How the rest of the world see us....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Starting with.

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=19125

[bennocelt]

Skimmed it but noticed this!
"If there is one thing that Ireland are good at – really good at – it is getting through the group stages of major tournaments. In fact, they’ve never failed to get through the group stages of a tournament that they have entered before."

[gastric]

Ireland are by far the rank outsiders to win the tournament according to Australian bookmakers. You can get us at over $100. The media over here see us as making up numbers too and as we don't play like Spain we are seen as hacks.
Therefore, ignorance prevails over here. When I am told we have no chance, I simply point out that our population is smaller than the population of Melbourne and this tends to shut the ignorant, often arrogant Aussie up!

[osarusan]

Skimmed it but noticed this!
"If there is one thing that Ireland are good at – really good at – it is getting through the group stages of major tournaments. In fact, they’ve never failed to get through the group stages of a tournament that they have entered before."

Except Euro 88, but with 8 teams that was a very difficult challenge.

[boysingreen]

We have roughly the same population as Croatia in the Republic (4.5 mil). Spain = 47 mil, Italy = 60 mil. We're certainly punching above our weight.

Most uninformed folk are blown away by the population of Ireland, because of the size and scope of the diaspora.

[Crosby87]

Agree 100%. Most people i know figure Ireland has a population of around 8 mil.
Also Jedward aside, Ireland puts out a fine proportion of great music for its population numbers. So, if you can win Euro, you will be sitting pretty.:D

[BonnieShels]

If only for the "famine" conservative estimates would put our population at around the 15m mark now. Cannot for the life of me remember where I heard that stat.

[tricky_colour]

Except Euro 88, but with 8 teams that was a very difficult challenge.



But on the positive side we did finish above England who got 0 points, I think that more than makes up
for not progressing. Furthermore the two who qualified from the group both made the finals, so it is fair to say
were were the third best team in Europe at the time. We also drew with the winners Russia so a good case
to say were were the best team in Europe!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't you mean Holland?
Though they did need a dodgy goal to beat us...

But the after-match abuse of the Germans & English almost made it worth it.

[smurfty]

Starting with.

http://www.twohundredpercent.net/?p=19125

Good article. The possibility of getting through the group and meeting France in a quarter-final is mouth-watering. :D

[boysingreen]

Steve McManaman picked us to come second in the group to Spain.. over on soccernet.com (ESPN).

[mark12345]

"The media over here see us as making up numbers too and as we don't play like Spain we are seen as hacks."

Seen as hacks? We are hacks. That's all we do - hack the ball clear from defence, and when we do get it for a second in midfield, we hack it away to safety if pressured. We have about 2 per cent of the technical ability required to win the tournament and if you saw the defence on Monday last (away to Hungary) you would have been embarrassed in the extreme. I could have picked four friends to put up a better defensive performance.

You make a good point about the population of Ireland v Melbourne, but look at Holland. Eight million people - somehow they learned to play the correct way.

Look, I think we're all behind the lads on Sunday, and I think they have a bit of a chance, simply because we can score goals, but when we treat the ball like a hot potato we can't expect to go far. It's all down to proper coaching in the first place and we simply don't have that in Ireland.

[Crosby87]

But Mark, when was the last time Ireland lost a game? Sure it isnt all good, but he does end up getting results. We could have made the last World Cup. If we do resonably well here, can one really complain?
I dont think the lads really gave it their all vs Hungary. Its like the last pre season NFL game. Evryone is ready for the fun to start.

[mark12345]

"But Mark, when was the last time Ireland lost a game? Sure it isnt all good, but he does end up getting results. We could have made the last World Cup. If we do resonably well here, can one really complain? I dont think the lads really gave it their all vs Hungary. Its like the last pre season NFL game. Evryone is ready for the fun to start."

All true. But what's to stop us playing football as opposed to the prehistoric brand of the game we currently play (hoofing it long and surrendering possession for 70 per cent of the game). As I mentioned earlier - look at Holland and look at our coaching or lack of.

[jbyrne]

All true. But what's to stop us playing football as opposed to the prehistoric brand of the game we currently play (hoofing it long and surrendering possession for 70 per cent of the game). As I mentioned earlier - look at Holland and look at our coaching or lack of.

who else in the competition will play with two up front and 2 out and out wingers?

