Euro 2012 Squad Discussion

[Stuttgart88]

Is there already a thread on this? Feel free to move if there is, but I thought it'd be useful to consolidate "who will and who won't make it" discussion.

Here is who I think is a firm favourite:

1. Given
2. Westwood
3. Forde
-------
4. Dunne
5. O'Shea
6. Kelly
7. Ward
8. Sledge
9. O'Dea
10. Foley
------
11. Duff
12. McGeady
13. Whelan
14. Andrews
15. Gibson
16. Fahey
17. Hunt
-------
18. Keane
19. Doyle
20. Walters
21. Long
22. Cox

So, that leaves one more. The debating points are:

- McClean's form probably justifies a place.
- McCarthy's form probably justifies a place.
- Coleman has dropped down the order based on form. I would not take him.
- Paul Green is a Trap favourite, but I think he won't make it.
- Foley should not be a certainty but only taking 6 defenders is a big risk. He'll make it.
- Fahey's form places him behind McCarthy, but tenure is in his favour.
- Hunt's form places him behind McClean, but tenure is in his favour
- Cox might have to make way if both McCarthy and McClean make it.
- Might Trap risk only taking 2 keepers?
- Clark, Wilson, Duffy, McShane and Lawrence can only hope for an injury at this stage.
- Hoolahan's absence has already been explained by Trap.

I think that covers all bases. Anything else?

[SwanVsDalton]

Might Trap risk only taking 2 keepers?

Gotta take three goalies. Tis the rules (http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf).

On the rest I think you're pretty much spot on in your thinking.

Personally I'd like to see McCarthy take the last spot and McClean instead of Hunt. Sorry Stephen but the form's against you.

If Hunt is retained, I'd still like to see McClean go. Simply put I can't see McCarthy getting much of a game whereas McClean is a realistic option if we're chasing a goal or even if Trap simply wants a workhorse/out ball if we're under pressure.

[paul_oshea]

I think the Derry bias is coming in here.

You certainly are one of the protaganist about adding new players usually, and going with the tried and trusted. Loyalties come first though it seems...:P

[SwanVsDalton]

I think the Derry bias is coming in here.

You certainly are one of the protaganist about adding new players usually, and going with the tried and trusted. Loyalties come first though it seems...:P

I'd dispute but you're not far off! It isn't bias though. When people were clamoring for McClean initially I was quite vocal in defending Trap for not just calling him up immediately.

But he's convinced me - bar a few to-be-expected anonymous outings, he's been very good.

However I'm just stating my opinion. If Trap was to stick with Hunt I'd see the logic, and wouldn't complain. Like I said on the McClean thread - loyalty and consistency is a bedrock of this team. I just think McClean's made an exceptional case.

With ten minutes to go in a group game who do people think would make more impact - Hunt or McClean?

James would be my shout and I think that's the basis for picking him, added to the fact one wild card in a squad, when warranted, can be of good benefit overall (young, enthusiastic, in-form, confident player boosting everyone around them).

[ifk101]

Would Paul McShane not be ahead of Kevin Foley in the reckoning?

[Stuttgart88]

I wouldn't have thought so. McShane hasn't been called up in a while, Foley has been a squad regular as far as I can recall.

[DannyInvincible]

Gotta take three goalies. Tis the rules (http://www.uefa.com/multimediafiles/download/competitions/euro/91/87/57/918757_download.pdf).

Was there something about Niall Quinn being designated as our third goalie for Euro '88 and/or Italia '90? Of course, he was also able to play outfield then. Such an outlet is no longer open as goalies and outfield players now have to be distinguished and registered separately.

[elroy]

Looking around for the deadline for submitting the squad, I came across this website.

Not sure its origin, perhaps Polish but interesting to read the piece on Ireland and how the rest of Europe sees us - ie happy to be there, making up the numbers.
hopefully the lads can show them otherwise.


http://www.poland2012.net/teams/ireland-team/

[DannyInvincible]

Looking around for the deadline for submitting the squad, I came across this website.

