Irish team for the Spain Match

[seanfhear]

Given/Westwood : If Shay is not fit then Kieron has to get the nod.


O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Ward

We could bring in Kelly at right back and let O'Shea play left back (it would be a risk but Ward is a risk)

Gibson Whelan Andrews

Our options are very limited but a team that has no creativity needs a player with at least some passing ability. There is no point having McGeady on the pitch if we are unable to supply him

Duff Keane Doyle

This is one area of the field that we do have plenty of options. Walters could take Robbies place and McClean a possible sub for Doyle.

Gibson must come in at midfields whether ii a 433(reason for edit, extreme embarassment) or 451.

We need at least some creativity. We just cannot be under the cosh for 90 minutes + injury time

[EAFC_rdfl]

Yes, lets play an extra man, its the only option (443??)!! :p
I wouldnt mind seeing something like this:
Westwood


O'Shea

Kelly Dunne St Ledger

McGeady/Duff Whelan Andrews McClean
Gibson
Walters/Long


Shay was not at himself last night, he could barely kick passed the halfway, so as much as it hurts to say it, he should be left out til fully fit.

Spain will have 3 up front, probably with a recognised striker this time, so go man on man with them, and have a sweeper behind the 3 markers. O'Shea is the best of a bad bunch for this role IMO, as I cant see any of the rest being up to it?

The only way to try break even in midfield is to heavily outnumber them, and hope that the wide men can work a break or two for us. Its a toss of a coin for me whether to go with duff or mcgeady, duff is getting on and Im not sure he can go another match after playing the full 90 last night. I also thought mcgeady was going well til taken off, relatively speaking. Its time to give McClean a run and see what he can do.

I dont know which striker is the best option, Walters I suppose if we are going to play hoofball again, but Long might be a better option in the hope that gibson and the 2 wingers might be able to play the odd smart ball in behind for him to run onto.

[backstothewall]

I think we have to drop Keane, and should drop Ward

------ Westwood --------
Kelly Sledge Dunne O'Shea
------- Whelan ----------
---- Andrews Gibson -----
--Duff --------McGeady--
-------- Walters ---------

I think there will be big changes after this tournament

[Crosby87]

I hate to say this b/c Duff is a great guy but he is way past his prime. Just invisible out there.
Spain must be licking their chops.

[third policeman]

I think there will be big changes after this tournament

Starting with the Manager!

[Murfinator]

We need to play intelligent ball retention players. Duff is good at this, Fahey would have been the ideal choice on the other flank. McClean would be the worst possible option unless we go for the same "beat them up" routine that failed so badly last night.

Gibson brought in would help, drop a striker. Play for set pieces and hope for the best. I'd fear for us if we played the same formation against a 6 man midfield, Italy played it smart yesterday by dropping De Rossi and Pirlo deep to make their plays outside of the congested centre. We don't have deep lying playmakers like that so I don't have a clue how we're going to get round that.

[backstothewall]

Starting with the Manager!

I can't see that happening, but why not indulge the point.

Who would you replace him with?

[Murfinator]

I hate to say this b/c Duff is a great guy but he is way past his prime. Just invisible out there.
Spain must be licking their chops.

When your midfield don't win or use the ball your attacking players don't see it. No point blaming the likes of Duff for being invisible, blame the providers who failed to provide for making him invisible.

[seanfhear]

Yes, lets play an extra man, its the only option (443??)!! :p
I wouldnt mind seeing something like this:
Westwood


O'Shea

Kelly Dunne St Ledger

McGeady/Duff Whelan Andrews McClean
Gibson
Walters/Long

Shay was not at himself last night, he could barely kick passed the halfway, so as much as it hurts to say it, he should be left out til fully fit.

Spain will have 3 up front, probably with a recognised striker this time, so go man on man with them, and have a sweeper behind the 3 markers. O'Shea is the best of a bad bunch for this role IMO, as I cant see any of the rest being up to it?

The only way to try break even in midfield is to heavily outnumber them, and hope that the wide men can work a break or two for us. Its a toss of a coin for me whether to go with duff or mcgeady, duff is getting on and Im not sure he can go another match after playing the full 90 last night. I also thought mcgeady was going well til taken off, relatively speaking. Its time to give McClean a run and see what he can do.

