Spain V Republic of Ireland - Thursday, 14th June 2012 - Euro 2012 Group C

[seanfhear]

jaysus our fans were unreal. proud to be irish

Very proud of our supporters. Trap did well to qualify with this team but they did not know (or were unable) to compete against this quality of opposition.

[Closed Account 2]

Terrible, 7 goals conceeded in 180 mins. All this with a manager who prides himself on tight defensive play, all 7 have been sloppy errors. We look inept in defence, flakey in midfield and blunt upfront. The worst bit was there was simply no fight from any of the players, it was almost lik e a Staunton performance in that sense. I admire Trap for getting us there but it seems he can't inspire the players or he's lost the dressing room or something

[NeverFeltBetter]

Gutted because of the performance and the result, but proud of the fans. Spain were just on another level.

[jebus]

How are people blaming Trap for this?

Dunne has been a mess, the less said about Given the better, St.Ledger is sadly all we have and can't even get a game in the Championship, O'Shea can barely run, Duff tries hard but has lost pace, Keane should be taken out back and shot and we're left with the maestros of Paul Green, Stephen Ward and the rest to make up a squad.

It's a miracle we got here and people are wanting the manager sacked because we can't stand up to the best team in the world?

[the bear]

Terrible, 7 goals conceeded in 180 mins. All this with a manager who prides himself on tight defensive play, all 7 have been sloppy errors. We look inept in defence, flakey in midfield and blunt upfront. The worst bit was there was simply no fight from any of the players, it was almost lik e a Staunton performance in that sense. I admire Trap for getting us there but it seems he can't inspire the players or he's lost the dressing room or something

true, we completely lost our basic structure and strength. in fairness spain can be unplayable but we were muck against croatia as well

[Carrigaline]

My ratings.

Given - 5 - A few very sloppy mistakes and some poor distribution. Completely not like him. Am gutted for him.
O'Shea - 6 - Probably our best defender, even still he made a few mistakes early on.
Dunne - 5 - Looked very sluggish, although he did improve a bit as the game progressed.
St Ledger - 4 - Probably the worst game he has had for us. How he ended up on the deck for two of the goals was ridiculous.
Ward - 4 - I have always said he is just out of his depth at left back. He showed it again tonight, positionally shocking.
Duff - 6 - Very quiet. Did a lot of tracking back and worded hard, but I don't recall him getting forward once.
Andrews - 7 - Easily our best player. Tried his heart out, put himself about, but just didn't have the quality to compete. Feel gutted for him.
Whelan - 4 - Whelan was at the other end of the spectrum. When he gets the ball, he isn't just nervous, he is completely terrified.
McGeady - 6 - Worked hard like Duff, got forward a few times, knocked in two crosses, had a few decent touches, but was ultimately swamped.
Cox - 6 - Tried his nuts off, linked up play a few times. Shouldn't be embarrassed at his performance.
Keane - 5 - Worked hard through out the night, but fluffed the one decent and one half chance that he had.

Walters - 6 - Put himself about, ran down some channels, but saw little fruit for his efforts.
McClean - 5 - Lost the ball a few times, but tried hard.
Green - 4 - Like Whelan and Ward, he was just nowhere near good enough to be wearing a green jersey.

[dancinpants]

How are people blaming Trap for this?

He picks the team.

[SkStu]

And the "tactics".

[eekers]

Trap saying he had no plan B for when Ireland went 1-0 down.
What did he expect? Is he living in the real world?

[jebus]

He picks the team.

And who among our world beaters on the bench or in Norwich would have stopped that happening tonight can I ask?

[shakermaker1982]

You can blame the Trap for playing Keane & Cox together. Absolutely bonkers.

If Shay Given wasn't 100% he shouldn't have been playing. Irish legend or not.

It hurts to see players who get paid 10-50k a week not able to control a ball or pass it to a team mate.

Our experienced players have been the biggest let down. Dunne has been awful.

Has the RTE panel been harsh? I thought Roy Keane was spot on with his analysis.

[the bear]

what did keane say. the rte lads havent been harsh at all basically said we hadnt a hope to begin with

[mark12345]

Does anyone need any extra convincing (after that performance against Spain) that possession is 99% of the game in football. Sure, goals win games but the Ireland v Spain game just illustrated how many chances can be created by the best possession team in the world verus that which gives away the ball the most.

