How the rest of the world see us....

[osarusan]

"Best fans at the tournament and a role model for all fans of the international game and probably all levels of the game", yes.

It would be ironic if the behaviour of ROI fans was portrayed as the ideal model for fans at all levels of the game given the attendances at LOI level.

Regardless of any award for the genuinely admirable way the ROI fans conducted themselves in Poland, as I've mentioned before, I wonder what fans from other countries imagine our domestic league games to look like. Do they envisage something similar to ROI's euro games but (obviously) on a smaller scale?

Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?

[Stuttgart88]

I was referring to the behaviour of the RoI being the ideal model of beahviour for fans of the game at any level. I think you noted yourself what I was tryiong to say.

I dunno about the perceptionod RoI fans changing among the Poles or wherever. I think if people knew the full picture about football in Ireland they'd appreciate that it's such a strange thing it's probably understandable that low numbers support the game in Ireland. More than anyone we're in the shadow of the biggest, most bloated, most financially obscene soap opera version of the game in the world, we share an island with a huge powerful sports organisation that has historically been hand-in-hand with a most insular idealist nationalist political party that only ever looked down its nose at our game in Ireland, an organisation that labelled you unpatriotic by supporting football with its "foreign game" tag and the ban, and so on.

I fully accept that there's a challenge for someone to somehow tap into the temporary fan element of the RoI support to become a more frequent fan, and so on, but how to do it is another debate.

Just as a complete total and utter aside: are there many Poles left in Ireland? Would a Dublin Polish football club (like London Irish RFC used to be) have any merit?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Anyway, back in the real world far beyond RMK and certain detached (& possibly deluded?) zealots dictating who the 'real' fans are...


http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/2012/0630/327235-ireland-fans-to-receive-uefa-award/

[geysir]

It would be ironic if the behaviour of ROI fans was portrayed as the ideal model for fans at all levels of the game given the attendances at LOI level.

Regardless of any award for the genuinely admirable way the ROI fans conducted themselves in Poland, as I've mentioned before, I wonder what fans from other countries imagine our domestic league games to look like. Do they envisage something similar to ROI's euro games but (obviously) on a smaller scale?

Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?

I assume perceptions of the Ireland fans in Poland were 100% based on perceptions of the Irish fans in Poland, regardless of where they live in the world or what they do when they are at home.
Am I mistaken, I thought you had no problem calling somebody a supporter of the Ireland team even if they did not attend LOI games?

[Stuttgart88]

Hopefully when in Dublin Platini will be shown a game in, e.g., Tallaght, and will have a meeting with JD and Leo Varadaker (sports minister?) to discuss how UEFA can help countries like Ireland compete in the current marketplace for football. Rather than just engaging in a PR stunt / backslapping exercise we can use something like this to catalayse some change - and embarrass government into doing something useful for our game.

Nice gesture to honour James Nolan with the award.

[Stuttgart88]

Here is Keith Andrews' view of the fans in Gdansk:

In the end, after waiting 10 years and after all the hard work in getting to Poland, probably the only real positive we could take out of the tournament was the amazing atmosphere created by the Irish fans. We’re 4-0 down against Spain and all you can hear for the last 10 minutes is The Fields Of Athenry. That will live with me forever.

I was so knackered by that stage of the game, after putting in a fair old shift running around after Spain’s 17 midfielders, but that sound just made me want to kick on to the end. It sent shivers down my spine.

I got dragged straight into a TV interview 30 seconds after I came off the pitch and I remember what I said: that we’d fallen well short and been beaten by a far superior side. But I also said that the fans were the highlight of the evening and would probably be remembered as one of the highlights of the tournament.

Roy Keane was critical of all that but I’m not going to get involved in a slanging match with him. He was a fantastic player for our country, one of the best midfielders to play the game and I respected him a hell of a lot as a player. He is also entitled to his opinion in his new job. But my thoughts about the fans are as clear now as they were when I spoke with my emotions running high right after the game.

And what they did that night has since been praised worldwide. Supporters aren’t stupid. They know football and they know that when their team has just been put to the sword by one of the greatest football teams the world has seen, that’s not the time to turn on the players and throw out all thoughts of unity and togetherness.

