Euro 2012 General Discussion

[DannyInvincible]

There's no thread for general, non-Ireland discussion so just thought I'd start one as I'm sure people will want to discuss games and issues not pertaining to ourselves as well.

(Is it OK to have it in this section or should it be in 'World Football'?)

[tricky_colour]

I'd rather have it in here.
Jumping across forums is a real pain.
I hate that forums want to put everything in it's little pigeon hole.

[geysir]

I hate that forums want to put everything in it's little pigeon hole.
Some people hate misplaced apostrophe's. Not me though

[geysir]

You can take the goalkeeper away from Arsenal but not take the Arsenal out of the goalkeeper.

[Real ale Madrid]

Russia are a nice team to watch when you are not on the recieving end of a hiding.

[passinginterest]

Nice to watch and good work rate so far, dropping into a really tight 4-1-4-1 when defending. They've a few lazy players though and I don't think they'll maintain the discipline, they'll concede from a set piece and then it's anyones game.

[Charlie Darwin]

Nice to watch and good work rate so far, dropping into a really tight 4-1-4-1 when defending. They've a few lazy players though and I don't think they'll maintain the discipline, they'll concede from a set piece and then it's anyones game.
It wasn't a set piece but great call nonetheless. I didn't see the Czechs getting anything.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Are the Russians an 'aging' team?

Something that always put you off backing an Advocaat team...

Great third there.

Cech looks average.

[geysir]

Both teams are very sloppy and wasteful with possession in this 2nd half, still an interesting game nonetheless, in that anything could happen.

[seanfhear]

The Russians were great. So, Ireland must be on their way to Greatness (Hopefully).

[passinginterest]

It wasn't a set piece but great call nonetheless. I didn't see the Czechs getting anything.

Czechs didn't have the discipline themselves when they got a goal back, kept getting opened up and eventually paid the price. There was definitely a spell where they could have got a point though as Russia looked tired and rattled.

[Crosby87]

I think Cech's club owner may have bought him a new villa in exchange for that performance.

[tricky_colour]

Some people hate misplaced apostrophe's. Not me though



Just as well because the apostrophe denotes possession, thus I am correct because the place belongs to it so thus it is it's place.

Correct?

[Charlie Darwin]

Nope.

[tricky_colour]

Yes I see he was not even referring to that, not to sure exactly what he meant
but 7 other people seem to understand it, so I guess it does make some sort of sense.

[SkStu]

It's = it is.
Its = belongs to it
Itz = goodbye grammar nazis, hello txtspk nazis...

[shakermaker1982]

Thank we had Richard Dunne out in Moscow.

2 cracking games.

[DannyInvincible]

Two very entertaining games to get the tournament under way. I think Russia and Greece will make it out of Group A. The Czechs were very poor last night and Russia were simply ruthless when actually applying themselves (bar Kerzhakov having a nightmare in front of goal for a spell before being subbed). Russia have a tendency to lose the run of themselves or take the foot off the pedal after an initial storming out of the blocks; maybe down to indiscipline and poor mentality. They did the same after going 3-0 up in Dublin when we brought it back to 3-2 and nearly even scraped a point. There was a spell when I could easily have seen the Czechs score an equaliser in spite of Russia's clear dominance and superiority. They're an able side but I also think they're bottler-material.

I'd be frustrated - maybe even angered - if I was a Greece fan having watched their 1-1 draw with Poland. I think they have a right to feel aggrieved coming out of that with just a point. The referee had a complete brainfart for about ten minutes before half-time, during which he sent off Papastathopoulos for very little and denied the Greeks a penalty after a blatant hand-ball by the grounded Polish defender inside the box. The BBC pundits didn't even touch on the latter in their half-time analysis. Add to that, the Greeks' domination of the second-half, Karagounis missing a penalty and a possible Salpingidis goal being ruled off-side. The off-side decision could easily have gone either way. Poland showed nothing in the second half in the way of the creativity that excited in the first and Salpingidis was an inspiration for Greece when he came on. They had a poor start but possibly down to nerves before settling in. I'd just like to add that Samaras is abysmal. There's just something about his appearance on a football pitch that grates with me. He looks out-of-place, is wasteful as a striker and is ineffective as a target man (despite his height). He's generally frustrating to watch and he carries himself like he hasn't a care in the world.

Anyway, nice to have a bit of atmosphere back in the stadiums for a major finals too. As "cultural" as the constant drone of the vuvuzelas was at World Cup 2010, there was absolutely nothing atmospheric about it. I missed the tensions, lulls and crescendos in crowd noise in response to events on the pitch.