Our first major tournament was 24 years ago. We did a lot under Jack because he recognised the fact that we couldn't maintain possession. He came up with a game plan and it worked wonders. And just to think some people still ridicule Jack to this day. In my mind he was a genius.

And speaking of geniuses, Roy Keane was also a genius.

He managed to pull together a bunch of players (better than that assembled tonight) and made them actually pass the ball and place a premium on not giving it away. We used to go to places like Holland and Portugal and have a real go at them.

And to think Roy was ridiculed and still is to this day.

So where to from here?

Major surgery is needed to our brains really. We have got to stop giving the ball away. It's our friend, when you keep it and moved it from player to player good things happen (as we all saw today).

Until the FAI hires some really good foreign coaches who can teach this aspect of the game to our youngsters, we are doomed.

Perhaps given the headline of this thread, Giovanni Trapattoni pales into insignificance as one who wasn't the best Irish manager of all time. Certainly I would take issue with him over his choice of midfielders. But that's small potatoes. The larger picture shows that we have to make radical changes to our game so as never to be embarassed like that again.

[dancinpants]

And who among our world beaters on the bench or in Norwich would have stopped that happening tonight can I ask?

So you think that was our strongest possible starting 11?

[the bear]

Does anyone need any extra convincing (after that performance against Spain) that possession is 99% of the game in football. Sure, goals win games but the Ireland v Spain game just illustrated how many chances can be created by the best possession team in the world verus that which gives away the ball the most.

Our first major tournament was 24 years ago. We did a lot under Jack because he recognised the fact that we couldn't maintain possession. He came up with a game plan and it worked wonders. And just to think some people still ridicule Jack to this day. In my mind he was a genius.

And speaking of geniuses, Roy Keane was also a genius.

He managed to pull together a bunch of players (better than that assembled tonight) and made them actually pass the ball and place a premium on not giving it away. We used to go to places like Holland and Portugal and have a real go at them.

And to think Roy was ridiculed and still is to this day.

So where to from here?

Major surgery is needed to our brains really. We have got to stop giving the ball away. It's our friend, when you keep it and moved it from player to player good things happen (as we all saw today).

Until the FAI hires some really good foreign coaches who can teach this aspect of the game to our youngsters, we are doomed.

Perhaps given the headline of this thread, Giovanni Trapattoni pales into insignificance as one who wasn't the best Irish manager of all time. Certainly I would take issue with him over his choice of midfielders. But that's small potatoes. The larger picture shows that we have to make radical changes to our game so as never to be embarassed like that again.

so good you said it twice

[gaiscíoch]

How are people blaming Trap for this?

Dunne has been a mess, the less said about Given the better, St.Ledger is sadly all we have and can't even get a game in the Championship, O'Shea can barely run, Duff tries hard but has lost pace, Keane should be taken out back and shot and we're left with the maestros of Paul Green, Stephen Ward and the rest to make up a squad.

It's a miracle we got here and people are wanting the manager sacked because we can't stand up to the best team in the world?

He picked them? There are better players sitting at home who haven't even been considered loyalty is one thing stupidity is another.

[the bear]

Really hope you're right bear, but I can see us shipping atleast 4 tonight...we were so shaky in defence against Croatia.

good shout dancy pants, at least i got to be positive for half an hour before the match and the first 3 mins

[tricky_colour]

Does anyone need any extra convincing (after that performance against Spain) that possession is 99% of the game in football. Sure, goals win games but the Ireland v Spain game just illustrated how many chances can be created by the best possession team in the world verus that which gives away the ball the most.

Our first major tournament was 24 years ago. We did a lot under Jack because he recognised the fact that we couldn't maintain possession. He came up with a game plan and it worked wonders. And just to think some people still ridicule Jack to this day. In my mind he was a genius.

And speaking of geniuses, Roy Keane was also a genius.

He managed to pull together a bunch of players (better than that assembled tonight) and made them actually pass the ball and place a premium on not giving it away. We used to go to places like Holland and Portugal and have a real go at them.

