Euro 2020 Joint Bid [Archive]

fionnsci

15/05/2012, 10:50 AM

shakermaker1982

15/05/2012, 11:04 AM

Well Euro's will be 24 countries from 2016 so still 21 places up for grabs if they did have 3 host countries.

Big stadium in the West would be nice!

jbyrne

15/05/2012, 11:08 AM

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2012/0515/320958-ireland-may-become-part-of-three-way-bid/

There you have it. Not sure if there's a discussion on this already, if so feel free to bin this. Several problems with this, not least - would UEFA give automatic qualification to three countries? Also, many of the most up to date grounds in the country, including Thomond Park, wouldn't meet the criteria. Do we have the infrastructure, hotel beds etc... Not impossible but improbable.

hotels wise possible.

We would only have to bring 2 or 3 stadiums to the bid maybe. Lansdowne and new cork / limerick / galway stadiums could be options. No country ever has all the stadiums in place when they bid so surely we could deliver two new stadiums with 30 - 35,000 capacity? I think the rugby are thinking about a RWC bid so maybe both bids could justify two new / revamped stadiums.

read an interesting article the other day about how UEFA will struggle to get countries to bid for the Euros now its up the 24 teams. Even the Germans thought better of a 2020 bid. May have to have a re-think and revert to 16 teams.

fionnsci

15/05/2012, 11:13 AM

I wonder if the Qatari world cup big (6 grounds in their capital afaik) would signal a willingness by the powers that be to reconsider the one city/one ground preference. Glasgow could have three, Cardiff two and Dublin two if so - not that they would all necessarily be needed or that I'm convinced it would be a good idea to have so many games/fans in one city. I suppose we'd be banking on the Scots to contribute 4-6 with us and Wales picking up the rest.

Stuttgart88

15/05/2012, 11:45 AM

The fact that we've already successfully staged a Europa League Final will stand to the FAI. So too will the new Dublin Airport Terminal. We've moved on a lot from the Brendan Menton days of "sure let's submit a bid and see how we get on".

If a second stadium was required what could be used? Do all stadia have to be UEFA 5 star graded? Thomond or the proposed new IFA site perhaps?

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 12:15 PM

Gah Stutts. You had to go and mention the IFA.
So we'll need 4 auto qualifiers...

centre mid

15/05/2012, 12:22 PM

Its like the blind auditions on The Voice of Ireland, wait until the end of the song and see that only Turkey has pressed its button. We (& Wales) are in a far better position than the last time there was a joint bid. Swansea & Cardiff have new stadiums although both are sub 30k seaters at the moment.

fionnsci

15/05/2012, 12:42 PM

I've a really important exam tomorrow so I had plenty of time to surf the net.

SCOTLAND
Celtic Park - 60,000
Hampden Park - 52,000
Murrayfield - 67,000
New Aberdeen Stadium - 30,000 (current plans of 22,000, would need expansion)
Dundee Stadium - 30,000 (ground-share has been proposed twice, would surely be done in the event of a major tournament)

WALES
Millenium - 74,000
Liberty Stadium - 30,000 (Currently 20,500)

IRELAND
Aviva Stadium - 51,700
and two of:
Croke Park - 74,000
Thomond Park - 30,000 (Currently 26,000, probably about 20,000 if made all seated so redevelopment needed. Gaelic Grounds possibility otherwise.)
Páirc Uí Chaoimh - 45,000 (Persistent talk of redevloping this into an all-seater).

The likes of Semple are non-runners as I see it, don't have the population base surrounding them to sustain such a huge event. All in all though, it does look fairly possible if the GAA and IRFU give us a dig out.

centre mid

15/05/2012, 12:46 PM

Thomand is a given imo, its already held Internationals. Cork or Galway then would need to hold one and there is definitely redevelopment plans for both.

Dodge

15/05/2012, 4:16 PM

Ireland would be the minor partnet in it. Wales and Scottland decided to got for it last night, and tacked ireland on this morning.