But I’m also sure that if, in the next qualifying campaign, we’re not up to the standards we’ve set in the last few years, then they’ll be quick to voice their anger too — and rightly so.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/the-man-in-the-mirror-199229.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

Exactly.

[DannyInvincible]

So, what's the title of this award then? "Best fans in the world", "best supporting role in an international tournament", "best song at an international match despite worst overall score"?...


LOI fans might be derisive of non-LOI fans in public forums, but anybody who shows up to a game is treated exactly the same way whether it's their first game or their 10,000th.

I think someone at their 10,000th game would get some pretty weird looks. Any 250-year-old would!


This is absolutely 100% not the case.

You think? I dunno. When crowds increase now and again with the promise of impending success, is there not a hint of derision towards who the regular supporters perceive to be "fair-weather fans"? I've certainly witnessed it on forums. I know that is often related to a later subsidence in support when times are tougher, but everyone has to start somewhere and everyone supports in different ways and measures.


"temporary" fans

Is that the polite term for event junkies? You're such a diplomat. :)

You make good points though. Would expect no less from the best poster on the international forum of late. I think it's a great shame that the general Irish public don't get behind our national league, never mind see that a stronger league is crucial to the development of a stronger and better-pedigreed international side in the long-term, but, as I've said before, people are entitled to spend their money wherever they want, be that on EPL/SPL clubs or on something else entirely unrelated to football. Ultimately, responsibility rests with the FAI and clubs to encourage people to take a greater interest in the league.

[osarusan]

Am I mistaken, I thought you had no problem calling somebody a supporter of the Ireland team even if they did not attend LOI games?
You're not mistaken, I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation. I think the whole division of 'real fans' and 'true supporters' is a pointless exercise whoever does it (though I note that posters are quicker to highlight the silliness of these terms when LOI fans use them than when, for example, Tricky Colour made his retarded claim that anybody not singing at the end of the Spain game was not a true fan).


So, what's the title of this award then? "Best fans in the world", "best supporting role in an international tournament", "best song at an international match despite worst overall score"?...


As a complete guess, I'd imagine the wording would avoid terms like 'best' and go something like 'rewarding ROI fans for their behaviour and fantastic displays of support during the Euros'.



You think? I dunno. When crowds increase now and again with the promise of impending success, is there not a hint of derision towards who the regular supporters perceive to be "fair-weather fans"? I've certainly witnessed it on forums.
With the possible exception of Salthill, nobody at LOI games knows everybody else at the games. We don't look for new faces and ask them if they're 'newbies' so we can abuse them for being fair-weather fans. This season Limerick got an attendance of over 1,000 only once - home to Longford, and we were delighted to get it. Look at our forum after that game. Nobody complaining about fair-weather fans, just disappointed we played so badly that we knew a lot of them wouldn't come back.

Anybody who would decide based on the 'hostile' posts of the fans on an online forum that they didn't want to go to an LOI game is being incredibly over-sensitive.

[tricky_colour]

Stories coming out today that Platini will deliver an award to the FAI for the behaviour of the Irish fans
Usual comments from LOI fans, which help nobody including themselves, have already begun

Something to put in the trophy room at last!!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

We have a 'trophy room' ??

:confused:

[brine3]

"Let's not just go along for the sing-song" Still don't see what's so controversial about what Roy said. But I think the media loves to create controversy with whatever Roy Keane says. Open up the old wounds, get all the Saipan bull**** flowing again. Yes, shame on Roy, being annoyed when Ireland gets thumped 4-0.

What's the title of the award? Will the trophy be paid for by Polish brewers as a thank you? Greatest Alcohol Intake at Euro2012 award?

[bennocelt]

Just to set the record straight: I have only disdain for people who ridicule the standard of the LOI - either enjoy it or shut up about it I say - but I have no major gripe with people who don't think it's worth paying to see.

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt that the same thing?

[bennocelt]

but, as I've said before, people are entitled to spend their money wherever they want, be that on EPL/SPL clubs or on something else entirely unrelated to football. Ultimately, responsibility rests with the FAI and clubs to encourage people to take a greater interest in the league.

True enough, but you would imagine that the best fans in the world would just go along and watch their local teams. i mean how do they need to be encouraged as its live football. Maybe pom pom dancers at half time?

