'Righteous fanaticism of a LOI fan' - Brian O'Connor in the Irish Times

[SwanVsDalton]

Sorry mods, couldn't see a thread for this but feel free to move it.

Brian O'Connor in the Irish Times unleashes WUMticle (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0227/1224312438576.html) aimed at the preachy sensitivity of LOI fans. Choice paragraphs:


There continues, however, to be a belief among the converted that if floating sports fans just give the League of Ireland a chance, then a return to the halcyon days is still possible. But that is to ignore certain inconvertible realities.

Does there?


No youngster coming up through the grades is dreaming of togging out for Rovers or St Pat’s. The fantasy revolves around getting away, to the glamour and financial beano that is the Premiership and remarkably even the leagues below it.

But then the argument goes, what about Kevin Doyle and Shane Long playing for Cork City? Yes, and first chance they got they were gone. Stephen Hunt’s career looked to be heading nowhere when he was let go by Crystal Palace. Briefly he considered coming home and playing in the League of Ireland but decided Brentford was a better option. That’s Brentford, folks.

Has even the most deluded LOI fan ever thought this?

Definitely playing into the writer's hands by not simply ignoring this guff, but hey - happy Monday everyone!

[freewheel30]

Saw it myself, was thinking about throwing it into that "Barstool facepalm" thread.

Guy seems to be feeling somehow threatened / annoyed by the success of the ex-LOI players.

Most eagerly awaited season kick-off for a long time and a negative article like this pops up? Strange.

[Straightstory]

Says a lot about the sheer hatred that the Irish Times (and to be fair, most of the media - particularly the press - in this country) has for Irish football fans. I don't know who Brian O'Connor is. Anyone know anything about him? You'd have to question the motivation of the editor who agreed to put it in the paper. Pretty disgraceful, but you don't really expect anything else.

[WoodquayBoy]

I remember at the start of last year, the Irish Times ran the usual "who do you think will win xxx" covering, GAA rugby, soccer, and put the questions to people from a variety of sports. One question was "Who will win the Airtricity Legaue Premier Division" [note - not Premier League, Brian, Premier Division - if you are going to have a pathetic dig, at least get the name right]. Most people went for Shams, O'Connor's response was "who cares". Sad little man.

[MagicMon]

Read the article, wished I hadn't given it the webpage hit. It doesn't even appear to have any point beyond 'Rofl, I bet all the LOI fans give me loads of abuse for this'.

[total hoofball]

Hi Brian, I'm sure you're lurking, but cool trolling anyway.

What's a 'LOI fan' anyway? Who supports a league over a football club?

[Mr A]

There is a certain amount of truth in what he says, despite the fact he comes across as a bit of a plonker, especially his conclusion:


Maybe the answer is for League of Ireland fans to stop defining themselves, and what they love, by what they purport to despise.

LOI fans do tend to be very sensitive and there is often an unfortunate tendency to abuse people into supporting the league rather than trying to convince them. I've probably been guilty of it myself. It's a good laugh sometimes in fairness. But totally, totally ineffective in terms of making it more likely that extra people will come to LOI games.

Of course, writing off all LOI people at the stroke of a pen is just plain stupid (or mischievous if you want to be kind) but in fairness he does insult a bunch of other sports as well.

[CuanaD]

Not a lot I could really take umbridge with there - except these 3 phrases:
"certain inconvertible realities."
"forever inextricably linked"
"task doomed to failure."

Nothing lasts forever - it could take many years/decades/more & a heck of a lot of hard work, but change is always possible & we (the LOI as a whole) do still seem to be slowly moving in the right direction.

[freewheel30]

There is a certain amount of truth in what he says

There's definitely a lot of truth in what he says, it's just that some truths demand / deserve to be told and others don't - there isn't any pressing reason or need for the fellow to point these facts out at this moment in time, unless he just intended to knock the league down a peg or two at a time when there's a good feeling around many of the clubs within the league.

[redobit]

Couldnt give a toss about these small minded 'football' fans. Ive given up trying to convince bar-stoolers. Kids are the future of our clubs and we need to get them involved before they are brainwashed.

[CSFShels]

What a ****.

[sadloserkid]

At least he concedes that our fanaticism is righteous... though it's more likely that he doesn't really understand what the word means... :disdain: :)

[Dodge]

What forums like this prove is there is no uniform LOI fan thought.