On that basis, Lansdowne will be used. Maybe Thomand. Absolutely no involvment with the GAA as a) bar croker their grounds aren't good and b) we haven't a pot to **** in to develop stadiums that won't be used

IF the FAI were any way competent or serious about attrcting tournaments here they'd look to host the Euro u21s. Do up Turners Cross, the Showgrounds, Tallaght and maybe another. Lansdowne for the finals

DannyInvincible

15/05/2012, 4:30 PM

Admittedly, this sounds like a bit of an urban myth and isn't entirely relevant, but it amuses me all the same.

I think it might have been on this forum where I read about an Irish government minister being sent off to an Olympics organisational conference on the continent so he could gauge how realistic the prospect of bringing the Olympics to Ireland would be. Sure enough, he attended and was very impressed by the grand affair. Upon his return to Ireland a few days later, he reported that not only was the prospect of hosting the Olympics beyond our capabilities, we wouldn't even have the infrastructure to host the conference he'd just attended!

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 4:50 PM

Yeah Dan. Heard that story many times.

masterk78

15/05/2012, 5:34 PM

Existing stadia requiring no modifications (and no permission issues):

Celtic Park (Ibrox currently meets the criteria but will probably be a supermarket by 2020, also three stadia in one city won't be allowed)
Hampden Park
Murrayfield
Millenium Stadium
Lansdowne Road

Options:
Easter Road (would need about 10,000 additional seats, limited room for development)
Tynecastle (would need 12,000 additional seats, there are currently long term plans for a new stand to increase the capacity to 23,000, very limited room to increase by a further 7,000)
Dundee (neither Dundee club has anything close to a need for a 30,000 seat stadium, would require a new site)
Aberdeen (average attendance significantly below current capacity of 22,000, but have been plans to move to a green field site)
Liberty Stadium (would require additional 10,000 but there is room to develop and a chance the additional seats might actually be used)
Cardiff City Stadium (similar to Liberty Stadium above)
Racecourse Ground, Wrexham (would require an additional 20,000 seats, seems unlikely)
Croke Park (uncertainty over permission to use, meets the criteria, but might have to be three-sided if temporary seating not allowed)
Thomond Park (seems unlikely, would need 17,000 extra seats with limited room to develop, currently totally sufficient for Munster so permanent seating of standing areas unlikely, doubts over Limerick's hotel capacity)
Páirc Uí Chaoimh (Cork seems the likely second city in Ireland, but the government would have to include permission to use as a requirement of any redevelopment grants)

From the above, the following would seem most sensible: Croke Park, Lansdowne Road, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Hampden Park, Celtic Park, Murrayfield, new Aberdeen Stadium, Millenium Stadium, Liberty Stadium, Cardiff City Stadium. Dublin, Glasgow and Cardiff would have two venues, with Cork, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Swansea having one each. Other than Dundee, I can't see any other city being considered.

backstothewall

15/05/2012, 7:35 PM

It's increasingly important to have some sort of legacy plan for how these stadiums will be used after the tournament is over. On that basis Galway would seem to be the best location for a new stadium as between Galway United and Connacht Rugby it would be used, if not full, almost every week.

Of course there is no reason why a new stadium in Derry couldn't be used. Derry City are LOI members after all, and Stormont may well put some money towards it.

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 7:42 PM

backstothewall

15/05/2012, 7:56 PM

Derry City may be an LOI team but Derry is within the (dys)functional area of the IFA. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!

I dunno. The Shinners have secured a ball of money from them already (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0224/1224312311777.html). And they have all this city of culture stuff coming up.

As well as that it might be possible to turn the head of enough of the rugger bugger type unionists by mentioning how handy it would be if we bid for the rugby world cup.

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 8:23 PM

I dunno. The Shinners have secured a ball of money from them already (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0224/1224312311777.html). And they have all this city of culture stuff coming up.

As well as that it might be possible to turn the head of enough of the rugger bugger type unionists by mentioning how handy it would be if we bid for the rugby world cup.