I dont know which striker is the best option, Walters I suppose if we are going to play hoofball again, but Long might be a better option in the hope that gibson and the 2 wingers might be able to play the odd smart ball in behind for him to run onto.Oops that should be 433.

I think that Trap must be made aware that we can live with going down but we do like to go down fighting.

There was little or no offensive (fight) side to the team last night.

Your team would have the ability to carry a threat and Robbie could play because he might get some service..

Hopefully even Trap can see that there must be some changes after last night.

It might be better if a mod changed the title of the thread as some people may think that the official team is being named here e.g. Your team against Spain.

[Noelys Guitar]

Team should be Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Ward
Duff Keane Gibson Andrews McGeady
Long

I would not play a target man like Walters or Doyle because we never win the second ball against really good teams like Spain. They will fully expect us to play that way so don't.

[shakermaker1982]

Westwood

Kelly Dunne St Ledger O'Shea

Duff Gibson Whelan Andrews McClean

Walters or Long



Given isn't fit and should never have started last night. Madness.

[passinginterest]

--------Westwood

O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Ward

Duff (Hunt) Gibson Whelan McGeady (McClean)
-------------Andrews

---------------Long (Walters)

That's probably the team I'd go for, with substitutios in brackets to be brought on in the second half depending on tiredness/effectiveness. Would be tempted to drop O'Shea for Kelly as he's another that's clearly not fit and his distribution was horrendous.

Have a nagging suspicion that Trap publicly questioning the system after the last friendly might have damaged some of the players belief in it. They just seemed a lot less confident in themsleves yesterday.

[Colbert Report]

I love how all of you figure O'Shea can play left back because he's played there a handful of times in emergency situations in his career. You think Trap hasn't thought of that already?

[shakermaker1982]

I love how all of you figure O'Shea can play left back because he's played there a handful of times in emergency situations in his career. You think Trap hasn't thought of that already?

He's definitely played LB more than a handful of times. Fergie used him there quite a bit when Evra was out. Kelly could go to LB. Anything is better than Ward.

[legendz]

If Given is not fit, Westwood has to start.

After last night, it's hard to disagree with: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/video-failure-to-deliver-in-poznan-could-push-keane-into-the-margins-3133691.html

It's a hard call on whether this is the time to change the current structure. The S.Indo to be fair were spot on with analysis yesterday. Spain will leave space to be attacked should Trap set the team up for that. I'd like to see Walters and Long start but there could be a place for McGeady off the front man with McClean starting on the left.

[third policeman]

Starting with the Manager!

Well at the risk of being lynched, I honestly think we would have been more competitive and played better football with Mick in charge. Trapp's biggest weaknesses are his obstinacy and conservatism. We should have integrated more of our better younger players fully into the squad way ahead of this tournamentClark, Coleman, Pilkington. McCarthy, McClean). We are relying on players who are simply not equiped to play at this level, and we are playing a system that is ugly and ineffective against decent footballing teams. Maybe we should have one manager to get us to tournaments and another to save us from the abysmal shame of last night's spectacle?

[nigel-harps1954]

Westwood

O'Shea Sledge Dunne Ward

McClean Whelan Andrews McGeady

Walters Long

[legendz]

Westwood

O'Shea Sledge Dunne Ward

McClean Whelan Andrews McGeady

Walters Long

Wouldn't disagree with that. Given purely down to being fit or not.

[Charlie Darwin]

He's definitely played LB more than a handful of times. Fergie used him there quite a bit when Evra was out. Kelly could go to LB. Anything is better than Ward.
Playing a right-footer at left-back would be anathema to Trap's system. It depends upon creating width and Ward is an important part of that (more so than O'Shea on the opposite side).

[bishbash]

I think a 3 man midfield of Gibson whelan and Andrews with mcgeady and McClean out wide and just one up front. Extra man in the middle might allow us to get a small foothold in the game. Mcgeady and McLean would give us energy out wide. Mcgeady on always a threat if we can get him on the ball. Cox on the left was as bizarre a decision as anything Staunton produced.