Not sure its origin, perhaps Polish but interesting to read the piece on Ireland and how the rest of Europe sees us - ie happy to be there, making up the numbers.
hopefully the lads can show them otherwise.


http://www.poland2012.net/teams/ireland-team/

Riddled with an impressive tally of inaccuracies and rash statements for a piece of a mere four paragraphs.

[Crosby87]

We wouldnt even be here if not for Fahey and Trap is going to leave him home?

[DannyInvincible]

We wouldnt even be here if not for Fahey and Trap is going to leave him home?

Where'd you hear this?

[Junior]

Is the consensus that Keogh is definitely out of the reckoning at this stage? He has actually hit a bit of form now it seems, though many of the squads he featured in he was not playing much at club level or cetainly not doing anything out of the ordinary. Just throwing it out there like.......

[Junior]

For me,

McCarthy to take last spot.
McClean to take Hunts spot. Im 50/50 on this would be very harsh on Hunt and despite his club situation/form he would also still be an impact substitution. Experience or Youthful enthusiasm - This is a real toughy.......

Foley - Im not comfortable with his place in the squad as you have also outlined. Just not sure what other options.....Harte? (I never in my wildest dreams thought I would say that) or Clark. Foley will probably get the nod but more by good fortune and lack of other options than anything else.

[Stuttgart88]

For me Keogh has been overtaken by Cox. Walters has also claimed a spot since Keogh's hey day in green. Even Leon Best probbaly won't make it. I think Keogh is arguably 7th in the forward pecking order, and that ignores Stokes.

[ifk101]

Keogh has mainly been used as a wide midfielder and Cox has been used up front so it's arguable they are not competing for the same place in the squad. Trapattoni seems to favour Cox when it comes to performing the Robbie Keane role in the team with Walters increasingly favoured as the replacement for Doyle. Long seems to fall in the middle between the Keane and Doyle roles.

[Stuttgart88]

Well, if he's only in contention for a wide midfield role he's got no chance. I always felt taht Keogh's main asset for trap was that he was a good guy to have around. Hard working on the pitch, good fun off it.

[geysir]

He scored Trap's first goal, didn't he?
First impressions.

[Stuttgart88]

Paul McShane gave away Trap's first goal conceded. He stayed in for long enough.

[shakermaker1982]

I reckon McClean and McCarthy will both make it. Hunt to miss out. Harsh but McClean would make a great impact sub.

O'Shea at LB, Kelly at RB and Ward just there to make the numbers up.

Could Clark overtake Foley if he keeps getting game time for Villa?

[Closed Account]

Pos
Name
Caps
Goals


GK

Shay Given
121
0


GK
Keiren Westwood
8
0


GK
David Forde
2
0


GK

Stephen Henderson
0
0


GK
Brian Murphy
0
0








DF

John O'Shea
75
1


DF
Richard Dunne
71
8


DF
Stephen Kelly
29
0


DF
Sean St Ledger
25
2


DF
Darren O'Dea
13
0


DF
Stephen Ward
10
2


DF
Kevin Foley
8
0


DF

Shane Duffy
0
0


DF
Damien Delaney
5
0


DF
Kevin Kilbane
110
8


DF
Paul McShane
26
0


DF
Marc Wilson
1
0


DF
Ciaran Clark
2
0








MF

Damien Duff
95
8


MF
Aiden McGeady
47
2


MF
Stephen Hunt
38
1


MF
Glenn Whelan
37
2


MF
Keith Andrews
27
3


MF
Darron Gibson
17
1


MF
Keith Fahey
15
3


MF
James McCarthy
3
0


MF

Paul Green
10
1


MF
Séamus Coleman
4
0


MF
James McClean
1
0


MF
Keith Treacy
6
0








FW

Robbie Keane (C)
115
53


FW
Kevin Doyle
46
10


FW
Shane Long
24
6


FW
Simon Cox
11
3


FW
Jonathan Walters
5
1


FW

Andy Keogh
22
1


FW
Leon Best
7
0


FW
Anthony Stokes
4
0



I'd be very suprised, injuries aside, if the lads in bold weren't the final 23. McCarthy is the only one, in my mind not sure of his position. McClean/Hunt argument is all well and good speaking about impact subs etc., but that's not how Trap operates.
Simply, if Duff or McGeady pick up suspension/injury in first or second game, Hunt is the natural replacement, because he knows the defensive system, something Trap won't gamble on teaching McClean in the build up to a big tournament. He simply doesn't have time to focus on 1 player. Fahey/Walters/Foley can all play wide in a pinch should both our 1st choice wingers get injured.

