Ward V Wilson

[mark12345]

Hate to say it lads, because he has been there throug thick and thin on the road to the Euro finals, but Stephen Ward is looking more and more shaky with the passing days. He was never a solid defender to begin with but his recent displays for Wolves and that today against United show him up as a real liability for club and country.

Wilson on the other hand is going from strength to strength with Stoke. He was brilliant today against Liverpool and plays generally at a much higher standards (defensively) than ward.

And while I'm handing out plaudits - full marks to Whelan today. I'm usually his biggest critic, but he was Stoke's best player at Anfield today.

[backstothewall]

Not a fair comparison imo. Ward is playing is a shambolic Wolves side stuck in a death spiral. It is simply impossible to look like a decent left back in that side at the minute. Maldini at his peak would be getting torn to bits.

I also don't see why it has to be Ward V Wilson. If you ask me the correct answer is Ward & Wilson. I doubt any other team going to the Euro's will only take 1 left back. In truth we don't have a single specialist left back to take, but Wilson and Ward can both do an adequate job there. Given the cover they also offer in other positions I think they should both go.

[SwanVsDalton]

I'd definitely take Wilson instead of Paul Green. As said above, should have a left back option beyond Ward and Darren O'Dea.

Didn't see the games today, but agree it's not entirely fair to compare like for like. Wolves are shambolic and, down to ten men against United, were always liable to take a thumping. I think Ward has his limitations but I like his willingness and his track record suggests an ability to improve game-after-game. He's pretty die hard and passionate as well, which is useful in tournament situations and contrasts with the perceived apathy of Wilson after his friendly no-show.

Wilson though looks like he's coming back into form, though wasn't here having a bad spell a couple of months back? Either way getting them on the training ground together would be the best way to go.

[mark12345]

Your point is well taken about the Wolves defence. No doubt it would be hard for the best defenders to look good with that bunch. But you still can't take away the fact that every time someone runs at Ward he is an open door. Wilson on the other hand offers a pretty decent obstacle when in a one on one situation. But having said that both should go to Poland, just Wilson ahead of Ward in starting eleven.

[Colbert Report]

Ward is a terrible player, Wilson is miles ahead of him but Ward will start because Trap likes him and Wilson probably won't even be in the squad because Trap doesn't like him. However, Trap knows a tiny bit more about football than me so I'll go with his opinions over mine...

[liamoo11]

think wilson is far more solid as a defender and is a fine passer of the ball. He is never going to be an overlaping type full back and not been naturally left footed he does not offer a lot in an attacking sense. He seems to me to be very much an o shea type full back who would look far better in midfield like oshea does at centre half. Ward is an excellent overlaping full back and has a sweet left foot in attacking positions and has the odd trick to beat a man but is woefully short defensively. Considering he played with bohs and wolves when he moved as a striker or a left winger that is hardly surprising. It amazes me that Trap picks him as he seems way too attacking for Traps liking! Even more so since Coleman is considered incapable of been a fullback despite the fact that he has played so much football with sligo and blackpool and bits with everton there. Traps polar thinking on Ward and Coleman is hard to understand. Stll its great to be discussing this as we head to a tournament happy days

[SwanVsDalton]

Even more so since Coleman is considered incapable of been a fullback despite the fact that he has played so much football with sligo and blackpool and bits with everton there. Traps polar thinking on Ward and Coleman is hard to understand. Stll its great to be discussing this as we head to a tournament happy days

In fairness, hasn't Trap always said he's considered Coleman more a full back? Hasn't played him there much mind you...

[drummerboy]

In fairness to Ward, Valentia is the best in his position in the PL and has been terrifying most full backs he has played against this season.

[Colbert Report]

Ward has been terrible all season though.

[Charlie Darwin]

So has every other Wolves player. Any time he's played for Ireland, he's been more than able to up his game to match the higher standard of players around him, which suggests there are other reasons for his poor performances.

[Colbert Report]

I watch almost every Wolves match and Ward is far and away their worst player, and that's saying something. He might be able to do a job as a striker but he's a terrible, terrible defender. Slow, poor positional sense and worst of all, lazy lazy lazy. I don't think I've ever seen a lazier player at the Premier League level.

[Charlie Darwin]

Probably because you spend all your time watching Stephen Ward.

[Colbert Report]

How often do you watch Wolves? Can you tell me one match where his rating would be higher than a five out of ten?

[Charlie Darwin]

I've seen them a couple of times this year. He was solid as a rock against Arsenal. Other times he's been shaky but he generally gets little help from his winger (except on the rare occasion Hunt plays in front of him) and the centre halves don't do much either. Like I said, for Ireland he's much better and offers a lot going forward.

[SwanVsDalton]

I think Wolves currently have the one of the Premier League's worst ever defences, particularly their centre backs. They're awful and have been for ages. Ward doesn't do himself favours at times but it's hard to judge when he's part of such a dreadful unit.