If we bid for the RWC2023 it will be an all-island bid as the IRFU is an all-island body. There would be zero issues with games in NI in that case.

Now imagine a scenario (albeit unlikely) where Portugal and Spain stage a joint bid. But the bid organisers decide that they should hold a game in Biarritz... Hardly likely don't you think?

backstothewall

15/05/2012, 8:59 PM

If we bid for the RWC2023 it will be an all-island bid as the IRFU is an all-island body. There would be zero issues with games in NI in that case.

Now imagine a scenario (albeit unlikely) where Portugal and Spain stage a joint bid. But the bid organisers decide that they should hold a game in Biarritz... Hardly likely don't you think?

There's a world of difference there. I'd say this is much more akin to playing games in N. Korea during the 2002 World Cup. Something that was considered at the time

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 9:09 PM

Okay. You can't see the similarity of playing games in a football association jurisdiction that will not be "hosting" or involved in the organisation of the tournament?

And you think that an Association like the IFA would be willing to help out the perfidious FAI in their moment of glory?

And you think that the mad notion of world diplomacy of staging a game in 2002 in Pyongyang, the Capital City of a State that is still officially at war with one of the host nations' has any currency here?

Christ on a bike.

backstothewall

15/05/2012, 9:57 PM

Okay. You can't see the similarity of playing games in a football association jurisdiction that will not be "hosting" or involved in the organisation of the tournament?

I didn't say that. I just said I thought the Korea situation was a closer match. The fact that Derry play in the LOI, and that most people in Derry want their city to be in the ROI means that our border is very different to the one between France and Spain.

And you think that an Association like the IFA would be willing to help out the perfidious FAI in their moment of glory?

They would probably jump up and down and stamp their feet as usual. They might even take UEFA to CAS. God knows what they might do. But from our point of view a LOI club has potentially got €10m to spend on a stadium if the Irish Times is to believed. That's not to be sniffed it

And you think that the mad notion of world diplomacy of staging a game in 2002 in Pyongyang, the Capital City of a State that is still officially at war with one of the host nations' has any currency here?

Mad diplomatic notion or not, (a description I wouldn't disagree with) it has currency because it was openly being considered by both the S. Korean FA and Government (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/.+Korea+to+discuss+2002+World+Cup+with+N.+Korea-a050188946) at the time.

Christ on a bike.

http://www.spoonfed.co.uk/system/images/44908/default/rich_on_a_bike.jpg

Yes my child?

BonnieShels

15/05/2012, 10:52 PM

I didn't say that. I just said I thought the Korea situation was a closer match. The fact that Derry play in the LOI, and that most people in Derry want their city to be in the ROI means that our border is very different to the one between France and Spain.

They would probably jump up and down and stamp their feet as usual. They might even take UEFA to CAS. God knows what they might do. But from our point of view a LOI club has potentially got €10m to spend on a stadium if the Irish Times is to believed. That's not to be sniffed it

Mad diplomatic notion or not, (a description I wouldn't disagree with) it has currency because it was openly being considered by both the S. Korean FA and Government (http://www.thefreelibrary.com/.+Korea+to+discuss+2002+World+Cup+with+N.+Korea-a050188946) at the time.

http://www.spoonfed.co.uk/system/images/44908/default/rich_on_a_bike.jpg

Yes my child?

My reference to a game in Biarritz has got only to to with the idea of staging games outside the host nations, I could have said Toulouse or Paris or Marrakech or Tunis. That Biarritz is a Basque city obviously held no water with you anyway...

That is my point here. It is a non-runner whether Derry has an LOI club or not. Accept the realities of it now.

Derry City also receive funds from the IFA through Sport NI due to the fact of their geographical location and nothing to do with their status within the LOI.

nigel-harps1954

16/05/2012, 1:06 AM

Derry are to get money from the Brittish government for re-development of the Brandywell, was announced recently enough, but only after Windsor got most of the money for it's re-development. I'd imagine they could also apply for a grant through the FAI.