[bennocelt]

Very good Danny, agree with all that. Just to add I thought in fact that Salpingidis was the player of the day, the way he totally changed that game was amazing. I do think a draw though was probably the fairest result.
Russia were great but as Beglin said on ITV, can they do the dirty work? Also seeing the Mexican wave was annoying - what kind of vanker does that during a game - im totally engrossed in a match no time with that messing!!!!

[geysir]

Russia were excellent in spurts against a dodgy back line. In the 2nd half for 30 minutes they couldn't string 2 passes but neither could the Czechs in the same period. If a team can just hang in there against the Russians they will get their chances. The Czechs are a team that could do with a coach like Trap, good technical players but with no defensive cohesion. There will be a scrap for 2nd place but I don't fancy Poland. If their second half performance is more representative of what Greece are about, then they might edge out the Czechs with a draw against Russia in game 3.

[osarusan]

I think they have a right to feel aggrieved coming out of that with just a point. The referee had a complete brainfart for about ten minutes before half-time, during which he sent off Papastathopoulos for very little and denied the Greeks a penalty after a blatant hand-ball by the grounded Polish defender inside the box.

Sending off was debatable - I wasn't surprised to see him go, and if he hadn't already been on a yellow, he might have got a straight red.

I definitely didn't think it was a penalty - no intent and his arm wasn't in an unnatural position.

[geysir]

It was no Lee Carsley stonewaller hand ball.

[Charlie Darwin]

Sending off was debatable - I wasn't surprised to see him go, and if he hadn't already been on a yellow, he might have got a straight red.
It wasn't a foul. The Polish player slipped and fell into him.

[DannyInvincible]

Very good Danny, agree with all that. Just to add I thought in fact that Salpingidis was the player of the day, the way he totally changed that game was amazing. I do think a draw though was probably the fairest result.
Russia were great but as Beglin said on ITV, can they do the dirty work? Also seeing the Mexican wave was annoying - what kind of vanker does that during a game - im totally engrossed in a match no time with that messing!!!!

Ten minutes longer and there'd have been paper planes.


Sending off was debatable - I wasn't surprised to see him go, and if he hadn't already been on a yellow, he might have got a straight red.

Only because the referee somehow perceived the situation incorrectly.


I definitely didn't think it was a penalty - no intent and his arm wasn't in an unnatural position.

What's an "unnatural position"? He certainly didn't handle deliberately - very few punished hand-balls are deliberate - but he moved an outstretched arm towards the ball. That's an offence, in my book.

[Charlie Darwin]

Was it not his supporting arm the ball hit?

[DannyInvincible]

Both arms were supporting after he knocked the ball towards his left:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkqOpPRnltY

[smurfty]

Russia v Czech Republic was a great game to watch. If this standard keeps up it should be a great tournament. :D

[geysir]

I didn't see any deliberate movement from his hand to the ball. The ref did enough to bring the game into disrepute but the decision not to award a penalty there, shouldn't be held against him.
I thought Howard Webb did well in the later game, it's rare to find a ref at this type of competition who refs a game in the way he did.

[sullanefc]

No pen for me. The greek who got sent off should not have gotten the first yellow, but I can see how the ref gave the second yellow. I know the guy was slipping anyway, but the defender still put his arms across to block his path and further helped him to the ground. He probably wouldn't have had a clear goal scoring opportunity, but it was cynical by the defender and a yellow was probably correct. As I said, the mistake was the first yellow.

[bennocelt]

It wasn't a foul. The Polish player slipped and fell into him.

Yeah but the goalie did bring him down. I think it was a peno. As regards the non - peno - I think that was one as well - thought that in real time too. But in a funny way it was good for Greece they didnt get it - it sure fired them up for the second half

[DannyInvincible]

I didn't see any deliberate movement from his hand to the ball.

What do you deem "deliberate"? I'd deem "deliberate" to mean an intent to handle the ball. Luis Saurez versus Ghana in the 2010 World Cup was deliberate, but plenty of penalties are awarded without deliberate movements of the arm towards the ball.

[geysir]

An intent to handle the ball is not enough on its own with out the contact :)

I suppose deliberate is a movement by the hand towards the ball and making contact, like Lee Carsley on the ground v Turkey. Is it not up to ref to decide if the hand movement is deliberate? There are plenty of grey areas, like a player leaving his hand outstretched. In the game last night the player fell to ground and the ball touched his hand, it's unlikely the player intended the fall and unlikely he intended to handle the ball, therefore it was up to the ref and the alert assistant behind the line to make a split decision and I'd agree with their decision.