[Colbert Report]

who else in the competition will play with two up front and 2 out and out wingers?


I've heard that argument a few places, but I don't mind it. No other team will play with two central midfielders who are essentially both just advanced centre backs either.

[Stuttgart88]

I actually thought we did OK in the second half in Hungary and quite well overall against Bosnia. We just don't have a really top quality CM, though Gibson has the technique Mark's asking for. Whelan is actually technically quite accomplished. Often what distinguishes good players from better players are hard to teach qualities like vision, awareness, speed of thought, decision making etc. - though I'm not for a second denying that the right coaching can improve any of this. Even the top quality teams tend to have a grafter of sorts in midfield and that's what Andrews brings to the party for us.

I actually think the defenders played well on Monday but the team didn't defend well. It's not a defender's role to police the gap between our 2 lines of 4.

I also think the reason we play with 2 up front and 2 orthodox wingers is because we have good forwards and good wide players. We certainly don't lack width in our side and very often the better ball playing teams suffer from this. Barcelona v Chelsea for example.

Swings and roundabouts.

Discipline, application, quality of set-pieces, chance completion and luck will determine how we do.

[AlaskaFox]

who else in the competition will play with two up front and 2 out and out wingers?

Croatia will play a 442, as will Ukraine, and England will play a 4411 with wingers.

[backstothewall]

"The media over here see us as making up numbers too and as we don't play like Spain we are seen as hacks."

Seen as hacks? We are hacks. That's all we do - hack the ball clear from defence, and when we do get it for a second in midfield, we hack it away to safety if pressured. We have about 2 per cent of the technical ability required to win the tournament and if you saw the defence on Monday last (away to Hungary) you would have been embarrassed in the extreme. I could have picked four friends to put up a better defensive performance.

You make a good point about the population of Ireland v Melbourne, but look at Holland. Eight million people - somehow they learned to play the correct way.

Look, I think we're all behind the lads on Sunday, and I think they have a bit of a chance, simply because we can score goals, but when we treat the ball like a hot potato we can't expect to go far. It's all down to proper coaching in the first place and we simply don't have that in Ireland.

The last time the Netherlands had a population anything like as low as 8m, quite a few thousand of them were German soldiers. Try doubling 8m and you're getting somewhere close

We do what we do because it works for us. There have been no shortage of managers who have tried to get us passing the ball down through the years, but it never works.

If we try outplaying Croatia, Italy or Spain we will lose. But they will not be looking forward to playing us. We are indeed hacks, but we should be proud of it.

[mark12345]

If we try outplaying Croatia, Italy or Spain we will lose.

Absolutely true. But that's a measure of our ability

And should we be proud that we are hacks? I'm proud of the lads and will be kicking every ball on Sunday, but to say we should be proud of the way we play? That's a lesson I missed along the way.

[jbyrne]

Croatia will play a 442, as will Ukraine, and England will play a 4411 with wingers.

my response...


who else in the competition will play with two up front and 2 out and out wingers?

[mypost]

You make a good point about the population of Ireland v Melbourne, but look at Holland. Eight million people - somehow they learned to play the correct way.

What is the "correct way", apart from getting results? 14 results we've got now in a row. And it hasn't all been rubbish football either. One of them was a 5-0 win. Another was 4-0.

I said before Spain can have 99% possession against us, as long as we get a result. Give me a point now and I'll take it. The rest of the world will have to take it too.

[AlaskaFox]

my response...

I don't think our formation is all that different from the 3 I mentioned. Our CMs are probably more defensive, but our wingers are encouraged to cut in, like Srna will do for Croatia or Yarmolenko will do for Ukraine.

[BonnieShels]

What is the "correct way", apart from getting results? 14 results we've got now in a row. And it hasn't all been rubbish football either. One of them was a 5-0 win. Another was 4-0.

I said before Spain can have 99% possession against us, as long as we get a result. Give me a point now and I'll take it. The rest of the world will have to take it too.

Cheers dude. You responded how I wanted to earlier when I lost network on the phone.

