View Full Version : Left or Right Side of the Crash Barrier
Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95
What a bunch of trendy lefties.
KOH
Well if Conor is to believed, with an economic left/right score like that, you're a prime FF candidate... ;)
WeAreRovers
05/08/2004, 11:52 AM
Well if Conor is to believed, with an economic left/right score like that, you're a prime FF candidate... ;)
I would be in the imaginary FF that Conor seems to think still exists. :rolleyes:
That was before Micheal Martin and the PD tail wagging the FF dog. The current government is the most authoritarian I can ever remember.
In fairness to McCreevy though ( :eek: ) I'm a free marketeer like himself but it's the social policies of the FF/PD coalition that drive me nuts. We need less laws not more - stop criminalising ordinary law-abiding citizens!
KOH
Sure I could drive around at 80mph to and from the pub all day, cos the only time I ever see Garda check points and speed traps is on motorways and dual-carriageways... Still, no point policing the country roads where most fatalities occur when there's money to be made....
Peadar
05/08/2004, 1:18 PM
Still, no point policing the country roads where most fatalities occur when there's money to be made....
So long as we have people willing to break the law we'll always have a tough job trying to police the state. You need to ask yourself Macy, are the police at fault because they're not on every high-road and byroad or are the people who break the law on these roads at fault because they think it's not wrong if they're not caught? The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.
I'm confused. Are you saying social policy and interference is bad, or social policy is good but just not enforced enough for your liking? Have you tried asking your local Gardaí why they are not doing their job, or is it easier to sit and complain?
I'm saying that some social policy is good, however how it is enforced is more important. For example 80mph is not that big a problem on a motorway, whereas 80mph on back roads is a major danger to other road users (couldn't give a fúck about the actual driver, if he wants to kill himself fine). So the guards should be concentrating on the back roads, not on motorway bridges, the 6 lane Stillorgan dual carriageway etc.
It is easier not to complain to any police force, as you'll just be harrassed for daring to question how they do their job, and frankly it's the Minister of Justice job to set up the dedicated Traffic Corps and tell them where they should be concentrating their efforts.
So long as we have people willing to break the law we'll always have a tough job trying to police the state. You need to ask yourself Macy, are the police at fault because they're not on every high-road and byroad or are the people who break the law on these roads at fault because they think it's not wrong if they're not caught? The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.
I agree, but it is up to the respective Governments to concentrate the resources in the areas that there would be the most benefit. And by benefit I mean social benefit not monetary. Surely you can't argue that most road deaths take place on single carriageway roads as opposed to Dual Carriageways and Motorways?
Peadar
05/08/2004, 1:34 PM
Surely you can't argue that most road deaths take place on single carriageway roads as opposed to Dual Carriageways and Motorways?
Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.
I think we need to address the root of this problem rather than having police out hiding in laneways trying to catch them.
Education is another issue which needs to be addressed.
WeAreRovers
05/08/2004, 1:54 PM
The fact of the matter is that there is a general wave of lawlessness in Britain and Ireland at the moment and everyone is blaming their respective governments. In truth we should all take more responsibility for our actions and until such time as we do the state will have to continue to impose greater restrictions on us.
When the Tories get sick of Michael Howard they have a ready made new leader in Peadar. Try reading the above quote to yourself in a plummy Michael Howard style voice - it's uncanny. ;)
KOH
Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.
I think we need to address the root of this problem rather than having police out hiding in laneways trying to catch them.
Education is another issue which needs to be addressed.
I agree with the education, however it's still not on the motorways that most accidents caused by speed happen. You are far more likely to pass a speed trap during the day on a dual carraigeway, than even late at night on the same roads. Infact, the favourite time in Stillorgan is Sunday Morning :rolleyes:
Most deaths involve and/or are caused by young males at night where excessive speed is cited as a contributing factor.
All officials seem to imply that speed is the only factor in road deaths.
Drove 300 miles from Dingle-Dublin-Drogs-Dublin monday on last day of long weekend (usual time of high garda presence) & saw 1 Garda "speed" check on dualcarraigeway around Limerick.
