Republic of Ireland V Bosnia and Herzegovina - Saturday, 26th May 2012 - Friendly

[backstothewall]

Also I think McGeady's always been a good crosser - sometimes he's more in range than others. :)

I agree, but his crossing always looks better when he plays on the right, where Trap has consistently played him for a while now, through necessity or design. When he is on the left he is either playing crosses in on his left foot, on having to cut back inside which will inevitably lead to a more difficult ball for the striker.

When he is on the left it is much better to encourage him to cut inside the full back and run at the centre half, but we don't really play that kind of football, and I doubt Trap would be happy with him leaving himself out of position if the opposition counter attacked. In my opinion the right wing is a better fit for him in our system.

[Fixer82]

I agree, but his crossing always looks better when he plays on the right, where Trap has consistently played him for a while now, through necessity or design. When he is on the left he is either playing crosses in on his left foot, on having to cut back inside which will inevitably lead to a more difficult ball for the striker.


His cross for the goal V Bosnia was on his left foot

[paul_oshea]

Good post POS, though naturally I'm going to take you on over this one...;)

Decidedly average seems a bit harsh, would you not say McClean was Ireland's most effective attacker in the first half? A half when Bosnia were at their most potent, and probably, their most true-to-form (as mentioned they seemed well disinterested in the second)?

Also I think McGeady's always been a good crosser - sometimes he's more in range than others. :)



Perhaps decidely average was a little harsh alright. I think Mcclean was more direct and more forward thinking, than Duff was, but i thought duff did very well and linked up better with keane than say mcclean did with either keane or doyle, and a winger, in our system at least is meant to link up with the 2 strikers and get balls into them. I was probably viewing differently to how you guys viewed him, forgetting that he played in the LOI side last year in the dublin super cup and his meteoric rise in the PL, I was expecting after all the hype the kind of impact mcgeady or duff would bring to a game, at times I thought i was watching a younger, stronger kilbane. He is very direct and strong, but without his speed to beat full backs I'm not sure what he offers - yet. His touch though and his left foot do add a dimension to his game that others don't have.

Maybe the reason mcgeadys crossing was so bad in the past and why he still misses some is he tries to perfect each cross as one of those hanging crosses that stay in the air at the same height for so long, that when he doesnt do it right, it goes way off. Its a great cross for a striker, as long has pointed out in his interview on rte this morning, and a very difficult one for a defender do defend against. The great thing about him on Saturday was I could count on one hand(only :)) the amount of times he didnt get it over the first defender.

[jbyrne]

He is very direct and strong, but without his speed to beat full backs I'm not sure what he offers - yet. His touch though and his left foot do add a dimension to his game that others don't have.



so in summary McClean is direct, strong, quick, has a good touch and he offers something different with his left foot?
thats good enough for me.

you can add to that list that he is good in the air, tracks back excellently and puts over a good corner

[paul_oshea]

Yes, from what i saw just like kevin kilbane 8 or so years ago :D

And just like Kilbane was direct, he had lots of pace also when he started out. But when that pace went so did any ability he ever had. Hopefully Mcclean isnt as one dimensional and as dependent on his speed as kilbane was.

Direct in football, is sometimes a replacement for, limited ability.

[Charlie Darwin]

Decidedly average seems a bit harsh, would you not say McClean was Ireland's most effective attacker in the first half? A half when Bosnia were at their most potent, and probably, their most true-to-form (as mentioned they seemed well disinterested in the second)?

It's all relative after all, but McClean was far more effective than Duff imo and was at the heart of most of our attacking moves in the first half.
I'd say it was Duff, Keane, McClean in that order. McClean did some good stuff but I think the game affirmed that Duff and McGeady are our preferred combination by some distance. The one area McClean has a real advantage over either is in the air, allowing more balls to stick on the flanks, but that's arguably a negative too as it encourages our long ball-happy defenders to play more long balls.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd say it was Duff, Keane, McClean in that order. McClean did some good stuff but I think the game affirmed that Duff and McGeady are our preferred combination by some distance. The one area McClean has a real advantage over either is in the air, allowing more balls to stick on the flanks, but that's arguably a negative too as it encourages our long ball-happy defenders to play more long balls.

In the first half I disagree. Keane did well to get on some long balls (and linked quite well with others) but I thought Duff wasn't great in the first 20-30 minutes - he gave the ball away handy a couple of times and didn't really trouble the Bosnians too much, not until he linked up with Doyle for that chance and also cut inside neatly and shot wide. But it took him a while to get going.

Duff improved as the half goes on and - of course - is a class act. But...

McClean created a bit of havoc every time he got in the first 45, whether forcing Begovic into his only save of the half, teeing up Gibson, or slinging crosses into the box after beating his man. If we're going to compare, I thought McClean was the round's clear winner.