Most of I'd aren't even fans of the LOI but rather fans of Irish football clubs

And most of them have a rooting interest in foreign football too

It's a BS piece designed to attract attention (as the last line clearly shows)

Enjoy the racing Brian

[A N Mouse]

From what little i can gather that column he writes is some kind of grumpy old man spiel were he's contrary about everything. Featured in a thread here before after mentioning loi in article about last year's cl final.

As such its not a bad piece. He's stuck between a rock and a hard place in that its popular to knock the loi, but we're - to paraphrase - "a bunch of proselytising whingers".

He does make some valid points (for us), but also offers up the same tired old tropes - easily digestible by the barstoolers.

I give it 3 out of 5, a good first effort and I look forward to his next column devoted to loi.

[SwanVsDalton]

Even if he makes a decent point or two, he completely undermines it by suggest EVERY fan of domestic football expects players to treat the league like it should be the height of their ambition. I mean that's one of the stupidest things I've ever read, and there's a couple of other things in the article that run it close.

Nearly all the fleshed out arguments he makes are a thundering load of nonsense. And even as a wind-up write-up, where the points don't have to matter, it is really, really lame.

[the 12 th man]

As Dodge alluded to,the guy is a horse racing journalist who's on the wind up,

http://www.hachette.ie/AuthorDetails.aspx?Id=33861



Brian O'Connor is an award-winning journalist who has worked on various national newspapers such as Sunday Tribune, Irish Times and the London Times. He was racing correspondent with the Irish Press for four years and has been racing correspondent with the Irish Times since 1997.

[White Horse]

He gets some things right in his article; the passion and identity for example.

However, he seems to think that passion should only exist at the pinnacle of sport. No need for the likes of Crewe or Charlton, when there is Manchester United or Chelsea.

Which is more ridiculous, a young lad from Bray with Bray tattooed on his arm or the same lad with a city in northern England tattoed on his arm. To LOI fans the answer is clear, but not to Mr O'Connor apparently.

[Dalymountrower]

I remember at the start of last year, the Irish Times ran the usual "who do you think will win xxx" covering, GAA rugby, soccer, and put the questions to people from a variety of sports. One question was "Who will win the Airtricity Legaue Premier Division" [note - not Premier League, Brian, Premier Division - if you are going to have a pathetic dig, at least get the name right]. Most people went for Shams, O'Connor's response was "who cares". Sad little man.

Not sure if you are referring to the same article , but I remember 3 years ago that the IT ran a similar/same poll. Every respondent from sportspeople to features writers gave an opinion on possible winners in all major sports , (most opted for Bohs in that year). Step forward Brian O`Connor with his "who cares" answer. He couldn`t have given this side-splitting reply twice in successive years could he?
Cant think what happened this guy to make him so bitter? Run over by a taxi driven by Scully? Got the wrong post from Tommy Kelly, Nutsy didn`t wash his office windows to the required sparkle? Geoghegan robbed his mobile? Nick Leeson invested his savings?

[John83]

As Dodge alluded to,the guy is a horse racing journalist who's on the wind up...
In that case, I feel a proprotionate and reasonable response is indicated.
http://images.wikia.com/godfather/images/3/3a/Woltz_horse_head.png

[Guinney]

Pointless article, I'm not sure if he even fully knows what he is trying to say.

Would agree with a previous poster, it's kids clubs need to targeting to attend games and become fans of the future. The majority of the barstoolers will never bother with the League and dismiss it out of hand. There is the odd one here and there that you could possibly convince to come to matches and if you achieve this congratulations.

I'm actually sick and tired of people asking me 'who do you support?' and when I reply 'Dundalk', they say no what 'proper' team do you support.

[PartySaint]

Pointless article, I'm not sure if he even fully knows what he is trying to say.

Would agree with a previous poster, it's kids clubs need to targeting to attend games and become fans of the future. The majority of the barstoolers will never bother with the League and dismiss it out of hand. There is the odd one here and there that you could possibly convince to come to matches and if you achieve this congratulations.

I'm actually sick and tired of people asking me 'who do you support?' and when I reply 'Dundalk', they say no what 'proper' team do you support.

I generally find most people who support a EPL team are open to the idea of at least going to one LOI game and seeing what it is like. You usually have to work on them but when they see the passion you have for you're team they give it a shot. I have convinced 6 people in the off season to come to one or more of Pats first few games this season and am hoping to get 1 0r 2 more down

Now there is a few who totally dismiss it but I tend not to bother talk football with them to try get them to games

[Dunny]

Brian, from an LOI fan, blow it out yer arse ya hack.