We won't be out there playing attacking football. In my opinion, we'll definitely need to, but if we are losing 2-0 in the last game, our plan B won't involve any McClean type players, it'll involve a Walters type player.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Joe, how come you don't have darren randolph in the keepers list?

[Closed Account]

Joe, how come you don't have darren randolph in the keepers list?
Just took that list from callups and recent callups on Wiki. He'd be ahead of B Murphy I'd say.

[shakermaker1982]

The defensive 'system' we deploy for our two wingers isn't exactly rocket science. Particuarly for a player like McClean who already tracks back, works hard and keeps on running like Forest Gump. Fair enough if it was somebody like Stephen Ireland then yes it would be a wasted project in trying to convert him to our evil ways but McClean will fit right in and that is why I think he'll make the plane. I hope so anyway....

Hunt has played 66 minutes of PL football since the 1st of January. It's gonna be a big ask of him to be match fit for June.

[paul_oshea]

Agenda : Teach McClean the defensive system.

"when you lose the ball you track back. When you dont have the ball you sit deep. When you have the ball you run with it and try to set up a goal scoring chance. If you lose the ball to a corner, take the corner, if you lose the ball for a throw or kick out to the opposition track back to cover the left full back. If you lose the ball to a counter attack, track back to cover the left back area and any runs from midfield in your opposite number. The defensive system."

[shakermaker1982]

you just need an Italian accent now Paul!!

[Charlie Darwin]

McClean strikes me as the type of player who could learn Trap's defensive system in his sleep. His instinct seems always to be to help out his full back anyway, and he seems to have an endless supply of energy. Having only played half the season, he'll also be relatively fresh compared to Hunt who's been troubled with injury.

[Closed Account]

Fair enough lads, too be clear, I'd bring along McClean too. But I doubt Trap will.

Plus you're taking a rather simplistic view of international football. I've linked to this article before http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jan/29/secret-footballer-andy-gray-pundits

Switch to our world and the level of detail that goes into games still, to this day, amazes me. Every player has his own script, what to do, when to do it, information on the player he's up against, including weight, height, age, strengths, weaknesses, even what that opponent is likely to do when the ball comes to him in certain situations. We memorise every single set piece, where we have to stand, run and end up. We even memorise this for the other players so we know where everyone else will be at any given time.
To some players, this level of detail comes naturally, they are students of the game. Love every part of it. Interviews with James McClean certainly indicate that he is enthusiastic about it all and it does augur well for the future. But I still maintain that Trap is more likely to stick with Hunt who he knows, and from what we know of Trap, he certainly errs on the side of caution.

[paul_oshea]

I wasn't disagreeing with what you were saying about how Trap works joe. Far from it, i just think the whole thing is a bit naive(not your point). Thats a good article, it certianly gives a lot of credit to a footballers tactical intelligence and memory, something most wouldn't think about, or at least only from a simple amateur viewpoint of mark this player, he likes to come inside, he will pull on yer left etc etc, but not to that level. But how much really during a game does a player remember/think about, i would say very little - they shoudln't have that much time to think.

[shakermaker1982]

I do enjoy reading TSF articles every week. However I cannot imagine Balotelli playing with his ipad 24 hours before a game checking out the runs his oppenents might be making in a game!

This in depth analysis obviously takes place within the PL but I think at international level you don't have the time to over analyze your opponents, particularly at tournament football. Players may only have 3 days rest in between games and are probably resting up or getting treatment to cure ailments. Brian Kerr did try and implement video sessions into his pre match ritual but it didn't go down too well with the squad from what I remember. That is not to say I don't believe in scouting your opponents and keeping a close eye on the danger men but I'd try and strike a balance.