Anyway always interesting to see what others make of it all - overall positive comments which is good
http://www.rt.com/sport/football/irish-fans-euro-2012-118/

[geysir]

You're not mistaken, I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation. I think the whole division of 'real fans' and 'true supporters' is a pointless exercise whoever does it (though I note that posters are quicker to highlight the silliness of these terms when LOI fans use them than when, for example, Tricky Colour made his retarded claim that anybody not singing at the end of the Spain game was not a true fan).
That may be, but the context of what you wrote was in reply to Stutts.
You asked
"Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?"
You have answered that question yourself "I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation."
It's not complicated why the fans were nominated for recognition. The award was for behaviour at the tournament, it starts and finishes at the tournament. Do you seriously think it matters to perceptions as to what particular way they do support football in their homeland? that e.g. it matters if they just play football with some club and not support a semi/pro league team?

Also, assumptions are made by some about other international team supporters, that they are great supporters of their home league. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. I don't know if all those Swedes and Danes who attended the tournament are also great fans of their home league. They may be involved at some of the many levels of the sport just like some Ireland fans. Some may come for the carnival, like some Ireland fans. There are a myriad of reasons why the LOI is one of the most poorly attended leagues in Europe and in stark comparison to the steady rise in what were once comparable leagues in Denmark/Norway.

[Stuttgart88]

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt that the same thing?

People who don't think it's worth paying to see so don't go - I have no gripe with them, it's their choice. That includes most people I know.

People who just ridicule it annoy me. More often than not they give no consideration to the uphill battle that staging a professional league in Ireland involves, or offer nothing constructive. That includes some people I know, and some journalists.

[osarusan]

That may be, but the context of what you wrote was in reply to Stutts.
You asked
"Would their perception of the ROI fans change if they knew that a serious majority of those in Poland don't go to LOI games?"
You have answered that question yourself "I have no problem describing anybody as a supporter in that situation."

My post that you've quoted was in response to you asking me if I considered people who don't attend LOI games to be supporters of the national team. I said that I do. It doesn't answer the question I asked regarding the perception of fans of other countries may have of ROI fans.


It's not complicated why the fans were nominated for recognition. The award was for behaviour at the tournament, it starts and finishes at the tournament. Do you seriously think it matters to perceptions as to what particular way they do support football in their homeland? that e.g. it matters if they just play football with some club and not support a semi/pro league team?

You missed the part of my post where I said 'regardless of any award'? I'm not talking about the award, I'm talking about the perception of our fans in the eyes of others, for whom most likely this is their only exposure to Irish football supporters, and the extent to which they might assume that the same passionate support filters down to lower levels of football, specifically the LOI. Would a look at the attendance numbers for domestic matches matter to them? I don't know, so I asked the question. My own guess is their admiration for the ROI fans might be tempered somewhat, but of course others might have a different opinion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Except that fans of Ireland's national team can't be compared with those of the LOI like with other countries, by foreign fans, as they represent two very different levels of the game...


Also more tenuous material on the Irish team here?

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/35-euro-2012/685587-ireland-were-not-crap-revisionism

Featuring at least one poster from this MB.

[DannyInvincible]

True enough, but you would imagine that the best fans in the world would just go along and watch their local teams. i mean how do they need to be encouraged as its live football. Maybe pom pom dancers at half time?

Fair point, but only the naive are saying that Irish football fans are the best in the world. I think. At least, I'm confident most people here know better. What's the consensus around the web? Are Irish people basking in such misplaced praise?

Should there be an expectation or responsibility upon the Irish public and Irish sports fans to invest time and money in the League of Ireland? Perhaps there should be if Irish football fans are to live up to the delusion that they are in fact the best fans in the world, but, otherwise, I don't think we can necessarily expect people to follow the league out of some form of national duty. People live different lives and do things in different ways; whilst there may be more beneficial ways, there is no one correct way to support football in a certain country, nor is there a single supporting orthodoxy within that support.

[DannyInvincible]

With the possible exception of Salthill...

Hehe. :D


Anybody who would decide based on the 'hostile' posts of the fans on an online forum that they didn't want to go to an LOI game is being incredibly over-sensitive.

