individuals that made up the England starting XI, I cannot see how Italy’s XI could be considered technically superior. Man for man, I believe England were the better side. But they didn’t go man for man. There was no individual pressure put on. Hodgson is a 4-4-2 advocate, always has been. He decided this was the simplest approach to get the players to buy into his management in the time frame available.

Prandelli, in contrast, went about winning the tournament by alternating from 3-5-2 against Spain and Croatia, changing mid-game to a 4-3-3, which he stuck with, but an even narrower version, against us. It was a different system for every game to counter the opposition.

They were clearly practising for weeks in training, constantly changing systems and personnel with a steely focus on beating every team they face (although I think Germany will prove too strong for everyone).

It is simple arithmetic, movement, awareness and industry. Three against two in the middle will always mean the two men are chasing shadows. Also, when you do get the ball, your options are few, if any.

The problem is the English/ Irish mentality, and the public reaction at attempts to change. I’ve experienced crowds at Lansdowne Road and English grounds growing frustrated with the ball being passed about. They want it sent up to our big striker without any creativity until we are around opponents’ 18-yard box.

The Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and Germans all seek to control the ball, and patiently work it upfield. That’s why the Premier League is considered the most exciting league in the world. Because it is so fast and furious.

When England sent on Andy Carroll, and it went directly up to him, the Italians struggled. Suddenly there was a hint of midfielders not tracking their runners. The only problem was so much energy had already been spent.

Now, it is time to think about the next World Cup in Brazil, with its climate and humidity, as well as the established passing approach of the major nations.

England and Ireland cannot simply switch philosophy in the next few weeks, but their current systems must change.

I would love to hear about a new on-field strategy for Irish football going for forward. Most importantly, it has to be the same style of play from the bottom up. Our representative teenagers must play the same all the way through the ranks so promotion into the senior squad is seamless.

At Coventry City, where I coach, we have a coaching methodology that starts at under-10 right up to the first team squad. This is nothing new at the best clubs all over the world.

Will Trapattoni seek to do this? Does he care about what happens to Ireland at underage or even at senior in two years’ time? Will he start going to club games in England that have Irish players on view? We’ve loads of ex-Irish internationals out there coaching – Kenny Cunningham, Gary Breen, Curtis Fleming, Graham Kavanagh, Alan McLoughlin and, of course, Chris Hughton.

Why not get one or two of them around the national team? Our first job should be to ensure no team, no matter how technically gifted, should be allowed waltz through our midfield lines during the next qualification campaign.

Even the Germans, potentially arriving as European champions in October, must not be permitted to do what others have done to us and to England. We’ve suffered enough under the current manager’s stubbornness.

[jbyrne]

The same cannot be said for the FAI, if the press demand it, Delaney will pull the trigger.

why should the press have so much power?
If the fans vote with their feet only then would it be reasonable for the FAI to act. If the hiring and firing of managers was led by the press we would have at least one change a year. when have they ever fully supported our manager?

No doubt trap needs to alter his ways to some extent but i dread the managerial dross we will have to pick from if he does go.

[geysir]

That's a nice read. Carsley understates the amount of ground Pirlo actually covers in a game. Pirlo covered more ground than Gerrard. Gerrard's exhaustion was not due to him covering more ground than Pirlo. That's besides the point anyway.
Lee repeats the good point that Sadlier made in an earlier piece about kids being taught to play one way but then they look at the national team who are playing like donkeys.

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://foot.ie/threads/168402-Where-do-we-go-from-here-YBIG-Football-Show?p=1607813#post1607813

[Stuttgart88]

I have to say some of the talk on that show is very OTT. "Embarrassing". "Better not to be there at all". "We stank the tournament out".

[jbyrne]

I have to say some of the talk on that show is very OTT. "Embarrassing". "Better not to be there at all". "We stank the tournament out".

exactly. who had the more disappointing tournament.... us or the Dutch? Id say the dutch by far. would they say it would be better if they hadnt been there?

[boovidge]

Lots of pie in the sky Football Manager type proposals and ideas from the people on that show. Fun to discuss but not realistic possibilities.

[Noelys Guitar]

exactly. who had the more disappointing tournament.... us or the Dutch? Id say the dutch by far. would they say it would be better if they hadnt been there?