Certainly don't think he's lazy by the way, never seems that way when I see him play.

[Crosby87]

I thought this thread was going to be about a lawsuit.

[Carrigaline]

I have never been a fan of Ward but his perfromances this season and against the Czech Republic (Flop of the match according to goal.com - http://www.goal.com/en-ie/match/77116/republic-of-ireland-vs-czech-republic/player-ratings) suggest to me that Stephen Ward should not be going to Poland at all. People need to remember, we're playing Spain, Italy and the Croatia this Summer. If Ward is going to struggle against the Czech Republic, I really do fear for him against even superior opposition, because he'll be doing much more defending than attacking.

My first choice back 4 would be.

O'Shea - LB
Dunne - CB
St. Ledger - CB
Kelly (a player who has been cracking this season but will get no plaudits because he's getting on) - RB

As back up, I would take O'Dea, Foley and Wilson.

Don't get me wrong though. No matter who we pick (and that goes for the rest of the squad too), I think we're going lose two games and pick up one point in the group stages this Summer. The difference between Ward and O'Shea could be a narrow loss to being destroyed.

[geysir]

I have never been a fan of Ward but his perfromances this season and against the Czech Republic (Flop of the match according to goal.com - http://www.goal.com/en-ie/match/77116/republic-of-ireland-vs-czech-republic/player-ratings) suggest to me that Stephen Ward should not be going to Poland at all.

That goal com review of Ward is farcical
Of all the back 4, he had the least culpability for Baros' goal.
I do admit though, Ward was on the pitch when Baros scored.

[Charlie Darwin]

If we're basing our opinions on goal.com rankings we should probably all just give up and support Spain.

[tetsujin1979]

quoting goal.com for anything is a banning offence on some forums

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not happy about Ward either and think he's a big risk against the type of opposition we're playing. I'd prefer Carrigaline's back 4 too.

[Carrigaline]

It echoes my own opinion - he was the worst player on the pitch that night and goal.com got it right.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think anyone's arguing that he's Ashley Cole in his prime, but he's a good player and his introduction to the team has coincided with a marked improvement in our defensive record. His is a case - not unlike St Ledger the past couple of years - where his poor form for his club has belied his thriving at international level.

[geysir]

I wouldn't argue that he's Ashley Cole in his post prime. I'd say Ward was definitely told not to get too far forward against the Czechs
It's not a big deal for me whether it's Ward or Wilson. And the only form I'd seriously consider about Ward are his games for us. I don't know why Trap hasn't recalled Wilson to the squad. I presume one reason is that he's going for 7 back four players for the Finals squad but there's no outstanding football ability reason. Wilson strokes the ball forward with greater accuracy and has a good composure. When you think about it, that mistaken identity retraction was a bit too weird to make any sense, who else could Trap have been referring to, Best?

[AlaskaFox]

I think Ward's failings also mean that McGeady has to do a lot of extra work, and as a result isn't as effective as he should be - like Duff on the right, who is helped by O'Shea - McGeady often has to track back to help out, leaving him playing deeper than he should be. I'd have O'Shea left and Kelly right too.

[geysir]

Have you not observed Duff tracking back? Is McGeady any more preoccupied with defensive duties than Duff?

How many full backs do we have that can deal with a tricky winger on their own? How many times have Duff and McGeady been left with only one defender to deal with?
Usually in that situation, once bitten by either McGeady or Duff, the opposition makes sure to close the threat with sufficient numbers.
Our problem isn't so much having Ward at LB, it's with getting the ball cleanly to the feet of McGeady/Duff and supporting them. Usually Ward needs no encouragement to get forward, however in the Czech game he played a more restrained role.

[AlaskaFox]

Have you not observed Duff tracking back? Is McGeady any more preoccupied with defensive duties than Duff?

I have, but just that he doesn't have to stay back as much as McGeady because O'Shea is more secure - and delivers the ball out of defence better. Kilbane was much better than Ward at feeding the left winger too.

[Murfinator]

Ward has been terrible all season though.

He's been terrible every season. But unlike Wilson he turns up when requested.

[geysir]

I have just turned on the Stoke v Spurs game. Inside 2 minutes, 1 atrocious cross by Wilson on 44 minutes allowing Spurs to break away and one non tackle on 45 mins.

I don't know if I have the nerves to watch the 2nd half. Maybe he had a good first 43 minutes?

[geysir]

I have, but just that he doesn't have to stay back as much as McGeady because O'Shea is more secure - and delivers the ball out of defence better. Kilbane was much better than Ward at feeding the left winger too.
One thing is for sure, neither O'Shea nor Ward did their full back duty of feeding the wingers with any remarkable distinction in the last game.

[AlaskaFox]

One thing is for sure, neither O'Shea nor Ward did their full back duty of feeding the wingers with any remarkable distinction in the last game.