[Murfinator]

Brady gave out a very revealing statistic, JOS never once gave a pass to Duff at feet all night. How on earth do people criticise Duff for not doing anything when he's given no service whatsoever from his FB? If anyone on that flank needs to be dropped its JOS, our lack of footballing ability at the back is destroying us to build attacks.

[SkStu]

Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St. Ledger Ward
Gibson Andrews
McGeady Duff Hunt
Walters

4-2-3-1

Hunt to help Ward
Duff to retain and link play.

I fully expect argument about the players in the line of three but formation-wise we need to have a go.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Hunt in the centre yet.

[third policeman]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Hunt in the centre yet.

Hunt in goal perhaps?

[geysir]

I can't see a reason from our last 2 games, for O'Shea to play anywhere on thursday (apart from CM of course).

[ChrisRed]

I can't see Trap making any sweeping changes, Gibson in for Doyle and dropping to a 4-5-1 would probably be it.

Wouldn't mind seeing McClean get a chance but can't see Trap taking a chance in such a big game.

Would love to see Long & McClean given the chance from the start but Trap got us this far being conservative and not hitting the panic button after one bad game.

[tricky_colour]

We should copy Spain, ditch the strikers and play a 6 man mid-field
Would work well against Spain as man for man were are better them.


-----O'Shea---- Sledge ----Dunne ----Ward -----

Duff --Hunt-- Andrews-- Trap -- McGeady ---McClean

[ChrisRed]

Not sure if Trap would be fit for 90 minutes these days.....

[koneinc]

Not sure if Trap would be fit for 90 minutes these days.....

Give him 45, then stick Green on ;-)

[tricky_colour]

Joking aside we only lost because of bad decisions, indeed had the decisions gone our way there is a good case for saying we would
have won, but there is room for improvement nonetheless.

[legendz]

Westwood
O'Shea Dunne St. Ledger Ward
Gibson Andrews
McGeady Duff Hunt
Walters


4-2-3-1


Hunt to help Ward
Duff to retain and link play.


I fully expect argument about the players in the line of three but formation-wise we need to have a go.
It'd be a bit of a throw back to '02 if Duff was to play in the centre. Possible option, McGeady could play there as well, as could Hunt. Maybe all three switching positions but surely too late for any change like that? Dropping in an extra midfielder is surely the easiest change but should it be done?

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Hunt in the centre yet.
Has he played there much? As I say, possibly 3 players could interchange in that role but can't see Trap adopting that approach.

I can't see a reason from our last 2 games, for O'Shea to play anywhere on thursday (apart from CM of course).
I've seen him play full-back for Sunderland and have not been impressed. He has no distribution at all. I actually would agree that if he was to play anywhere, it'd be slotting in as an extra midfielder but again, can't see it happening. He's done alright CB under O'Neill as well but no place there.

I can't see Trap making any sweeping changes, Gibson in for Doyle and dropping to a 4-5-1 would probably be it.


Wouldn't mind seeing McClean get a chance but can't see Trap taking a chance in such a big game.


Would love to see Long & McClean given the chance from the start but Trap got us this far being conservative and not hitting the panic button after one bad game.


Have to agree with that. Should Keane be dropped though? If he should be, will Trap drop him? I agree with the article in the S.Indo yesterday. If Gibson comes in for Doyle, I'd like to see Long or Walters possibly come in in attack.



Joking aside we only lost because of bad decisions, indeed had the decisions gone our way there is a good case for saying we would
have won, but there is room for improvement nonetheless.


Bad decisions did not help but I still don't think it'd have made much of a difference. Still though goals do change games so it's fair to question it. 1-1 at half-time, we could've looked at a different second-half. Trap wouldn't have needed to make some of the changes. Croatia seemed to have more though, the goal after half-time summed up our night.

[SkStu]

Joking aside we only lost because of bad decisions, indeed had the decisions gone our way there is a good case for saying we would
have won, but there is room for improvement nonetheless.