And to think Roy was ridiculed and still is to this day.

So where to from here?

Major surgery is needed to our brains really. We have got to stop giving the ball away. It's our friend, when you keep it and moved it from player to player good things happen (as we all saw today).

Until the FAI hires some really good foreign coaches who can teach this aspect of the game to our youngsters, we are doomed.

Perhaps given the headline of this thread, Giovanni Trapattoni pales into insignificance as one who wasn't the best Irish manager of all time. Certainly I would take issue with him over his choice of midfielders. But that's small potatoes. The larger picture shows that we have to make radical changes to our game so as never to be embarassed like that again.


You can't win possession unless you mark player and close them down.
We don't do this we just chase the ball around the pitch, you don't have to chase if you mark players because you are already where you need to be.
If we marked them 1 on 1 they would struggle to string 3 passes together, not the 30 they do when we mark space.
WE just tend to vaguely mark space somewhere in the vacinity of the goal in the van hope they will run into it.
When we did close them down low and behold they lost the ball""
We also looked tired and lethargic, I wonder if Trap has over trained them?

[mark12345]

Yeah, because no one was listening the first time

[Closed Account 2]

I'm not as concerned about the tactics as I am about the lack of bottle and drive. We were always a team that was better than the sum if its parts in 1990, 1994, 2002, even the botched play offs against Turkey, Belgium. These last two games we've looked just like a haphazard collection of players. In my opinion only Andrews has really given 110% in these two games

[the bear]

Yeah, because no one was listening the first time

whats the short term solution for the senior team

[jebus]

So you think that was our strongest possible starting 11?

Out of what started tonight I'd replace O'Shea at right with Coleman and move him into center in place of St.Ledger

I'd start Doyle and Waters up front and I would have had McCarthy in in place of Whelan but that obviously couldn't happen.

Would they have not lost 4-0 tonight? Probably not, could have lost by more even.

Even with that I can see why he went with Keane, St.Ledger and Whelan, why not like they got us here and Robbie is our all time goalscorer.

I'll join the Trap out brigade if he continues to play those three in the World Cup qualifiers, but I won't jump on the bandwagon because what could be the greatest international team ever played us off the park

[the bear]

Out of what started tonight I'd replace O'Shea at right with Coleman and move him into center in place of St.Ledger

I'd start Doyle and Waters up front and I would have had McCarthy in in place of Whelan but that obviously couldn't happen.

Would they have not lost 4-0 tonight? Probably not, could have lost by more even.

Even with that I can see why he went with Keane, St.Ledger and Whelan, why not like they got us here and Robbie is our all time goalscorer.

I'll join the Trap out brigade if he continues to play those three in the World Cup qualifiers, but I won't jump on the bandwagon because what could be the greatest international team ever played us off the park

sledger has been our best defender at the euros

[RiffRaff]

Serious question - are we the worst team ever to play in the Euro finals? I remember Latvia got there about 8 years ago but I think they got a point in the end

[bullit]

Roy Keane speaking on ITV-


Roy Keane has reacted to Ireland's 4-0 defeat by Spain and subsequent exit from Euro 2012 by urging Ireland to 'change their mentality'.
Ireland became the first team to be eliminated from the tournament as world champions Spain utterly outclassed them on Thursday night following Sunday's 3-1 defeat by Croatia.
Talking on ITV1 soon after the game in Gdansk, former Ireland international Keane said: "I think the players and even the supporters, they all have to change their mentality, it’s just nonsense from players speaking after the games about how great the supporters are.
"Listen, the supporters want to see the team doing a lot better and not giving daft goals away like that. I’m not too happy with all that nonsense.
"To praise the supporters for sake of it … Let’s change that attitude towards Irish supporters.
"They want to see the team winning – let’s not kid ourselves, we’re a small country, we’re up against it, but let's not just go along for the sing-song every now and again.”


http://www.itv.com/sport/football/euro/article/2012-06-14/roy-keane-urges-ireland-to-change-their-mentality/

[SkStu]

Serious question - are we the worst team ever to play in the Euro finals? I remember Latvia got there about 8 years ago but I think they got a point in the end


Was just thinking earlier that we're the Latvia of this tournament (think they were 2000?). But we're just the worst this time. It's always gotta be one team...