[Charlie Darwin]

I've noticed a lot of the tournament previews are highlighting our apparent lack of creativity. Yet I don't know what you'd call our ability to create good chances from very limited possession except "creativity". Duff and McGeady may not produce much in the way of Youtube highlights, but between our four front players we always seem to create a few very scorable chances each game. What we lack is ball retention.

[backstothewall]

And should we be proud that we are hacks? I'm proud of the lads and will be kicking every ball on Sunday, but to say we should be proud of the way we play? That's a lesson I missed along the way.

Why wouldn't we be proud? We've punched above our weight at international level despite sparse resources by getting in our opponents faces, outworking them, and making life difficult for them. Such phrases are clumsy and crude, but for what its worth I feel the football we have played down through the years reflects our national character and the virtues of the Irish nation well.

[youngirish]

You make a good point about the population of Ireland v Melbourne, but look at Holland. Eight million people - somehow they learned to play the correct way.


Holland has about twice that figure so is not a small country in population terms at least.

[magicman]

Why wouldn't we be proud? We've punched above our weight at international level despite sparse resources by getting in our opponents faces, outworking them, and making life difficult for them. Such phrases are clumsy and crude, but for what its worth I feel the football we have played down through the years reflects our national character and the virtues of the Irish nation well.

Couldn't agree more. There was nothing more satisfying when playing or coaching then coming up against a superior team and, through hard work or good tactics, beating them. I understand why people get frustrated watching it, everybody does, but I couldn't be more proud watching us punching above our wait and frustrating the hell out of others!

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omD4O7YbIG0&feature=share

[Stuttgart88]

I just got emailed a funny tricolour photographed with its owners in Dublin airport with "Angela Merkel thinks we're working" printed on it.

[bennocelt]

I just got emailed a funny tricolour photographed with its owners in Dublin airport with "Angela Merkel thinks we're working" printed on it.

that would be funny to see, any chance of putting it up?

[geysir]

From Thailand


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kwSL-IUym08

[DannyInvincible]

that would be funny to see, any chance of putting it up?

http://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Au3AXJuCEAAGLFw.jpg

[BonnieShels]

That pic is all over Facebook.

[Stuttgart88]

That rules me out so

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://ballsoutinpublic.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/the-reigning-kings-the-disgraced-and-the-luck-of-the-irish-group-c/

[peadar1987]

Not to mention the fact that there is no rugby, gaelic or hurling in Holland, it is only football and hockey. With 4 times our population. Think Georgia, Norway, Finland or Singapore for places with similar populations to us.

[ArdeeBhoy]

And cycling and speed-skating.

Norway good at skiing and winter sports, Finland similar and quite useful at ice hockey.

But hopefully pretty handy at soccer for our size...

[bennocelt]

And darts, the Dutch are crazy about darts. When I lived there they had posters of darts players everywhere. Heck if we are talking about the gah........

[Irish_Praha]

And darts, the Dutch are crazy about darts. When I lived there they had posters of darts players everywhere. Heck if we are talking about the gah........
I'm not sure if darts has robbed Holland of any potential soccer superstars :p

[bennocelt]

I'm not sure if darts has robbed Holland of any potential soccer superstars :p

yeah thats why i mentioned gaa

[Irish_Praha]

yeah thats why i mentioned gaa

OK :)

[magicman]

Seems somebody doesn't have much time for his former country


FORMER REPUBLIC of Ireland international Michael Robinson, who is now a television presenter and leading football pundit in Spain, has compared this evening’s game in Gdansk to “Muhammad Ali fighting a dwarf”, and insisted Giovanni Trapattoni’s side “cannot win this match”.

In an interview with the Spanish newsagency EFE which Trapattoni might well stick up on the dressingroom wall prior to kick-off, Robinson, who has lived in Spain for a 25 years now, says he will be supporting Spain for football reasons and because of all that the country has given him since he moved there.

His assessment of Trapattoni and the Ireland team, though, is completely damning with the former Preston, Brighton and Liverpool striker describing their game plan as outdated and the players as essentially second rate. He predicts if the defending champions produce anything like their best form then they will run out very comfortable winners.

“There’s no threat from Ireland; Ireland cannot win this match,” he says. “It’s like Muhammad Ali fighting a dwarf. Ireland are going to try to be an irritating obstacle, but if Spain play at 80 per cent of their ability, they’ll thrash them.