Glad you mentioned Holland. The head of the Dutch Football Association Bert Van Oosten has already had a meeting with Van Marwijk (who is contracted until 2016) with another one to follow in two weeks. Van Ooosten described the Holland teams performances as unworthy of the Orange shirt. “I cannot get into it too much so soon after the game. But I have received no signal that Van Marwijk wants to stop. The question is whether Bert is the man who can turn this situation around.” Exact questions Delaney should be asking but isn't.

[Stuttgart88]

Thanks to Uncle Joe for steering us towards this website. This is a great article:

http://www.thecoachdiary.com/grassroots-football-changes-4-v-ireland-fai-0/

[Stuttgart88]

I see Spain have sent their elite under 3s onto the pitch for some big time atmosphere experience. Gotta admire their far-sightedness. Are you watching FAI? :)

[seanfhear]

I see Spain have sent their elite under 3s onto the pitch for some big time atmosphere experience. Gotta admire their far-sightedness. Are you watching FAI? :)
Was'nt it great that it was so well organised that the players could safely bring their kids onto the pitch.
It was a great advertisement for football.

[tetsujin1979]

Was'nt it great that it was so well organised that the players could safely bring their kids onto the pitch.
It was a great advertisement for football.
Remember that the next time there's a pitch invasion at Croke Park and everyone says "you could never do that at a soccer game"

[tetsujin1979]

Spain didn't start playing like that yesterday, likewise Ireland aren't going to start playing like that tomorrow. Germany took stock of their position after Euro 2000 and started producing players like Kedira and Ozil, ten years later. Whatever success or failure the high performance plan at the FAI has, we won't be able to judge until the players in the program reach maturity, probably not for another seven years, minimum

[Bungle]

Spain didn't start playing like that yesterday, likewise Ireland aren't going to start playing like that tomorrow. Germany took stock of their position after Euro 2000 and started producing players like Kedira and Ozil, ten years later. Whatever success or failure the high performance plan at the FAI has, we won't be able to judge until the players in the program reach maturity, probably not for another seven years, minimum

Totally agree and the thing is that Germany did that in a massive footballing country with a very rich history. They don't have sports like GAA and Rugby to fight off also.

I have a feeling that we will produce a really world class young player in the next few years. It could be someone like Robbie Brady or Alex Hanlon, but it is badly overdue going on our past ability to produce great players. We will be overjoyed and think we are marvellous for a small country (in a way we do have a great ability to produce great players so we should feel pride). However, this is only papering the cracks, of so much that is wrong with our game. It is no coincidence that St Kevin's are becoming the dominant schoolboy club in Dublin with Crumlin United very competitive also. I understand both clubs play football the "continental way" from a young age. Great schoolboy clubs like Belvo, Home Farm, Cherry Orchard and Joey's seem to be lagging behind and are not really producing what they used to.

A friend of mine coached a few years ago at a club called Knocklyon United, which would be a reasonably decent club in Dublin. His own team were exceptional and beating alot of the big schoolboy teams in Dublin and Cork in competitions. He wrote to a local LOI club and suggested that as alot of his players were beginning to be courted by English clubs, then perhaps they could represent that club, instead of Knocklyon United, so as to get them in to what he though would be a very good academy and really take them up a notch, to a level he didn't think he could take them. He suggested that they could amalgamate with that club's schoolboy team and be very competitive. The LOI club wrote back and stated they wouldn't be interested in this, as they have their own team. A short time later, the two clubs met and Knocklyon hammered them 6-0. He said that the LOI clubs coach had them playing hoof ball in to the corners.

In fairness, that LOI club has come on leaps and bounds since then and I have alot of time for their set-up with their stadium. However, it did get me thinking how LOI clubs should be getting top-class coaches and scouts running the rule over lads at local clubs in their areas and getting them in to their academys. While we will never have a really top club in this country, I don't see why we can't have a club at a leverl like Rosenborg or FC Copenhagen, filled with lads from local areas. We still produce great raw talent, if it could just be harnessed.

[paul_oshea]

that club = Tallaght

[Charlie Darwin]

If it was a few years ago then it was probably a different south Dublin club.

[Bungle]

that club = Tallaght

It is indeed;) To be fair that club have been making great progress and it was a few years ago. I don't know if their academy or youth recruitment system has changed, but clubs like Rovers should be linking up with local schoolboy clubs, by giving them top class coaching, in return they could identify exceptional local talent before English/Scottis clubs do. They could also be building up link ups with clubs down the country in counties like Laois and Offaly etc.