[DannyInvincible]

An intent to handle the ball is not enough on its own with out the contact :)

I am aware of mens rea and actus reus. ;)


I suppose deliberate is a movement by the hand towards the ball and making contact, like Lee Carsley on the ground v Turkey. Is it not up to ref to decide if the hand movement is deliberate? There are plenty of grey areas, like a player leaving his hand outstretched. In the game last night the player fell to ground and the ball touched his hand, it's unlikely the player intended the fall and unlikely he intended to handle the ball, therefore it was up to the ref and the alert assistant behind the line to make a split decision and I'd agree with their decision.

The player did intend the fall though, in that he deliberately got himself into such a position whereby he would require a supporting left hand as he fell to the ground in order to block the ball. If penalties were given only for incidents where the ball is handled strictly intentionally (like the Luis Saurez example), very few would be awarded at all.

[geysir]

The player did intend the fall though, in that he deliberately got himself into such a position whereby he would require a supporting left hand as he fell to the ground in order to block the ball.
You are mind reading, I thought only POS could do that :) The player intended to block the ball. The rest is just consequences after his botched attempt to do so, not deemed to be deliberate by the ref and I'd agree.
Your argument is akin to stating that a player was intentionally standing in the box, the ball hit his hand, therefore the player had deliberately got himself into that position by intentionally being in the exact location whereby his hand hit the ball.

[Crosby87]

Danny Invincible has always gone Greek.

[paul_oshea]

our countries got no money...but we've got robbie keane

[Noelys Guitar]

It was good to see Russia winning fairly easily against the Czechs. If Ireland was a racehorse we would be favourites for tomorrows game. I thought Russia moved the ball exactly the way the moved it against us in both games. If Arshavin didn't overrun the ball so much they would be an even more dangerous team. Just feel they will concede too many goals to win the Euros outright.

[geysir]

2 games a day is doable, 3 would be stretching it on all levels.
16 team format is just perfect, shame they want to fix something that is far from being broken.

A couple of 'decent' games on today, should complete the launch of Euro 2012.
A Germany v Netherlands finals fixture rarely lets you down.

[Eminence Grise]

A couple of 'decent' games on today, should complete the launch of Euro 2012.
A Germany v Netherlands finals fixture rarely lets you down.

I feel let down. Germany have turned up as Denmark.

[geysir]

You're not the only one let down :)

[bennocelt]

Didnt see that one coming. Kjaer was magnificent in defence, but my god the Dutch didnt have their shooting boots on. Hardly deserved the peno, probably would have missed it anyway.

[geysir]

Yeah, they didn't deserve to get the draw by virtue of a last minute penalty.

[Noelys Guitar]

Germany flattering to deceive again. Lucky not to be a goal down.

[Murfinator]

Germany flattering to deceive again.

They've been the best footballing team for the past two tournaments, what on earth are you on about?

[Crosby87]

Got a nice nap during Germany Portugal. Thought it was boring as sh**.

[bennocelt]

Jeez Germany didnt look good at all - maybe this tournament can be won by any team?

[geysir]

I thought the game was intriguing. I don't know why Portugal persisted with caution and not playing their natural attacking game.

Ozil was so knackered, he barely made it to the dugout when he was substituted.

[seanfhear]

I thought the game was intriguing. I don't know why Portugal persisted with caution and not playing their natural attacking game.

Ozil was so knackered, he barely made it to the dugout when he was substituted.I noticed that about Ozil alright. Scheinstegger(?) covers a lot of ground as well (according to the commentators stats). The germans do work hard when they are playing for their country (Angela will be happy)

Re; Portugal, When you have two players like Ronaldo and Nani then you have to be prepared to have a go. They will have to in the next game now.

[Stuttgart88]

What about Group D? I only saw last the 15 of FRA v ENG but I enjoyed UKR v SWE.

At HT in the second game the BBC pundits were smugly proclaiming that ENG had nothing to fear from those other two teams. England would have nothing to fear playing a pumped up Ukraine away in front of a mad crowd? I actually thought both teams played good stuff and there could have been more goals in it. England played well without the ball, but didn't look too good on it.

[Stuttgart88]

OK, so it seems to be theme in the last year or so that well set-up teams are able to nullify the more fluent passing teams, and are well capable of nicking results.

So, is this the end of the brief dominance of tika taka and what will be tweaked by the better passing teams to get back on top of the spiolers?

I just don't like the way Spain, Barcelona, France etc. play without a proper number 9, someone to attack the ball in the box and who can hold it up. OK, Bayern had one but he had a shocker against Chelsea.