And for the record, whether or not it would happen, could you actually picture Derry playing in a 30,000 seater stadium? I think not.

There's one argument dealt with.

Charlie Darwin

16/05/2012, 2:00 AM

osarusan

16/05/2012, 4:07 AM

we haven't a pot to **** in to develop stadiums that won't be used

IF the FAI were any way competent or serious about attrcting tournaments here they'd look to host the Euro u21s. Do up Turners Cross, the Showgrounds, Tallaght and maybe another. Lansdowne for the finals

Agree with all this.

From the perspective of a LOI supporter, I'd much rather see stadiums developed that would be suitable for LOI football afterwards.

gastric

16/05/2012, 5:05 AM

Whether or not we get it is one thing, I just hope we don't embarrass ourselves like we did last time when our bid made us a laughing stock.

If we are to spend money wisely, looking at how any redeveloped grounds or new grounds could also be used by rugby and the GAA would make sense. It would also make the repayments cheaper acroos three codes rather than one.

backstothewall

16/05/2012, 8:23 AM

My reference to a game in Biarritz has got only to to with the idea of staging games outside the host nations, I could have said Toulouse or Paris or Marrakech or Tunis. That Biarritz is a Basque city obviously held no water with you anyway...

I certainly appreciate that, but the example doesn't equate to the Derry situation because if some/most Basques in San Sebastian or Bilbao don't consider themselves Spaniards, Basques in Biarritz certainly don't.

And for the record, whether or not it would happen, could you actually picture Derry playing in a 30,000 seater stadium? I think not.

There's one argument dealt with.

That's the major problem with this. The only possible future tenant anywhere for a 30,000 seater stadium is Leinster rugby, which means yet another stadium in Dublin.

Kingdom

16/05/2012, 8:26 AM

The GAA aren't going to build a big stadium in Cork. They have enough large stadiums in Munster that are suitable for their needs with Pairc na Gael, Semple Stadium and Fitzgerald Park.

If this ever got off the ground, The FAI would have to user Lansdowne. If they needed another stadium, they couldn't use Croker I believe because already the bid would have Edinburgh and Glasgow using 2 stadiums per city. Everyone assumes Thomand naturally enough, but another left field option might be Fitzgerald Stadium in Killarney. It has been redeveloped, has scope for 30k seats, and there are buckets of hotels etc in the town. Airport close by, rail facilities etc.

backstothewall

16/05/2012, 8:42 AM

jbyrne

16/05/2012, 8:50 AM

Even Thomond has massive problems. It would need 2 new stands and the site is very tight behind both goals. Roads would need to be diverted and houses would have to be demolished unless things have changed on the ground since I was last there.

no, this is still currently the case.
redevelopement of the Limericks GAA stadium would be Limericks best option. in fact in any other country the Gaelic grounds and Thomand would have been developed as one municipal stadium for use by a few sports. Both were developed separately around the same time and id say the Gaelic grounds hits over 5,000 attendance about twice a year

Yard of Pace

16/05/2012, 9:30 AM

The GAA aren't going to build a big stadium in Cork. .

Isn't Pairc ui Chaoimh earmarked for redevelopment sooner rather than later? An awful pain in the hole to get to, mind you.

Doire Abu

16/05/2012, 11:00 AM

If the WRU finally negotiate with the owners of the Arms Park on filling in Glanmor's Gap, you could probably increase the Millennium from 74.500 up to 77,000 at least. There is also talk of Cardiff City increasing their capacity if they finally make it to the premiership.

Murfinator

16/05/2012, 12:59 PM

3 countries, none of whom share a land border. Two different currencies. Seems a very disjointed bid, can't see this having much legs.

Kingdom

16/05/2012, 1:17 PM

Isn't Pairc ui Chaoimh earmarked for redevelopment sooner rather than later? An awful pain in the hole to get to, mind you.

I understand that, but there is a real possibility it is going to be barely 30k, as they have spent enough money redeveloping the Gaelic Grounds and Fitzgerald Stadium.