[El-Pietro]

He gets some things right in his article; the passion and identity for example.

However, he seems to think that passion should only exist at the pinnacle of sport. No need for the likes of Crewe or Charlton, when there is Manchester United or Chelsea.

Which is more ridiculous, a young lad from Bray with Bray tattooed on his arm or the same lad with a city in northern England tattoed on his arm. To LOI fans the answer is clear, but not to Mr O'Connor apparently.
I was at a Charlton game on Saturday - 26,500 or so at a 3rd division game (it helped that they sold all tickets for £5)

[Stuttgart88]

The most annoying thing about that article was the sheer pointlessness of it. It seems that after Matt Williams last week, The Irish Times on a Monday is the place for unsolicited pointless digs at Irish football.

So what if Brentford can afford to offer pro footballers a better living than an Irish club? A basic lesson in economics explains that.

What was the need for the tattoo and security firm references? Class prejudice again I reckon, sanctioned by the sports editor. Embarrasing really.

[Mr A]

I say we get in contact with him posing as a security firm, then crucify him while using a blow torch on his nether regions and dripping acid on to his head.

That will teach him to call us fanatics.

[Jofspring]

It's actually articles like this which make LOI fans hate the die support of English teams even more if you ask me.

Instead of pointing out that their are many LOI fans that support both he seems intent on pointing out a split and that basically the LOI is a mickey mouse league and we should all just support the top teams in England because its totally like the bestest ever.

If we really want to support the best league around then maybe it should be suggested to him that all the fans of English teams and LOI teams should just shift allegiance to Spanish league teams because "Why would any player dream of making it in an English team when he could make it at one of the top two teams in world football currently at Barcelona or Real Madrid?

[outspoken]

Pointless article, I'm not sure if he even fully knows what he is trying to say.

I'm actually sick and tired of people asking me 'who do you support?' and when I reply 'Dundalk', they say no what 'proper' team do you support.

Oh so its not just longford barstoolers that say that haha its so annoying, the other response is eh but like what english club? my response is always so what the fai cup isnt a proper trophy, they get lost then :)

[born2bwild]

What a pointless waste of ink.

I hope for his sake 'neglible' 'inconvertible' are typos.

[Sonny]

Just another barstooler desperately searching for some intellectual justification for their deviance, and another hack journo desperately searching for an audience. Nothing to see here.

[Charlie Darwin]

What a pointless waste of ink.

I hope for his sake 'neglible' 'inconvertible' are typos.
The online articles usually go up with grammatical mistakes and typos intact. It's always interesting to see which journalists turn in proofed copy and which don't have a clue. Guess which camp Mr. O'Connor falls into...

[A N Mouse]

Four tickets for the Brandywell to anyone linking to an article
a) published this week in a national paper
b) of similar length
c) about the League of Ireland
d) by someone not normally associated with the league
e) advocating going to see a game.

[Finlay Harp]

Four tickets for the Brandywell to anyone linking to an article
a) published this week in a national paper
b) of similar length
c) about the League of Ireland
d) by someone not normally associated with the league
e) advocating going to see a game.

That sounds like a punishment!

[gormacha]

Class prejudice again I reckon, sanctioned by the sports editor. Embarrasing really.

Bingo.

Most pertinent comment I've read on this all day.

[cheifo]

I say we get in contact with him posing as a security firm, then crucify him while using a blow torch on his nether regions and dripping acid on to his head.

That will teach him to call us fanatics.

Cue ritual burnings of the IT with chants of death to the infidel outside league of Ireland grounds this week. Will make great TV and generate much needed publicity for the league.:cool:

[sheao]

That guy probably wrote that from the comfort of his armchair as it is clear his footballing experience is confined to there.
Armchair supporters talking making a pointless attempt to have a dig at the league.

[superfrank]

I like how he used Stephen Hunt as an example of a player who was released by his youth club then stayed in England with a lower-league team, while ignoring a player like Keith Fahey who, arguably, had a more illustrious youth career in England (how much did Villa pay Arsenal for him?) before returning here (to the LSL, iirc) to make his name and eventually working his way into the national side.