[the bear]

Roy Keane on ITV-



http://www.itv.com/sport/football/euro/article/2012-06-14/roy-keane-urges-ireland-to-change-their-mentality/

thanks for posting it, but thats ****** from keane having a pop at the fans, these lads are at the euros for the first time in 24 years and are enjoying themselves and supporting their country. i wish i could of gone myself. their attitude and support is a credit to the country

[irishultra]

He's dead right.

Em worst teams? Bulgaria were pretty damn bad, along with Latvia in 2004, but our play mirrors that of the Latvians, I think Bulgaria just lost the plot.

[gilberto_eire]

thanks for posting it, but thats ****** from keane having a pop at the fans, these lads are at the euros for the first time in 24 years and are enjoying themselves and supporting their country. i wish i could of gone myself. their attitude and support is a credit to the country

He's not having a pop at the fans IMO.

What he's saying is too much emphasis is being put on how vocal the supporters are and how all the talk is about them and not the standard of play we're seeing on the pitch. ''Oh we lost but weren't the fans great''....

[NeverFeltBetter]

It's perfectly ok to be dissapointed in the teams result and performance but still be proud that they got there and still be proud in your country. Do we want to be like England in South Africa, walking off the pitch to their own fans booing?

I'm not happy with the team at all, but I have nothing but admiration for those fans.

[Crosby87]

Meh, onward and upward. Croatia and Spain are a terrible fit for us. The world cup suits us so much more, with the bad teams from various parts of the Earth. We will be in Brasil with Stephen Ireland marshalling our midfield. And think of the women. Its going to be a great party, only 2 summers away.

[NeverFeltBetter]

And, to add to the reasons to be cheerful, the expanded Euro's should be easier to qualify for as well.

We'll be back, sooner then some people think.

[backstothewall]

Given - Hard to rate. A lot of great saves, but a lot of errors, especially in the first half. Looks half fit at best - 5
O'Shea - Dreadful. Kept giving it away. Not a full back - 4
Dunne - The man is a lion but a few big errors. I don't blame him for the first but at fault for the second - 4
Sledge - Best of the back four - 6
Ward - Don't think he could have done much more for the first. Not as good as Sledge at the back, but best of the rest -5
Duff - Decent, was perhaps hooked off to save him any further humiliation - 6
Andrews - Tried his best, fluffed one decent chance - 5
Whelan - Much like Andrews. Like Kanoute holding back the tide - 5
McGeady - Couple of decent crosses but an awful performance all round - 3
Cox. Ran hard but that was it. Not his position - 5
Keane Impossible to properly rate as he was so isolated. Only came into the game when he got ****ed off and ran back into midfield to get the ball. - 6

McClean - Not as good as Duff who he replaced, but light years ahead of McGeady - 5
Walters - Put himself about. Our biggest threat when he came on - 6
Green - Don't want to talk about it - 4

[the bear]

the team didn't perform, but the fans did all they could.

why is it considered just a sing song, what else can be expected of fans, spain were winning 4 nil and all that could be heard was the fields of athenry. thats the best support any team could hope for.

the team deserves critiscm but not the fans

[Condex]

sledger has been our best defender at the euros

Just proves how crap our defence is..
A player that struggles to get into a championship team is our best defender..

[the bear]

Just proves how crap our defence is..
A player that struggles to get into a championship team is our best defender..

maybe so, i havent seen to much of him at club level but from what ive seen at international i cant believe a prem club hasn't snapped him up

[tricky_colour]

And, to add to the reasons to be cheerful, the expanded Euro's should be easier to qualify for as well.

We'll be back, sooner then some people think.


Frightening thought!!! :untroubled:

[NeverFeltBetter]

Like, I get why Roy Keane and others are annoyed about the singing. I also get frustrated at the sense from some fans that draws and "moral" victories are all we an hope for sometimes. I get annoyed from a sense, occasionally, that some of our fanbase doesn't think we can be any better.

But those fans tonight gave Euro 2012 one of its most memorable and heart-wrenching scenes. We need more of that, every game.

[irishultra]

What an absolute joke. Spain are quality, but we're a team of professionals, they could have scored 10. The 'fighting irish'? we went out with a whimper.