Sorry, that's just deluded. We conceded a couple of fortuitous enough goals but the better team won. Most teams have a decent penalty shout waved away per game. We just didn't defend very well, that's why we lost.

I agree that there is room for improvement. Lots. Almost as much as we gave Croatia in our own half last night.

[elroy]

Most important thing is not to give away anything stupid so early like we did against Croatia. Dont fancy us chasing a lead against Spain. First goal should be to get to half at worst 0-0 and then go from there.

Im not convinced Dunne, JOSH and Given are fully fit but all will probably play. I suspect Trap will make a max of 2 changes from the following:
Walters for Doyle
Hunt for McGeady
Gibson for Whelan.

[tricky_colour]

Sorry, that's just deluded. We conceded a couple of fortuitous enough goals but the better team won. Most teams have a decent penalty shout waved away per game. We just didn't defend very well, that's why we lost.

I agree that there is room for improvement. Lots. Almost as much as we gave Croatia in our own half last night.

The team which cheated the most won. If the CRoats had any decency they woudl agree to a replay.

[Noelys Guitar]

The player who should be dropped is Whelan. I watched the game again today and he played like he was running through treacle. Gave a pass away in the first half that allowed a Croatian a clear run on goal when under no pressure. He kept slowing down our play and turning his back on a forward pass and playing it back to the defense putting them under pressure. Something else I noticed was the defense stepped up a few minutes before we scored. Rather than passing to Whelan who to his credit kept showing for the ball we began to play directly from Dunne or Sledge to McGeady or Duff. Our two wide players came more into the game and Doyle and Keane started to cause their defense some problems. We looked like we might score again and then the defense started to drop deep again. Trap can clearly be seen having a few words with Andrews around this time. I watched the Sky interview with Trap and I didn't here him say he was contemplating changes. So it could be the same team starting again. Possibly with the only change being Keane dropping into midfield. That won't work against Spain. If we are going route one then it has to be Walters and Doyle. Not half hearted route one but 'classic' route one. Defending from the front route one. Playing for a 0-0 or hoping for a half chance and a 1-0. If we are going one up front it should be Long for his pace and ability to score against teams with top defenders. Bring Gibson into midfield with Keane also dropping into midfield.

[Philly]

I'd like to see this team. St Ledger, despite his goal, was not strong at the back at all and I worry about how he will deal with Spain. JOSH, assuming his fitness is okay, would at least offer experience at the back. His crap passing doesn't warrant him playing RB and Kelly is trusty enough. A five man midfield would at least tame the Spanish a little, and Gibson could push forward when he had the opportunity. Duff is one of the few players in the team who is well able to retain the ball for more than a few seconds so he gets another chance despite being poor Sunday.

-------------------------Westwood--------------------------

Kelly---------Dunne---------------JOSH----------------Ward

Duff------Gibson-----Andrews-------Whelan--------McGeady

-----------------------Long/Walters------------------------


All that being said, I have a sneaky feeling Trap will play the same team v. Spain.

[Crosby87]

Is Westwood definitely in?

[brine3]

Agreed that Duff needs to be played in the middle. Just like Yorke was in midfield for T&T and Giggs in midfield for Man Utd. Duff is our best footballer and he is more valuable in the middle. He looked good whenever he drifted into the middle on Sunday night. In fact, our team should have been built around him. I've been saying this for the last year at least. He's as close as we have to a Modric. And he has years of experience.

We don't need to waste Duff on the wing anyway when we have both McClean and McGeady.

Ward is a total liability and has to be dropped.

Walters needs to feature somehow as the Spanish centre backs really don't like that kind of striker.

[tricky_colour]

Ward is a total liability and has to be dropped.




His goals per game compares favourably with some of our strikers!!

[SkStu]

I thought Ward did fine.

[tricky_colour]

I thought Ward did fine.