IMO irish roads & inappropriate speed are the main causes of road accidenst & fatalities. Our roads are mainly single carraigeway with ditches which means if make mistake then slime chance of correcting without hitting ditch/tree/wall/pole. Even the dualcarraigeways & motorways have woeful design cos NRA have no clue (e.g. crash barrier debate).
Split the thread, as going way off topic, even for off topic.
Peadar
05/08/2004, 2:20 PM
Even the dualcarraigeways & motorways have woeful design cos NRA have no clue (e.g. crash barrier debate).
You've just cued a certain Pat's fan for debate :D
Pete, if a driver can see that the roads are unsuitable for certain speeds then it is their duty to drive at a reduced speed.
We're all adults FFS!
Do we really have to have a garda standing in front of us with a speed gun in order for us to obey the speed limit?
If I had my way anyone caught speeding would have a limiter put on their car for the duration of the penalty points they incur.
That'd learn em! ;)
All men under the age of 25 would only be insured on a car with a limiter fitted.
WeAreRovers
05/08/2004, 2:27 PM
Split the thread, as going way off topic, even for off topic.
Typical ironfist authoritarian nonsense. ;)
Seriously though, I think going way off topic is one of the joys of t'internet just like ordinary conversation. I'm the acknowleged king of taking threads off topic on the Ultras MB and I'm not ashamed of it. Now where were we? ;)
KOH
Pete, if a driver can see that the roads are unsuitable for certain speeds then it is their duty to drive at a reduced speed.
We're all adults FFS!
Do we really have to have a garda standing in front of us with a speed gun in order for us to obey the speed limit?
If I had my way anyone caught speeding would have a limiter put on their car for the duration of the penalty points they incur.
That'd learn em! ;)
All men under the age of 25 would only be insured on a car with a limiter fitted.
So whats the Guard doing there in the first place? To simply catch people speeding, or to prevent accidents? If the former, then they should come out and fúcking say it rather than continue this pretence of it being to protect other road users.....
You're spending too much time in middle england Peader ;)
WeAreRovers
05/08/2004, 2:33 PM
Percy Bysse Shelley or John Keats...
Was Shelley the bloke out of the Buzzcocks? Definitely him so...
KOH
Typical ironfist authoritarian nonsense. ;)
Yeah, but by keeping it seperate I hope to prove that in this sample of the population, that the FF heads are right wingers. :)
btw I created the opening for you off topic ramblings WAR!
Peadar
05/08/2004, 2:43 PM
To simply catch people speeding, or to prevent accidents?
Surely the two go hand in hand?
Speeding is the primary cause of road deaths in Ireland.
Preventing speeding by catching the offenders should in turn help to prevent accidents?
My point is that people complain about the police force but the truth is that we fail to act in a responsible manner but don't want to accept the consequences. We prefer to pass the buck and lay the blame at someone else's door.
Surely the two go hand in hand?
Can tell you not a driver Peadar.
The Gardai in oirland will claim they choose the big straight roads cos they got more road presense which means people will slow down for the other roads. Reality is that there is almost never a speed check on single carraige roads which is where the accidents happen as its easier to sit at side of Motorway & pick poeple off 1/2 mile in the distance.
Likehood of getting caught & consequences of it is what stops people from braking most laws.
Surely the two go hand in hand?
Speeding is the primary cause of road deaths in Ireland.
Preventing speeding by catching the offenders should in turn help to prevent accidents?
No, it's all about speed on poor roads. Doing 90 on a motorway much less dangerous than doing 50 (let alone the 60mph limit) on most country roads.
Peadar
05/08/2004, 3:08 PM
No, it's all about speed on poor roads. Doing 90 on a motorway much less dangerous than doing 50 (let alone the 60mph limit) on most country roads.
Those roads are also dangerous for gardaí to be stationary on them waiting to catch criminals. It's the duty of parents to ensure that their kids are acting responsibly when out on the roads and it's the duty of us adults to ensure we ourselves act responsibly.