Kingdom

16/05/2012, 1:23 PM

no, this is still currently the case.
redevelopement of the Limericks GAA stadium would be Limericks best option. in fact in any other country the Gaelic grounds and Thomand would have been developed as one municipal stadium for use by a few sports. Both were developed separately around the same time and id say the Gaelic grounds hits over 5,000 attendance about twice a year

Aye, it's madness the way things are done in this country. In our small town alone, there is a big leisure community centre in the middle of the town, with gym, indoor hall, swimming pool, and recent floodlit fieldturf pitches.
The rugby club are a mile outside town with two adult pitches (recently held the towns cup final) with clubhouse and bar. Right beside them are the town soccer club, while the Gaa club have about 30 acres of their own, including a massive clubhouse with indoor hall, a floodlit pitch with stand, and another full size pitch in an adjacent field.
Then across the river, still in the same town, but in the other county, the other gaa team have the same land, with 2 floodlit full-size pitches, and another soccer club. In a town of about 3k population, and a serious amount of unemployment. absolute madness, and there's plenty more of that around the country.

RoppongiRebel

16/05/2012, 1:38 PM

The Pairc Ui Caomih redevelopment plans are in train and the Cork County Board is quite cash rich so funding may not be the problem it seems. I'm biased but as the second biggest city with a good redeveloped airport and good train / road network, and being naturally a football city, I would see Cork as an obvious enough venue. People think Thomond Park is a better venue than it is. Its great for atmosphere but has barely 20K seats and is very basic. Uefa would want lots done to it. More to the point Limerick is not a football city.

AlaskaFox

16/05/2012, 1:44 PM

3 countries, none of whom share a land border. Two different currencies. Seems a very disjointed bid, can't see this having much legs.

2 different currencies for the current and last tournament too though.

Charlie Darwin

16/05/2012, 1:46 PM

Who knows what currency we'll have in 8 years?

masterk78

16/05/2012, 2:19 PM

The GAA already have advanced plans to redevelop Páirc Uí Chaoimh into a 45,000 all seater. That presumably would meet the criteria and, perhaps as importantly, gives the government bargaining power to obtain permission if there is any redevelopment grant.

Fitzgerald Stadium is a ridiculous suggestion. It would need to be rebuilt from scratch (It is currently sufficient for its purpose) and the town does not have the necessary infrastructure. Not to mention the permission issue...

Galway is also not going to happen. Galway United don't play anymore. Last year they played in front of less than 1,000 people per game. Connacht's highest attendance ever is about 9,000.

Murfinator

16/05/2012, 2:24 PM

2 different currencies for the current and last tournament too though.

Austria/Switzerland share a land border and are relatively simple to travel between. From my time in Switzerland I know most places accepted Euro as well, I'd imagine they were even more receptive to that during tournament times in certain locations. Very similar countries with simple travel between essentially.

Poland/Ukraine is different granted, although they do still have the land border. Its a lot of peoples views that locations for Euro 2012 are too spread out, particularly in Ukraine. The size, distance, different cultures, languages etc are all flagged as potential problems here so we'll have to see how successful that is. I personally don't think UEFA would be in a rush to revisit a bid in the style of Poland/Ukraine again.

jbyrne

16/05/2012, 2:29 PM

Austria/Switzerland share a land border and are relatively simple to travel between. From my time in Switzerland I know most places accepted Euro as well, I'd imagine they were even more receptive to that during tournament times in certain locations. Very similar countries with simple travel between essentially.

Poland/Ukraine is different granted, although they do still have the land border. Its a lot of peoples views that locations for Euro 2012 are too spread out, particularly in Ukraine. The size, distance, different cultures, languages etc are all flagged as potential problems here so we'll have to see how successful that is. I personally don't think UEFA would be in a rush to revisit a bid in the style of Poland/Ukraine again.

japan / korea. miles apart geographically and culturally, different currency, different language and they historically hate each other. Among the best 3 weeks of my life attending the WC in 2002

Murfinator

16/05/2012, 2:34 PM

Another factor which would count against the bid is legacy impact. The leagues in the 3 countries are at best an absolute joke. Welsh sides are either non-professional or playing in England, Irish club attendances and stability are pitiful and the only successful Scottish sides are mired by having the worst supporter reputation on the planet, not to mention its league being in free fall.