[SwanVsDalton]

The squad could be getting a third official warm-up friendly pre-tourney (http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/trap-weighs-up-albania-clash-3090742.html). Would be more useful than playing a Serie C side anyway.

[geysir]

And on May 7, we'll know who the 23rd man is.

[paul_oshea]

:)

Is anyone worried about too many warm up matches? I gather they will be quite competitive and thats what worries me.

[SwanVsDalton]

Not sure. Think they'll be competitive but is there not a wide acceptance for no one to over do it? I mean for our players to not go crazy and the opposition not to be too reckless and wreck someone pre-tourney.

For some reason I have zero memory of our warm-up's pre WC2002 (Saipan probably overshadowed them) but I remember at least our Germany warm-up pre 94. That didn't seem overly competitive, notwithstanding the good result.

[paul_oshea]

As a midfielder or a defender how do you impress without being competitive. That extra bite makes you standout.

I dont mean lunging in at tackles, but that extra competitiveness and bite could cause you or others injuries, but if you want to impress its a numbers game init?

[jbyrne]

the risk of picking up an injury or two has to be balanced with the risk of the whole team entering the tournament without playing a decent enough match for 4 weeks after the league season ends. i think the risk of holding back in friendlies and thereby the squad losing a bit of sharpness is greater.

pre 2002 we played nigeria at home and didnt play well at all and we played a local Japanese team and McAteer got injured

[paul_oshea]

Sorry JB I dont quite get your second sentence, are you saying we need to be sharp, that is of greater importance than holding back?

[Stuttgart88]

It's a balancing act. You need to be match sharp without wearing yourself out and risking injury. Easier typed than done. I would guess that JB is saying that risking an individual injury is a price worth paying for the whole team being sharp and ready for action.

[paul_oshea]

We landed on the moon. Eureka!

[jbyrne]

It's a balancing act. You need to be match sharp without wearing yourself out and risking injury. Easier typed than done. I would guess that JB is saying that risking an individual injury is a price worth paying for the whole team being sharp and ready for action.

yes, thats what i meant. dont have as much time to give to my posts these days!

sorry (to some) for the rugby example but we went into the 2007 rwc without enough pre-tournament game time for our players and had a stinker as a result. it only takes two weeks of match inaction for your sharpness to be dulled and thats what we should look to avoid imo.

[Olé Olé]

At the end of Soccer Saturday on RTÉ this evening Darragh Moloney turned attention to an article in the Daily Mail tomorrow. From what I picked up the article is carrying direct quotes from Trap to the effect that McClean is "90-99%" certain to be in the squad for the Euro's. The article also states that there will be 5 strikers (Doyle, Walters, Keane, Long and Cox, presumably) and 4 wingers and 4 central players.

Keith Fahey could be out of the Euro's with a recurrent groin problem, which is a real pity for the guy given how his career has gone so far. Anyway, that would leave McClean, Hunt, Duff and McGeady as Trap's 4 wingers of choice.

Now, if Fahey does prove himself fit then Trap is left with a conundrum. In Fahey's absence the 4 wingers would pick themselves, regardless of which flank they play on regularly. However, if Fahey was fit then Trap would have to select 4 from 2 predominantly right-sided midfielders for Ireland in McGeady and Fahey, while the left-sided wingers would be McClean, Hunt and Duff. I've seen Hunt to fill in on the right for Ireland and Roy Hodgson played Duff on the right for Fulham but if I'm going on the basis of Trap's past selection. Given that McGeady and Duff are the staples of an Irish squad under Trapattoni, competition for the other 2 spots would be strong. Issue being that Fahey would be the only right-sided player of the 3 and, henceforth, likely to be picked. So then, we're left with the McClean versus Hunt debate as we've consistently been having. If these quotes are accurate then McClean is likely to win out, or so it would seem. That is, unless Trap is "90-99%" certain that Fahey will miss the Euro's which would be like a pre-emptive Neurofen tablet, getting to the source of selection headaches before they even happen.