At a national level, the FAI could then have regional academies to cherry pick the best academy talent at LOI and schoolboy clubs. For the players that might not want to go to England at 15/16 for a variety of reasons or are not good enough at that age, this might be enough to keep them motivated in the game and keep them involved.

[mark12345]

Good to hear that Kevin's and Crumlin are coaching their kids the continental way, but not so good that LOI clubs are still playing hoof ball. I used play for Home Farm, and looking back all we were ever coaches was hoof ball, and I'm talking about the LOI team.

I knew, when I live at home, quite a few brilliant (creative) players - a friend of mine went to play in England and was one of the more creative players in a Cup FInal appearance against United - but they were never even looked at. Reason being they didn't fit into the 100 miles an hour profile of a player that English football demands. Good post on your part though, very informative.

And now that you mention it, how is Alex Hanlon doing? I heard great things about him. Also there was another lad who went with him to City wasn't it. Jack Byrne? Anyone know how he's doing?

[Bungle]

Good to hear that Kevin's and Crumlin are coaching their kids the continental way, but not so good that LOI clubs are still playing hoof ball. I used play for Home Farm, and looking back all we were ever coaches was hoof ball, and I'm talking about the LOI team.

I knew, when I live at home, quite a few brilliant (creative) players - a friend of mine went to play in England and was one of the more creative players in a Cup FInal appearance against United - but they were never even looked at. Reason being they didn't fit into the 100 miles an hour profile of a player that English football demands. Good post on your part though, very informative.

And now that you mention it, how is Alex Hanlon doing? I heard great things about him. Also there was another lad who went with him to City wasn't it. Jack Byrne? Anyone know how he's doing?

It is interesting what you said about alot of the players that came from Ireland in the past that were so technically gifted, but went to the wrong clubs. I do think we often produce youth teams that are quite continental in how they play, but by the time they're older, they're a clone of typical British footballers. Even England never fully trusted many of their most gifted - Waddle, Hoddle and Barnes to name a few.

I heard Ronnie Whelan saying that he was blessed that he went to Liverpool, where they recognised his strengths as a footballer and developed him, because they recognised that he was technically gifted. He reckoned he never would have been anything, if he had gone to another English club. He said that Jim Beglin was another player that was similar in that regard.

I understand that Alex Hanlon is doing very well, from talking with mates over there that follow the academy teams. They reckon he's a very good chance of making the grade and say he has exceptional talent. Because of his age they're cautios of talking him up too much though. They also rave about a lad from Belfast called McLoughlin, who is a bit older and reckon will make the 1st team squad in no time at all, maybe even this season. They said there's another Irish lad over there called Cleary who is very good also. Think he's a centre half.

[mark12345]

Thanks Bungle. Keep the information coming. And while we're at it there's a younger lad in the Boston area - name of Owen Smith and his father's from the Liberties in Dublin. The kid is going to be the next Damien Duff, has a left foot which can make the ball talk.

[paul_oshea]

Eh, whats his old mans name? Is he a mechanic by any chance?

[the bear]

Eh, whats his old mans name? Is he a mechanic by any chance?

Probably John smith!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38376000/jpg/_38376037_kay300.jpg

[mark12345]

No, not him.

[mark12345]

Not him either.

[Stuttgart88]

Does the FAI know about this guy Smith? Worth emailing them. Some here have done that already about other players and have got a response.

[SkStu]

Thanks Bungle. Keep the information coming. And while we're at it there's a younger lad in the Boston area - name of Owen Smith and his father's from the Liberties in Dublin. The kid is going to be the next Damien Duff, has a left foot which can make the ball talk.

Id hold out more hope if it was Eoin or Eoghan...

[paul_oshea]

No, not him.

Funny when i lived out there, i was at this guys house from the liberties, i cant remember his first name thought it was smith, but he reminded me a bit of that guy in Fair City who was going out with Carol, and I think Lorcan killed him - i never ever watch Fair city and i don't know how i remember the names, but his character and the weird (nutter)one who always listened to the classical music in his car are stuck in my head. Anyway real liberties fella but very very nice, couldnt do enough for ye.