When we were under pressure, sans possession, in the first 20-25 mins, McClean was by a distance our most effective out-ball (mostly with balls to feet as well).

Still think Duff/McGeady are the starters btw.

[backstothewall]

His cross for the goal V Bosnia was on his left foot

It wasn't the only one he played.

He is also much harder to mark when you know he can go round the outside of you as well as come infield. You can't just show him down the touchline

[geysir]

His cross for the goal V Bosnia was on his left foot
And his dink from the left side onto the head of somebody was also on left foot.
Anybody ever observe the crossing stats for Robbin?

Even at his poorest for us, he's still been our best option (along with Duff of course) at wide midfield, throughout this campaign.

[Irish_Praha]

Like I said in another thread, Duff is probably going to retire in the near future so it's great to have a replacement coming through at the exact right time where he can still learn something from him before he's gone.
He is in no way a like-for-like replacement but it good that we have another left-footed player who is capable of playing on the wing. This is commonly a problem position for other international teams and we currenly have 4 decent options for that position although I would prefer McGeady playing on the right and hope that McClean will become a better option that Hunt, if that's not already the case. I'm sure he has some faults in his game and this will become more apparent after he has played about 10 international games and another full season of club football. Who knows he might even develop into a decent left back for us. No player is perfect; Roy Keane for example never scored enough goals from overhead kicks :p

[Charlie Darwin]

In the first half I disagree. Keane did well to get on some long balls (and linked quite well with others) but I thought Duff wasn't great in the first 20-30 minutes - he gave the ball away handy a couple of times and didn't really trouble the Bosnians too much, not until he linked up with Doyle for that chance and also cut inside neatly and shot wide. But it took him a while to get going.

Duff improved as the half goes on and - of course - is a class act. But...

McClean created a bit of havoc every time he got in the first 45, whether forcing Begovic into his only save of the half, teeing up Gibson, or slinging crosses into the box after beating his man. If we're going to compare, I thought McClean was the round's clear winner.

When we were under pressure, sans possession, in the first 20-25 mins, McClean was by a distance our most effective out-ball (mostly with balls to feet as well).

Still think Duff/McGeady are the starters btw.
I think you're wearing candystripe-tinted spectacles :)

I'd measure effectiveness in attack in terms of chances created, and it was Duff and Keane's link-up that really troubled the Bosnians in the first half.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think you're wearing candystripe-tinted spectacles :)

Knew I'd get accused of that. Pretty lazy given the lengths I went to explain myself.

My only concession to bias will be I was sitting on the McClean's wing on the first half so had a pretty good view of what he was at. :)


I'd measure effectiveness in attack in terms of chances created, and it was Duff and Keane's link-up that really troubled the Bosnians in the first half.

McClean created a couple of chances, forced Begovic into a save and did it for 45 - effective no?

Moreover he didn't give the ball away handy like Duff did a couple of times. Consistent.

[jbyrne]

was sitting in the east stand upper just above where mcclean was operating in the first half. was very impressed with his eagerness to get on the ball, take on players (outside and inside) and beat them, his tracking back and his distribution.

he wont start against croatia but having him to spring from the bench is a great addition to our squad

[Charlie Darwin]

Knew I'd get accused of that. Pretty lazy given the lengths I went to explain myself.

My only concession to bias will be I was sitting on the McClean's wing on the first half so had a pretty good view of what he was at. :)



McClean created a couple of chances, forced Begovic into a save and did it for 45 - effective no?

Moreover he didn't give the ball away handy like Duff did a couple of times. Consistent.
Fair enough. I'm not saying he was ineffective, just that Duff was more so, and he brought the strikers in the play with his link-up work and intelligent runs. In any case, it's great to see 3 of our 4 wingers in fine form ahead of the Euros and Hunt obviously hurting to get on the pitch and show what he can do.

[geysir]

McClean's first start for us, he can only get better. We might look a team where a player like McClean can come in a hit the ground running but not so, it will take a few games for him to settle in.
I was impressed with his effort more than anything, right to the end of the game.

[Colbert Report]

McClean's first start for us, he can only get better.

Remember when we thought the same thing about McShane?

[Yard of Pace]

Remember when we thought the same thing about McShane?

Did we really though? McShane was SO good against Czech (except for Koller's goal) I don't think anyone could possibly think he could play even better. I don't think he'd done much at club level too at the time, unlike McShane, who has been lauded by just about every EPL observer for his displays.