UEFA will want to market its showpiece event to a country with a flourishing national league where it can build on its current success rather try and rescue leagues with low interest hanging off a cliff for very survival. The main benefactor in legacy from such a bid would likely be England given the huge numbers from the 3 countries who enter their clubs at youth level, never to be seen in respective leagues.

However you look at it I can't take this as a serious bid

Murfinator

16/05/2012, 2:39 PM

japan / korea. miles apart geographically and culturally, different currency, different language and they historically hate each other. Among the best 3 weeks of my life attending the WC in 2002

World cups have twice the number of games as Euros (before the format change) so theres a greater capacity for that. You start divvying up a 31 game tournament between 3 countries and creating the right kind of atmosphere will be difficult. If the split were even we may have only 4 more games than the "nations cup" and we all know how that went.

DannyInvincible

16/05/2012, 3:07 PM

Unless I'm very much mistaken, Derry City is still formally under the jurisdiction of IFA and only plays in the League of Ireland as the result of a special dispensation from the northern organisation.

edit: that is to say, if the IFA withdrew permission tomorrow, Derry would once again be solely answerable to the IFA

This is what I have been told, but also open to correction.

John Delaney was asked recently on the YBIG podcast about the prospect of the FAI hosting an under-age international in the Brandywell but such a fixture would have to be sanctioned by the IFA, even though Derry City play in the League of Ireland.

Article 7.1 of FIFA's Regulations Governing International Matches (http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/01/49/00/38/regulations_gov_international_matches_2011.pdf) states:

"All International Matches must be authorised by the Members to which the participating teams are affiliated and by the Member on whose territory the match is to occur."

Lionel Ritchie

16/05/2012, 3:12 PM

no, this is still currently the case.
redevelopement of the Limericks GAA stadium would be Limericks best option. in fact in any other country the Gaelic grounds and Thomand would have been developed as one municipal stadium for use by a few sports. Both were developed separately around the same time and id say the Gaelic grounds hits over 5,000 attendance about twice a year

I used live near both. I don't follow the exploits of the local gah much but their stadium is very rarely anywhere near full. I think the last time was around 2004. I don't understand the internacine politics of the GAA but I'm told Cork have an effective veto against plaing there?

I don't think the Thomond Park issues are insurmountable in terms of getting it up to 30,000 all seater. Tight for sure but doable. Limerick would have plenty of hotel and accomodation capacity for visitors as well ...plenty.

jbyrne

16/05/2012, 3:19 PM

World cups have twice the number of games as Euros (before the format change) so theres a greater capacity for that. You start divvying up a 31 game tournament between 3 countries and creating the right kind of atmosphere will be difficult. If the split were even we may have only 4 more games than the "nations cup" and we all know how that went.

i dont think the preceived issues with the nations cup was down to the lack of fixtures. also, it was nothing more than a friendly competition held at a time when it was the done thing by alleged fans and the media to ridicule the national team and that particular competition.

if our group was based in this country the atmosphere would be incredible

Stuttgart88

16/05/2012, 5:30 PM

Was murfinator really comparing the Carling Nations Cup matches to a Euro finals? Crikey.

paul_oshea

17/05/2012, 2:19 PM

Was murfinator really comparing the Carling Nations Cup matches to a Euro finals? Crikey.

Its great to see the Heino final, people having to give away tickets, especially considering that london has over 400k Irish over here....I could only imagine what it would be like for an Irish footballing side in the CL equivalent, nevermind 2 Irish sides.

I am aware connacht would be best represented in terms of irish diaspora, but ulster and Leinster are also very well represented over here.