That might well be the case, but the mildly antipathetic mindset exists amongst supporters of the league regardless. Perhaps it's not as widespread as I believe it to be and possibly it's rooted in the frustration you mention, but I also think it's an easy and self-satisfying method by which certain supporters can create a psychological hierarchy of supporters in order to position their supposed superiority and greater worth to their club at the top of that hierarchy.

Also consider when clubs get big turn-outs at finals; supporters of other uninvolved clubs will often mock and patronise the "fair-weather" support of the involved clubs. Are they saying the big turn-out is a bad thing? The ridicule need not just come from those who support the clubs affected; we're looking at this from the perspective of trying to attract more of the Irish public towards supporting the league in general.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Danny,
The same point about 'fair weather' fans applies the world over. And not just in soccer...

[Stuttgart88]

only the naive are saying that Irish football fans are the best in the world. Only the naive or those who have the hump that RoI fans got such great accolades at the Euros I think.

The RoI was the best supported team at the Euros. That's all the award is, no more and no less and my strong guess is that most people haven't given a second thought about how domestic football is supported.

Osarusan, if the RoI fans gave anyone the idea that Irish fans are passionate about their local clubs and support them in large numbers it'd be the wrong perception. The more knowledgable people will know that we're a small country that can barely support a professional league so will know that the LoI doesn't attract big numbers. But I reckon all anyone thought was that the RoI fans were great during their short visit to Poland and didn't spare a moment to wonder about any other tier of our game.

I also think most people know that international support and domestic support are very different. I think Dutch fans are well behaved and very colourful at major tournaments but I also know that down the years domestic support has been very factional and very often violent, the antithesis of their national team's support.

Also, just to clarify. I have absolutely nothing against the LoI - I supported it for years as many of you know. My beef is with people who think there is only one way or a superior way of expressing one's interest in football. Anyone expressing that view here is almost always a LOI fan. Personally, I thionk football is a broad church and I have my favourite parts of it. My least favourite part of it is the bloated obscene version of the game that the EPL has become, the footballing equivalent of a neo-con conspiracy to make the rich richer and letting the poor borrow too much if they want to stay in touch. The EPL is a metaphor for the light-touch, neo-liberal trickledown economic philisophy that ultiamtely caused havoc in the US and UK.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think this is where the distinction between a fan and a supporter comes in handy - fandom is passive, watching your tv and hoping whatever team wins; supporting is active, going out and putting your time and money where your mouth is to actually improve the lot of your team. Going to LOI games and cheering the team on has a small but tangible effect on Irish football - buying a Sky Sports subscription unfortunately doesn't. Even going to support clubs with a "proud" Irish tradition like Liverpool or Man United doesn't support Irish football as much as it supports Ryanair and the pubs of north-west England.

I'd say the EPL is less a neoliberal model than Spain or Italy. Compared to those leagues it's a model of wealth distribution.

[Stuttgart88]

Actually I hate the Spanish model too, it's just that the EPL is closer to home I suppose. Spain's debts - including huge amounts to the Revenue - individual TV rights, municipal bail-outs etc. are obscene and I'm told that UEFA is more concerned about Spain's model than England's.

To refer to any part of Italian football as a "model" would be paying it a compliment!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Stutts has nailed it yet again with #272. Good stuff.

[Charlie Darwin]

Letter in today's Times. Did anyone here write it?


Sir, – According to figures in The Irish Times on Saturday, the overall attendance at five Airtricity League of Ireland games on Friday night last amounted to a meagre 7,754.The majority of the “wonderful” Irish supporters who caused so much merriment when celebrating the defeats at Euro 2012 obviously have not recovered from their exertions and long travelling to go out and support local soccer.But, no doubt, these dedicated fans will soon turn out in big numbers, as they did thousands of miles away, to boost crowds at League of Ireland matches. – Yours, etc,

[mypost]

I think this is where the distinction between a fan and a supporter comes in handy - fandom is passive, watching your tv and hoping whatever team wins; supporting is active, going out and putting your time and money where your mouth is to actually improve the lot of your team.

There's a lot more to supporting a team than putting money in it. Supporting a team, is part of your life and your identity, and it extends way beyond 90 minutes at the weekend, whether it be at the stadium or on a screen.

[Charlie Darwin]

I said time too, Mr. Post.