[northwestexile]

While I agree with some of the points it's the negative slant on the article that I take issue with. Like a lot of the national newspapers the majority of news articles related to football in Ireland is portrayed in a negative way from the national team down. He makes out that for players who didn't make it in England coming back to the LOI is a failure. It could quite easily be turned around and say that players are now coming back to the LOI as a viable option and a way of playing in a competitive league with the prospect of being signed again when they have matured a bit more and are more likely to handle the pressure.

In the past players came back and were lost to the game. Anthony Tohill got released by Man Utd and Trevor Gilles got let go by Arsenal but yet they are seen as having been hugely successful (and rightly so) but yet they were lost to football. In a few years a player like Stephen Hunt might look to come back to an Irish team rather than go to the lower leagues.

[Spudulika]

Guys, he's writing for the IT, which means he's a wannabe writer, who isn't good enough to get a job on RTE, who is too crapscared of taking the chance to go to a proper newspaper, and who's stuck in Ireland typing one handed while he fiddles with himself watching re-runs of Bosco on tv. He ruins valid points (a la George Hook) by being a clown and looking for readership. I don't read the IT as there is nothing to it.

[geezer]

This evening at Lansdowne many Galway United fans will attend to both celebrate our former Goalkeeper David fordes appearance and also of course remember Chick Deacy.

Sadly the whisper in high echolons of football this morning was that GUST were going to "protest" . GUST have purchased international tickets for years many years when the International team qualified for nothing. The money was accepted willingly and never has there been a protest, any form of trouble or even hint of trouble.

GUST members will be in Lansdowne this evening to celebrate Davids appearance, remember Chick and support our boys in green.

We would ask senior whisperers in high positions who should no better and put the head of security in the fai on "notice" about some protest and who read this forum to refrain from continuously attacking, damaging the reputation of the very genuine Galway United supporters that have put their hands in their pockets at LOI level, Junior, Juvenile and International levels


Cmon the boys in Green

[A face]

To be fair i dont think anyone thinks this guy has come up with a new angle or opinion, its just rehashed stuff we've seen loads of times before. Its boring and doesn't captivate the readership, either LOI fans or otherwise.

Next !!!!

[Jinxy]

While I agree with some of the points it's the negative slant on the article that I take issue with. Like a lot of the national newspapers the majority of news articles related to football in Ireland is portrayed in a negative way from the national team down. He makes out that for players who didn't make it in England coming back to the LOI is a failure. It could quite easily be turned around and say that players are now coming back to the LOI as a viable option and a way of playing in a competitive league with the prospect of being signed again when they have matured a bit more and are more likely to handle the pressure.

In the past players came back and were lost to the game. Anthony Tohill got released by Man Utd and Trevor Gilles got let go by Arsenal but yet they are seen as having been hugely successful (and rightly so) but yet they were lost to football. In a few years a player like Stephen Hunt might look to come back to an Irish team rather than go to the lower leagues.

It was Graham Geraghty.
I thought himself and Tohill just had trials though?

[Dodge]

YEp, definitely just trials. Like 100s of other lads

[SwanVsDalton]

Tohill had a season at the Brandywell. Wasn't cut out for anything other than filling in as goalie. He wasn't a loss to football, certainly didn't miss his true calling anyway.

Though I do agree with the general point about the LOI now being a viable place for players to come. As you say, players now returning have a legitimate chance of making it back over (McCourt, Fahey, Lafferty just a few examples). And that's not to mention players like Kerrea Gilbert coming over too.

[peadar1987]

I don't think it's too much of a step now for more players to decide to play some of the end of their career in Ireland. If, say, Richard Dunne or Damien Duff were to play maybe two seasons a la David Kelly, I think it would really boost the profile of the league. I know there'd be a problem with wage demands, but surely there are a few players out there clever enough to realise that they already have plenty of money, and being one of the people who helped popularise the League of Ireland is something money can't buy? [/starry-eyed naivety]

[John83]

I don't think it's too much of a step now for more players to decide to play some of the end of their career in Ireland. If, say, Richard Dunne or Damien Duff were to play maybe two seasons a la David Kelly, I think it would really boost the profile of the league. I know there'd be a problem with wage demands, but surely there are a few players out there clever enough to realise that they already have plenty of money, and being one of the people who helped popularise the League of Ireland is something money can't buy? [/starry-eyed naivety]
You can never have too much money at 35 - who knows what'll be left in 40 years? And I know I'd be as happy to play for 200k a week in Saudi Arabia for a season as to get kicked about by Robbie Benson or Stephen Hurley.