[osarusan]

http://soccerlens.com/finance-in-english-football-wage-disparities-between-the-divisions/92692/

Average wage in the Championship = £250,000 a year. For League 1, £80,000 a year. League 2, £65,000.

http://www.football-lineups.com/tourn/League_Two_2011-2012/stats/home_avg_atte/
Average crowds for the Championship = 17846. League 1, 7462, League 2, 4453.

I realise that there are a lot of people on here who are frustrated with the failure of the LOI to do more to market itself and draw people in.

Stuttgart88 mentioned earlier (not sure what thread) that in order to improve domestic football and keep more players at home, it might have to be turned into something that current LOI fans wouldn't support. But I think the figures above are pretty uncomfortable reading for people who think that we'll ever really in a position to keep our top talent at home. Even in the incredibly optimistic scenario of LOI games averaging 4500 a game, we'd only be matching the figures for League 2. I'm not sure that we can ever realistically hope to meet League 1 attendances, never mind Championship numbers. I know that revenue is made up of more than just crowds, with TV revenue being a big part of it. I found something about Championship clubs getting £1,000,000 each in 2006. No figures for League 1 or 2, but I'm not optimistic that LOI clubs (in whatever guise) will ever get that big a slice of the pie.


So I think that rather than talking about generating a platform to keep our best players at home (or even the second best level), we should be looking at how to keep players at home for longer. We have to deal with the issue of junior clubs packing off our young stars before they ever play LOI, but equally we have to make staying at home a more attractive proposition for them. With better facilites and better crowds, maybe the lure of a decent wage, proper training, and even exposure in European competitions might make a few change their minds.

Speaking of training, if we're going to keep them at home for longer, we have to make sure that they're getting properly trained. We complain that we've lost many talented footballers because English football's bruising academies chewed them up and spat them out, so we need to practice what we preach - more qualified coaches at all leves working toward a common goal.

The problem with all of this, of course, is that neither the FAI or the LOI has a pot to pi$$ in, and we're left in a horrible kind of catch-22 situation.

There is this notion some posters have on here that the LOI is happy with what it is, and doesn't want to improve, but the fact is that all LOI clubs would love to have academies and better facilities and the best coaches, but we simply don't have the money for it.

As Dodge said years ago, there's not a problem in the LOI that can't be solved with money, but the problem, then and now, is where it's going to come from.

[paul_oshea]

The thing is many "millionaires" have invested in clubs but it has got them nowhere, only agro from fans and run the club into receivership or near recievership. ANy wise businessman is not going to invest for no return - and thats why all these other fools have invested, because they really dont know what they are doing, and they dont know how to generate income streams.

If an investor could identify a way of linking up with other clubs or could guarantee, even 1 decent sale a year to the PL or abroad, then I'd be confident the goals above could be achieved.

At the end of the day, if the LOI and its clubs want to increase attendances, generate more revenue, build better facilities, and essentially grow, they need to look to investors to help them. Even if they got another 500 a game in ticket sales, its not going to generate much of the former. Investment and yet keeping with the community vibe of LOI clubs, can and should be achieved*. Bring on board business minded people, get them involved, get them to promote the league.

Some of it may appear pie in the sky talk. But its the only way the league will prosper, I think crowds would then come, its the old field of dreams "build it and they will come".

*And like everything there are exceptions. I'd put SRFC in that bracket.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the League 1 and League 2 numbers put things into perspective. Don't forget that these clubs also receive a downstream solidarity subsidy from the EPL and the FA, not to mention the bigger commercial opportunities.

Here's the rub: Irish football is to a large extent a tributary of the English system. Our public supports English teams and pays to watch English football on the telly. Our better players all work in England and are recruited from Ireland at young ages. Yet we receive not a penny in compensation except for the odd derisory transfer fee.

I don't fully agree with Dodge's proposition that investment is what's needed, or rather I think it is a necessary but insufficient condition. The money needs to be spent well and this will only happen with a proper plan, and a proper plan will only be developed or effective when the Irish football pyramid and governance structure is properly joined up.

[Stuttgart88]

There's a paper I read by two Belgian sports economists saying that (as we all know) the polarisation of resources and competitiveness in European football, and subsequent insolvency of all but a few football clubs can be explained by a conflict between EU employment law and the EU-endorsed UEFA model of football (national leagues with promotion and relegation, international club competitions, and national teams). Post-Bosman EU footballers can move to where they get best paid (an open labour market) but football clubs can't really sell their services across borders - they must play in their domestic leagues (closed product market). This can only be solved by either closing the labour market to some degree (won't happen - remember the old 3+2 rule that Bosman put paid to?) or partial opening of the product market (e.g., cross border leagues - which leaves UEFA vulnerable to a power grab by big clubs across Europe).