Very true unfortunately. I'd like to see Kelly get a run-out against Bosnia or Hungary to see if he can offer something better.

[geysir]

A mixed 2nd half for Wilson, he got skinned, waltzed around and bypassed, all inside the first 5 minutes, then later on he hit 3 lovely long balls planted right onto Crouch's head.

He made a crunching tackle on Walker, studs uppish, won the ball but the trailing leg floored Walker, not too dissimilar to what Hunt got a red card for against the Czechs. The ref here didn't blink an eye.

[Paddy the Dog]

quoting goal.com for anything is a banning offence on some forums

Dunno what you're talking about tets, goal.com always talk perfect sense (http://www.goal.com/en/news/1717/editorial/2012/03/01/2931779/ireland-the-strongest-england-the-weakest-the-state-of-health-of-) ;-)

I was at Craven Cottage last month for Fulham v Stoke and saw Wilson's performance as unremarkable. I agree Ward has looked somewhat shaky on occasions from watching him on Match of the Day.

An interesting debate but somewhat futile; does anybody really think Trap will call Wilson up now? I would be hugely surprised.

[paul_oshea]

Ward is awful anybody who has watched him over the last 2 seasons for wolves and cant see that knows nothing about football.

You can use that argument about each player individually at wolves, and try to make a claim for each one and defend each one, but collectively they are all making mistakes and conceding a huge amount of goals.

Id literally have anyone ahead of him.

[shakermaker1982]

I just want a full back who can stop crosses, gets goal side when defending and doesn't just follow the ball like an 8 year old but will instead track runners if required.

Unfortunately Ward fails in every department and is a liability. He isn't a defender so I can understand why he struggles but I fear the Trap will persist.

[geysir]

I just want a full back who can stop crosses, gets goal side when defending and doesn't just follow the ball like an 8 year old but will instead track runners if required.That rules out Wilson then, based on last night's game. Of all our full back options he looks the easiest target for a winger to get past.
Over 50 minutes of football, one on ones, he was left stranded 4 out of 4 times. Although Spurs are more a left sided team - worked the other flank most of the time.

[shakermaker1982]

That rules out Wilson then, based on last night's game. Of all our full back options he looks the easiest target for a winger to get past.
Over 50 minutes of football, one on ones, he was left stranded 4 out of 4 times. Although Spurs are more a left sided team - worked the other flank most of the time.

I'd be in the put 'O'Shea' at LB club. Wilson looks like a CB to me but I admit I've seen very little of Stoke this season bar highlights (thank God) so couldn't say how well he has done at LB.

I don't want to be too greedy, I just want our defenders to do the basics well because. We can leave the bombing forward to Alves and Lahm.

[Murfinator]

I'd take all of Clark, Kilbane, Harte, JOS, Kelly and O'Dea over Ward or Wilson at LB personally. I'd probably switch Stephen Hunt there sooner than I'd play Ward too. Wilson is a mercenary with no commitment to Ireland and little better then Stephen Ireland other than he has the cop on to fake injury rather than granny deaths when he gets a call up to an undesirable game or bench slot. He shouldn't even be a consideration amongst fans because he certainly won't with trap.

On what might actually happen Wards positioning is awful, his tackling is awful and his support play is ok to decent. He's the worst possible option and was the worst player I'd ever seen at LB against Russia away and whatever the previous qualifier was in that match week too. His club form is bizarre since he's appeared consistently poor for Wolves yet has stayed in favour there regardless. I'd imagine next season regardless of which league they're in the squad overhaul will begin with replacing him.
Our options at LB are unfortunately limited and we've no actual proper left back. Kelly is awkward on that side and so is JOS these days too apparently, Clark/O'Dea are converted fullbacks which is never ideal. Harte can defend about as well as Ward and Kilbane while the most positionally and defensively adept will get done for pace.
Its the weakest area of our team and to go to area for any team to target regardless of who we put there.

[Charlie Darwin]

If Wilson was a mercenary he'd have gone back to the north, or just retired from international football.

[geysir]

Our defensive record of fatal mistakes from the LB zone has really improved since Ward came along, not to mention the goal scoring ratio to games played, breaking the all time LB record.

I think we all know and stoically accept certain limitations in ability, eg. Josh getting his foot onto a loose ball in the box, a metre out from an empty goal, is not a sure thing.

[Murfinator]

If Wilson was a mercenary he'd have gone back to the north, or just retired from international football.

Why would he retire when through repeated no-shows he just stops getting picked? All of the perks of not having to train and travel to sit on a bench in macedonia and none of the aggro from fans for not representing his country. The Irish public take up arms if someone says they don't want to play for us, but are happy to accept the fellow with a groin strain on every international occasion that magically goes away a few days later for stoke.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's not magic, it's the standard recovery period from a slight strain.

[tricky_colour]

In the last 7 internationals Ward has played we have conceded just 2 goals -a pretty good stat.