You've all come back with some answer being critical of the gardaí for not taking proper responsibility for your actions and the actions of other adults.
fosterdollar
05/08/2004, 3:29 PM
All men under the age of 25 would only be insured on a car with a limiter fitted.
We're all adults FFS!
evidently those of us under 25 aren't :rolleyes:
Peadar
05/08/2004, 3:35 PM
evidently those of us under 25 aren't :rolleyes:
Some less capable than others at behaving like one.
Read the statistics Magoo.
Statistically 17-24 year olds are 7.7 times more likely to be involved in a fatal or serious injury collision.
Source National Safety Council (http://www.nsc.ie/road_safety/issues.cfm)
fosterdollar
05/08/2004, 3:44 PM
The principle of insurance is to share the burden of accident costs. Age is not the only means by which you can rate a person's likely ability to drive. Don't give me that statistics rubbish. They can be taken up anyway you like. For instance, women are far more likely to be involved in low speed accidents and men in high speed ones. Do you much a speed minimiser in women's cars and a limiter in all men's. Sounds rediculous. Thats what it feels like to be under 25 paying inordinate amounts for insurance. Still haven't crashed (not that i would claim if i could at all help it) - four years on the road. The majority of my friends in the same age group... the vast majority ... have yet to make claims on insurance. I'm sure there are situations of lads in the same age who have all claimed. It's not your bloody age FFS. Giving people one shot at a reduced rate to see how they get on is surely worth a try. I'm so fcuking disillusioned with the lack of action against insurance comany cartels.
You've all come back with some answer being critical of the gardaí for not taking proper responsibility for your actions and the actions of other adults.
Agreed, in theory we shouldn't need a police service at all, however if we do have and need one should they be concentrating on preventing death and injury or clocking up the convictions. Should they be concentrating on doing people for dropping litter, or trying to solve murders and rapes?
fosterdollar
05/08/2004, 3:48 PM
Some less capable than others at behaving like one.
Read the statistics Magoo.
Source National Safety Council (http://www.nsc.ie/road_safety/issues.cfm)
98.4367% of statistics are made up anyway
Peadar
05/08/2004, 4:00 PM
Should they be concentrating on doing people for dropping litter?
We have litter wardens for that ;)
Most of us here would consider ourselves to be "good" people but the truth is that much of the police resources are tied up dealing with our indifferent approach to certain laws that we feel don't apply to us or aren't that important. I saw a man in Temple Bar last weekend, who was clearly intoxicated, trying to assault a doorman. When two members of the gardaí tried to restrain him he became so aggressive that they had to be assisted by two more officers and eventually a police van arrived to contain him.
Six members of the gardaí were involved because one adult was incapable of behaving responsibly. Anyone who has been a victim of serious crime could tell you a dozen different ways in which those resources could have been better utilised. Having been away on many football trips and especially more recently the Cork City FC European adventure I'm satisfied that most people are very well behaved and drink with a fair degree of responsibility but it only takes a few yobs like that guy in Temple Bar to waste a lot of garda resources.
98.4367% of statistics are made up anyway
It would be nice if the road death statistics weren't true but sadly they are.
And 6 guards doing people for speeding on the M4 on a Wednesday afternoon would be more effective patrolling country roads an 4am on Saturday night for people speeding, drink driving etc - but they'd rather get the easy convictions...
Peadar
05/08/2004, 4:11 PM
but they'd rather get the easy convictions...
I really don't think that's the reason.
If you wanted an "easy" life would you really join the force in the first place?
fosterdollar
05/08/2004, 4:20 PM
I really don't think that's the reason.
If you wanted an "easy" life would you really join the force in the first place?
whats so hard about being a cop. Most find it so easy they have one or two other jobs to boot.
whats so hard about being a cop. Most find it so easy they have one or two other jobs to boot.
Not to mention the hassle of being landlords on numerous houses. Tenants can be so much trouble.
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