“I’m supporting Spain,” he continued. “I hope Ireland go out of the tournament unscathed, that they play like gladiators. I hope Ireland finish the game with dignity, with the glory of competing with this great Spain side.

“But I’ve lived in Spain longer than I’ve lived in England. Spain has given me so much. And if I think about what’s best for football, I want beautiful football to prosper and be imitated. I really hope Spain win this tournament because children need to watch Spain and focus on them. Spain have returned the emphasis on playing with the ball, it’s brilliant.”

Asked if he feels the Irish game has moved on since his time in the side, primarily the early ’80s when he contributed, from the margins, to a Liverpool side that won the league, League Cup and European cup, Robinson is scathing.

“No, not at all. Perhaps that’s the problem. If I spoke to you about England, I’d say the same thing. On the British Isles football is going through a Darwin-style evolution; a slow one. I don’t think football over there has changed much despite the influx of so many foreign players to the Premier League. The league has involved, but the England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland and Northern Ireland teams have not. I read that Ireland was going to adopt catenaccio because Giovanni Trapattoni is their manager; what a load of nonsense! Ireland’s players don’t know how to play that way.”

His interviewer then suggests that under Trapattoni Ireland in fact play “super catenaccio” prompting further derision. “That’s wrong. Doyle, their number nine, tries to play off the back of the full back. He’s been doing this all his career . . . It’s the same with Keane, he couldn’t adapt to playing at Liverpool. Ireland could be playing against Spain, Iceland or Mars, it’s the same, they wouldn’t have much of the ball. People associate them with catenaccio because they don’t know how to use the ball, but it’s not catenaccio.”

He is, meanwhile, indifferent to the effect Trapattoni has had on the team, suggesting the veteran coach neither brings anything new to, nor gets anything extra out of, his players. “I don’t think he’s been particularly good or particularly bad,” he says. “Has he taken something from Ireland? No. Has he brought anything new to Ireland? No. You’re a man who likes to watch good football, do Ireland play good football? Ireland do what they can, I respect that. I think that football in Ireland is respectable because it’s honest.

“But football on the British Isles is a bit old-fashioned . . .They try and give their best, but it’s possible trying their best isn’t enough to call it good football. It’s because they don’t wish to play good football, it’s because they don’t have the technical ability to do anything else.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0614/1224317877192.html

[brine3]

The Dutch TV constantly refers to us as British.

[bennocelt]

well if we stopped capping the odd brit it might make a difference!

[Charlie Darwin]

“I’m supporting Spain,” he continued. “I hope Ireland go out of the tournament unscathed, that they play like gladiators. I hope Ireland finish the game with dignity, with the glory of competing with this great Spain side.

“But I’ve lived in Spain longer than I’ve lived in England.
Not the smartest tool in the drawer, is he?

[OwlsFan]

"Seen as hacks? We are hacks. That's all we do - hack the ball clear from defence, and when we do get it for a second in midfield, we hack it away to safety if pressured. We have about 2 per cent of the technical ability required to win the tournament and if you saw the defence on Monday last (away to Hungary) you would have been embarrassed in the extreme. I could have picked four friends to put up a better defensive performance.


We didn't hack it away in the 2nd minute of the game. Nice triangle amond the back 4 and, oh yeah, the ball was given away in our own half and Croatia scored. There's a lot to be said for hacking when you have players when they try to pass give it to the opposition.

[OwlsFan]

“Muhammad Ali fighting a dwarf”,

He hasn't heard the legend of Fionn MacCumhail then?

[Murfinator]

I've seen a few power rankings rate us as the weakest team in the competition, the EPL followers who've never seen Ireland play before seem to think we're little better than a championship based on the individuals and the clubs they play for (this unfortunately include a large section of the Irish supporters), the others don't know a lot of our players bar Robbie Keane.

Nobody stood out for us the last day and while there was some who gave us a shot against Croatia believe we're now a fodder team. We'll need to do something tonight or we'll have exited without even making a ripple.

[sullanefc]

Seems somebody doesn't have much time for his former country

The panel on RTE commented on Michael Robinson, and put him firmly back in his box.