[backstothewall]

Like, I get why Roy Keane and others are annoyed about the singing. I also get frustrated at the sense from some fans that draws and "moral" victories are all we an hope for sometimes. I get annoyed from a sense, occasionally, that some of our fanbase doesn't think we can be any better.

But those fans tonight gave Euro 2012 one of its most memorable and heart-wrenching scenes. We need more of that, every game.

I think that's a misreading of the attitude of the fans. We know we can do better, but even if we don't we're still going to enjoy ourselves.

[Condex]

Just not good enough..
Teams such as Turkey and Belguim would have contributed a lot more..

[NeverFeltBetter]

Just some of the fanbase I meant.

[Condex]

From the Guardian

By Jim White, in Gdansk
10:27PM BST 14 Jun 2012

Defeat by Spain ensured they would be the first team to be knocked out of Euro 2012, heading home with little to show beyond half of their followers’ life savings left in the tills of Poland’s licensed premises.

In truth, the weather was in tune with the event. Down on the pitch under the soaring copper-coloured roof of the Gdansk stadium, the sun set on Ireland’s endeavour soon after kick-off.

Within three minutes of this game starting, Richard Dunne completed a stirring sliding tackle on Andres Iniesta.

But winning the ball from Spain is only ever half the battle; it is keeping it that counts.

Before he had managed to climb back on his feet, the Aston Villa stalwart was dispossessed by Fernando Torres, who then hammered it past Shay Given in a manner that suggested his past two years had been an optical illusion and he was back in a Liverpool shirt.

We had known before it started that Ireland were in for a tough evening. After watching Croatia and Italy draw they knew at least a point was required from this game to keep their tournament alive. Outside in the stadium concourses, the throaty Irish support insisted that the score would be — as all the pundits had predicted — 4-1 (except with a Robbie Keane hat-trick and one from Simon Cox.)

But the team sheets did not suggest such fanciful Irish hopes would long be detained. In midfield Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan were up against Iniesta and Xavi Hernández: as contests go, rarely since the early days of Frank Bruno’s professional career can we have encountered one as one-sided as this.

Spain had so much of the ball it appeared to be attached to their multicoloured boots. But the men in red not only know how to keep possession, they know how to win it back.

Ireland, on the rare occasion they took charge of the ball, a moment serenaded with an uproarious round of olés by their boisterous fans, seemed panicked into trying to do something exciting with it.

A Hollywood pass would be attempted, a long punt forward for poor Robbie Keane to chase like a wayward spaniel hurtling across a beach in pursuit of the wrong tennis ball. With the inevitable result the ball would be quickly returned to their opponents once again.

But, if those who might face Spain later in the draw (and that could include England in the quarter-finals) wish to draw one comfort from this mismatch, it is this: as we have seen so often from Barcelona, with Spain possession can soon come to be an end in itself.

Converting that into identifiable chances, never mind goals, is something else entirely. If Spain were a Shakespeare play they would be Hamlet, the brilliant masters of procrastination. Boy, they don’t half faff about.

And although they scored four times here (David Silva’s second a thing of such impudent beauty it should be framed and hung in the Prado Museum) a more competent defence might be able to frustrate them into self-indulgence, a more persuasive midfield might then be able to make something of scraps of possession. It is not over yet.

Except for Ireland, that is. For them this competition is now definitively in the past tense. For their fans, who have brought so much jollity to this tournament, acting as counterweights to the niggardly dispatches detailing racism and hooliganism, homophobia and overpriced hotels, the end is now here.

Their departure after Monday’s final group game with Italy will reduce the volume in Poland. These fans will be missed. Unlike their team, who were barely noticed.

[NeverFeltBetter]

These fans will be missed. Unlike their team, who were barely noticed.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Adrock]

Nice of Spain to spare our delicate feelings for the last 20 minutes by playing with no forwards, or were they perhaps just trying desperately to stem the offensive onslaught we were subjecting them to?
I'm glad anyway Mclean got his chance to run like a headless chicken towards the nearest group of Spanish players though, to at least prevent the inevitable strawclutching by journalists, commentators and people in bars that if only he was on the pitch it would all have been so different............

