Senior or Junior.......what's in a name?

[Eric]

Having played Janesboro in the Munster Junior Cup at the weekend it got me thinking. Why is it Cork and Dublin have Senior leagues but every other county has Junior leagues?

Sides like Janesboro, Pike Rovers etc are Senior in everything but name. They'd easily hold their own in the Senior Premier in Cork.

Is there an obvious reason for this or do different leagues have their choice whether to be Senior or Junior leagues?

[AvondaleNutter]

Having played Janesboro in the Munster Junior Cup at the weekend it got me thinking. Why is it Cork and Dublin have Senior leagues but every other county has Junior leagues?

Sides like Janesboro, Pike Rovers etc are Senior in everything but name. They'd easily hold their own in the Senior Premier in Cork.

Is there an obvious reason for this or do different leagues have their choice whether to be Senior or Junior leagues?


They can join the Munster Senior League if they wish but since it's cork dominated, it would require a lot of travelling. Killarney Celtic attemepted it a few years ago.

[Eric]

So the Senior league is open to teams from other counties but they choose to remain Junior?

[thebooboys]

Limerick, Kerry & Tipp teams have been members of the MSL not so long ago

[Chiefscout]

Clonmel,Killarney and Tralee were all in the msl as far as I'm aware

[beautiful game]

It all needs to be looked at. Wouldn't like to see teams from outside of Cork entering the league. It was tried before and I don't think it made any appeal.

What's really needed is a look at division 1 and division 2.

There's a huge gulf in class now between all the divisions and there's only a few clubs now who appear to have everything in place to pick up the major trophies.

I know there are different factors involved off the field that clubs are trying to contend with financially and in terms of players emigrating but you've got to try and set your stall out at the start of a season and set yourself a realistic goal and more importantly than anything be competitive right to the last game of the season.

[Eric]

If there's only a handful of clubs capable of challenging for trophies then why wouldn't you like to see other clubs joining the league that would also be capable of challenging??

Janesboro, Pike Rovers, Fairview Rangers, Clonmel, Nenagh, St. Michaels, Carrick United and Tramore are all clubs that would benefit the MSL senior premier. Add those to the handful of clubs in Cork capable of challenging and you'd have a very competitive division. That would have a knock-on effect in making the other divisions competitive too.

[beautiful game]

I agree on it being potentially more competitive but logistically it wouldn't appeal to players travelling every week. We have a good product locally that needs to be structured accordingly.

We need the GAA mentality and we need to get people out to support their local football club and create some form of atmosphere for the players to showcase their ability.

The novelty of travelling all over Munster every second weekend would fade very quickly and you'd have some meaningless matches over the course of the season that would cause problems.

I reckon the clubs would vote against any such new league involving teams outside of Cork.

[Two Touch]

It all needs to be looked at. Wouldn't like to see teams from outside of Cork entering the league. It was tried before and I don't think it made any appeal.

What's really needed is a look at division 1 and division 2.

There's a huge gulf in class now between all the divisions and there's only a few clubs now who appear to have everything in place to pick up the major trophies.

I know there are different factors involved off the field that clubs are trying to contend with financially and in terms of players emigrating but you've got to try and set your stall out at the start of a season and set yourself a realistic goal and more importantly than anything be competitive right to the last game of the season.

Why would divisions 1 & 2 need to be looked at??? If you are talking about competitiveness, from what i can see, there seems to be 3 or 4 teams in the running for promotion for the 1st Division whilst there are 3 teams going for promotion in the 2nd Division with only a few games left in both leagues. Compare that to the Premier which was all but over still with a number of games remaining.

I don't really understand what point you are trying to make.

[Dixie's Cousin]

I know it's a different class altogether but look at Norwich, double promotion and holding their own in the premier league.

Look at Bandon, if they go up this year will they hold their own? I'd say yes, but look at Youghal, no offense but the would go straight back down if they did a double promotion!

There is a huge difference in the leagues but that's nobodies fault

[Two Touch]

I know it's a different class altogether but look at Norwich, double promotion and holding their own in the premier league.

Look at Bandon, if they go up this year will they hold their own? I'd say yes, but look at Youghal, no offense but the would go straight back down if they did a double promotion!

There is a huge difference in the leagues but that's nobodies fault


Of course there is a difference in class. It would be naive to suggest there isn't. However, what is the alternative? Not to bother trying to achive any kind of promotion for fear of being not good enough the next year??