[tetsujin1979]

Letter in today's Times. Did anyone here write it?
Sir, – According to figures in The Irish Times on Saturday, the overall attendance at five Airtricity League of Ireland games on Friday night last amounted to a meagre 7,754.The majority of the “wonderful” Irish supporters who caused so much merriment when celebrating the defeats at Euro 2012 obviously have not recovered from their exertions and long travelling to go out and support local soccer.But, no doubt, these dedicated fans will soon turn out in big numbers, as they did thousands of miles away, to boost crowds at League of Ireland matches. – Yours, etc,
This is exactly what I was talking about elsewhere, how many people who went to Poland, or watched the games on TV, and thought about going to a League of Ireland game saw that and thought "well if that's going to be the opinion of LoI fans, I'm not going to bother".

Posting on a message board is one thing, a letter in a national newspaper is a whole other level

[bennocelt]

This is exactly what I was talking about elsewhere, how many people who went to Poland, or watched the games on TV, and thought about going to a League of Ireland game saw that and thought "well if that's going to be the opinion of LoI fans, I'm not going to bother".

Posting on a message board is one thing, a letter in a national newspaper is a whole other level

To be fair that would be a petty excuse

[tetsujin1979]

To be fair that would be a petty excusepetty or not, the last thing any League of Ireland fan should be doing is giving people a reason not to go.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well said.

[Charlie Darwin]

petty or not, the last thing any League of Ireland fan should be doing is giving people a reason not to go.
I think you're placing too much responsibility on the average LOI fan there. The letters page of a newspaper is a place to point out hypocrisy and double standards, and while it may not warm people's cockles to hear it, there is a certain hypocrisy to fans and the FAI basking in the adulation of UEFA while the domestic league is struggling as badly as ever, mainly due to lack of interest.

[Eminence Grise]

It would have been a far better letter if, instead of having a pop at the fans in Poland, the writer had invited them to attend an LoI game this weekend, and suggested that they might find a way to keep the good cheer going just a little longer. The writer struck me as being far too snide and not a little bitter. This is the letter, by the way:

Sir, – According to figures in The Irish Times on Saturday, the overall attendance at five Airtricity League of Ireland games on Friday night last amounted to a meagre 7,754.
The majority of the “wonderful” Irish supporters who caused so much merriment when celebrating the defeats at Euro 2012 obviously have not recovered from their exertions and long travelling to go out and support local soccer.
But, no doubt, these dedicated fans will soon turn out in big numbers, as they did thousands of miles away, to boost crowds at League of Ireland matches. – Yours, etc, (http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224319264653)

[osarusan]

the last thing any League of Ireland fan should be doing is giving people a reason not to go.

Somebody who would use that letter as a reason not to go to a game would have a whole host of other reasons not to go even if that letter hadn't been written, ranging from the distance they are from the nearest LOI club, or the cost of a ticket, to their having other plans on a Friday night.

Is the letter snide and bsically pointless? Yes, definitely. But I honestly don't believe that people with a genuine interest in going along to a LOI game for the first time would be put off by it.

[Eminence Grise]

Somebody who would use that letter as a reason not to go to a game would have a whole host of other reasons not to go even if that letter hadn't been written, ranging from the distance they are from the nearest LOI club, or the cost of a ticket, to their having other plans on a Friday night.

Is the letter snide and bsically pointless? Yes, definitely. But I honestly don't believe that people with a genuine interest in going along to a LOI game for the first time would be put off by it.

All too true - excuses are legion for those with no interest. But the league needs a constant stream of good publicity if it is ever to change people's perceptions, and pandering to the stereotype of the bitter, parochial LoI fan is not the best way to achieve it. It might seem inconsequential compared to clubs disappearing annually, or TV3-hyped small-fry hooligans, but over time lots of seemingly insignificant messages can contribute to building a better reputation for the league. At the moment, it's more 'great aches from little toecorns grow' than the proverb proper.

[tetsujin1979]

Somebody who would use that letter as a reason not to go to a game would have a whole host of other reasons not to go even if that letter hadn't been written, ranging from the distance they are from the nearest LOI club, or the cost of a ticket, to their having other plans on a Friday night.