The most obvious economic solution to all of European football's financial woes would be for a [20] team big city club US-style closed league with no promotion or relegation and full revenue sharing etc. We could try and negotiate for FAI franchise team or something like that. However this would marginalise UEFA and would find opposition from the EU (abuse of dominant market position when it comes to collectively selling TV rights and other licensing revenues). It would also stand firmly against what all of us football fans believe in.

Therefore I still think the most elegant solution to everything is for Ireland to develop 2, maybe 3or 4 at a stretch, fully professional teams that would gain virtually automatic entry into the Europa League and UEFA would change the Europa League so it becomes regionalised with our teams in the "North West Europe Zone" giving local derby type status to many of the games but also allowing for the Evertons / Sunderlands / Fulhams (or whoever) a chance to field waeker teams midweek and with relatively low travel complications - so they'd support the change too. My hunch (and that;'s all it is - I don't have a crystal ball) is that gate money would go up, sponsorship would go up and TV money would go up. Facilities and wages can be upgraded and a better all-round product would be offered.

The logistics of divvying up European football into enough zones would be hard but not impossible. Alternatively UEFA could look at allowing for a trans-European league not involving the Big 5 so Ireland might be able to enter a team (max two) into a "best of the rest" structure so X and Y teams from Ireland can play the Portos, Anderlechts, Ajaxes etc. The bigger teams in the smaller European leagues would be able to play against teams of similar financial standing.

Something along the above lines is the only way I can envisage the top professional tier of irish football being viable and being a credible alternative to our better (but not best) players playing in the Championship and below.

There are, how many - 6? - clubs in Dublin alone. Though I looked up the distribution of Uruguayan clubs and something like 13 out of 16 top flight clubs are from Montevideo :) But presumably, in addition to much better gate money, the better clubs get Copa Libertadore income - no idea just guessing.

We all like the history, community links and the quirky quaintness of the LOI but the ££££ genie is out of the bottle. We can't ignore the broadcast revolution and the Bosman ruling.

[AlaskaFox]

There are, how many - 6? - clubs in Dublin alone. Though I looked up the distribution of Uruguayan clubs and something like 13 out of 16 top flight clubs are from Montevideo :) But presumably, in addition to much better gate money, the better clubs get Copa Libertadore income - no idea just guessing.

From wiki, but the sources seem to be CONMEBOL documents so it should be correct:

Clubs in the Copa Libertadores receive $25,000 for advancing into the second stage and $210,000 per home match in the group phase.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#cite_note-Prize-53) That amount is derived from television rights and stadium advertising.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#cite_note-Prize-53) The payment per home match increases to $295,000 in the round of 16.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#cite_note-Reglamento-5)[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#cite_note-Prize-53) The prize money then increases as each quarterfinalist gets $375,000, $525,000 for each semifinalist, $625,000 for the runner-up, and $1,000,000 for the winner.[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_Libertadores#cite_note-Prize-53)
The winner also receives $2 million from Banco Santander as a bonus.

So for comparison, Penarol, the team who came 3rd in Uruguay last season got $655,000 (over €500,000) despite coming last in their group.

[bennocelt]

As if that would make any difference, Jesus live football on your doorstep. Simples

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, but there's football and football.

It depends on the price, quality and whether you have any affinity for the club. Especially if you're an 'outsider' not from that town or locality.
Can think of lots of people who wouldn't cross the road to see their local club for any variety of those reasons.
And often not because they 'want success' either.

These days, actually prefer a game much more as a dispassionate 'neutral'. And if it's a new ground...
Sad, I know.

[Stuttgart88]

I see Watford has been sold to Italians and Forest has just been sold to Kuwaitis. When is the penny going to drop over there? They have basically been tarting their community assets to ultra rich foreigners so the Murdoch backed Premier League can generate more revenues that they just spend on player wages anyway, a model which bankrupts all but a few. A handful of spivs and opportunists make out like bandits, most notably SKY whose platform has benefitted massively. Brian Clough would turn in his grave at what has happened to Forest. If we think our governance and strategic direction is bad, theirs just sucks.