To be fair we actually gave it our best shot, there was no casualness, tactical naivety or general cluelesness going on like in the Staunton era it was just a chasm in class. They had Xavi and Iniesta in the middle of the park, we had Whelan and Andrews. They brought Fabregas on off the bench, we brought on Paul Green.We got anyone playing Champions league these days who's going have faced that kind of football recently

Still you cant play Estonia every big game can you? They've just got to dust themselves off, try and learn a few lessons in the art of damage limitation and concentration, haul St Ledger up off his ass and try and come back in a few days and show we are not in fact the worst team in the tournament. That at least will give our ever wondrous fans something legitimate so sing and dance about at least.

[tricky_colour]

sledger has been our best defender at the euros

These Euro's?

Not too clever today but then who was?

[irishultra]

Pretty much, yeah.

That's what hurts the most. No fight, no guts, no belief, talent doesn't mean everything, but we didn't compensate our lack of talent with enough fight.
Spain are good, but they don't beat every team by multiple goals, look at them in the last world cup, they struggled to get by teams all the way through

[bishbash]

Nice of Spain to spare our delicate feelings for the last 20 minutes by playing with no forwards, or were they perhaps just trying desperately to stem the offensive onslaught we were subjecting them to?
I'm glad anyway Mclean got his chance to run like a headless chicken towards the nearest group of Spanish players though, to at least prevent the inevitable strawclutching by journalists, commentators and people in bars that if only he was on the pitch it would all have been so different............

To be fair we actually gave it our best shot, there was no casualness, tactical naivety or general cluelesness going on like in the Staunton era it was just a chasm in class. They had Xavi and Iniesta in the middle of the park, we had Whelan and Andrews. They brought Fabregas on off the bench, we brought on Paul Green.We got anyone playing Champions league these days who's going have faced that kind of football recently

Still you cant play Estonia every big game can you? They've just got to dust themselves off, try and learn a few lessons in the art of damage limitation and concentration, haul St Ledger up off his ass and try and come back in a few days and show we are not in fact the worst team in the tournament. That at least will give our ever wondrous fans something legitimate so sing and dance about at least.

Mcclean played for 15 mins, what about half the team that have played a full campaign and done very similar things e.g Hunt. Give the fella a chance. St Ledger is a good blocker that's about it, if we are to try and start passing the ball from Keeper out he's not going to cut it. McCarthy, ciaran clark, Coleman, Hoolahan, Wilson and perhaps even Anthony stokes to be involved from here on in. Paul Green and Mcshane forget about it.


By the way I don't have a problem with tonight's result at all, but let's not kid ourselvesin qualifying against mediocre teams we didn't set the world alight by any means, theses defeats are not mistakes or hard luck, they are a reality check

[magicman]

Completely devastated after that. Been up since 2am Melbourne time to watch both games and it's not 8.30. Sitting at my desk nearly an hour and cannot bring myself to do anything.

It isn't the defeat that bothers me. I expected a drubbing but as CFDH said, it's the manner of the defeat. Where is the spirit gone? It was a team that took to the field that knew it was going to lose. When Torres scores the first and wheels off celebrating, in the back ground you can see one or two Irish players with their hands on heads. To me that is utter bullsh*t. Three minutes in and acting like the game is over. Surely that is the time for players to be talking, organizing and planning fcuking some way to get back into the game.

Is it true Trap said they had no Plan B if they fell behind? If that is true then he needs to answer for that. The most optimistic fans on here knew we would most likely fall behind at some stage.

I cannot fault Cox because he did the job he was asked to do. And he did it to the best of his abilities. But why in God's name did Keane not play that role and Long or Walters up top? Instead we have two tiny front men. The wingers and overlapping Ward were then trying to cross the ball(not that it made it into the box) when we had no real threat up front.

I expect to see same again for the Italy game. There is no changing now even though we have been ripped apart twice. We are out but all I want to see against Italy is pride and a bit of fight. I'd like to see Long and Walters but that won't happen

[SkStu]

It won't happen in case we get a positive result and Trap is forced to consider that he may have got it wrong for deciding on his first team 2 weeks ago, actually, when he announced the squad. Ridiculous.