[tetsujin1979]

Did we really though? McShane was SO good against Czech (except for Koller's goal) I don't think anyone could possibly think he could play even better. I don't think he'd done much at club level too at the time, unlike McShane, who has been lauded by just about every EPL observer for his displays.
McShane had won player of the year on loan at Brighton before making his senior debut, and was highly rated at United at the time. I read an article that said he was better than John O'Shea at the same age

[rebelmusic]

I might get shot for saying this but i think if McShane had been left to develop as a CB he'd be in the Richard Dunne mold at this stage. He was never a RB and it has murdered his career and reputation playing in that position

[back of the net]

Did we really though? McShane was SO good against Czech (except for Koller's goal) I don't think anyone could possibly think he could play even better. I don't think he'd done much at club level too at the time, unlike McShane, who has been lauded by just about every EPL observer for his displays.


Yeah we did , the hype around McShane at the time was very big. I remember alot of ppl thinking we had another Kevin Moran on our hands.
His performance against the Czechs was immense and for what its worth I dont entirely blame him for Kollers equalizer either, always felt O`shea should have taken his share of the blame for not tracking back into his position before the czech goal.

Add in Mcshanes alleged outburst in the dressing room at half time where he was meant to have given the team a dressing down for been happy to be 0-0 at half time and that they shud be beating them. Also remember him putting in an excellent shift against the slovaks in the 1-0 win in croke park the following year.


Interesting scout article on mcshane by the guardian paper published in 2007 below - read some of the comments and even more so take a look at the ratings the journalist gives him


http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2007/apr/17/newsstory.sport16

[Junior]

I might get shot for saying this but i think if McShane had been left to develop as a CB he'd be in the Richard Dunne mold at this stage. He was never a RB and it has murdered his career and reputation playing in that position

Funny, I was listening to RTE radio coverage of the match and Eoin Hand who was co-commentating said exactly the opposite. He said words to the effect....he never felt McShane was comfortable at CB, didnt read the game that well there but was better suited to RB, gives him the opportunity to maraud up the flanks.

I kid you not.

[Charlie Darwin]

McShane's best asset at right back is probably his ability on the ball and willingness to overlap and, despite his general lack of pace, he does cover the ground well. But his reading of the game and positioning at full back are not good enough. I think as a centre half, though, he reads the game well and does have a lot of Dunne's qualities, though not the same talent. I can actually see him playing a lot more games there in the coming years if he sorts himself out with a decent club.

[backstothewall]

The most important part of that Guardian article is the bit at the top that says "Steve Claridge". It is amazing that someone can play over 1000 league games and still know almost nothing about the game.

I'd lean more towards Eoin Hands view that he's more of a right back, but for a different reason. At 5ft 11 I just don't think he has the stature to play centre half. It's maybe an old fashioned view but that's the way I see it. I've said this on here and people have said that Cannavaro & Puyol are the same height, but McShane is no Cannavaro and his bread and butter is playing in the English league.

A move to the mainland could maybe suit him. Someone of his height playing centre back would be lot more practical in one of the Mediterranean leagues.

[SwanVsDalton]

He's not comfortable enough on the ball for right back imo. Fair play for having the willingness to take it on but his touch is poor, passing is suspect and he can't cross.

Those limitations are not necessarily a problem in Trap's team since FB's are primarily for defence, but prefer him at CB personally where his bravery and energy can be effective, and someone like Dunne can guide him through.

[paul_oshea]

Ok then Defence, he is like a Gaelic player going out on a soccer pitch, headless chicken, he uses his arms too much - something I see a lot from gaelic players who then try to play football - like coleman and pushes people out of the way and just general awkwardness, no nimble feet either. I fear the inevitability of giving away a penalty very soon. Lets just hope its not in the Euros.

His greatest attribute(s) is his determination, commitment and drive, unfortunately that is not enough at this level.

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah we did , the hype around McShane at the time was very big. I remember alot of ppl thinking we had another Kevin Moran on our hands.
His performance against the Czechs was immense and for what its worth I dont entirely blame him for Kollers equalizer either, always felt O`shea should have taken his share of the blame for not tracking back into his position before the czech goal.
I was one of the Kevin Moran comparers. I think he was hardly culpable at all for Koller's goal. O'Shea was asleep and Henderson should have got a hand to it.

He puts the fear of God into me now. I can see him doing a job in a backs-to-the-wall no-nonsense effort, but give him time to think and he makes rash decisions. I thought he did fine against Bosnia though, as he did against Italy in Liege last year. Half of this forum nearly got a boner over Coleman's performance that day but he didn't do all that much for me. He did well enough but no more. I think some players have to do more to impress than others.

[DannyInvincible]

Time-lapse video from the Bosnia & Herzegovina game:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atmYNj-vjsA&feature=share

[DeLorean]

Bumping thread.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJiq-Ee_9Gg

[DeLorean]

Closed thread.