Is the letter snide and bsically pointless? Yes, definitely. But I honestly don't believe that people with a genuine interest in going along to a LOI game for the first time would be put off by it.
True, one letter isn't going to be the reason someone doesn't go to a game, but it could very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I changed jobs last year, after nine years in my previous position. Had a whole host of issues with the job, but it wasn't any one of them that made me leave, it was all of them together.

Like I said above, the last thing any League of Ireland fan should be doing is giving people another reason not to go to games. On top of that, is that letter really the public face the League of Ireland fans want to put out?

[Stuttgart88]

I think letters are published to stir debate or to offer another perspective, rather than to be seen to be representative of all opinion. I don't think one guy toeing the same "local football is more worthy than international football" line expressed by some here is going to have any effect.

The FAI should post a questionnaire to everyone attending the Germany home game in October (presumably a big crowd) detailing a list of questions about the LOI and what ROI fans' attitudes are towards it, and what would make them attend LOI more regularly. Offer a range of half-decent prizes to encourage people to participate and preface the questionnaire with a statement like "strengthening support for the domestic game is an important ingredient in ultimately sercuring international success. Every response received will be invaluable". Each ROI ticket sold could come with a free voucher for one or more LOI games - the FAI to rebate each club for every voucher redeemed (OK, there may be issues about ROI and LOI regulars but not insurmountable).

Given that we're on the topic of The Irish Times, I think they are a culprit in the context of Eminence Grice's point about publicity. For years they allowed Tom Humphries run ripshod over the League and even the national team, and have bowed at the altar of England's league. What chance does any kid who reads the sports pages (as I used to) have of forming any opinion other than "English football is everything even to an Irishman, our own league is just a peripheral detail"?

[Eminence Grise]

Given that we're on the topic of The Irish Times, I think they are a culprit in the context of Eminence Grice's point about publicity. For years they allowed Tom Humphries run ripshod over the League and even the national team, and have bowed at the altar of England's league. What chance does any kid who reads the sports pages (as I used to) have of forming any opinion other than "English football is everything even to an Irishman, our own league is just a peripheral detail"?

That’s a good point. Although I do think that some of their LoI coverage from their staffers (not their columnists/colour writers) is quite good. But it's buried beneath a pile of British football and rugby articles. Maybe equally problematic, though, is that the IT readership is less starry-eyed lads dreaming of being the next Irish legend, and more ABs (JICNARS scale) who influence sponsorship, advertising and marketing budgets in their businesses. They, as much as paying fans, are the people who need to see positive message about the league.

[ifk101]

If people don't want to attend matches, that's their business. But there's a number of current senior internationals that have a LOI background, and there is likely to be a number of future senior internationals currently plying their trade in the LOI. If you are an Irish fan isn't that reason enough to attend games? If you are a football fan do you really need a reason to attend games?

[mypost]

The FAI should post a questionnaire to everyone attending the Germany home game in October (presumably a big crowd) detailing a list of questions about the LOI and what ROI fans' attitudes are towards it, and what would make them attend LOI more regularly. Offer a range of half-decent prizes to encourage people to participate and preface the questionnaire with a statement like "strengthening support for the domestic game is an important ingredient in ultimately sercuring international success. Every response received will be invaluable". Each ROI ticket sold could come with a free voucher for one or more LOI games - the FAI to rebate each club for every voucher redeemed (OK, there may be issues about ROI and LOI regulars but not insurmountable).

What would be the prize be? 2 tickets to UCD v Shels in November?

Those not interested in the LOI, see it the same way as LOI fans see the LSL. If someone offered me a questionnaire during a Rovers - bohs game in Tallaght, asking what I think could improve the LSL, I would find the nearest bin to put it in, after I stopped laughing.

The LOI has to sell itself to new customers, but the LOI still operates on the same lines it always did. "Me fein".

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, you're right. There's no point tapping into the temporary surge in interest in Irish football to even try and get a marketeer's perspective on what a huge block of Irish football stakeholders think of the LOI and what could attract some of them to it.

Just as there's no point in using the disappointing performances in Poland to take stock and ask where we can improve anything.

You didn't work on the board at Kodak at any point did you?

[BonnieShels]

You didn't work on the board at Kodak at any point did you?

Very well played sir.