I have just been looking at the Ward pass which went astray and in a way lead to the second goal.
First time I looked at it I put it down to a Ward mistake but having seen it again a dew time I have changed my view.
Firstly negative pay all round, the ball was played to McGeady but instead of attacking he passed it back to Whelan,
he could have played it to Keane or Doyle, both unmarked. Whelan then plays it (again backwards) to Ward when he
too could have played it to either Keane or Doyle both unmarked and in acres of space.
Ward seems to have twigged 'the plan' now (pass it towards your own goal). He too could have played a ball up
to Keane or Doyle, who appear to be in acres of space (can only see the area covered by the camera).
(By the way the Croats seem to have figured there is no point in marking Keane or Doyle because nobody passes to
them anyway!).
So Ward plays a back pass to Whelan who seems slightly asleep or slow to react, the Croats gain possession, a corner and a goal.

So what is the point of Keane and Doyle being up front if nobody passes to them.

OK so Keane or Doyle might have lost the ball, but it is far better to lose it in the oppositions final third than your own,
hell they might even have gone on and scored a goal!!!

Negativity is the key, we had settled for a draw at half time and thus go in a goal down.

If I can make a clip of it I might put it on youtube, however it is the passage of play from 41.28ish to 41:45 on the official clock.

[geysir]

I'm surprised nobody has suggested Hunt in the centre yet.



Has he played there much? As I say, possibly 3 players could interchange in that role but can't see Trap adopting that approach.




I can't see a reason from our last 2 games, for O'Shea to play anywhere on thursday (apart from CM of course).

I've seen him play full-back for Sunderland and have not been impressed. He has no distribution at all. I actually would agree that if he was to play anywhere, it'd be slotting in as an extra midfielder but again, can't see it happening. He's done alright CB under O'Neill as well but no place there.

Legendz, there's a 'slight' possibility Charlie was being sarcastic about Hunt for CM and a stronger than slight possibility that I was being sarcastic about O'Shea for CM.

On a serious note, O'Shea is not match sharp and is showing it in spades.

[Stuttgart88]

Just back from Poznan.

Duff is beyond criticism in my opinion, he was the only guy who actually seemed comfortable on the ball all night. Of the back 5 I thought Ward was nervous, JOS and Dunne off the pace, Shay sluggish and only St. Ledger was firing on all cylinders from the go.

McGeady was just awful I thought, always waiting for the ball to arrive and getting off from a standing start and then doing sod all.

On the basis of what I saw on Sunday:

------------Shay ----------
Kelly -- Dunne -- SSL -- O'Shea
---------Whelan--------
Duff--Gibson--Andrews--McClean
---------Walters--------

[shakermaker1982]

I like that team Stutts. It's what I went for.

Keane can come back for the Italy game.

However the Trap will remain loyal and hope they repay him by having the games of their lives.

[geysir]

RTE reports (training match spy) suggest Kelly is inline to replace O'Shea and Keane to play with Wally.

[Stuttgart88]

I like that team Stutts. It's what I went for.Not guilty of plagiarism, honest! I didn't have time to catch up on the earlier posts.

[shakermaker1982]

Not guilty of p[agiarism, honest! I didn't have time to catch up on the earlier posts.

Sounds like the only change is Walters for Doyle. Sigh.

3 central midfielders plugging the gaps and forcing the Spanish out wide would seem the sensible thing to do....

[legendz]

Lee Carsley:

Ireland need a high-tempo strategy to throw the gauntlet down to classy Spainhttp://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0612/1224317754010.html#.T9b71zrgieo.twitter

[brine3]

I hate to say this b/c Duff is a great guy but he is way past his prime. Just invisible out there.
Spain must be licking their chops.

Are you mad, he was the only one playing football and was Ireland's MOTM by far.

Trap left him play the whole 90 minutes because he was our best player.

[brine3]

Sounds like the only change is Walters for Doyle. Sigh.

3 central midfielders plugging the gaps and forcing the Spanish out wide would seem the sensible thing to do....

Yep. Xavi, Iniesta and Xabi Alonso are going to slice through Andrews and Whelan.

Could end up being very embarassing.

Hope not of course.

But you look at how Paraguay and Swtizerland - small countries like ourselves - got under Spain's skin and it was by choking the midfield. We seem to have misinterpreted "choking the midfield" as "choking in midfield".

Even Jack understood this when he went 4-5-1 against the Italians in Giants Stadium.