I still don't get beautiful games point about looking at the 1st & 2nd divisions. The MSL should be encouraging teams to enter & compete in these divisions. Football isn't just for the so called 'elite'.

[Dixie's Cousin]

I would be the same, i'm involved with a division 1 team and we've beaten premier teams this season. I wouldn't go traveling over 50-60 miles for a game 10 times a season just to play at a so called higher level. I think the Limerick and Tipp teams are content where they are

[Two Touch]

I would be the same, i'm involved with a division 1 team and we've beaten premier teams this season. I wouldn't go traveling over 50-60 miles for a game 10 times a season just to play at a so called higher level. I think the Limerick and Tipp teams are content where they are

The club that i'm involved in are going for promotion in Division 2 & we have drawn with 2 of the so called giants of the MSL in cup competitions at the start in the season. No-one would have given us a chance!
I think there are more than enough teams in Cork (city & county) to make each division fairly competitive. As for playing teams from Limerick,Tipp etc, it would come down to a cost issue as much as anything else. How many teams could afford to travel such distances 10-12 times per season?

[maninthemiddle]

i played senior league from 95 -2006 and there used to be teasm from outside cork. tralee ,kilarney, waterford united as well as the likes of cork city and cobh ramblers but it was grand for cork teams travelling maybe 4 or 5 times a year but those teams i mentioned would be travelling up to 15 or 20 times a year if you included cup games and not to mention travelling up to cork for midweek games. it was unsustainable which was a pity.

[AvondaleNutter]

Looks like Bandon got hammered by a very poor ringmahon team so doesn't say much about your comment Dixie. The gap between the leagues is bigger than you think. Corinthians came up last year, strengthened and are still in serious trouble. Having seen the likes of UCC and Carrigaline this year, the first division is still a very weak league. Sorry if I'm offending anyone but it's just my opinion

[thebooboys]

Looks like Bandon got hammered by a very poor ringmahon team so doesn't say much about your comment Dixie. The gap between the leagues is bigger than you think. Corinthians came up last year, strengthened and are still in serious trouble. Having seen the likes of UCC and Carrigaline this year, the first division is still a very weak league. Sorry if I'm offending anyone but it's just my opinion

To be fair the original comment was made regarding the Junior Teams in Tipp and Limerick, see Eric's post at beginning of thread

[Eric]

My original comment was just wondering why certain counties are Junior leagues rather than Senior even though their top teams are as good as the top teams in Cork. My query was answered as to why. I wasn't saying they should be made play in the MSL.

As for affording the travel costs if there was teams from different counties in the league.........any of te top clubs in Cork, Limerick, Tipp and Waterford could easily afford those costs.

Team I'm involved with are Junior 1st Division so don't know enough about the gaps in the senior divisions to make a comment on that. Surely though (and this is just to make discussion) having the best teams compete at the top level would help even out the competitiveness of each of the divisions?

[historynut]

Great believer in Pyramid system, though for whatever reason it does'nt seem to fit in with Irish Football. Many teams from outside Cork have participated in the MSL over the years.
The impression I get is there are many clubs in Junior Leagues that are of Intermediate status, possibly are they probably prefering to be large fish in small ponds ?
One would wonder how strong a potential Munster "Provincial" Senior league - comprising say for eg Pike, Tralee, Killarney, Carrick, Clonmel, Fermoy, Tipperary, Cahir, Ennis.
Some clubs listed may be more historical than current.
But I will state that the time is coming where by a level needs to be intoduced as certain clubs are dominating their own Junior Leagues for too long.
Either bite the bullet and seek election to the MSL, or advocate a provincial MSL (there has been in the past a North Munster League), give it a number of years and possible merge with MSL.

[Mailman]

Can't agree with your point that the 1st division is still a very weak league. UCC were unlucky to be relegated last year, a lack of firepower in front of goal cost them and they gave a lot of the bigger teams serious problems. Carrigaline have beaten St. Marys twice this season in cup competitions while Fermoy reached the latter stages of the Munster Senior Cup and gave a great account of themselves against LOI oppostion. The premier division obviously has its top teams, but a number of teams in the 1st division would be able to hold their own amongst the remaining 5 or 6 teams over the course of a season I reckon.