[Stuttgart88]

I think you're placing too much responsibility on the average LOI fan there. The letters page of a newspaper is a place to point out hypocrisy and double standards, and while it may not warm people's cockles to hear it, there is a certain hypocrisy to fans and the FAI basking in the adulation of UEFA while the domestic league is struggling as badly as ever, mainly due to lack of interest.I see someone takes a different view, one I happen to share as it happens, in today's letter's page. Perhaps a letters page is also a place to point out flawed thinking?

Sir, – While I share Noel Coogan’s frustration that the League of Ireland is not better supported, it should be recognised that Irish football is a broad church, the league being just one member. Huge numbers participate in football in Ireland at many levels and in many ways. All are valid stakeholders in our game, as are the many ex-pats who travelled to Poland, and are entitled to support our national team without attracting criticism.

In December 2011, The Irish Times cited a survey showing football to be the country’s most popular sport. But unlike rugby, where the Irish can watch Europe’s best players and teams on their doorsteps, the structure and economics of European football dictate against anything like this being possible and conspire against the League of Ireland being more popular. As far as the higher levels of the professional game are involved, the Irish are usually on the outside of the party looking in, so on those rare occasions when we get an invitation, we gladly accept. Unfortunately we left this one early. – Yours, etc,

[mypost]

Yeah, you're right. There's no point tapping into the temporary surge in interest in Irish football to even try and get a marketeer's perspective on what a huge block of Irish football stakeholders think of the LOI and what could attract some of them to it.

What temporary surge? There is none, not in domestic football anyway.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Is the letter snide and bsically pointless? Yes, definitely. But I honestly don't believe that people with a genuine interest in going along to a LOI game for the first time would be put off by it.

Not someone with a genuine interest, but I know from firsthand experience that the kind of tone that letter has - snide, condescending, holier-than-thou - doesn't help with a lot of people. I know several people, who just support English clubs, who dismiss the LoI as a league with a very cliquey atmosphere, due to their own (mostly online) interactions with people who only support an Irish club. No one wants to be lectured, looked down on or made to feel that their way of choosing/supporting a team is "wrong". It encourages nobody. I don’t want to be classed in the same group as the very bitter person who wrote that missive.

I'm guessing there is probably a large amount of people who support a team here and in England. I'm not sure what kind of promotion/marketing you could do to try and attract more support for the LoI of that variety. "Support your local team!" is all fine to say, but I think a message that emphasises the existence of a middle road between exclusively following one side of the Irish Sea or the other would be beneficial.

[DannyInvincible]

What temporary surge?

This one, presumably.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523378_3649672395040_1155777271_n.jpg

[ArdeeBhoy]

Very good post by NFB.

Personally ambivalent towards the LOI though have numerous pals who're 'exclusive' or 'joint' fans of current member clubs. I don't think any of them were expecting a surge of interest based on the Euros;personally I'm unsure why a national team should have any profound effect on its domestic league.
Especially when they played as poorly as we did.

Anyway, this thread was about how others, outside Ireland, saw us. Mainly during the Euros, not our own sometimes tedious introspection...

And despite the usual predictable begrudger on here, the external feedback has been shown to be about 95% positive?
Which is surely no bad thing.

[tetsujin1979]

have we all seen the thank you ad from Poznan on Stephen's Green - http://www.balls.ie/2012/07/05/have-you-seen-the-ad-from-poznan-on-st-stephens-green/

[DannyInvincible]

Very good post by NFB.

Personally ambivalent towards the LOI though have numerous pals who're 'exclusive' or 'joint' fans of current member clubs. I don't think any of them were expecting a surge of interest based on the Euros;personally I'm unsure why a national team should have any profound effect on its domestic league.
Especially when they played as poorly as we did.

Anyway, this thread was about how others, outside Ireland, saw us. Mainly during the Euros, not our own sometimes tedious introspection...

And despite the usual predictable begrudger on here, the external feedback has been shown to be about 95% positive?
Which is surely no bad thing.

I think it's fair to say our qualification for the Euros caused a huge surge in interest in our international team not seen since 2002. What I would like to see is the FAI, through promotional work, somehow exploiting this whilst still in the public spotlight by linking increasing interest in the League of Ireland to the league's future development and, in turn, a potentially stronger and more secure international side in the long term.