That is until Trapattoni has to choose his 4 centre midfielders. This looks a straight-forward decision, with Andrews and Whelan having performed well under Trapattoni and Gibson and James McCarthy in fine Premier League form. Were we not so familiar with Trap's methods then we could expect any combination from the group to start. But accustomed as we are to Trap's ways that the name Paul Green must also be factored into this equation. I would hazard a guess that Andrews, Whelan and Gibson are the three most certain of their places on the plane. I reserve some doubt as to whether Trap will make the right call and bring James McCarthy, of resurgent Wigan fame, rather than the championship level Green.

[Stuttgart88]

Yep, I think we're all a bit worried about Trap's thinking wrt McCarthy.

wrt Fahey, Hughton said recently that Fahey's injury was OK, it just needed managing. I think we all agree that Fahey is a tidy player and a great guy, but in cold light of day if I had to leave him out to bring McCarthy I would.

[Olé Olé]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/mcclean-is-caught-among-traps-90-per-centers-3095215.html
I'm after getting the Sunday Independent this morning and it has put Trapattoni's "90-99%" comments into a more appropriate context than Darragh Moloney served to do when quoting the Daily Mail last night.

Trapattoni went onto state that a few players have a 90% chance to go. Well, at least it's an indication that McClean is on a level footing with Hunt and well up for consideration, unlike the position Trap seemed to hold prior to the friendly against the Czech Republic.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd have thought Fahey was seen by Trap as a central player now as opposed to a wide midfielder.

[Olé Olé]

I'll agree that he has more recently been deployed in the middle by Trap, for instance against Uruguay, away to Andorra and at home to Armenia. However, away to Armenia, away to Russia and away to Slovkia came on on the right, I'm almost certain. Away to Estonia he came on in the middle and he came on on the right in the reverse fixture.

So it's fairly even between Fahey being deployed as a central or right-sided midfielder by Trapattoni.

I would have thought that in squad terms, now that Keogh has been dropped and with Fahey unlikely to start, Fahey is the second choice right-sided midfielder, after McGeady. This doesn't take into account any movement of Hunt and Duff to the right side.

[Closed Account]

A mate of mine had an interview with him yesterday. First thing he said was that he was very hard to understand. He had an interpreter but it was some dude, not manuela, boo.

What my mate got from I was that Mcclean will be in the squad, but mccarthy will only be on standby.

[Charlie Darwin]

A mate of mine had an interview with him yesterday. First thing he said was that he was very hard to understand. He had an interpreter but it was some dude, not manuela, boo.
I thought you meant Fahey there.

[backstothewall]

On McClean, I think in Traps system he doesn't distinguish between left & right wingers. He will take 4 wide midfielders with him, and expect that at least one of the 2 he picks for a game can play on either the left or right if required. And in fairness McGeady and Duff offer him just that. The 90% quote says to me that McLean is the 4th of these along with Duff, McGeady & Hunt

I think the following are sure to go

Given
Westwood

Kelly
Sledge
O'Shea
Dunne
O'Dea
Ward

Gibson
Whelan
Andrews

Duff
McClean
McGeady
Hunt

Walters
Keane
Doyle
Long
Cox

That leaves 2 outfield places, + a goalie. I'd imagine at least one of the two will be a central midfielder. I'd imagine he's already decided in his own mind who he will take, but it could be any one of Fahey, McCarthy, Paul Green or even Marc Wilson. I can see him sitting long into next Sunday night before deciding on who the 23rd man will be.

[paul_oshea]

there is no justification in picking green ahead of mccarthy.I actually thought green was ok against Slovakia but its a travesty should he make the plane and not mccarthy....I wonder has trap already had a word with him and that prompted his move with regard to not signing a new contract.

[geysir]

Nothing to do with Trap, Green is a free agent now and this is his opportunity to get a decent pension. It has been understood for a while I think, that Derby were no going to be able to offer him an acceptable contract.

[EastTerracer]

Irish Times reporting that McClean may be picked instead of "an established player"
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0430/1224315361252.html